The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[Sionevar]

I have no problem if Harry and Meghan want to come live in Canada - all I ask is that they follow the proper procedure. No special treatment, no queue jumping, and if they apply for Permanent Residence, they must meet the points requirement.

For ordinary people, it is a long and tedious process to obtain Canadian permanent residence or citizenship. It used to be relatively quick, but I understand the process has bogged down due to budget cuts and volume, and now takes several years.

As someone who has gone through both the PR and citizenship processes, and who had to wait for what felt like forever for the Canadian government to deal with their application, I would be extremely annoyed if H+M were given special, fast-track treatment.

I know it will probably happen. But it shouldn't.

 

[Lumutqueen]

It would have been so easy to step back by officially announcing that the BRF needs to be slimmed down. Everything could have been worked out and everybody would have been happy for Harry as everyone knows he always struggeld with his role.

Why on earth did they choose this way? It's a mystery to me.

Issue is the BRF does not need to slim down. Henry and Meghan are needed for at least another 20+ years if they wanted to maintain the same level of engagements the royal family does now.

 

[_Heather_]

I cannot see this. Death is the risk if life, and in any other family with elderly some will not be able to stick with them any time left, that is a normal process. society is far away from what is was or could be. any working commoner can't spend days or weeks with their grandparents so why should Harry feel obliged to?
And the elderly still have themselves and in case of HM a job to do, so why should she choose to spend hr free time with exactly one, Harry, grandson-absurd idea.

I'm not sure that anyone was implying that Harry should stick to the Duke like glue for whatever time he may have left, which, let's face it, could still be years. We aren't privy to his medical information. But at 98 it's inevitable that at some point within the next, roughly five years more or less, he will no longer be around. That's just simply a fact. I think what people are saying is that at 98 nothing is guaranteed and that it would be a shame if the last interactions between Harry and his grandfather revolved around all of this nonsense with hurt feelings, anger, annoyance, disappointment, and stubbornness controlling the interaction. I can only speak for myself but I don't expect Harry to spend every moment of his time at his grandfather's side from now until he's gone simply because that isn't healthy or realistic. What is realistic is to hope that he's able to visit with his grandfather and spend some time with him both on his own and with Archie in order to create some good memories and some positive times rather than being left with that awful feeling of regret when the time is up.

 

[Betsypaige]

I cannot see this. Death is the risk if life, and in any other family with elderly some will not be able to stick with them any time left, that is a normal process. society is far away from what is was or could be. any working commoner can't spend days or weeks with their grandparents so why should Harry feel obliged to?
And the elderly still have themselves and in case of HM a job to do, so why should she choose to spend hr free time with exactly one, Harry, grandson-absurd idea.

I'm not saying he should devote all his time to his family, but skipping out on, say, Christmas as Sandringham, is not a good thing. I said "as much as possible", NOT ALL their time.

Thanks for not understanding my point and calling it absurd

I'm not sure that anyone was implying that Harry should stick to the Duke like glue for whatever time he may have left, which, let's face it, could still be years. We aren't privy to his medical information. But at 98 it's inevitable that at some point within the next, roughly five years more or less, he will no longer be around. That's just simply a fact. I think what people are saying is that at 98 nothing is guaranteed and that it would be a shame if the last interactions between Harry and his grandfather revolved around all of this nonsense with hurt feelings, anger, annoyance, disappointment, and stubbornness controlling the interaction. I can only speak for myself but I don't expect Harry to spend every moment of his time at his grandfather's side from now until he's gone simply because that isn't healthy or realistic. What is realistic is to hope that he's able to visit with his grandfather and spend some time with him both on his own and with Archie in order to create some good memories and some positive times rather than being left with that awful feeling of regret when the time is up.

YES, that's exactly what I meant.....

 

[Princess]

Lumutqueen, thanks. Regarding that point of view...
Maye I should not compare with other monarchies.

 

[Sionevar]

They do not need permission "to visit", but visiting is very different from being a permanent resident. Could a "permanent visitor" work for example or run a business ? Maybe Canada is just an interim solution after all as the statement may suggest.

