The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[texankitcat]

William has spent Christmas with the Middleton’s in the past, so I assume the Queen simply concluded that Meghan wanted to be with her mother on her first post-partum Christmas. I don’t think she took it personally or anything of that sort.

On your second point, I don’t think Harry is giving up his family, but, in my very humble opinion, I don’t see him adjusting welll to living a significant part of the year in Canada.

As I said before, Harry strikes me as being culturally very British and his lifestyle and social network have always been built around the UK. Anglophone Canada, on the other hand, is very North American and perhaps a poor fit for him. IF he moved to Australia or South Africa, at least he would still have rugby and cricket , but, in Canada, it will be tougher.

Yes, but now we know that their reasons for not spending the Holiday with his family was due to strain within the family and because they were relocating to Canada.

 

[Erin9]

I agree. I don't think they thought about anything other than trying to get the upper hand.

That would appear to be the case. It looks like they wanted to make their case to the public and present everything as decided.

It also speaks to how impatient they were/are to be done. They couldn’t “just” publicly say they were stepping back without informing their family in advance that they were announcing the news, they had to follow it up with their unapproved, vague vision for how that looks.

The release of that website was a PR mistake imo on many levels- they released it without talking to the family and before anything was truly settled.

More than that: there’s the content itself. It sounded very entitled. Essentially, it reads- we want financial independence, to not be full time/senior royals, to live part time in another country- and for everything we want we’ll give up 5 % of our income. But we still want all the things we really like about being royal. They weren’t suggesting that they’d really give up anything at all.

 

[texankitcat]

Is Frogmore Cottage being really shut down ? Where will Harry and Meghan’s home be ?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ans-uk-home-shut-up-and-staff-moved-elsewhere

I really don't think Meghan will be returning for any length of time other than a few weeks at most. Even if Harry spends longer periods by himself in the UK, he doesn't need a large house with staff. The best thing to do at this point if that is the case, is to release it back to the Queen's control and it can be rented. Lord knows there are plenty of rooms at Buckingham Palace and Windsor Castle should Nottingham Cottage no longer be an option.

 

[Erin9]

And at the same time this helped her being at easy when making speeches and speaking to dignitaries. Isn't being extraverted seen as a positive trait to have in the US? More at least than in Northern Europe?

I think extroverted is fine here. However- you’re expected to adapt to the company culture, whatever that is. So it depends on how you channel being an extrovert.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Is Frogmore Cottage being really shut down ? Where will Harry and Meghan’s home be ?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ans-uk-home-shut-up-and-staff-moved-elsewhere

They're just re-reporting the story the Daily Mail had yesterday. Which has no information other than permanent staff being redeployed, and ad hoc staff aren't needed at the minute.

So it's not being "shut down".

 

[Betsypaige]

It’s counter productive on every level. He was born to the most famous family in the world, not to Joe and Sally Smith. He can’t change that. If he was really so miserable with his lot in life, he could have pursued a higher education and made it clear years ago he did not want to ever become a full time Royal and wanted to pursue a career outside the BRF. If he had met and married a normal girl who wanted just him and a family and a quiet life outside media attention, then he may have had a chance for that “normalcy” he claims to want so badly. However, he met and married a woman who has spent her life wanting and craving fame. There is absolutely no denying that. She has all the fame she wants and needs now and there is no way she is going to be happy anywhere unless she is front and center of the world’s attention and the only way she can get that attention is through the media. Without media they fade away to obscurity, which would suit Harry but it would never suit Meghan.

He will never be free of media intrusion or criticism because these two will never go away and live their life as quietly as possible. It will only get worse from here and in the end Harry will find that he has traded his Royal heritage for Meghan’s ambitions and he will not be any happier. Living outside the fishbowl only makes you prey for sharks.

Read on Harry.

I doubt they would ever be able to escape into obscurity completely because he’ll always be Prince Harry, like you said. He could renounce all of his titles and styles, give up the life entirely, and he’d still be the younger son of a future King, brother to a future King and grandson to the current Queen. He wants to live a normal life, but he’s got many millions to his name because of who he is - and no doubt he and Meghan will be spending those pounds, which means the media can and will track them. So much for normal.

