The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[carlota]

Does Harry get to pick his place in the line of succession?

They addressed they’d refund the costs of the frogmore cottage renovation but they never addressed whether they will need to pay rent for it.

It seems to me that a lot remains to be sorted / decided in this situation still. Their immigration status in both Canada and Uk, security, how they will finance themselves etc.

 

[duchessrachel]

It is sad how the actions of parents are so often used to judge the children. Other than not always being terribly sensible in their fashion choices (a 'sin' I suffer from myself), what dreadful mistakes have Beatrice and Eugenie made?

I can't see Edward and Sophie wanting Louise and James to become senior royals, but time will tell...

It makes me sad for them. It is not their fault for Andrew's situation. I feel bad that Beatrice may not get a fancy Princess wedding like Eugenie did because of father. I can only imagine the booing that might be directed at Andrew if she had a public wedding and how embarrassing that would be for her. Then again, she may not want a wedding like Eugenie's.

 

[poppy7]

I agree. If the BRF can survive the War of the Wales and the week that Diana died, they most definitely are going to make it through this.

Course they can. Harry before Meghan. Well that would have been devastating. But they have been toxic in the last year. And there is no other way to put it. It's toxic. And I think people in particular are sick of her. On a news program last week. People actually starting groaning when the race card was brought up again. Yes racism exists.but they have played that card everyone she was criticised and I think people are just a bit fed up of the moaning.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I believe those were honorary ranks— since 2018, not 2008.
The rank he had when he left the military in 2011 was Captain.

My apologies it was 2018, but they’re not honorary they’re substantive and permanent.

 

[soapstar]

But no news regarding any money to be provided to them via the Duchy of Cornwall?. which was essentially their main salary.

According to royal reporters, they’re still working that out. They’re saying that if Charles does continue to fund them, the money might not come from the Duchy.

 

[poppy7]

My apologies it was 2018, but they’re not honorary they’re substantive and permanent.

No they are gone now. It was on the BBC.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Does Harry get to pick his place in the line of succession?

They addressed they’d refund the costs of the frogmore cottage renovation but they never addressed whether they will need to pay rent for it.

It seems to me that a lot remains to be sorted / decided in this situation still. Their immigration status in both Canada and Uk, security, how they will finance themselves etc.

Why would he get to pick his place? And they did address the rent, not in the statement but it’s been confirmed by BP to Royal Reporters that they will pay commercial rent.

Finance wise it’s via Charles, not necessarily The Duchy of Cornwall money either.

Security and immigration is what’s left.

No they are gone now. It was on the BBC.

No, his honorary military appointments have gone. His appointments on 14th May, were substantive and permanent. Unless someone can prove to me otherwise, I’ll keep searching for the gazette notification.

Edit found it: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/62328/supplement/10858

There are three types of rank substantive and permanent, temporary and honorary. As you can see from the announcement his ranks were permanent.

 

[Helen.CH]

When Diana became Diana, Princess of Wales, she continued to be referred to in the US as “ Princess Diana “ ( which she never was BTW) or simply “ Princess Di”, so I guess that gives you a hint.

Diana’s case of course had the complication that her post-divorce style did include the word “ Princess” , which added to the confusion for the American audience. .

US Media already called Meghan “ Meghan , Duchess of Sussex” , so I don’t see a big change here. I am sure “ Duchess Meghan” will continue to pop up a lot too. It will more difficult to adjust to not calling Harry “ Prince Harry” as he has been a prince for his entire life. I wouldn’t be surprised if American media started using “ Duke Harry” or simply stuck with “ Prince” anyway.

I have even seen some reports from Canada and the visit of the women's saying Duchess of Sussex, Meghan Markle.
If planned could be an early try to get attention of her original name for any time after a possible divorce. I cannot imagine US people do know Sussex is either a place, dukedom or whatever and will remember this name a lot but stick to simpler things like H&M or Markle.

 

[texankitcat]

Yes absolutely! You (and the person you were replying to) are absolutely right. The story itself has not made CBS-Los Angeles or KTLA (does anyone in California watch Fox-nationwide?)

