The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[Denville]

Harry was not the most academically gifted, so the idea of higher education would only have taken him so far!

well precisely. I don't think he was likely to find it a possible escape avenue. I can't decide wehter Meghan wanted out from the time she was in.. or if she really did mean well and then found that England and royal life was not what she had expected or wanted to be involved with.

 

[hel]

Patricia Treble raises an interesting question:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1217775008023568384

 

[wyevale]

Poor Harry doesn't seem to have a stable self-identity. He becomes the image of his current lived environment.

Royal/not Royal - Army/not Army - Global Sleb/not Global Sleb...

 

[Kataryn]

The Duchess of Gloucester is Danish. Don't know if she has dual nationality.

She is British. Don't know if she still has her Danish nationality.



A quote from the Duchess: "it is one of the major aspects which makes me very proud to be British."


from: https://www.royal.uk/the-duchess-of-gloucester (the official portrait of the Duchess on the homepage of the BRF).

Patricia Treble raises an interesting question:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1217775008023568384

The call came from the Uk, the manager of the shelter said to the Daily Mail.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

The call came from the Uk, the manager of the shelter said to the Daily Mail.

Why is the manager of the shelter talking to the Daily Mail? I would have thought Meghan would have warned them against talking to the British press.

 

[Elenath]

The Spectator article was written by Camilla Tominey. Tominey is an established royal reporter and the article is an analysis piece with supporting details. I don't always accept analysis pieces, but I accept much of what she is saying because I have think she is onto something regarding the impact Sir Christopher Geidt's departure and Charles' relationship with his sons.

I find her closing sentence quite ominous.

If true, this part is telling:

Charles’s aides asked William to praise his father’s role in the boys’ upbringing when the brothers appeared in documentaries to mark the 20th anniversary of their mother’s death.

 

[evolvingdoors]

Harry was not the most academically gifted, so the idea of higher education would only have taken him so far!

Emotional and psychological traumas can cause serious mental health issues causing even the smartest person to fail at school - this I write from personal experience, my father death at a young age impacted my academic abilities to the point I dropped out of the traditional school system.
FYI I was labeled a genius and was offered a spot at a school for the gifted.

I always felt that once he found a vocation that he loved he would have given it his all. To me he always seemed perfectly suited for teaching and or counseling work of some sort. This chase for a life of paparazzi and glitz and glamour disguised as charity work... that’s not what he deeply, imo, craves for.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

If true, this part is telling:

How is it “telling.” The documentary was about Diana and the 20th anniversary of her death. As their parents were divorced after acrimony, there was no place for talking about Charles in that particular documentary. I can see someone like Mark Bolland asking though.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Why is the manager of the shelter talking to the Daily Mail? I would have thought Meghan would have warned them against talking to the British press.

Warning or not, that doesn't mean they can't talk to people should they wish. Meghan has no issue with them publicising the event on their social media.

Meghan appears to have "shed" all aspect of royal life as soon as she left the country.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Warning or not, that doesn't mean they can't talk to people should they wish. Meghan has no issue with them publicising the event on their social media.

Meghan appears to have "shed" all aspect of royal life as soon as she left the country.

True, but now that they have talked to the Daily Mail-will that be the first & last the shelter sees her?

 

[Lumutqueen]

True, but now that they have talked to the Daily Mail-will that be the first & last the shelter sees her?

I agree, it's a dangerous play. You said it yourself however, why didn't Meghan warn her not to speak?

If there was no warning, maybe she was given the opposite, to speak about the event for the sake of publicity.

We are of course, talking in hypotheticals.

 

[Alison H]

Harry's relationships with Chelsy Davy and Cressida Bonas, which were both very serious - he was with Chelsy for 6 years - would probably have led to marriage had he not been a prince, but there never seemed to be any question of his giving up his royal role to live quietly somewhere with either of them. We can't know if the subject ever came up, but, given what they've both said about feeling that royal life wasn't for them, I doubt it.