The only reason to read what the media has to say about you is if you’re insecure enough to care what they say.

 

[Betsypaige]

The Spectator article was written by Camilla Tominey. Tominey is an established royal reporter and the article is an analysis piece with supporting details. I don't always accept analysis pieces, but I accept much of what she is saying because I think she is onto something regarding the impact of Sir Christopher Geidt's departure and Charles' relationship with his sons.

I find her closing sentence quite ominous.

I posted about it yesterday - IF it’s true, and I think the thrust of it is because there’s been a LOT of smoke about how William and Harry don’t respect Charles (from respected media people) and how their relationship hasn’t been that good as a result. Charles is doing the best he can - if this continues, IMO it’s on Harry (William is another story)

 

[Denville]

He could achieve a reasonable bit of privacy, if he really wanted to. If he gave up Royal duties, lived quietly on his fortune, did some charity work quietly... There would always be a bit of interest but as he and Meg get older, public and press interest would decline... if they were determined to keep their life a private one.. the meida would find fresh targets

I posted about it yesterday - IF it’s true, and I think the thrust of it is because there’s been a LOT of smoke about how William and Harry don’t respect Charles (from respected media people) and how their relationship hasn’t been that good as a result. Charles is doing the best he can - if this continues, IMO it’s on Harry (William is another story)

Why is it on Harry? Charles has not much in common with his sons, and they had many years when his marriage to their mother was a very diffiuclt one... I think that as a result of that, perhaps Chas let them get their own way too much...

 

[Betsypaige]

If true, this part is telling:

This isn’t a surprise - this info came out at the time of the tributes. Between the articles then, and things I’ve read from respected media people, I believe that the relationship between Charles and his sons hasn’t been that warm...really, from their end. We’d heard before how they yell at him, don’t listen to him, just pretty much disrespect him. It’s a big reason why, apparently, Meghan encouraged Harry to get closer to his “Pa”. One part of this new article that caught my eye is the section talking of Harry running to the Queen instead of his father. What can I say? I believe this. What a shame.

How is it “telling.” The documentary was about Diana and the 20th anniversary of her death. As their parents were divorced after acrimony, there was no place for talking about Charles in that particular documentary. I can see someone like Mark Bolland asking though.

I think they could have mentioned him once, to show that after their mum’s death they at least had their father to lean on. It wouldn’t have taken much - no one was asking for an entire segment on him or even many minutes. It’s just part of an overall pattern...

 

[duchessrachel]

I don't think she will ever reappear in work terms. Maybe at family events. Someone else will live at Frogmore. There is Beatrice and one day the Cambridges. It would be best for Harry to move back to that Kensington cottage when he is working.

I agree in that I believe that she will spend very little time in the UK. In fact, I believe it will be work events she shows up for,and not family events.

 

[Betsypaige]

Meghan appears to have "shed" all aspect of royal life as soon as she left the country.

One can argue, even her titles, she never truly took any on to begin with and everything was for appearance sake only, a mirage and nothing more.

Agreed....and I have to say that if she wants to act like she’s not Royal, then she doesn’t deserve to share the benefits of being Royal. If she’s so concerned with doing good works, then let her renounce everything - and do her thing just as plain Meghan Markle.

 

[UglyAmerican]

From: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...tually-stepped-foot-Canada-womens-center.html

Gibson of the Downtown Eastside Women’s Center said she was given just 24 hours’ notice of Meghan’s plan to visit. She got an email saying that ‘someone’ would like to speak to her, giving a number to call.
‘I emailed back that I didn’t know who it was and asked for details and for them to give me a call,’ she said, admitting that she had an inkling as the number she was given started with 44 which she recognized as the international code for the United Kingdom.
She said the whole visit was arranged very quickly but was affected by bad weather that canceled ferries and threatened flights from the island. Eventually Meghan made the trip by seaplane. (End of quote).

Not sure it is believable when the Dm printed it, but it is to be proven at least that that's what the lady allegedly said...