California bans altogether taking pictures for publication if a child is in the picture, and Malibu has its own local policies as well. Furthermore, Meghan and Harry just won't be all that paparazzi-worthy (except to British tabloids, again - which is a British problem and perhaps it's time for a little cancel culture on the other side of the pond?)

At any rate, at least if the Sussexes come to California, they won't be surrounded by people who read about the Royals in tabloids and who surely do not care about most of the things Meghan has done wrong (like hold her baby in a position some people find awkward). I am the only person I know who follows this at all and everyone's eyes glaze over (even in the history or political science department) when I try to bring it up.

Canada is probably an even better place for laying low, physically (but they do have more news about Royals on a day to day basis).

I completely disagree. Native Californian here and I can say without any doubt that The BRF and Prince Harry is absolutely news worthy. There is no way they will be left alone by the media and tabloid press particularly since they are extremely high profile Royals from the most famous Royal family in the world. They will not be able to step outside their door without cameras and cell phones catching everything they do. It will be worse than the British press because there will be no barrier to protect them. Harry is in for a rude awakening if that is their goal.

 

[camelot23ca]

Well. I knew this was the way things had to end up, but even after reading the statement from BP a couple of times I’m still finding it hard to process how suddenly things have changed for the couple.

I’m very glad QEII and Charles and/or the government laid down a very hard no to the original plan the Sussexes posted on their website. Clearly the grown ups who actually run this show, (not all of them royal), got involved very quickly after the statement was posted. I think M and H deciding to post their announcement the way they did was a very bad blunder on their part. Trying to force the hand of a stronger party, and one who isn’t even being especially adversarial, clearly wasn’t the best negotiating strategy. If they had been mature about this and discreetly carried out talks over several months I think they probably could have come away with a slightly better deal than what they have now.

This is a good clean break. The BRF will carry on. Harry and Meghan now have the independence they think they want, (although I do wonder if Harry, especially, realizes how much his life is going to change). I don’t see the review in one year time as an open door for a potential Sussex return, at least not a return to any substantial royal roles. They’ve shown themselves to be much too unreliable for that.

I scratch my head when people talk about Charles needing to support them. Harry and Meghan are wealthy people in their own right. They have more than enough money to live well for the rest of their lives without lifting a finger. They clearly state their main goal is financial independence. I can see Charles stepping in to pay for their security if their current arrangements are cut, but, other than that, they don’t need to accept a dime from anyone. They just need to lower their standard of living like millions of other people do when their professional circumstances change.

 

[yvr girl]

Yes absolutely! You (and the person you were replying to) are absolutely right. The story itself has not made CBS-Los Angeles or KTLA (does anyone in California watch Fox-nationwide?)

California bans altogether taking pictures for publication if a child is in the picture, and Malibu has its own local policies as well. Furthermore, Meghan and Harry just won't be all that paparazzi-worthy (except to British tabloids, again - which is a British problem and perhaps it's time for a little cancel culture on the other side of the pond?)

At any rate, at least if the Sussexes come to California, they won't be surrounded by people who read about the Royals in tabloids and who surely do not care about most of the things Meghan has done wrong (like hold her baby in a position some people find awkward). I am the only person I know who follows this at all and everyone's eyes glaze over (even in the history or political science department) when I try to bring it up.

Canada is probably an even better place for laying low, physically (but they do have more news about Royals on a day to day basis).

Canada in general doesn't have a tabloid culture. Paparazzi is not really a thing here either. I live in Vancouver, and a lot of movies and TV shows are made here. We do see reports on celebrities, but they are very different. Reese Witherspoon was here and she raved about a little donut shop on her Insta. That got picked up by the local news. Canada just want people to love us...when celebrities say how much they like the country our media makes sure everyone knows.

