The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020


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This has been confusing me, the Buckingham Palace Press Rlease of January 18 stated that H + M will "maintain their personal patronages".

I'm now seeing this summary, per Emily Andrews (is she a good source?) published in Town & Country magazine:

"Harry will no longer be Captain General of Marines, Hon Air Commandant or Commodore-in-chief nor Youth Amabassdor. He & Meghan will keep Pres & VP of @queenscomtrust plus Sentebale, Invictus etc & M’s patronages she took on last year."

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/s...n-markle-prince-harry-commonwealth-new-roles/

Apologies if this is duplication.
 
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Harry's speech was actually confrontational and tried to pin the blame on the Royal Family for driving him out, which is actually a distorted version of reality.


Basically we have a situation where someone makes unacceptable demands and, when his demands are (justifiably) turned down, he blames the other side for forcing him out. Again, Harry's sense of entitlement is showing.


I am sorry for having to say that, but I wasn't moved an inch by his speech.

ok....no where did he blame his family at all. IMO they bear a lot of fault but Harry himself didn't say anything negative.

As it is neither you nor I know the 'reality' of the situation since we are not in the room where things happen. We are all speculating based on ever-changing info and agendas from a greedy media and internal polity.
 
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To me, it seems that in seeing the familial relationships, we're tending to lump everything together without realizing that its a two fold familial situation.

This is a family that not only has their private familial relationships but also had professional familial relationships. A lot of the discord that has happened came about because of the "Firm" and difference of opinions on how to do things. With William and Harry, they were not only brothers but partners in a Royal Foundation. Then came Catherine and then came Meghan.

On top of all that, they all work for the family "Firm" with the monarch at the helm. Not Granny. The monarch. Then as second tier, you don't have "Pa" but The Prince of Wales. With everyone, as a family, working for the same goals, they end up having differences of opinions on how things should and could be done. The "Firm" isn't a dictatorship but as the Queen, herself, sees it as "Team Windsor".

Harry and Meghan have left the "Firm" to strike out on their own. They're still members of the family and perhaps even with the "professional" disputes finally out of the way and solved, so will the tension between them as family members dissipate. I'd hope so anyways.
 
It's Harry's Life....

Why should he live it to the specifications and expectations of others?

There’s probably more than one member of this forum who has an adult child whose life and lifestyle they disapprove of, don’t like his spouse, hate his choice of career, disapprove of his political opinions or hobbies, etc...

Do you, can you force him to live his life as you see fit? Or is he entitled to make his own choices regardless of what you think?

I don’t think HM, the PoW, William, all the extended family, the U.K. newspapers and their readership, Piers Morgan, or the general public worldwide have the right to force H&M to live in a fashion that makes them unhappy. Charles said that his relationship with Camilla was “ non-negotiable”, no matter how much pain and embarrassment it caused others. No one objected to his spending Duchy money on his mistress. (Well, maybe they did!)

But Harry, currently 6th in line, is to have no autonomy just because others think he should do something different? Too bad, so sad, it is his life and he is entitled to live it as he pleases.

Of course, we are all entitled to our own opinions, I think a little more compassion is in order.

I do agree with you, Ladongas.

As an American I prize my independence.

It's just a fact of life that families move far away, move in different circles from their childhood friends, leave a family business, make a higher priority of their spouse and children then their grandparents/parents/siblings, as well as carving out their own financial situation.

As for knowing or doing that on your own in advance, some do, some can, others are more likely to do it when they find their life partner, or ? start a family if their own:wave:. It's different for everyone.

Can we agree that Harry's lifestyle and role (recently touted as "William's secret weapon" in the tabloids) had made it downright IMPOSSIBLE for him to maintain a relationship which would otherwise most likely have been viable, successful and become a long term happy marriage because of the British press + internet?

Instead a press buffer was created for William, which allowed Kate and William to get their footing. Harry was a solider and with the troops.