Expecting a charity to pay international rates to call a UK number from Canada? Tacky, tacky... They should have either set up a Canadian number, or offered to call the shelter rather than the other way around. I really doubt the official royal staff was involved in this - they'd have known better.

 

[TRCRoyal]

I can't help but wonder what everyone is thinking right now. I don't think Harry and Meghan wanted to step down from all royal duties, and I don't think they'll end up losing their titles whatsoever.

I really believe the worst part of this has already happened with all the media attention and the rumours the announcement sparked. But I think the Queen has gotten this under control now and they'll work out the details that allow Harry to still be a Prince of the UK and get to live a semi-private life.


Can't help but wonder, though. Vancouver is not a normally paparazzi-heavy city. Meghan was photographed twice in 3 days, makes me wonder how the paps knew she'd be at the airport picking her friend up (and why she had to do it herself after the first time she was photographed). Also, why not lay low and not visit the shelter for a couple of weeks until things have calmed down? Or is it prove that you'll still do charity wherever you go?

Then again, maybe I'm overthinking this!

 

[Betsypaige]

I mean the fact that Charles felt he needed to ask and William refused. To me that feels like their relationship isn't as amazing as told. And no, Charles should never have asked. It wasn't about him.

He didn’t ask himself ...

 

[acdc1]

Is Frogmore Cottage being really shut down ? Where will Harry and Meghan’s home be ?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ans-uk-home-shut-up-and-staff-moved-elsewhere

This is just my personal view, but I don't think that Meghan or Archie will spend any significant time in the UK, beyond a couple of weeks here and there. I think that their home will be in Canada. Harry I could see spending a bit more time in the UK, but there are plenty of other places he could stay while there. So there's really no need for the Sussexes to have a main base in the UK like Frogmore was supposed to be. I do wonder what will happen to it- will someone like Beatrice or Eugenie move in?

 

[duchessrachel]

If I were to go about my job with hundreds of people watching and trying to find ways to tear me down, I think I might reasonably come to the conclusion that this was not the job for me.

Some people will not see the classicism, sexism and racism directed at Meghan, but oh well. It's not her job to make people understand where she's coming from. She thought the coverage would be fair, but it really wasn't. A critique is one thing, tearing someone down to sell your content is a different thing altogether.



There was SOME positive coverage. Just because the press were sometimes nice, didn't mean they weren't also on the whole, abusive.

I agree that the press was abusive, but the people were very receptive, and it is the people whom the British Royal family serve.

 

[Betsypaige]

Affectionate ridicule? So clearly the two don't respect their father....Harry running to "granny". I wish that the Queen had insisted that Harry deal wit his father. I'll also say this - when Charles is gone, they will regret how they treated their "papa".
I remember a very recent interview with Willaim where he was asked about what his mother taught him about service. He answered the question but the very quickly brought up what he had learned from Prince Charles and the King and Queen. I was very impressed to hear him speak positively about his Dad and to see him being it up. I thought to myself that he was growing up.

William especially did say nice things about his father for his 70th birthday...

 

[_Heather_]

It now appears that Rose Van Cutsem, wife of Hugh Van Cutsem who has been a longtime close friend of both Harry and William posted and then quickly removed an IG post mocking Harry and Meghan's announcement. If that's true, and I frankly believe that it is because it would be easy enough to prove (screenshots are taken of this kind of thing all the time), then it speaks volumes. There's been numerous reports of Harry dropping his old friends, etc. and if someone like Rose Van Cutsem feels like it was okay to post that then clearly there's not much of a relationship there any longer.

 

[Betsypaige]

William especially did say nice things about his father for his 70th birthday...

The release of that website was a PR mistake imo on many levels- they released it without talking to the family and before anything was truly settled.

More than that: there’s the content itself. It sounded very entitled. Essentially, it reads- we want financial independence, to not be full time/senior royals, to live part time in another country- and for everything we want we’ll give up 5 % of our income. But we still want all the things we really like about being royal. They weren’t suggesting that they’d really give up anything at all.

