The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[ACO]

They stripped if of the honoury titles he had as a member of the RF not those he worked himself for. I don't see an issue with that. He agreed (for whatever reasons) to no longer serve the country officially thus the official roles went with that.

I see. Just the honorary ones. I also have no issue with that. He made his choice.

 

[Denville]

I see. Just the honorary ones. I also have no issue with that. He made his choice.

He was probably made to do it. Harry does care for his military work and Im sure it was painful to him to have to give up the titles. But he has chosen to be out of the RF and the queen clearly felt it was best to remove them from him...

 

[soapstar]

A number of comments have been deleted. Let’s get back to discussing Harry and Meghan’s decision to leave royal life.

 

[Erin9]

For me, the saddest part of this ordeal was seeing Philip being driven away from Sandringham minutes before Harry's arrival. If you want an image that sums up the human factor in all this, that is it in a nutshell.



Given the very close eye that was being kept on the comings and goings at Sandringham, and on the movements of every member of the family, there is next to no chance Harry and Philip met at another time without it being commented on.



I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see any other probable explanation than that Philip would rather take the very real risk of never seeing his grandson again than see him under these circumstances. With all the statements being released, to me this one is the most loud and clear.

I hadn’t thought about it quite that way, but that is quite sad if he never saw Philip at all.

 

[King of the Jungle]

After Philip had served loyally as Captain General Royal Marines for 64 years I imagine he could have felt that he, himself, had made a poor decision in trusting Harry with the role..
Harry asked to back away from royal responsibilities. It left no option to continue one of the most senior royal appointments with the Marines.

It is sad that faith in family members might have been eroded along with day to day interactions and communications.

Love won't be lost but there is a loss never-the-less.

 

[Betsypaige]

I hadn’t thought about it quite that way, but that is quite sad if he never saw Philip at all.

Even though Harry and Meghan are happy, there's a deep sadness that lingers, and I don't think it will ever go away......

 

[_Heather_]

I wouldn't blame Beatrice, after what her own father must have put her through, if she didn't want them there. I mean it is her day, not a day to be overshadowed.

I agree. But, however she may feel personally, I see her as a people pleaser who will want to keep everyone happy so I expect they'll be invited. However, just because they're invited doesn't mean they'll show up and frankly, I don't think they will. And if they do, I expect there'll be all sorts of headlines about their drama overshadowing Beatrice and her day, especially after all of this appears to have had some bearing on when her wedding date could be announced. Then you factor in the drama and stir that resulted from the "announcing her pregnancy at Eugenie's wedding" and "stealing Eugenie's thunder" as well as the "Beatrice announced her engagement during their tour to get back at them for stealing Eugenie's thunder" and it's all just a perfect storm. To be perfectly honest I think they'll be invited but I think it would be better for everyone concerned if they didn't show.

 

[duchessrachel]

Thought pulled out of left field in a galaxy far, far, away. How much of this "new path to forge" as far as their foundation was formed by listening to their PR manager they hired last March who is a) An American, b) a former senior adviser to Hilary Clinton and c) adviser to Hilary Clinton in her 2016 run for the presidency of the US? Is the Clinton Foundation a working model they used for the Sussex Royal Foundation?

Perhaps things may have turned out completely different if they had hired someone to advise them that knew and understood just how the monarchy and the "Firm" in the UK works? And also how the UK media works? And who also knew and could advise Harry and Meghan towards workable solutions to their problems without going all out "American capitalism"?

Just points I'm pondering here. Keeps the grey matter active.

This make me think that truly no one sat Meghan down and explained to her exactly how the Monarchy works. It should have been made clear to her, by Harry, what could and could not be done. Then again, he (or someone else) may have told her and she just really did not believe it until she started to live it. I found a transcript of their engagement interview and there is very telling statement in it below:

Interviewer: But do you have that sense of responsibility Prince Harry, for what you thought you were asking Meghan to do?
Prince Harry: Of course. That sense of responsibility was was essentially from day one or maybe a couple of months in, when I sort of realized actually, this is you know, I feel I know that I'm in love with this girl. And I hope that she is in love with me. We still have to sit down and I still, you know, I still have to have some pretty frank conversations with her to say you know what you're letting yourself in for it is it is it's a big it's a big deal and it's you know it's not it's not it's not easy for anybody. But I know that at the end of the day, she chooses me and I choose her. And therefore you know whatever whatever we have to tackle together or individually, will always be us together as a team. So I think, I think she's capable.