I do worry for him, as I don't believe that pulling away from everyone and keeping to himself, with Meghan and Archie alone would satisfy - we all need extended friends and family He will want and need his home country and connections, as well as new life and connections that they establish together - hopefully freely. I am sad for hims that for his military (so closely related to the Crown) and Queens Commonwealth Youth roles to be taken.

They seem the sort to be able to create that in any new place if without the harassment of the daily tabloid papers (the rota) and _courtiers_leaking nasty stories. I hope it will be safe, peaceful and without paparazzi for them. I hope, I hope, that security will become less and less necessary over time rather than the opposite. It does very much depend on how they handle themselves going forward, Meg mustn't drum it up for fame. That she opted to be paid for her voiceover with a donation to charity bodes wells. She will succeed and take Harry along with her; I believe they can do it as a team. She does seem to need Harry's help with his ability to connect to others. She also seems to have many strong friendships of her own choosing as well.

Once H, M and A are happy, the English family will take it in stride better.
.. or not.
It must bite to see someone grab freedom, when you are stuck in a role that has been determined by your birth, obligation weighing heavy upon you, with a calendar of inescapable dates growing more solid and regular that it keeps you from daily moments with those you love. Surrounded by riches, but only the custodian. Duty to others, always.

But to me what is worse is to be 2-3 steps removed from all the riches with no freedom or power, with those above in rank jealous of your popularity while you remain ... possibly without a partner or children, getting older.

Life is compromise and choice, but each one of us has to make our own choice.
Even if it's one we never really thought possible.
 
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To me, it seems that in seeing the familial relationships, we're tending to lump everything together without realizing that its a two fold familial situation.

This is a family that not only has their private familial relationships but also had professional familial relationships. A lot of the discord that has happened came about because of the "Firm" and difference of opinions on how to do things. With William and Harry, they were not only brothers but partners in a Royal Foundation. Then came Catherine and then came Meghan.

On top of all that, they all work for the family "Firm" with the monarch at the helm. Not Granny. The monarch. Then as second tier, you don't have "Pa" but The Prince of Wales. With everyone, as a family, working for the same goals, they end up having differences of opinions on how things should and could be done. The "Firm" isn't a dictatorship but as the Queen, herself, sees it as "Team Windsor".

Harry and Meghan have left the "Firm" to strike out on their own. They're still members of the family and perhaps even with the "professional" disputes finally out of the way and solved, so will the tension between them as family members dissipate. I'd hope so anyways.
Osipi - I just can't really even imagine how hard it would to get in sync with all the layers of that family with Major Public Role business due to birth order!
 
Seems reporters are questioning why Harry couldn’t maintain HRH or keep doing some service without the public purse as other royals have. ITV said they looking into it.

This story not dying down anytime soon
 
They are not trustworthy and have become toxic towards the firm. That will be my guess
 
I saw that in the DM...are they trying to go into producing tv shows and movies? Vehicles for Meghan? I doubt Charles is going to want to oversee what Harry is doing with the $ - in fact, it’s probably not a good idea as if he wants to be independent, he’s got to sink or swim on his own.

Netflix ?

Now......from the network that brought you The Crown......the true story of The Purloined Tiara, starring HRH...whoops, strike that......Meghan Sussex, playing herself.

?
 
I Definitely believe that Meghan is going to use her marriage to a Prince to further her ambitions. I once thought she wanted to be part of the BRF but now I see I was fooled. I feel sorry for Charles and the Queen who also has to deal with the Andrew situation.
 
He seems to be putting the blame on his family rather than taking any responsibility for their own actions in this drama. I would have more respect if he had just kept his mouth shut instead of playing the victim yet again.


Yes - it started off really well when he said that he'll always love the UK. He should have just left it there, but then he had to shout his mouth off about how this wasn't what he wanted. Sorry, Harry, but no-one gets exactly what they want in life, and you've already shown the Queen enough disrespect without adding to it. Couldn't he just have said that he's pleased to be starting a new life, blah-blah-blah?