They also deliberately defied the Queen and Charles. Charles asked Harry not to mention this publicly until a plan had well and truly been put in place; the Queen said the same and told Harry to first discuss this with his father before having any conversations with herself

 

[duchessrachel]

I think the larger issue being that she couldn’t deal with being in a structured, restricted institution where she wasn’t able to do what she wanted. She wanted out and the media was a convenient excuse. She will absolutley face much worse if they love to America after an initial Honeymoon phase and she won’t have any protection from it.

Yes, here they will be chased and microphones put in their face. Then she will truly understand what Diana experienced from the press.

 

[Betsypaige]

Why is it on Harry? Charles has not much in common with his sons, and they had many years when his marriage to their mother was a very diffiuclt one... I think that as a result of that, perhaps Chas let them get their own way too much...

They surely share some of their father’s desire to do good - that doesn’t all come from Diana. I don’t know them personally so I can’t comment on any personal characteristics they might share. If the two boys - men - don’t respect their father, don’t listen to him (from all accounts he’s been a good father), yell at him, treat him like he’s a joke...then yes, IMO, that’s on him. William and Harry grew up to be fine young men - that’s in large part due to their father. From what I’ve read, Charles tried to give them the freedom to find their way, possibly because he had no choices in his own childhood (like being forced to go to Gourdonston).

I’m not saying Charles is perfect, lord knows he’s got flaws and faults like all of us. I’m just saying he’s done the best he can, and I feel sorry for him if he’s not got a great relationship with his sons.

 

[Denville]

They surely share some of their father’s desire to do good - that doesn’t all come from Diana. I don’t know them personally so I can’t comment on any personal characteristics they might share. If the two boys - men - don’t respect their father, don’t listen to him (from all accounts he’s been a good father), yell at him, treat him like he’s a joke...then yes, IMO, that’s on him. William and Harry grew up to be fine young men - that’s in large part due to their father. From what I’ve read, Charles tried to give them the freedom to find their way, possibly because he had no choices in his own childhood (like being forced to go to Gourdonston).

I’m not saying Charles is perfect, lord knows he’s got flaws and faults like all of us. I’m just saying he’s done the best he can, and I feel sorry for him if he’s not got a great relationship with his sons.

Its possible that they do think of him as a bit of a joke, a fussy old fuddy duddy…. but still care for him. I can't believe they have no real respect for him..though I think they do have little in common in terms of interests or general outlook.
I think that Ch DID spoil them a bit as boys because they had lost tehir mother, and he himself had not had much of a relationship with them during the bad years of the marriage. So he tired to make up for it by letting them away with too much. As a result they both were rather tiresome Hooray Henries for a time. I think WIlliam grew out of it and found Kate and got married.. but Harry took longer to grow out of the spoiled phase. However I wonder about H.. he seems to have changed radcially from the young man he was in army days to what he's like now.. He's become this heavyily sierous "new Man" which makes you wonder "has he always had this heavy serious over emotional side" or has Meghan changed him>?

 

[Erin9]

Yes, here they will be chased and microphones put in their face. Then she will truly understand what Diana experienced from the press.

She’s already getting photographed on “off” time. So possibly since they’re changing the rules, the media will too.

 

[duchessrachel]

William especially did say nice things about his father for his 70th birthday...

The first part of my statement should not have been there. It was part of a quote that I incorrectly published because my cursor was in the wrong place. My statement began a few lines down with "I remember..." I just wanted to clarify. Thank you. William does, I believe, appreciate his father and will probably grow even closer to him due to this recent crisis.

 

[Betsypaige]

Its possible that they do think of him as a bit of a joke, a fussy old fuddy duddy…. but still care for him. I can't believe they have no real respect for him..though I think they do have little in common in terms of interests or general outlook.
I think that Ch DID spoil them a bit as boys because they had lost tehir mother, and he himself had not had much of a relationship with them during the bad years of the marriage.

I never read that he didn’t have much of a relationship during the stormy years, but actually that he and Diana had always agree about putting the boys first. I think they probably resent him - a lot has been said about this - for not being around as much as they wanted or needed him to, and I believe he regrets this. It almost feels like he was repeating the same cycle he grew up with - we know his parents weren’t around much when he was a boy.

 

[Denville]

She’s already getting photographed on “off” time. So possibly since they’re changing the rules, the media will too.