 

[ashelen]

All this is a very much sad situation, for their families , the Queen and Archie. I understand he probably wanted out of the family since his mother died, which I could understand and Meghan just gave him the push he needed it to get it done. This had been in the making for a while. She probably loved it at the beginning, the magic of being a princes, the fame, money and power, being married to the son of Diana, and have a baby with her blood too. But after she got tired of the protocol, formality being told what is expected from her, etc...….. Beside of course the media criticizing all the time. Also as it was only her mother in her wedding from her family and we all know she cut off all her family except from her mother, it is not big deal from her to do the same with Harry's family. Just I feel sorry for the baby, Wonder what he will think when he grows up, he might be telling her off how she cut him off from his family, not to mention, he will not have British accent and he will grow up in schools in America or Canada.
She left their home in Windsor, after all the expense , she does not have a sense of belonging nor roots...…..
I understand they want to earn their own money, and they still they want to do some charities, but why the charity in Canada gave her a necklace worth $1500? I mean don't this charities try to rise money to found their causes, and they use the money to buy such a gift for her just because she showed up? Wishing them the best and for their kid and I hope they have a very happy ending and live happy ever after but I can not really see it . I hope I am wrong.

 

[Betsypaige]

Their definition of financial freedom was and is quite amusing. That means: you get to pay for EVERYTHING.

I don’t have a high opinion of how Harry and Meghan have handled this- starting with the interview. It’s really left a bad taste in my mouth. It was incredibly immature. They basically threw a public temper tantrum. And they are in their mid to late 30s for goodness sake! It’s embarrassing. And sad for everyone. They hurt a lot of people.

And now the rest of the family has to deal with the mess they’ve made, long and short term.

What they mean by “financial freedom” is...having finances taken care of for them so they can have the freedom to not have to do such terrible work as the Royals do, lol

Agreed ! Complaining in Africa, AFRICA - where people are lucky if they have enough to barely survive on.....they’re oblivious to how they look. Good luck to them - I think they’re going to need it.

 

[wyevale]

Sussex was passed the position of Captain General of the Royal Marines from his grandfather, Prince Philip, who had held it from 1953 to 2017.

Sussex barely managed 3 years .. The Duke of Edinburgh must be devastated..

 

[carlota]

I didn’t know a charity gave her a 1500 jewellery piece. That’s not good publicity for the charity nor for Meghan.

So they may give up positions on commonwealth roles but seem to keep the queens commonwealth trust patronage....

Good to know they will pay rent for their Windsor cottage.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

No, his honorary military appointments have gone. His appointments on 14th May, were substantive and permanent. Unless someone can prove to me otherwise, I’ll keep searching for the gazette notification.

Edit found it: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/62328/supplement/10858

There are three types of rank substantive and permanent, temporary and honorary. As you can see from the announcement his ranks were permanent.

I wonder how the Military sees all this then? Since Harry seemingly won’t be involved in the future. He wouldn’t have given those ranks without having been Prince Harry.

I did find information posted on Royal Central about roles he has lost-
Captain General of the Marines
Honorary Air Commandant Royal Air Force Honington
Commodore-in-Chief of Small Ships and Diving

Wasn’t the Captain General appointment the one he got when Philip retired? That must have hurt his grandfather.

Royal Central also says The Sussexes will lose their appointments as Commonwealth Youth Ambassadors.

 

[yvr girl]

I am so happy for Harry and Meghan. They are still members of the Royal Family and will continue to serve the Monarchy. https://sussexroyal.com/monarchy/

No one has all the immediate answers but I think the Queen has given them a gift!

That website isn't up to date...there is even a note on the home page stating the fact. They are still part of the family but they won't be representing the monarchy after the transition.

 

[Betsypaige]

I completely disagree. Native Californian here and I can say without any doubt that The BRF and Prince Harry is absolutely news worthy. There is no way they will be left alone by the media and tabloid press particularly since they are extremely high profile Royals from the most famous Royal family in the world. They will not be able to step outside their door without cameras and cell phones catching everything they do. It will be worse than the British press because there will be no barrier to protect them. Harry is in for a rude awakening if that is their goal.