I bolded a statement in Prince Harry's response to the Interviewer saying they still needed to have some pretty frank conversations to let her know what she was getting herself into . I am wondering if they ever had them.

Well, this could just go the other way round.
Any "warnings" from their Royal Highnesses will probabely be noted with a little smile.

the "Royal Highnesses" will be noted with a little smile too.

 

[Leopoldine]

I think it’s unfortunate Meghan and Harry couldn’t have met maybe five years sooner because, to me, the stage of life Meghan was at when Harry came into her life dictated the pace of a lot of things surrounding their relationship. She was an actress in her mid 30s when she met Harry. Even very talented and well known actresses have spoken about how difficult it is for women in show business to find work after 40. Meghan’s acting wasn’t earthshaking and she didn’t have major connections in the business, so Suits was likely going to be the high point of her career. Equally as important, she was a woman in her mid 30s who, (I’m guessing based on the existence of Archie), wanted children.

So, that’s where she’s at when, out of the blue, Harry comes into her life offering solutions to her two most immediate problems - career and children. I’m not surprised she didn’t want to spend too much time digging deeper into what her life was going to look like as a royal given how appealing the superficial package must have looked. She didn’t have the luxury of time, and, as I’ve said before, Harry didn’t do the responsible thing and insist on a pre-marriage period of exposure to life in the UK and to the BRF and everything that goes with them.

So, in short order - fast marriage, baby ASAP, lots of big ideas about what kind of work she was going to do, and then a quick smash into the wall of reality in the form of the restrictions of British royal life and the ruthless British press.

I totally agree with those who think the couple could have given royal life more of a chance. I mean, two years is nothing given all the major life changes they went through. But I think for things to have really worked they would have had to agree to change their strategy to fit with the broader goals of the royal family. If they weren’t willing to do that then I think getting out fairly quickly was best for Harry and Meghan, as well as the institution itself.

A very thoughtful assessment.

I am interested to see how Harry is going to "flourish" now that he has severed so many ties to The Crown. In practical terms, is he going to rent office space in the closest metropolitan area and head there a few days a week and sit at a desk to weigh showbiz offers? A "Miss Baxter, hold my calls." type of situation?

I suppose his biggest worry is money and will be for the rest of his life, just like King Edward VIII.

 

[Pranter]

The Duke of Windsor (formerly King Edward VIII) did not have to worry about money the rest of his life...he had plenty of it.


LaRae

 

[Leopoldine]

The Duke of Windsor (formerly King Edward VIII) did not have to worry about money the rest of his life...he had plenty of it.


LaRae

The point is, he didn't think so. He badgered King George VI and his daughter about it.

This make me think that truly no one sat Meghan down and explained to her exactly how the Monarchy works. It should have been made clear to her, by Harry, what could and could not be done.

I think people did, but it might have been dismissed by Meghan as boilerplate small print by lowly non-woke civil service functionaries.

She definitely didn't read Bagehot or Erskine May.

And, Harry might not have been the best person to explain the role. If you could have time-travelled Tommy Lascelles into a hotel room with Meghan and let them go at it, a caged match sort of thing, she would come out of that knowing her new job or banished.

 

[Betsypaige]

This might sound silly or even stupid, but maybe the BRF can come up with some suggested guidelines that might ease the transition for a future potential Royal newcomer...kind of like a handbook. Maybe this could also talk about the kind of life a working Royal leads, what is expected of a working Royal, etc.... There could even be a primer of sorts in how to handle the media.... This way there’s no confusion. This would be in addition to the personal discussions between the interested parties..

 

[Zaira]

This make me think that truly no one sat Meghan down and explained to her exactly how the Monarchy works. It should have been made clear to her, by Harry, what could and could not be done. Then again, he (or someone else) may have told her and she just really did not believe it until she started to live it. I found a transcript of their engagement interview and there is very telling statement in it below:

Interviewer: But do you have that sense of responsibility Prince Harry, for what you thought you were asking Meghan to do?
Prince Harry: Of course. That sense of responsibility was was essentially from day one or maybe a couple of months in, when I sort of realized actually, this is you know, I feel I know that I'm in love with this girl. And I hope that she is in love with me. We still have to sit down and I still, you know, I still have to have some pretty frank conversations with her to say you know what you're letting yourself in for it is it is it's a big it's a big deal and it's you know it's not it's not it's not easy for anybody. But I know that at the end of the day, she chooses me and I choose her. And therefore you know whatever whatever we have to tackle together or individually, will always be us together as a team. So I think, I think she's capable.