As Diana found out when she dropped her royal duties as a regular thng.. and her RPOs, if the press don't get a recognised time when they can photograph you, they'll photograph you any time they can. THey will say that if they can't have legitimate access, they will grab at any access they can get. However does Meghan care about that?

I never read that he didn’t have much of a relationship during the stormy years, but actually that he and Diana had always agree about putting the boys first. I think they probably resent him - a lot has been said about this - for not being around as much as they wanted or needed him to, and I believe he regrets this. It almost feels like he was repeating the same cycle he grew up with - we know his parents weren’t around much when he was a boy.

During the bad years of the marriage, increasingly I think that he saw less fo the boys. He was busy with his work, he had Camilla and he and Di could hardly bear to be in he same place at times. So I can't believe that they were all that close.. plus the boys realised he was making their beloved mother unhappy...
Then when Diana died, he took them on, and tried ot make up for her loss but he was still a workaholic and spent a lot of time at his work, so they may have felt that he still didn't give them that much real attention though he did his best...

 

[texankitcat]

They surely share some of their father’s desire to do good - that doesn’t all come from Diana. I don’t know them personally so I can’t comment on any personal characteristics they might share. If the two boys - men - don’t respect their father, don’t listen to him (from all accounts he’s been a good father), yell at him, treat him like he’s a joke...then yes, IMO, that’s on him. William and Harry grew up to be fine young men - that’s in large part due to their father. From what I’ve read, Charles tried to give them the freedom to find their way, possibly because he had no choices in his own childhood (like being forced to go to Gourdonston).

I’m not saying Charles is perfect, lord knows he’s got flaws and faults like all of us. I’m just saying he’s done the best he can, and I feel sorry for him if he’s not got a great relationship with his sons.

I think it's obvious that William and Harry are not going to have the same respect towards their father as the do towards their Grandmother who is with head of the family and the Queen. They have grown up knowing that her decision is the final decision as head of the family and as the Monarch. Their father is their father and they have a completely different relationship with him as most children do with their parents. As Charle's was very young when his mother ascended the throne, he was put in a very different position as a child than Willian and Harry have experienced, so I don't think Charles would ever "talk back: to this mother, but I can certainly see William and Harry talking back to him and expressing their views and disagreements very openly. Bottom line is until Charles becomes King, the Queen has the last say in decisions involving the family even if she isn't keen to take that position at times.

 

[Denville]

. Their father is their father and they have a completely different relationship with him as most children do with their parents. As Charle's was very young when his mother ascended the throne, he was put in a very different position as a child than Willian and Harry have experienced, so I don't think Charles would ever "talk back: to this mother, but I can certainly see William and Harry talking back to him and expressing their views and disagreements very openly. Bottom line is until Charles becomes King, the Queen has the last say in decisions involving the family even if she isn't keen to take that position at times.

still according to some reports, when Charlres told Harry to put his request in writing, Harry wen to the queen. And couriters tried to keep H from meeting his grandmother because they feared she'd be too soft with him?

 

[Pranter]

They also deliberately defied the Queen and Charles. Charles asked Harry not to mention this publicly until a plan had well and truly been put in place; the Queen said the same and told Harry to first discuss this with his father before having any conversations with herself

We do not know what Charles said. We just know what the tabloids have said.


LaRae

 

[Mbruno]

I think it's obvious that William and Harry are not going to have the same respect towards their father as the do towards their Grandmother who is with head of the family and the Queen. They have grown up knowing that her decision is the final decision as head of the family and as the Monarch. Their father is their father and they have a completely different relationship with him as most children do with their parents. As Charle's was very young when his mother ascended the throne, he was put in a very different position as a child than Willian and Harry have experienced, so I don't think Charles would ever "talk back: to this mother, but I can certainly see William and Harry talking back to him and expressing their views and disagreements very openly. Bottom line is until Charles becomes King, the Queen has the last say in decisions involving the family even if she isn't keen to take that position at times.

But Charles will be King and head of the family eventually and will also hold the keys to the family’s money. I can’t see how they cannot take him seriously or respect him.