I was the one who made the original post. In NY, sure - the lousy NY Post and Daily News will cover them as they do all “celebs”, no matter how phony. The NY Times won’t, though - not on a regular occurrence unless they are in NY, and even then it would be limited. Neither will Newsday or other papers. You really think the LA Times will have a Royal beat reporter to cover M and H if they live in LA? If they’re visiting, yes, but my point was that on an everyday, regular basis, most genuine newspapers will not be following the faux royals around....

 

[Missjersey]

I completely disagree. Native Californian here and I can say without any doubt that The BRF and Prince Harry is absolutely news worthy. There is no way they will be left alone by the media and tabloid press particularly since they are extremely high profile Royals from the most famous Royal family in the world. They will not be able to step outside their door without cameras and cell phones catching everything they do. It will be worse than the British press because there will be no barrier to protect them. Harry is in for a rude awakening if that is their goal.

Exactly, don’t think for a second she was ever going to have a low profile. Front and center was locked in when she heard him utter “I do”. It was part of the plan for me.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I wonder how the Military sees all this then? Since Harry seemingly won’t be involved in the future.

I did find information posted on Royal Central about roles he has lost-
Captain General of the Marines
Honorary Air Commandant Royal Air Force Honington
Commodore-in-Chief of Small Ships and Diving

Wasn’t the Captain General appointment the one he got when Philip retired?

Royal Central also says The Sussexes will lose their appointments as Commonwealth Youth Ambassadors.

I posted this information earlier, he has lost his honorary military appointments only and yes the Captain General of the Marines was the role passed on from Prince Philip.

It is only Henry that is a Commonwealth Youth Ambassador, and they're correct he has lost it. They have not lost their President and Vice President role however.

 

[lirienn]

I'm torn on this. Who won. Meghan already did two photo ops not including pictures of her pilates friend and stylist coming to the huge mansion. I wonder how soon she'll become a celebrity and act as such.
I'm scared for Harry. He might have liked to escape for a while but he was born and raised in a palace. He wants a peaceful life but Meghan loves attention for good or bad.
I'm sorry to see Harry without his army titles. Without his friends. In a country/countries he might not understand. That's why we worry about the divorce. I worry their interest will collide. And you know, leaving the royal lifestyle as outdated as it is is hard.
Edit: as for money are they this thirsty to not pay for security themselves? and still get money from Charles? "financial independence". So.. receiving money from all parties?

 

[Betsypaige]

Canada in general doesn't have a tabloid culture. Paparazzi is not really a thing here either. I live in Vancouver, and a lot of movies and TV shows are made here. We do see reports on celebrities, but they are very different. Reese Witherspoon was here and she raved about a little donut shop on her Insta. That got picked up by the local news. Canada just want people to love us...when celebrities say how much they like the country our media makes sure everyone knows.

One of my favorite shows used to be filmed in Steveston, and the only “paparazzi” were local photographers who loved to sneak behind lines and take photos where they weren’t supposed to. I don’t recall any instances where reporters/photographers ever followed the actors around, and one of them is a very big name, especially in the UK

 

[Diotima]

I'm sad and shocked. Read the whole thread to calm down - well, that didn't work too well!

On a personal level, I'm so sad for Prince Philip and the Queen. To see Harry's behaviour over the last few months - and how he changed - just terrible. The tabloids made life unbearable for him and Meghan, and I can't understand why they had to rush into marriage, rush into so much activity. Everybody thought that Meghan knows what she's signing up for, she seemed so confident... and now a burn-out after less than two years.

So what are they left with now? Harry wanted to live a private life - I think it was cruel that he couldn't continue in the military, just like his grandfather. He won't get a private life now, he'll get gloating paparazzi and the kind of patronising articles like Rebecca English penned about him - "nice stupid Harry". No BP any more to protect him and his family.

They are rich and I can't understand why his father should support them but that's their business. If they want to play in the league of the super rich it seems they'll need a business plan. But is this what Harry wants? I have the feeling not quite.

I can't get over the inner image of Prince Philip lying in bed in his cottage at Sandringham, knowing that all this chaos is going on and he can't control it, can't support the queen like he was used to. I hope Harry went to see him.