I bolded a statement in Prince Harry's response to the Interviewer saying they still needed to have some pretty frank conversations to let her know what she was getting herself into . I am wondering if they ever had them.

I believe he was actually talking about his thought process in the early days of their relationship not about what he still needed to do at the time of the interview when reading this section in the full context.

 

[QueenMathilde]

Harry renounced, so he was not stripped of his military honors, he chose this path. There are no military officers "Part time". He is an adult and he should stop reading his thoughts to gain public sympathy. "Ad nauseam". If they want a private life why do they continue speaking in public? Keep your thoughts to yourself. You are and adult and so is Meghan.
They acted cowardly and disrespectfully towards the BRF.

I have to say the two things they did that annoyed me the most was when they went to an impoverished area in Africa and gave an interview - about how hard THEY had it. If they were going to give that sort of interview they should have given it after they returned home.


And then Harry does it again at his speech for Sentebale. He spoke a bit about the organization then went right into a "enough about you lets talk about me" speech.



If they're going to behave like that charities are better off without them.

 

[Zaira]

I have to say the two things they did that annoyed me the most was when they went to an impoverished area in Africa and gave an interview - about how hard THEY had it. If they were going to give that sort of interview they should have given it after they returned home.


And then Harry does it again at his speech for Sentebale. He spoke a bit about the organization then went right into a "enough about you lets talk about me" speech.



If they're going to behave like that charities are better off without them.

He actually started by addressing the situation among a group of people he has known for years for an org he co-founded that is deeply personal to him, but the majority of the speech was actually about Sentebale. He didn't end on the personal stuff actually.

 

[Claire]

This might sound silly or even stupid, but maybe the BRF can come up with some suggested guidelines that might ease the transition for a future potential Royal newcomer...kind of like a handbook. Maybe this could also talk about the kind of life a working Royal leads, what is expected of a working Royal, etc.... There could even be a primer of sorts in how to handle the media.... This way there’s no confusion. This would be in addition to the personal discussions between the interested parties..

I think Edward pretty much wrote one - before he married Sophie he went to a number of royals about what they had felt they had done right and wrong. I don't think Sophie had any doubts about what she had signed up for. There is a bit possibility that Sophie might have actually initiated it. But there is only so much you can prepare for.

 

[Excalibur]

I think Edward pretty much wrote one - before he married Sophie he went to a number of royals about what they had felt they had done right and wrong. I don't think Sophie had any doubts about what she had signed up for. There is a bit possibility that Sophie might have actually initiated it. But there is only so much you can prepare for.

This would fit with the fact that Sophie seemed to be Kate's "mentor" in her early days in the BRF.

 

[Kataryn]

Maybe she did. Maybe they not as good of people as they want to come across as to the public.

Let's talk about "they" - I believe she was warmly welcomed by at least the queen and Philip and by Charles. Kate and William seemed to be happy as well. Probably more for Harry, but it could have grown.
A problem I see has been the "court" - part of the British establishment and as such good family, educated at privat schools, military service, civil service ed and then a job at BP or Clarence House for not that much money to either make career or larn enough to move on to Westminster. The people that run the palace. The people who had to say no to Harry and Meghan. The gentleman who softly explained to the Duke and Duchess why what the secretary told them is true and that there is no way HM or the PoW could (or would) change that date. When even Charles could not help Diana much with her diary problems because he had to rely as well on the fact that his team worked I doubt Harry could do something for Meghan's spontaneous ideas to go through without problems. Plus once they were thoroughly pissed off, they leaked. Harry knew all this, but what could he have done? Except stick by Meghan's side and thus against the sytsem he grew up in, but knew he would always be the "second" son.

Qith Meghan and Harry both how they are, it's understandible it ended like that. Sad but understandible.

 

[QueenMathilde]

He actually started by addressing the situation among a group of people he has known for years for an org he co-founded that is deeply personal to him, but the majority of the speech was actually about Sentebale. He didn't end on the personal stuff actually.

And I still don't like him "addressing the situation" at a charity - if he wanted to address the situation he should have had a separate interview later.


In any case I will wait and see. This whole situation might turn out just fine. But they certainly made it harder on themselves handling it like they did.

 

[Kataryn]

I think people did, but it might have been dismissed by Meghan as boilerplate small print by lowly non-woke civil service functionaries.

She definitely didn't read Bagehot or Erskine May.

And, Harry might not have been the best person to explain the role. If you could have time-travelled Tommy Lascelles into a hotel room with Meghan and let them go at it, a caged match sort of thing, she would come out of that knowing her new job or banished.