A visitor is basically a tourist. You can stay in the country for up to 6 months, but you cannot engage in any activity that requires legal residence e.g. work, open a bank account, register to receive Canadian health care.

It would be doable, but tricky - lots of restrictions to work around or to have a backup plan for.

 

[yvr girl]

I have no problem if Harry and Meghan want to come live in Canada - all I ask is that they follow the proper procedure. No special treatment, no queue jumping, and if they apply for Permanent Residence, they must meet the points requirement.

For ordinary people, it is a long and tedious process to obtain Canadian permanent residence or citizenship. It used to be relatively quick, but I understand the process has bogged down due to budget cuts and volume, and now takes several years.

As someone who has gone through both the PR and citizenship processes, and who had to wait for what felt like forever for the Canadian government to deal with their application, I would be extremely annoyed if H+M were given special, fast-track treatment.

I know it will probably happen. But it shouldn't.

That's an interesting perspective. I personally don't care if they get a fast-tracked status in Canada. Security issues aside they won't be a drain on Canada. They won't be taking anyone's job etc. I'm a citizen from birth. I know Canada needs immigrants. I never thought about it from the perspective of someone who worked hard to obtain Canadian status.

 

[Purrs]

I would be shocked if Trudeau actually said that Canada would pick up the tab for their security. It would never fly with Canadians, not in a billion, million ,trazillion years would they happily accept it.

The press here in Canada are NOT saying this. They are reporting that who pays for the security is still undecided.from Toronto star:

"The question of who foots the bill for their security detail may also come up. On their website, Harry and Meghan note that the provision of armed security is mandated by the British Home Office. But if the couple spends much of their time overseas, British taxpayers may balk at paying for their security.

So-called working royals representing the queen full-time at ceremonies and charities get their protection paid for by the state. But junior royals, such as Prince Andrew’s daughter, Beatrice and Eugenie, pay their own way."

BTW our press are mostly focused on the aircraft that was shot down in Iran, the families of the Canadians killed and our request for compensation to the families from Iran.

 

[QueenMathilde]

This is a good article to read.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/articl...ton-double-standards-royal?scrlybrkr=7992c02e

Not really - Buzzfeed knows nothing about the royals and only started following them (and barely at that) when Meghan showed up. You could fit what they know about the royals in a thimble. There were countless headlines about "Waity Kaity", her mother the "Trolly Dolly", her drunk Uncle Gary and how much money Kate was spending before Meghan showed up. They ran pictures of her skirt blowing up in the wind and private pictures of her bathing topless on vacation in France. Meghan should have gone to her about the negative coverage if she wanted sympathy. Or to Andrew's daughters - they called them Cinderella's ugly steps sisters and went on for weeks about the hat Beatrice wore to William's wedding. They gave their own tearful interview about how mean the media was to them. And there were equally negative headlines about the "love of Harry's life" Chelsy Davy. See the people saying "poor Meghan" only recently showed up and didn't see the negative coverage of everyone else in the royal family. I'd say Camilla has gotten the worse coverage - like I said earlier they threw bread rolls at her in the grocery store and played private phone conversations of Charles saying he wanted to be Camilla's tampon. They treat Meghan with kid gloves by comparison. No what Buzzfeed and her supporters wanted was NO negative coverage of Meghan. Not even the queen herself gets that.


I'd also say she's going to get worse coverage without the bubble wrap protection of Buckingham Palace. If she was looking for good media coverage she should have skipped marrying a member of the royal family and married a nice Silicon Valley billionaire. Diana got horrible coverage before she died.

 

[Purrs]

That's an interesting perspective. I personally don't care if they get a fast-tracked status in Canada. Security issues aside they won't be a drain on Canada. They won't be taking anyone's job etc. I'm a citizen from birth. I know Canada needs immigrants. I never thought about it from the perspective of someone who worked hard to obtain Canadian status.