 

[evolvingdoors]

Warning or not, that doesn't mean they can't talk to people should they wish. Meghan has no issue with them publicising the event on their social media.

Meghan appears to have "shed" all aspect of royal life as soon as she left the country.

One can argue, even her titles, she never truly took any on to begin with and everything was for appearance sake only, a mirage and nothing more.

 

[hel]

The call came from the Uk, the manager of the shelter said to the Daily Mail.

I've looked and can't find that; the stories I've seen say it came in an email from a Hotmail account.



Can you please provide a link?

 

[Elenath]

How is it “telling.” The documentary was about Diana and the 20th anniversary of her death. As their parents were divorced after acrimony, there was no place for talking about Charles in that particular documentary. I can see someone like Mark Bolland asking though.

I mean the fact that Charles felt he needed to ask and William refused. To me that feels like their relationship isn't as amazing as told. And no, Charles should never have asked. It wasn't about him.

 

[texankitcat]

True, but now that they have talked to the Daily Mail-will that be the first & last the shelter sees her?

Good question. What was her purpose for visiting the shelter to begin with? To offer support? In what capacity? She is not a Canadian Citizen and cannot work on behalf or promote the charity as a Royal Duchess, so what exactly was the visit supposed to do for the charity? The Canadian laws seem clear about Royals coming to their country and what they may and may not do, so does this visit fall in line with those laws/rules? I am confused....

 

[ladongas]

If this is what Harry wants to do...

...why shouldn’t he do it? It is his life, and he can live it as he sees fit. He’s not the son (or grandson) of a shady dictator who is obliged to carry out orders until the day he dies, like it or not.

None of us expect our grown children to march in lockstep with us and our careers/lifestyles, no matter how much we’ve done for them financially.

While many would wish for Harry to carry on with a stiff upper lip for the next 60 years, he doesn’t have to do it, no matter how disappointed his family and “fans” are. This is his life, and he’s the one who will live it.

His father and grandmother will figure out the details about finances and security and titles. But he has no holy obligation to live a life he doesn’t love.

 

[Kataryn]

I've looked and can't find that; the stories I've seen say it came in an email from a Hotmail account.



Can you please provide a link?

Yes, I can.


From: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...tually-stepped-foot-Canada-womens-center.html


Gibson of the Downtown Eastside Women’s Center said she was given just 24 hours’ notice of Meghan’s plan to visit. She got an email saying that ‘someone’ would like to speak to her, giving a number to call.
‘I emailed back that I didn’t know who it was and asked for details and for them to give me a call,’ she said, admitting that she had an inkling as the number she was given started with 44 which she recognized as the international code for the United Kingdom.
She said the whole visit was arranged very quickly but was affected by bad weather that canceled ferries and threatened flights from the island. Eventually Meghan made the trip by seaplane. (End of quote).


Not sure it is believable when the Dm printed it, but it is to be proven at least that that's what the lady allegedly said...

 

[suztav]

Once again, I think people need to consider it’s how H&M “rolled out” their wishes not the fact that this is their desired lifestyle. Sorry, but they both should have been more sensitive to and respectful of QEII and the monarchy not act like two entitled brats.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I mean the fact that Charles felt he needed to ask and William refused. To me that feels like their relationship isn't as amazing as told. And no, Charles should never have asked. It wasn't about him.

You use the word “fact” as if the Camilla Tominey was telling the truth....

 

[Elenath]

You use the word “fact” as if the Camilla Tominey was telling the truth....

Which is why in my first post I said "if it's true".

 

[chlban]

Once again, I think people need to consider it’s how H&M “rolled out” their wishes not the fact that this is their desired lifestyle. Sorry, but they both should have been more sensitive to and respectful of QEII and the monarchy not act like two entitled brats.

