The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[wyevale]

They need to consult with the UK and Canadian governments. They need to consult the police in both countries.

The Foreign Secretary, the Chancellor, the Cabinet Secretary [head of the Civil Service], as well as the Ambassadors to Canada and [possibly] the USA, have had to waste valuable time on this tiresome business, when there are infinitely more pressing matters than the 'lifestyle wishlist' of a 'sleb couple' to occupy them.. I daresay the Canadian Ministers concerned feel the same..

 

[tommy100]

It seems as if, since the announcement the Queen has asked senior courtiers to look at all possible options, detailing them carefully and with input from others where relevant (e.g. the Home Secretary in regards to police protection, HMRC re tax issues, Canadian government in regards to their approach etc) This has been complied into a document detailing these options which I believe was stated has already been sent to each of the 4 royals but which will then be discussed together tomorrow at Sandringham.

Really this seems the best approach to me - get detailed options from those with expertise (as much as anyone has expertise in this issue) so that whichever option is chosen will be a) actually possible b)well thought out with any issues flagged up already c)no-one can say they were unaware of the full complications/issues/effect of each option and what it means for them

The question is whether any of the options will be attractive to Harry and Meghan and get them exactly what they want. Or will they, like the rest of us, have to do something they don't want to at some juncture (e.g. pay for a house or security themselves)

 

[evolvingdoors]

Strength is a very good thing, but not if it’s not tempered with kindness, compassion, understanding.

That reminds me - it does seem as if Charles truly has known Meghan all along. Remember - his nickname for her is Tungsten. Those qualities that he has seen in her are evident more than ever....in a bad way.


‘

Yea I was never impressed with the nickname. Tungsten is actually not a kind nickname, imo:
“Tungsten is known as one of the toughest things found in nature. It is super dense and almost impossible to melt. Pure tungsten is a silver-white metal and when made into a fine powder can be combustible and can spontaneously ignite.....Tungsten is used in many different ways because it is very strong and durable. It is very resistant to corrosion and has the highest melting point and highest tensile strength of any element. Its strength comes when it is made into compounds, though. Pure tungsten is very soft.”

The bolded says it all.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livescience.com/amp/38997-facts-about-tungsten.html

 

[Pranter]

Why is it so awful about Disney? If she is doing this for charitable reasons (Elephants without Borders etc) it's not a big deal.

Most everyone here is just assuming the worst about the whole situation. Why don't you all try waiting to see what happens and stop relying on tabloids. You know the same group of folks that lie and make things up and distort as they go? The same ones that have been sued previously and currently being sued.

NONE of these reporters and articles know what's really going on. They aren't there for these supposed conversations. It's well known that the inner circle of the BRF don't talk to the media. The media is laughing all the way to the bank.






LaRae

 

[sndral]

...While I understand that they're family and the family will be loathe to cut them off entirely (well, except for Anne because I suspect she has very clear opinions about all of this and none of them are favorable for Harry and Meghan),...

Wait - what? Has Anne issued a statement? If not, then imputing an opinion to her is a disservice to her, IMO. I do recall that when asked about the news of one of the Cambridge pregnancies - George, I believe, - she said it was nothing to do with her and my guess is that her attitude about the current situation is much the same - none of her business.
I do find it interesting that her son Peter is reported to be at Sandringham, years ago I read that he and William were close. He also lived outside of the country for awhile.

 

[yvr girl]

The Foreign Secretary, the Chancellor, as well as the Ambassadors to Canada and [possibly] the USA, have had to waste valuable time on this tiresome business, when there are infinitely more pressing matters than the 'lifestyle wishlist' of a 'sleb couple' to occupy them.. I daresay the Canadian Ministers concerned feel the same..

Commonwealth countries don't send Ambassadors to fellow Commonwealth countries - the have High Commissioners. I would expect this has gone up a level from that. I'd be willing to bet that the PM has been on a call or two with the Queen's private secretary. I also expect that several high-level burocrats in Ottawa spent the weekend putting together briefs.

 

[Mbruno]

As with many things, there are three levels of police in Canada: federal, provincial, and municipal.

At the municipal level, larger cities will have their own police forces (Toronto Police Services, for example).

Two provinces have their own provincial police forces, Ontario and Quebec. The OPP provides provincial policing as well as policing for small municipalities. They also provide a co-ordinating role in cross-jurisdictional investigations.

At the federal level, we have the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. In addition to providing federal-level policing, they provide the provincial police in several provinces and policing at several international airports.

Crucially, and to your point, they also provide the RCMP Protective Policing Service, which provides security details for protected persons.

Thank you !

I take from your reply that, even if they lived in Toronto, security would be provided by the RCMP ( the federal police) rather than the Ontario Provincial Police . Is that correct ?