A lot of people in the UK have relatives in Canada, the USA, Australia, New Zealand or elsewhere. It's not easy, especially if there are young children, and elderly grandparents or great-grandparents who aren't up to the long flights, but the geographical distance doesn't have to destroy family relationships, especially when people have the money to make frequent visits. That depends on the family dynamics.
 
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Harry said in his speech that he hopes this will bring him a “more peaceful life”. I’m afraid that may be what he wants but I don’t think for a minute that is what Meghan wants. Like many things about these two, this seems hasty and lacking proper planning. I’m afraid Harry is in blindly in love and as a result he is in for a rude awakening on this one in a few months / years time that will end up in tears.
 
I think that's more Meghan. I thnk she thought that royal life would be more glamourous and didn't realise that even for the queen and Charles and William, the direct line.. it is not that exciting.. and for a second string one like Harry, its not that grandiose.

You have it exactly, IMHO she totally misunderstood the concept of royal duty, it is not all glamorous premiers and state dinners.
IMHO meghan didn't intend moving on so quick but she did think she could change the way things were done to suit her ways.

There are a lot of mundane visits but to the recipients ,they are just as important as the star studded events.

The queen is still working at 93, Philip has only recently retired at 98, Charles and Camilla in their 70's . Princess Anne at 69.
Even their down time at Sandringham or Balmoral is photographed.

Basic rules of royalty, you do not outshine the star and you should not earn money on the back of the HRH title.
 
This has been confusing me, the Buckingham Palace Press Rlease of January 18 stated that H + M will "maintain their personal patronages".

I'm now seeing this summary, per Emily Andrews (is she a good source?) published in Town & Country magazine:

"Harry will no longer be Captain General of Marines, Hon Air Commandant or Commodore-in-chief nor Youth Amabassdor. He & Meghan will keep Pres & VP of @queenscomtrust plus Sentebale, Invictus etc & M’s patronages she took on last year."

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/s...n-markle-prince-harry-commonwealth-new-roles/

Apologies if this is duplication.



What’s confusing exactly? Henry has been stripped of his honorary military appointments and his role as Commonwealth Youth Ambassador.

They will keep their personal patronage’s such as Sentebale, Invictus and Smartworks.
 
He seems to be putting the blame on his family rather than taking any responsibility for their own actions in this drama. I would have more respect if he had just kept his mouth shut instead of playing the victim yet again.

He'd be much better to just say he was moving on to a new life, and hoped to go on with Sentabelet and other charities from his old life.. and make no allusion to the drama.
 
Harry's speech was actually confrontational and tried to pin the blame on the Royal Family for driving him out, which is actually a distorted version of reality.


Basically we have a situation where someone makes unacceptable demands and, when his demands are (justifiably) turned down, he blames the other side for forcing him out. Again, Harry's sense of entitlement is showing.


I am sorry for having to say that, but I wasn't moved an inch by his speech.

Ditto!

Harry needs to grow up. Setting out into the real world is going to be a shock for both of them.
 
:previous:That needs a whole box of salt. There are so many things that don’t even make sense.

I do believe he may have been an indulgent parent.

I’ve said before, take some facts, give them a spin, embroider some new details and you have a new, not quite true, story

That's another thing I guess reporters over the years were wrong on - I thought William and Harry got along well with Camilla. Well, I guess that was too much to ask, I suppose......
 
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I think that's a little optimistic. I think his public image in the UK will not bounce back just because he said "oops, I prefer my old life after all!". Now if he wants to come back as a private citizen I'm sure he can rebuild his family relationships overtime, that trust will be hard to earn. But if he comes back trying to be "Prince Harry", they'll be plenty of judgment. He would need to give the public an epic mea culpa, even then he might not be embraced.

I don't think tthat he'd be welcome at least not for some time if he tried to come back to Royal life. The public who follow Royal life aren't likely to welcome someone who walked out on it so blatantly with such a drama. ANd it mghigt look that he's failed at money making or living in Canada, and come back tail between legs. He doe have fans in the UK but I am not sure there ar enough to ensure a warm welcome...
 
The people determined to find fault will find it no matter what. The Sussexes won't be able to do anything to please them...even if it causes them to contradict themselves.