I so agree with this. The total disrespect for the Queen is appalling, In my opinion. I thought their refusal to spend Christmas was bad enough. Here is the thing. Forcing or manipulating someone who loves you, to give up something else they love, never ends well. One can argue that Harry is not giving up the family, of course, but he has dealt them a painful blow. He is, by all reports, a sensitive soul, so I cannot imagine it was easy for him. Obviously the remaining lives of both the Queen and Prince Phillip is short, based on their ages alone. How is he going to feel when they are gone?

 

[Mbruno]

I so agree with this. The total disrespect for the Queen is appalling, In my opinion. I thought their refusal to spend Christmas was bad enough. Here is the thing. Forcing or manipulating someone who loves you, to give up something else they love, never ends well. One can argue that Harry is not giving up the family, of course, but he has dealt them a painful blow. He is, by all reports, a sensitive soul, so I cannot imagine it was easy for him. Obviously the remaining lives of both the Queen and Prince Phillip is short, based on their ages alone. How is he going to feel when they are gone?

William has spent Christmas with the Middleton’s in the past, so I assume the Queen simply concluded that Meghan wanted to be with her mother on her first post-partum Christmas. I don’t think she took it personally or anything of that sort.

On your second point, I don’t think Harry is giving up his family, but, in my very humble opinion, I don’t see him adjusting welll to living a significant part of the year in Canada.

As I said before, Harry strikes me as being culturally very British and his lifestyle and social network have always been built around the UK. Anglophone Canada, on the other hand, is very North American and perhaps a poor fit for him. IF he moved to Australia or South Africa, at least he would still have rugby and cricket , but, in Canada, it will be tougher.

 

[Tsarinya]

Good question. What was her purpose for visiting the shelter to begin with? To offer support? In what capacity? She is not a Canadian Citizen and cannot work on behalf or promote the charity as a Royal Duchess, so what exactly was the visit supposed to do for the charity? The Canadian laws seem clear about Royals coming to their country and what they may and may not do, so does this visit fall in line with those laws/rules? I am confused....

Apparently it was 'offer support' and 'boost the staff's spirits'. The cynic in me thinks it might have been more of a PR move on Meghan’s part. But if the staff have been empowered by her visit then that’s a positive outcome for everyone.

 

[duchessrachel]

Oh wow, this just makes me so sad. I'm not liking either Harry or William at this point.

Affectionate ridicule? So clearly the two don't respect their father....Harry running to "granny". I wish that the Queen had insisted that Harry deal wit his father. I'll also say this - when Charles is gone, they will regret how they treated their "papa".



https://www.spectator.co.uk/2020/01...yal-conflict-is-between-charles-and-his-sons/

I remember a very recent interview with Willaim where he was asked about what his mother taught him about service. He answered the question but the very quickly brought up what he had learned from Prince Charles and the King and Queen. I was very impressed to hear him speak positively about his Dad and to see him being it up. I thought to myself that he was growing up.

 

[Lilyflo]

At the heart of the problem, IMO, is the issue that I raised a while ago. I just do not think Meghan was ever going to be happy being in a supporting role in the BRF. And whilst there may have been issues with the press (which, IMO, was not insurmountable), my guess is that she quickly realised that being married to the 6th in line to the throne was not all it was cut out to be. The rest is just details.

Some of it is about personality types I think and in order to be happy within the BRF, you have to accept your position within it. While Meghan could probably deal with that in ceremonial terms (walking behind the Cambridges, curtseying to the Queen etc) she's probably found it much harder to accept a restriction on her activities. She's a leader not a follower & used to working at her own pace, directing her own projects & making all her own decisions. This would probably be a challenge for anyone in their mid 30s, let alone one who is already experienced in working with charities & highlighting causes. She's used to the camera & she enjoys publicity, which is helpful in some respects but there's a fine line between being able to cope with it and being self-promoting. I won't name them of course but amongst the relatives of current BRF members, there are some who appear to court publicity for themselves, who revel in the light shining on them and it shows to an extent that the public don't like. Maybe it's a cultural thing but it's a very old fashioned British quality to abhor anything "show-offy".