 

[Erin9]

Furious Prince Philip said ‘What the hell are they playing at?’ after Harry and Meghan decided to quit the Royal Family.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10719...-decision-quit/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

I can well imagine Philip being livid. He gave 70 years to the monarchy. He gave up his beloved naval career. He has always been dutiful and taken his commitments seriously. He saw his job as supporting The Queen. Period. What he personally wanted was secondary. He made a promise, if you will, and kept it.

This has to be something of a slap in the face to his values. Harry and Meghan are backing off of a commitment they made.

Then, there’s the fact that this is difficult on his wife- who just went through the Andrew debacle.

And to top it all off- the way they’re handling this in public is just dreadful. Not talking to the family before announcing, their demand list, now the Tom Bradby articles that come across as blackmail.

He’s 98 years old, not doing well- it is a shame that he is having to deal with this. Both he and The Queen should not have to be dealing with this.

 

[Betsypaige]

Yea I was never impressed with the nickname. Tungsten is actually not a kind nickname, imo:
“Tungsten is known as one of the toughest things found in nature. It is super dense and almost impossible to melt. Pure tungsten is a silver-white metal and when made into a fine powder can be combustible and can spontaneously ignite.....Tungsten is used in many different ways because it is very strong and durable. It is very resistant to corrosion and has the highest melting point and highest tensile strength of any element. Its strength comes when it is made into compounds, though. Pure tungsten is very soft.”

The bolded says it all.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livescience.com/amp/38997-facts-about-tungsten.html

I believe Charles certainly meant it to be kind in that he was praising her strength - and no doubt felt after getting to know her that she could handle this life. He had no reason to suspect that Meghan would exhibit the worst qualities of Tungsten (if there can be “worst”). It seems to me that actress Meghan played her sweet, down to earth role to the hilt in order to ingratiate herself with the BRF

 

[Alison H]

Just as a general comment, it's still the headlines of the news this evening, and in tomorrow's papers, ahead of a diplomatic row with Iran, Brexit, the Australian bushfires, the Labour party leadership contest and everything else. Republicans can say what they like - interest in the Royal Family remains huge. It's just unfortunate that it's such a negative story.

 

[wyevale]

The clip of the encounter with the CEO of Disney has been taken down, at the behest of the 'Copyright Holders' - prompting paroxysms of anger on the internet saying 'they KNOW we're on to them', and that its an attempt to censor the truth...

 

[Erin9]

This meeting needs to start with cooler heads, which a few days cooling off period will help. It also needs to be based in reality. H&M have given their wish list, now they need to know what the actual implications of these wishes are.

One wonders how cool heads will be with the Tom Bradby article basically blackmailing the RF just coming out. IA- everyone needed a chance to calm down- but it’s going to be harder to do when the Sussexes are using their known mouthpiece to make threats. That was not smart imo. And it’s not good PR either.

I have a feeling, based on the vagueness of their wish list, that the reality may be worse than the Sussexes anticipated. It was clear they gave this a lot of thought, but what it wasn’t was WELL- THOUGHT out. I’m sure the BRF are trying to accommodate them. Better to keep them in both personally and professionally, than go out. But they also have to answer to the public and work with the governments involved.

 

[_Heather_]

Wait - what? Has Anne issued a statement? If not, then imputing an opinion to her is a disservice to her, IMO. I do recall that when asked about the news of one of the Cambridge pregnancies - George, I believe, - she said it was nothing to do with her and my guess is that her attitude about the current situation is much the same - none of her business.
I do find it interesting that her son Peter is reported to be at Sandringham, years ago I read that he and William were close. He also lived outside of the country for awhile.

Of course she hasn't nor would she because she, unlike these two ungrateful brats, knows how to appropriately behave. However, we all very much know Anne's personality just as much as we know the personalities of any member of the BRF, including Harry and Meghan. It's for this reason that I said "I suspect" because I suspect that Anne has a lot of thoughts about all of this and I suspect that none of them are terribly complimentary to these two. Much as I suspect that Prince Philip's reaction was certainly uncomplimentary and probably more along the lines of incredulous, furious, and very possibly littered with language I won't repeat here. The truth is that none of us were there and none of us know exactly what their reactions were. However, we've come to "know" all of them well enough over the years that's it's fair to speculate on what those reactions more than likely were. Anne does her duty quietly and without much fanfare but by all accounts she's very dedicated, does exactly what's asked of her, checks her ego, knows her place, and doesn't suffer fools. She's, by all accounts, quite close with her mother and has be quoted praising her parents example of duty and sense of "getting on with it" and it's clear to anyone who has followed the BRF for any length of time at all that she would very much roll her eyes and probably have a blistering comment or two about those who seek to shirk their duty, seek out a celebrity influencer type lifestyle, and go to extraordinary lengths not only to blindside the Queen and family but to blackmail, bully, and extort them into meeting their ludicrous demands.