The queen's message was very gracious and kind. She acknowledged how tough it must have been for Meghan. The press was cruel to her, just as it was to other women who married into the royal family and also born royals (the Yorkies). Somehow, there is always more interest in tearing a woman down than there is for a man.

Why did they rush into marriage? It turns out in retrospect that Kate did it just right. She dipped one toe after the other, and while people called her a social climber and lazy etc, there must have been a plan, and it worked. Meghan rushed in, crushed and burned. What a sad story.

And why did they rush the website, their declaration, all this publicity? If they didn't want press attention - why attract attention by a very public flounce?

I really hope this won't affect Archie. Young children are very sensitive and attuned to their parents' feelings.

The RF as institution will come out of this undamaged, they found an elegant way out. Harry and Meghan will find a way to build a new life, even though it didn't turn out the way they wanted. It's sad for Harry's grandparents, and ultimately for him, too. Maybe a less glamorous woman would have suited his ideas of private life better? But they love each other. I hope that's enough for them.

I hope they'll all be happy.

 

[yvr girl]

Below is a link to an updated version of the article I posted yesterday...

Ok, so Harry and William’s relationship with their father has had ups and downs - that’s life in any family. What I don’t understand it’s why Harry didn’t speak to Charles about feeling “pushed out”. It’s not like Charles doesn’t praise him publicly, saying how proud he is of him. What does Harry want? He doesn’t want to be “pushed out”, but he also doesn’t want to be a working Royal. What then? Then he’s pissed at his father because he’s jealous that William and Kate got “their own court” and he and Meghan did not? William is the future king, there’s a big difference. I believe this, yes I do; not everything in the newspapers is wrong. I feel like Harry is running away to North America as a way to cope with his feelings of insecurity and kind of jealousy (I say kind of because he hates the media). As to the rift with his brother, it seems sibling rivalry runs deeper than I thought.





https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sp...conflict-is-between-charles-and-his-sons/amp/

Anne, Andrew and Edward didn't get their own court either. Nor did Princess Margaret. It is usually just the heir. The only reason William has a third royal court is because of the long reign of The Queen. It's not very often that a monarch has 3 adult direct heirs.

 

[poppy7]

I wonder how the Military sees all this then? Since Harry seemingly won’t be involved in the future. He wouldn’t have given those ranks without having been Prince Harry.

I did find information posted on Royal Central about roles he has lost-
Captain General of the Marines
Honorary Air Commandant Royal Air Force Honington
Commodore-in-Chief of Small Ships and Diving

Wasn’t the Captain General appointment the one he got when Philip retired? That must have hurt his grandfather.

Royal Central also says The Sussexes will lose their appointments as Commonwealth Youth Ambassadors.

Apparently they were not happy. So days the news. I think Phillip is pretty much finished caring about that stuff. He is in his last years. I am sure he is philosophical.

Harry on the other hand probably is devastated. He lost the two things he really cared about. Commonwealth and military.

 

[Countessmeout]

It’s only a Dukedom now though, nothing Royal. It has lost some luster.

I imagine the funding is to retain some control over them.

But they are paying a hefty sum (and I’m not convinced they will keep it for longterm.)

Maybe, we’ll see who wants to keep them as patrons.

But they said they wanted to continue to collaborate with the Queen and undertake tours for her.

Security was not addressed, so is still an unknown.

Do you think charities care if they have Prince princess in their title??? Or businesses for that matter?? No. They want Royal patrons for the publicity they get as publicity brings attention and funding to their cause.

We saw this before. No one will be interested In their wedding, they are okay sixth in line, not like William. Wrong. No one will be interested in their baby as he is only seventh in line and that's not exciting. Wrong. People rarely care about where someone falls in line if succession. They love to gossip. For a huge chunk of the world royals aren't celebrity friends they are celebrities. The people who make the cover are not those with the midst power, but those who are exciting and sell stories.