I agree with the poster you are replying to. I do care & I'd object. Although I'm a Canadian citizen who was born and raised here, I have 2 family members who were both immigrants (one parent and my son-in-law). In particular my son-in-law and daughter worked darn hard (she applied as his spousal sponsor) to get his permanent residency status and were in limbo over 3 years waiting for approval of her application on his behalf. During that waiting period, he could not work legally or use public healthcare. My daughter's member of parliament told her that of 90% of his requests for assistance from constitutents were related to immigration.

IMO, most Canadians who were born here don't know how difficult and the process involved to acquire permanent residency status. Unless we've seen it through people we know, we tend to take our immigration process for granted and don't realize how stringent it and time consuming it is. They also take citizenship for granted. (Although as I've pointed out you don't need Canadian citizenship to legally live here permanently although it gives you a few more rights than permanent residents.)

In Toronto (the largest city) now, the majority of residents were not born in Canada. (over 50% now). Vancouver also has a very high proportion of residents not born in Canada. Many people in Canada are immigrants themselves or have family members were were and therefore it would go over very poorly on any government who gave the Sussexes special treatment.

 

[Sionevar]

"The question of who foots the bill for their security detail may also come up. On their website, Harry and Meghan note that the provision of armed security is mandated by the British Home Office. But if the couple spends much of their time overseas, British taxpayers may balk at paying for their security.

So-called working royals representing the queen full-time at ceremonies and charities get their protection paid for by the state. But junior royals, such as Prince Andrew’s daughter, Beatrice and Eugenie, pay their own way."

This is very interesting - thank you.

Can anyone advise - why does the British Home Office mandate armed security for Harry, but not for Beatrice and Eugenie? They are all the sovereign's grandchildren. Is it because Harry is higher up in the line of succession? Or is it because he served in Afghanistan, and they are worried about a reprisal attack?

If Harry and Meghan step away, would they not change from being full-time royals to part-time royals? That being the case, should they not then pay for their own security?

Genuinely curious to understand the precise reasoning...

 

[moby]

The statement sounds like the couple is quitting the family, not the work. So personal and not at all officious. The “my family” emphasis sounds like a plea to understand that this is a family issue as much as an official one.

I am curious about the period of transition referred to though. Transition to what? A life divided successfully between two continents? Living in Canada? Out of royal life? Seems like that’s leading to something big and final.

 

[Lumutqueen]

A visitor is basically a tourist. You can stay in the country for up to 6 months, but you cannot engage in any activity that requires legal residence e.g. work, open a bank account, register to receive Canadian health care.

It would be doable, but tricky - lots of restrictions to work around or to have a backup plan for.

So they can't be visitors then, on a visitors visa...

The press here in Canada are NOT saying this. They are reporting that who pays for the security is still undecided.from Toronto star:

Something that popped into my head after Trudeaus "announcement" is that what's to stop the next Prime Minister removing his "promise"? It's hardly going to be enshrined in law, or is it?

This is very interesting - thank you.

Can anyone advise - why does the British Home Office mandate armed security for Harry, but not for Beatrice and Eugenie? They are all the sovereign's grandchildren. Is it because Harry is higher up in the line of succession? Or is it because he served in Afghanistan, and they are worried about a reprisal attack?

Beatrice and Eugenie are not working members of the royal family. Any security required is paid for by their father, if any is required at all.

 

[wyevale]

Seems like that’s leading to something big and final.

I do hope so...then 'those most affected' , and the rest of us can proceed with our lives without pathetic 'me,me,me' whining from two deeply self centred people.

 

[QueenMathilde]

Who said anything about Canadian citizenship??

I don't think they'd apply for Canadian Citizenship. For one I don't think Meghan can be a citizen of three countries - someone else can correct me if I'm wrong. And Harry was always more interested in moving to somewhere in Africa - this whole "Canada/LA" thing sounds like Meghan's idea. What happens if they get divorced which sort of seems likely? Harry will have a citizenship he doesn't want. Plus they will have to pay taxes in two countries. Their finances will be a matter of public record.


No I think they'd go the "work visa" route. And really what sort of work is Harry going to do? He's never held a job. Meghan will be the one working.