This might sound silly or even stupid, but maybe the BRF can come up with some suggested guidelines that might ease the transition for a future potential Royal newcomer...kind of like a handbook. Maybe this could also talk about the kind of life a working Royal leads, what is expected of a working Royal, etc.... There could even be a primer of sorts in how to handle the media.... This way there’s no confusion. This would be in addition to the personal discussions between the interested parties..

For an easy read they should giv potential brides the books "Yes Minister" and "Yes Prime Minister" and then introduce them to one of the "Sir Humphreys" at the palace for questioning... It might have helped. But it's too late now. I believe Meghan hatd the same things that Harry did not like when it came to palace life and so they went out.

 

[QueenMathilde]

For an easy read they should giv potential brides the books "Yes Minister" and "Yes Prime Minister" and then introduce them to one of the "Sir Humphreys" at the palace for questioning... It might have helped. But it's too late now. I believe Meghan hatd the same things that Harry did not like when it came to palace life and so they went out.

Even if he weren't a prince I would have suggested she live in the country for at least six months and see what she thought. The rumors were that she was looking for a famous British man and she was at first interested in Ashley Cole - he gave an interview saying that. If she wanted to marry someone (anyone) British shouldn't she see that she liked the country at least?

 

[Betsypaige]

I think Edward pretty much wrote one - before he married Sophie he went to a number of royals about what they had felt they had done right and wrong. I don't think Sophie had any doubts about what she had signed up for. There is a bit possibility that Sophie might have actually initiated it. But there is only so much you can prepare for.

Oh, ok - thanks! I agree with your last point, too...:

 

[Kataryn]

Even if he weren't a prince I would have suggested she live in the country for at least six months and see what she thought. The rumors were that she was looking for a famous British man and she was at first interested in Ashley Cole - he gave an interview saying that. If she wanted to marry someone (anyone) British shouldn't she see that she liked the country at least?

Makes sense, yes. I lived in London for a time but when we moved back because it became pregnant and we wanted to raise our child (there was only one alas, but at least that one!) in Germany, or rather "at home". But I really enjoyed the life in London, the music scene, the gastronomy suddenly took off and you could really get great food if you knew the places (and terrible if you went without a guide or recommendations). There were these strange rules like sunday afternoon only non-alcoholic drinks in pubs and in open supermarkets, so there were only some pubs open who served cream teas and in the supermarkets the wine department was cordonned off. Charles and Diana were still married and it was fun to look for bargain books about them,
It was fun, but weird in many aspects and the people were really kind to us but it was very different and not the place I wanted to raise my child.

I wonder if Meghan suddenly felt the same? When the tabloids took their weekend home near Soho Farmhouse away from them? Or they nosily asked for "All about Archie"?
Sometimes Harry and Meghan feel to me like two children running out of the house into the sunshine and feeling free, but in the end they have to come back home or build another place, that turns out to be very similar, out of necessity.

 

[Lilyflo]

And I still don't like him "addressing the situation" at a charity - if he wanted to address the situation he should have had a separate interview later.

It's not just "a charity' though is it. Harry co-founded Sentebale himself and is very personally involved in it. Johnny Hornby, the chairman of the charity, was happy about Harry's speech as they received tons of publicity and Johnny was on the BBC rolling news all the next day talking very positively about Harry and the charity's work.

 

[muriel]

They stripped Harry, who actually served, of his military titles. I wouldn’t blame him for not attending. But we shall see how it all plays out.

I can see them at Beatrice’s wedding.

Harry was not stripped of his military titles, he chose a route that was incongruent with military titles. You cannot have the Crown represented by those who could potentially use royal engagements for personal gain, as the video of the conversation with the Walt Disney executive demonstrated!

 

[Elenath]

I think- honestly- this is the result of the incredibly poor way Harry and Meghan have handled things publicly starting at least with the interview. Arguably you could go back to Archie’s birth. But my own re- evaluation started with the interview.

What is known just looks so bad. The optics were and are terrible. The whiny (imo) interview in Africa, of all places, where Meghan’s Misery was spelled out. You could walk out of that thinking- based on what she said- she hated the U.K., felt unsupported by the BRF and her life was just circling the drain being forced to live such a terrible life. Because she wasn’t thriving, the British stiff upper lip doesn’t work, no one asked how she was doing, she thought she’d get fair press etc al.