The black prince who ran away from duties and his biracial former actress wife. The tabloids will be licking their flaws for stories for years to come. Especially when daddy is king. And that means money for pang business they are working with and publicity for any charity they are involved in.

Harry will show up in his military uniform or a suit eith his wife and son to his father's coronation. And likely many family events prior, when smoke clears.

As for the Royal charities, they don't care if Harry still is a working Royal. Many patronages are happy to have the yorks. Harry is still the son of the future king.

And Archie and any siblings will grow up normal. And like the kids of the Kents and Gloucesters, he will be a future Duke with a private life and career.

If there is any need for more slack the yorks are the obvious. Zara and Peter have grown up private and have their own lives. And it will be years before Louise and James are old enough to step up if wanted.

 

[Lady Marlboro]

It is some old law that the Queen get the custody, so it wouldn't be easy! And I am sure before they got married the Queen had to explain to her what would happen in the case of a divorce with their kids!

I know about the law but Meghan and Archie are US citizens. If they are within the borders of the United States, I am not sure the US courts would be required to honor a British law. I guess it depends on our treaties.

On another note, about their private patronages, I would think the Commonwealth Trust President/Vice President would have to go. It seems to me that one is an official position representing the Queen.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

I was the one who made the original post. In NY, sure - the lousy NY Post and Daily News will cover them as they do all “celebs”, no matter how phony. The NY Times won’t, though - not on a regular occurrence unless they are in NY, and even then it would be limited. Neither will Newsday or other papers. You really think the LA Times will have a Royal beat reporter to cover M and H if they live in LA? If they’re visiting, yes, but my point was that on an everyday, regular basis, most genuine newspapers will not be following the faux royals around....

People Magazine, Us Weekly, In Touch Weekly will still report on them.

I don’t see the Daily Mail giving up coverage- there even is a US online version and a TV show.

“Genuine” newspapers in the U.S rarely report much on them as it is.

 

[rmay286]

I can't get over the inner image of Prince Philip lying in bed in his cottage at Sandringham, knowing that all this chaos is going on and he can't control it, can't support the queen like he was used to. I hope Harry went to see him.

I find it all sad too but I wonder about what Philip's reaction was. Because we know he was ill, and some magazines said he was bed-ridden, but on the morning of the meeting at Sandringham, he was seen getting a ride on the estate with his friend Penny Brabourne. Apparently that was an hour before Harry showed up. So did he return home afterwards and see Harry? Or did he get up from bed that morning and go out purposely because he didn't want to see Harry (kind of like how he always avoids Sarah when she shows up)?

 

[poppy7]

Do you think charities care if they have Prince princess in their title??? Or businesses for that matter?? No. They want Royal patrons for the publicity they get as publicity brings attention and funding to their cause.

We saw this before. No one will be interested In their wedding, they are okay sixth in line, not like William. Wrong. No one will be interested in their baby as he is only seventh in line and that's not exciting. Wrong. People rarely care about where someone falls in line if succession. They love to gossip. For a huge chunk of the world royals aren't celebrity friends they are celebrities. The people who make the cover are not those with the midst power, but those who are exciting and sell stories.

The black prince who ran away from duties and his biracial former actress wife. The tabloids will be licking their flaws for stories for years to come. Especially when daddy is king. And that means money for pang business they are working with and publicity for any charity they are involved in.

Harry will show up in his military uniform or a suit eith his wife and son to his father's coronation. And likely many family events prior, when smoke clears.

As for the Royal charities, they don't care if Harry still is a working Royal. Many patronages are happy to have the yorks. Harry is still the son of the future king.

And Archie and any siblings will grow up normal. And like the kids of the Kents and Gloucesters, he will be a future Duke with a private life and career.

If there is any need for more slack the yorks are the obvious. Zara and Peter have grown up private and have their own lives. And it will be years before Louise and James are old enough to step up if wanted.

Well people not being interested in their wedding or Archie' s birth was a ridiculous statement. But The media will forget and the charities will care because they are only as good as the money they bring in. The York's are working royal. The support the Queen at many events. Harry no longer will be.