 

[Sionevar]

Beatrice and Eugenie are not working members of the royal family. Any security required is paid for by their father, if any is required at all.

But if Harry and Meghan step away to live privately in Canada for six months of the year, would they still be 'working members' during that time?

And I know nobody has the definitive answer yet - we will have to wait and see what details emerge in the coming weeks and months.

 

[Mbruno]

So they can't be visitors then, on a visitors visa...

If I understood it correctly, what the Canadian minister said to the CBC is that, as members of the RF, they don't need a visitor's visa. Basically, they can visit whenever they want without asking for permission to enter the country.


As the OP said, however, as visitors they cannot work, or open a bank account, or use the Canadian NHS, or do other similar things. So it won't work for their long-term plans.

Something that popped into my head after Trudeaus "announcement" is that what's to stop the next Prime Minister removing his "promise"? It's hardly going to be enshrined in law, or is it?

Trudeau has just been reelected for a second term, but he is leading a minority government which may not last the full parliament. The main opposition, however, is the Conservative Party of Canada (the Canadian Tories), which is normally a very pro-monarchy party. I don't see them taking away security from Harry and Meghan, but I may be wrong.



In any case, as far as I understand, Canadian police normally protects visiting British royals on royal tours. If they are going to spin H&M's status as "permanent visitors" as a previous poster suggested, permanent protection won't be a stretch. But that is up to the Canadian government to work out.

 

[Purrs]

They do not need permission "to visit", but visiting is very different from being a permanent resident. Could a "permanent visitor" work for example or run a business ? Maybe Canada is just an interim solution after all as the statement may suggest.

Actually you can't work or run a business as a visitor in Canada legally at all.

There is no such thing as a "permanent visitor". You could stay as a visitor for 5 months, leave and come back for 5 months repeatedly (which may be is what they plan to do)m but you can't make money or run a business here as a visitor. Perhaps this is what they are planning to do for the immediate future.

 

[ashelen]

Didn't the younger son of the Queen and his wife wanted to quit at one point? I think he was working in his own project and after the Queen convinced him and his wife to be full time royals?
We are not inside their circle so we can not see a lot of things that may be happening behind doors. But from outside I can see a social climber that got what she wanted, the prince, to be a princess, the money and the power. But may be she did not expect the life of a royal to be as it was and convince him to quit and get a more "normal" life that I am sure would be something that Harry would love to have. He has a lot of money from his mother, his great grandmother, and now they can make even more money. Who knows...….time will tell...…..She strike me as someone, she gets what she wants her way or the highway.

 

[Sionevar]

I don't think they'd apply for Canadian Citizenship. For one I don't think Meghan can be a citizen of three countries - someone else can correct me if I'm wrong. And Harry was always more interested in moving to somewhere in Africa - this whole "Canada/LA" thing sounds like Meghan's idea. What happens if they get divorced which sort of seems likely? Harry will have a citizenship he doesn't want. Plus they will have to pay taxes in two countries. Their finances will be a matter of public record.

I know someone here in Canada who is a citizen of Canada, the US and New Zealand. I believe you can hold as many citizenships as you want, as long as all of the countries involved allow it.

I can't imagine what the tax/residency issues would look like, though. Especially if one of the citizenships is for the US.

 

[Mbruno]

Actually you can't work or run a business as a visitor in Canada legally at all.

There is no such thing as a "permanent visitor". You could stay as a visitor for 5 months, leave and come back for 5 months repeatedly (which may be is what they plan to do)m but you can't make money or run a business here as a visitor. Perhaps this is what they are planning to do for the immediate future.

I know. "Permanent visitor" is a term that the previous poster (to whom I was replying) used to indicate how the government might be spinning H&M's staying in the country.


As far as their business is concerned, they may run it from the UK or from the US, or both.