LaRae


The only thing that will help them is to learn to ignore other people's opinions and the media. It is their life, they should live it as they want and be without guilty feelings in the end. And they should stop readiong tabloid-articles. These are only there to further the agenda of some journalists and to earn big bucks on selling negative and hateful stories...
 
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I found a few things on another forums that were the sticking pints that resulted in the Queen refusing the part time royal request. All of this is speculation.
1. The request to setup a separate office in North America - they would surely be needing a staff, it was unclear the autonomy of this office and its workings with the palace. There were adamant that there was no way to set up an independent body possibly creating a monarchy of Canada and USA.
2. Political involvement - The Sussex wanted to be able to voice their opinion of a number of topics , these might be controversial and might conflict to the policies of the British government and will definitely conflict to the Queen stance on political neutrality. It has also been suggested that they want to be more involved and front and center. So maybe been arrested in the Environmental protests and standing behind Jane Fonda.
3. Freebies - The Sussex have said nothing about the free goods, jewelry, dresses, dinners, holidays and accommodation that have received. Royal practice is that all gifts received on duty belong to the monarchy or refused. It would have been impossible to determine whether goods were given as a result of the private person or towards a representative of the monarchy. or to place it another way - paying for access to royalty for or to provide free publicity to the company. It was just ambiguous to create a rule for.
 
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Basically we have a situation where someone makes unacceptable demands and, when his demands are (justifiably) turned down, he blames the other side for forcing him out. Again, Harry's sense of entitlement is showing.


I am sorry for having to say that, but I wasn't moved an inch by his speech.

THIS ^

Blackmail, or a [failed] attempt at it, isn't a 'good look', from a Man to his Grandmother, Father, and Brother - and all the fine words in the Arsenal wont wash THAT away...
 
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Seems reporters are questioning why Harry couldn’t maintain HRH or keep doing some service without the public purse as other royals have. ITV said they looking into it.

This story not dying down anytime soon

Because he wanted to have a half in and half out role, spending time making his own money and the queen's not going to allow that. If he had watned to retire to private life, and keep a few patronages, as a private individual that would be one thing. But they made no secret of the fact that they want to "make their own money" and use their "Brand" to do so. Other royals like Beatrice and Eugenie have jobs or live their own lives and are not working for the queen, THey each have charity interests that they pursue at times, but they are not royal workers and never have been....
 
He seems to be putting the blame on his family rather than taking any responsibility for their own actions in this drama. I would have more respect if he had just kept his mouth shut instead of playing the victim yet again.

I reread the speech to see if I could see what you’re seeing...I’m not sure.

Of course he wasn’t going to go into details, but the “there was no other option” was so vague and could be interpreted in so many ways. As to the part where he said he’d hoped to serve the Queen, but that was “impossible...that was no doubt dropped in there to make him a more sympathetic figure, so

Overall, I’m not sure he was blaming his family, but there was a LOT left unsaid. This wasn’t the time or place to air dirty laundry, but I do think it left many unanswered questions...I still hate that it ended this way, and I still hate how Harry and Meghan handles this whole thing
 
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I reread the speech to see if I could see what you’re seeing...I’m not sure.

Of course he wasn’t going to go into details, but the “there was no other option” was so vague and could be interpreted in so many ways. As to the part where he said he’d hoped to serve the Queen, but that was “impossible...that was no doubt dropped in there to make him a more sympathetic figure, so

Overall, I’m not sure he was blaming his family, but there was a LOT left unsaid. This wasn’t the time or place to air dirty laundry, but I do think it left many unanswered questions...I still hate that it ended this way, and I still hate how Harry and Meghan handles this whole thing

what other way could it end? They wanted half and half.. they could not have it. They wanted badly I think to be free from too many obligations and restrictions.. and now they have been let go.. probably with a reasonable amount of money to help them at least for a few years. Its up to them now. If they make some money and do some charity work good. But they will get crticisim if they are too controversial.. or too money grabbing. I hope they are prepared for that.
 