What exactly she meant is somewhat subject to interpretation- but how she presented herself: deeply unhappy- is not. She herself opened a lot of doors for speculation with that. It’s not hard imo to see how this happened.

Harry added to the mess by acknowledging issues with William. Great. So now he’s confirmed that. Now you add known family issues to the list. It’s not speculation- it’s fact. He goes off about his hatred of the media too.

Then- they take their “break”, they come back- and announce they’re going part time, moving and listing out how exactly (yet vaguely) this will work. Only they forgot to remember to make sure any of this was agreed to first. They blindside the family. Whoops. Even their FIRST STATEMENT was wrong. There is no part time; they’re just done. It looks incredibly underhanded, arrogant, entitled, thoughtless, pushy etc.

On top of all that- Meghan returning for 30 seconds in the U.K. looks bad. Harry handled the fallout while she went home. She moved her dogs to Canada. She didn’t bring Archie to visit family. (We can debate why she opted not to- but she brought him to Africa.) She started doing charity visits in Canada. If she wanted to even LOOK like she had any interest in remaining a working member of the BRF, had any love for the U.K., liked members of the BRF , this was the wrong way to handle it. You can debate why she did it, but the decision looks bad imo. Optically it just does imo. I’m not saying how she felt- just how it looks. That matters.

It’s easy to start seeing people in an increasingly poor light when known facts are so bad. Again- imo. They gave everyone a lot to work with.

I wasn’t a believer in “never complain, never explain.” Seemed a bit extreme. That might well have been the very best advice anyone in this family could get just looking at the mess Andrew, Harry and Meghan have made. And look where they are now.

Interpretation is what this all comes down to. I never saw a problem with how they handled Archie's birth and christening. I didn't care for the interview and thought it was a bit dramatic, but put it down to culture. Harry saying there were issues with William meant to me there were ups and downs. Like in all families. William has, I believe, said this himself at some point. This year, after the website was launched (which I thought was stupid but not awful), the first press statement by BP was equally stupid as far as I'm concerned. Months of talks is not early stages. If I were in Harry's shoes and I were trying to get things done, that statement wouldn't feel good. And it's not truthful.

And I really don't like that the entire blame for all of this is put on Meghan. Accusations here of keeping her son hostage? Of dropping him like a hat when he's no longer useful? Narcissism? Gold digger? She planned it all from the start? Dropping all of her friends, her family, etc? When I come here I expect a higher level than this!

While I agree it might have been smarter for them to come back to the UK as a family, we don't know why they didn't. There might be very good reasons for them staying there.

What I see however is people and press making a big fuss over things that aren't that important. And in let's say 10 years time, we might hear things that puts all of this in a different perspective. Like it did with Diana.

 

[Claire]

Harry was not stripped of his military titles, he chose a route that was incongruent with military titles. You cannot have the Crown represented by those who could potentially use royal engagements for personal gain, as the video of the conversation with the Walt Disney executive demonstrated!

I saw on the news that the palace consulted Generals and Commanders of the regiments can they advised against it. I will try to find the link- it had to do with the army and the Marines been unsure of his loyalty to the Crown and patriotism to his country. They noted that people they spoke to would refuse to toast to his health in the regiment.

 

[Princess]

the "Royal Highnesses" will be noted with a little smile too.

Probably

This is really a crazy story. Within less 2 years things developed in such an unexpected way.
Independent of "guilt", it might be the majority who blames Meghan for all this. Won't help it in no way

 

[Curryong]

I saw on the news that the palace consulted Generals and Commanders of the regiments can they advised against it. I will try to find the link- it had to do with the army and the Marines been unsure of his loyalty to the Crown and patriotism to his country. They noted that people they spoke to would refuse to toast to his health in the regiment.

Harry was in a Household Cavalry regiment serving for ten years. He had two tours of duty serving his country in Afghanistan, a period when he was in danger and could very well have lost his life. I do not believe that anyone serving in the Marines or any regiment in the British Army doubted Harry's patriotism. IMO that reasoning is just ridiculous.

 

[Hallo girl]

The alarm bells rang for me as well, when she said she didn't know a thing about Harry, I am not sure if she said she had never heard of him, so would need to listen to that bit again. I cannot believe she knew nothing about him before meeting him.

I have been challenged in the past on here by posters who saw some of my comments 're Meghan as petty. Probably individually they appeared petty , but I viewed them in the bigger picture as a lack of respect for the monarchy and in particular HM. I do not think Meghan intended to disrespect HM but it demonstrates a lack of understanding of what she had married into. Harry should have kept her right.