 

[Zaira]

Not really - Buzzfeed knows nothing about the royals and only started following them (and barely at that) when Meghan showed up. You could fit what they know about the royals in a thimble. There were countless headlines about "Waity Kaity", her mother the "Trolly Dolly", her drunk Uncle Gary and how much money Kate was spending before Meghan showed up. They ran pictures of her skirt blowing up in the wind and private pictures of her bathing topless on vacation in France. Meghan should have gone to her about the negative coverage if she wanted sympathy. Or to Andrew's daughters - they called them Cinderella's ugly steps sisters and went on for weeks about the hat Beatrice wore to William's wedding. They gave their own tearful interview about how mean the media was to them. And there were equally negative headlines about the "love of Harry's life" Chelsy Davy. See the people saying "poor Meghan" only recently showed up and didn't see the negative coverage of everyone else in the royal family. I'd say Camilla has gotten the worse coverage - like I said earlier they threw bread rolls at her in the grocery store and played private phone conversations of Charles saying he wanted to be Camilla's tampon. They treat Meghan with kid gloves by comparison. No what Buzzfeed and her supporters wanted was NO negative coverage of Meghan. Not even the queen herself gets that.


I'd also say she's going to get worse coverage without the bubble wrap protection of Buckingham Palace. If she was looking for good media coverage she should have skipped marrying a member of the royal family and married a nice Silicon Valley billionaire. Diana got horrible coverage before she died.

Did you even read the article? Not that you have to but it would maybe help...

And there is no point in rehashing the who had it worse. But again, I've been a royal watcher for way too long including during the early Kate years. What I've seen Meghan go through has been shocking even to me and I am pretty hard nosed and jaded about the media.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

Actually you can't work or run a business as a visitor in Canada legally at all.

There is no such thing as a "permanent visitor". You could stay as a visitor for 5 months, leave and come back for 5 months repeatedly (which may be is what they plan to do)m but you can't make money or run a business here as a visitor. Perhaps this is what they are planning to do for the immediate future.

That is very interesting and I think you are right. Harry and Meghan's announcement specifically said that they wanted to split their time between North America (not necessarily Canada) and the UK. There is no reason to think that they have any intention on becoming Canadian citizens.

However, I am curious whether it is possible that Meghan's work visa is still active or did it expire when she left Suits?

 

[QueenMathilde]

Actually you can't work or run a business as a visitor in Canada legally at all.

There is no such thing as a "permanent visitor". You could stay as a visitor for 5 months, leave and come back for 5 months repeatedly (which may be is what they plan to do)m but you can't make money or run a business here as a visitor. Perhaps this is what they are planning to do for the immediate future.

Yes, I don't understand the parlimentary system or the Canadian government well enough to get how it works either. Isn't it possible that like Theresa May Trudeau might not last a full term? So his promise might be pretty hollow.


As for status we had Canadians living next door and they had to go back to Canada every six months to keep their health insurance. Aaaand - that's as far as my knowledge of the Canadian system goes.


In any case Trudeau is a great friend so I'm sure as long as he is in power they'll get special treatment. She snubbed Trump and he has a thin skin so he won't do anything for them. Probably why they won't come until he's out of office. But the next person might be the same way.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

Did you even read the article? Not that you have to but it would maybe help...

And there is no point in rehashing the who had it worse. But again, I've been a royal watcher for way too long including during the early Kate years. What I've seen Meghan go through has been shocking even to me and I am pretty hard nosed and jaded about the media.

I believe that Camilla's coverage has been worse over the years, but the circumstances were very different. I like Camilla but her coverage has been focused on her behavior during Charles and Diana's marriage, which is more serious than making appearances without wearing "tights" (we call them nylons or hose in the U.S.).

Regardless, I think it is unfair to compare one person to another. I tend to get upset at things my husband shrugs off - everyone is different and have different trigger points.

 

[Purrs]

Trudeau has just been reelected for a second term, but he is leading a minority government which may not last the full parliament. The main opposition, however, is the Conservative Party of Canada (the Canadian Tories), which is normally a very pro-monarchy party. I don't see them taking away security from Harry and Meghan, but I may be wrong.


In any case, as far as I understand, Canadian police normally protects visiting British royals on royal tours. If they are going to spin H&M's status as "permanent visitors" as a previous poster suggested, permanent protection won't be a stretch. But that is up to the Canadian government to work out.