Not only be free of obligations and restrictions but to also "forge a new path" in their own way and as relatively newcomers to working full time for a very old institution, they hit the proverbial brick wall. They didn't really like their office and staff set up in BP and under the Queen's supervision and wanted a "branch" office in N. America somewhere. They wanted to forgo the 5% from the Sovereign Grant (the Queen's supervision included in that package) and be "financially independent". Set themselves up as chief CEOs of their own "business" yet still "work" for the "Firm". In a way, it all could be seen as working for a corporation but yet setting themselves up on the side in competition. No employer would ever allow that. Most employers do not like moonlighting either. You work for them or you don't. No middle road.

The situation ended up with Harry and Meghan free to go and do as they wish, where they wish and good luck to them. They are also prohibited from any kind of hint or association that could be misleading and insinuate that they have the blessing of the "Firm" they're leaving. The "Firm" and the royal family that goes with it is the sole property of monarchy of the UK and for all intents and purposes, are not to be affiliated with H&M's "new path" in any way, shape or form. Hence the prohibition on the use of any "royal" status, tiles and styles. A very clean break was made.

Harry and Meghan now will be responsible for their own endeavors, their own offices and staff, all expenditures incurred and will be as separate from the "Firm" as much as BMW and the Ford Motor Co. are. Looking at it this way, it even can be seen as definitely being competing organizations.

There are an estimated 10 million (non-governmental organizations) NGOs worldwide. Harry and Meghan's will be one of them. There is only *one* "Firm" attached to the monarchy of the UK. If it was a horse race, there's no question of which horse I'd be backing in this. :D
 
You have it exactly, IMHO she totally misunderstood the concept of royal duty, it is not all glamorous premiers and state dinners.
IMHO meghan didn't intend moving on so quick but she did think she could change the way things were done to suit her ways.

There are a lot of mundane visits but to the recipients ,they are just as important as the star studded events.

The queen is still working at 93, Philip has only recently retired at 98, Charles and Camilla in their 70's . Princess Anne at 69.
Even their down time at Sandringham or Balmoral is photographed.

Basic rules of royalty, you do not outshine the star and you should not earn money on the back of the HRH title.
I think that royal duty as carried out by Anne, Andrew, Edward, the Kents and Gloucesters is the mundane stuff but I don't think Meghan had gotten to that point. I think that the bulk of Meghan's engagements, along with Harry and Kate's, seem to be either the splashy / high profile events or events associated with hand-picked causes. I don't think the mundane stuff is their current reality, but I wonder if she (and Harry) looked into the future and anticipated that eventually a good chunk of their work would be the mundane stuff.

I think what was untenable about the current environment, in addition to the hostilities with the media, was the behind the scenes friction between the Sussexes and courtiers and/or family members.

I respectfully disagree with the last sentence and suspect that is a big sticking point. I am willing to bet that there are royals who've been making their own money and don't drop their HRH style when they are engaging in these activities. It's not been an issue because there is little interest in those royals and their money-making pursuits, and when there is, the story usually goes away after a few days.
 
On the relationship between William and Harry, and I'm not sure if this makes sense, if William has always felt responsible for Harry (and I do get that feeling), it must be hard for him not to act on this. For Harry it must have been great when they were teens, but when you are an adult it can, and probably will, cause friction. Combined with the Family business (because that's what the Firm is) it's bound to cause trouble. There are currently 3 major people who have quite a lot to say within the Firm and not all of them will want the same thing. And while it will be easier to accept decisions you don't agree with from your gran and your father, it's a lot harder to accept from your brother.

Perhaps a little distance will clear the air for everyone involved. Family business is not for everyone.
 
He'd be much better to just say he was moving on to a new life, and hoped to go on with Sentabelet and other charities from his old life.. and make no allusion to the drama.

Exactly! I couldn't help but think that his speech was written by Meghan who wants this story line to have a life. I'm very very disappointed in both Harry and Meghan.