I've said before that I think it would have been better if Meghan had been a bit more reserved to start with rather than the notion she was going to "hit the ground running". She'd captured a prince's heart but it takes a lot longer to earn the respect of a nation & that should have been planned far better to introduce her slowly, let her be seen supporting others & very gradually build her own work. I don't know if this was advised & ignored or not advised at all. I suspect the former, which has caused tensions.

A lot of the press coverage has been dreadful, particularly the lies & the sheer volume of criticism, which must have been a nightmare to cope with...

As regards Harry, I think he has always craved emotional security, and Meghan was probably the first person who could provided it to him after growing up. However, my guess is that he was always concerned that she may decide it is all too much for her and that is why he rushed into the marriage. Following the marriage, and with this backdrop of emotional dependence on her, I just do not think he could lay down the boundaries in the relationship, and allowed himself to be alienated from his family, as is now clear, the only life he has known.

I agree he rushed into the marriage but I think the desire for children probably played a big part in that, given Meghan's age. Had she been 10 years younger, I think he'd have courted her for longer. I also agree that he's lacked emotional security & she's provided that for him. I don't know about the boundaries or whether she's alienated him. He spoke before about wanting to get out or walk away so we can't be sure of the dynamics of who did the pushing or pulling.

 

[Purrs]

Good question. What was her purpose for visiting the shelter to begin with? To offer support? In what capacity? She is not a Canadian Citizen and cannot work on behalf or promote the charity as a Royal Duchess, so what exactly was the visit supposed to do for the charity? The Canadian laws seem clear about Royals coming to their country and what they may and may not do, so does this visit fall in line with those laws/rules? I am confused....

Actually it does... as long she doesn't get paid, our Canadian laws don't forbid her visit or "promoting" the shelter. Earning money from promoting (or any other way of earning money) is forbidden because she doesn't have permanent residency status. (You can earn money without Canadian citizenship, that's not necessary but permanent residency or a work permit is a must before you can earn money. She has neither now and therefore can't earn money as a visitor.) She is free to visit anywhere she wishes with their permission (as anyone else would be) and "promote" this shelter as long as she doesn't get paid.

As far as purpose goes, I personally think this visit was to get positive PR and attention for herself and perhaps counteract some of the criticism she's gotten. She wasn't there long enough to do any volunteer work (which would be allowed as it's unpaid). IMHO, this visit was very self serving.

 

[duchessrachel]

I'd like to know what they're intending to do about staff. I honestly haven't got a clue how many people they employ, and I appreciate that a lot of work can be done remotely these days, but most people are not going to want to be rushing backwards and forwards between the UK and Western Canada - people have families and friends and interests and commitments.


I don't think there's any question of removing their titles. If they agreed to renounce them, that would be different, but actually removing them would seem pretty hostile, and be an embarrassment for the Royal Family. And the government does not want to get involved in this - both the British and Canadian governments have other, urgent matters to deal with.

I agree. I don't think they thought about anything other than trying to get the upper hand.

There is a lot about this situation I don't like and don't understand - like why loving parents left their 8 month old son in a foreign country. I think they need to realize that there are consequences to their actions and they can't get everything they want. However, I don't think they will lose the title or the HRH because I think deep down in their heart of hearts Charles and William are hoping that maybe one day Harry will come back.

I think he will come back eventually.

 

[Elenath]

I've said before that I think it would have been better if Meghan had been a bit more reserved to start with rather than the notion she was going to "hit the ground running".

And at the same time this helped her being at easy when making speeches and speaking to dignitaries. Isn't being extraverted seen as a positive trait to have in the US? More at least than in Northern Europe?

 

[Mbruno]

Is Frogmore Cottage being really shut down ? Where will Harry and Meghan’s home be ?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ans-uk-home-shut-up-and-staff-moved-elsewhere