I think you are mistaken. Yes, historically the Conservative party is pro monarchy (they complained in the 1960s about the new Canadian flag not having an Union Jack in it). However, this isn't much of a factor anymore. They are fiscally conservative (they criticize the other parties for spending too much money when in power) Their party favours even tighter regulation of immigration to Canada and it was under their government that business and independent immigration categories were cancelled. I'd be surprised if they supported this move.

I believe IF they thought there was enough anger from Canadian voters and had the popular support from the public, they would not hesitate to bring a nonconfidence motion and bring down the government. Both of the other two parties, the Bloc Quebecois or the NDP would probably back this motion.

So I do think the current government has to tread very carefully in this area.

 

[texankitcat]

Issue is the BRF does not need to slim down. Henry and Meghan are needed for at least another 20+ years if they wanted to maintain the same level of engagements the royal family does now.

Exactly! Harry would have never been considered part of the "slimming down" plan since he is clearly needed and will the the Monarch's only other child. That argument is ridiculous.

 

[Zaira]

Moving words from David Wiseman who has worked closely with Harry on veterans issues at the Royal Foundation and also of course served himself.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1216774856257212416

 

[BaiSoSo]

I don't see how they were "run out" - the queen bent over backwards for them even letting Meghan come to Sandringham for Christmas back when they were engaged - something she didn't let anyone else do.
As for her being "treated badly" the other royals got treated as bad or worse - Kate was referred to as "waity kaity" and her mother as a social climbing "trolly dolly". Camilla was pelted with bread rolls when she went shopping. Beatrice and Eugene got called "Cinderella's ugly stepsisters" and they did their own interview where they cried about how hard it was to be a member of the royal family. And the media were picking on Andrew and ignoring Meghan and Harry when they did this - Andrew is the only one happy now he's no longer the "worst" member of the royal family. The difference I find is that the people who like Meghan know little about the royal family and haven't been following them for years so they didn't see the others get treated poorly.


I don't hate Meghan I just don't see why she ran out there and married Harry - Chelsy Davy dated him for years before she decided she couldn't stand the criticism (and she was picked on big time). And I don't understand why she seems so determined to bring them down now. Except for Princess Michael I'd say they treated her pretty decently. You can argue the public didn't but they never treat the royals well.



In any case it looks to me like Meghan and Harry rushed into this and I doubt they'll stay married much longer. Then what will Harry do? Does he still want to be an independent royal? Canada and the US sound like Meghan's choices we all know Harry would love to live in Africa. He's said so many times.

Being invite to Christmas before you are married isn't the same as showing support when the media is hounding you constantly especially while you are pregnant and post-partum. Go back at look at how Harry publicly gave support to both Camilla and Catherine during their struggles. Not one did any of that for Meghan. The Palace (pick one) was able to break the don't explain/complain policy for botox, hair extensions. Just today there was a statement put out that didn't make William look so great.

As for Catherine, I wouldn't necessarily say her treatment was the same as Meghan's if they just commented on things like the early morning emails I don't think they wouldn't be where they are now. Catherine wasn't called things such as vulgar for wearing certain nail polish, she wasn't harassed during her entire pregnancy, she and William can take private planes, helicopters with no complaints.

As for running out to marry Harry....they are in love and that was really all that was needed. Perhaps Meghan gave the British media too much credit thinking... she isn't a party girl (like Harry was when he was younger), she takes her responsibilities seriously so they won't have much to complain about or maybe she thought Harry was worth the risk. But the risks became too much when they became parents and the media started comparing her child to a monkey, talking about at 8 months old that he was going to be a spoiled brat that showed her it was never going to stop. That being said the media had already run off two of Harry's loves was he supposed to be the single bachelor forever? Not being able to get married and have a family because the media would become unbearable?

 

[Denville]

Issue is the BRF does not need to slim down. Henry and Meghan are needed for at least another 20+ years if they wanted to maintain the same level of engagements the royal family does now.

That's why they are twisting the Rf's arm. They know that their leaving will cause problems....