I've said this before and I'll say it again … this isn't going to end well. :bang::bang:
 
I think they married too fast , they barely knew each other in a day to day setting . They had a long distance relationship and one result of such a relationship is that people are often on their best behaviour when they are together to make those days count . Maybe an approach like in Denmark would have worked . Have Meghan move to the UK and live there for a while , with Harry or without him , just to get a feel for the place beyond being a tourist .




I see that a direct result of the Diana's boys narrative . After Diana's death the press attached them to each other and treated them like they were the same and equal to each other . And I believe, with the Queen getting older and everybody now being in smooth transition mode , it hit Harry like a brick , that he's not really equal and that he isn't even the "spare" anymore ,
That’s exactly what a few of us said right before the engagement was announced (in fact I was still very adamant after it was announced) and we were essentially been told we were wrong in our worries and that everything would be okay. In fact some of the members commenting in this very thread (many who are now mad at the couple behavior- rightfully so) were the ones in full support of these two going full steam ahead.
 
I do think they rushed into it, but they wanted to start a family, Meghan was already in her late 30s, and it’s not always easy. In the end, they were very lucky and were able to conceive Archie very soon after the wedding, but they weren’t to know that that was going to happen. It seems likely that Guillaume and Stephanie of Luxembourg were trying for years, and I would think that Albert and Charlene of Monaco probably were too. Sophie and Edward have pretty much said that they struggled to start a family, and Sophie had the ectopic pregnancy. Zara miscarried twice. If they’d met 5 years earlier, they probably wouldn’t have been in such a rush, but I do understand them not wanting to wait. It was much more sensible for Kate and William to wait a while, live together first, let Kate get settled in, but Kate was only 19 when she and William first got together.
 
Not only be free of obligations and restrictions but to also "forge a new path" in their own way and as relatively newcomers to working full time for a very old institution, they hit the proverbial brick wall. They didn't really like their office and staff set up in BP and under the Queen's supervision and wanted a "branch" office in N. America somewhere. They wanted to forgo the 5% from the Sovereign Grant (the Queen's supervision included in that package) and be "financially independent". Set themselves up as chief CEOs of their own "business" yet still "work" for the "Firm". In a way, it all could be seen as working for a corporation but yet setting themselves up on the side in competition. No employer would ever allow that. Most employers do not like moonlighting either. You work for them or you don't. No middle road.

The situation ended up with Harry and Meghan free to go and do as they wish, where they wish and good luck to them. They are also prohibited from any kind of hint or association that could be misleading and insinuate that they have the blessing of the "Firm" they're leaving. The "Firm" and the royal family that goes with it is the sole property of monarchy of the UK and for all intents and purposes, are not to be affiliated with H&M's "new path" in any way, shape or form. Hence the prohibition on the use of any "royal" status, tiles and styles. A very clean break was made.

Harry and Meghan now will be responsible for their own endeavors, their own offices and staff, all expenditures incurred and will be as separate from the "Firm" as much as BMW and the Ford Motor Co. are. Looking at it this way, it even can be seen as definitely being competing organizations.

There are an estimated 10 million (non-governmental organizations) NGOs worldwide. Harry and Meghan's will be one of them. There is only *one* "Firm" attached to the monarchy of the UK. If it was a horse race, there's no question of which horse I'd be backing in this. :D

They wanted it all, but they learned they can not have it all...the Monarchy wins again, lol... You’re either all in or all out....the Royal life is a full time commitment, not something you do on the side as a leisure time activity. It’s a lot of hard work, and it requires sacrifices - painful sacrifices. Harry wasn’t ever going to be King, so honestly, I think he had it as good as it could get - he’d work full-time, but still have quality family life. William is the one with the heavy burden of responsibility, but for now he hasn’t had to sacrifice family time thanks to his grandmother’s longevity. Neither she nor Charles were that fortunate.

Yep, the Queen and Charles - because he was definitely involved in this - left no doubt that Harry and Meghan would have to forge their new life separate and apart from the BRF. They wanted freedom, and now they have it - and with freedom comes responsibility. They’ve got Charles’ funding to back them for now, but it won’t always be that way.
 
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