 

[Erin9]

The question is whether any of the options will be attractive to Harry and Meghan and get them exactly what they want. Or will they, like the rest of us, have to do something they don't want to at some juncture (e.g. pay for a house or security themselves)

I’ll be surprised if any of those options give them everything they want with no compromises necessary.

 

[_Heather_]

I’ll be surprised if any of those options give them everything they want with no compromises necessary.

I agree. I understand the family aspect and I certainly understand the definition of negotiations, though I have my doubts that Harry and Meghan understand either of those things. Negotiations, though, would imply that they will get some of what they want and will have to compromise on other aspects. I do wonder, though, if that statement is a list of demands as it appears to be or whether it might be more of a wish list but whether they might be prepared to leave it all behind, every single bit of it, in exchange for a payout and an ability to do everything they wish to do without being hampered in any way short of being unable to use their titles for commercial gain and an NDA to keep them from publishing books or participating in tell-all interviews designed to damage the family. Sort of a good luck and good riddance and here's a wad of cash to get you on your way type thing.

 

[Betsypaige]

Harry’s going to have to face in person the damage he’s wrought with his actions.....Things that wouldn’t be said on phone will be said, I think. It will be interesting to see if he can cope with all of this...

 

[Mbruno]

I’ll be surprised if any of those options give them everything they want with no compromises necessary.

At this point, I am expecting them to get close to everything they want with very few strings attached. Prince Charles has indicated he favors reconciliation no matter the cost. I suspect William would be tougher, but he is not in charge.

I am looking forward to seeing what tomorrow’s meeting will bring.

 

[wyevale]

here's a wad of cash to get you on your way type thing

He HAS 'a wad of cash' from his Mother's and QEQM's bequest's ALREADY.. and if his wife is expecting 'severance pay', after barely 2 years 'service' [inc Maternity leave], that will go down very badly with the Public, who seem very clear in their opinion of these two as 'free-loaders'..

 

[Tsarinya]

Be interested to see what comes of the meeting tomorrow. People on social media are expecting a few big things, but I honestly don’t see there being any big. I believe the Queen would like this to be sorted as soon as possible with as little backlash on her and the BRF so I don’t see them losing their HRH’s, for example.

 

[Denville]

Harry’s going to have to face in person the damage he’s wrought with his actions.....Things that wouldn’t be said on phone will be said, I think. It will be interesting to see if he can cope with all of this...

And Meghan isn't even there to support him. Since iM pretty sure she made the bullets for this plan you'd think she would stay there and support Harry in their talks...

 

[Erin9]

I do find it interesting that her son Peter is reported to be at Sandringham, years ago I read that he and William were close. He also lived outside of the country for awhile.

Peter is at Sandringham. He walked to church and was asked how the Queen is doing. He said she was “alright.”

I’m not surprised he’s there. He missed Christmas with the family. (Maybe he was in Canada with Autumn’s.) I’m sure he wants to visit now that he’s home.

I recall an interview where he talked about how much he admired his grandfather and his stamina. I have no doubt he want to spend time with him, given his health seems to be declining. Plus- I’m sure he also wants to support his grandmother. Between Andrew and now Harry, that is a lot of stress on a 93 year old. It would a lot for anyone, but she’s in her 90s now.

He seems close to William as well- at least when William is photographed on his off time with family- it’s usually Zara or Peter’s family.

 

[_Heather_]

You know, in all of this it very much occurs to me that since the very beginning of this relationship people seem to have forgotten that "self-confident" is not the same as "arrogant" and "knowing one's self-worth and value" is not the same as being "self-important." These rumors that Harry acted swiftly because he feared Meghan would have a "break down" are simply code words for "temper tantrum" and that's exactly what they've both had so I wouldn't put much stock in those. So many posters here where slammed and browbeaten for daring to voice reservations about Meghan and about this relationship in general and sadly, many of their worst fears have played out over the last few days.

I think I speak for many of us when I say that it's very sad to see the divide between Harry and his family and the implications for the future. Most real royal watchers have long been aware that that wasn't the ideal life for Harry and he himself often spoke about the desire to slip quietly away, leave it all behind, and find a life in Africa that suited him far better than the life of an active royal and most of us sympathized. However, even doing that, I honestly don't believe that he would have ever voluntarily blown up his relationships with his family. He simply would have had a different career path. I genuinely don't believe that those wishes ever once included having a strained or non-existent personal relationship with the family that had always loved him and had his back. Now, though, I think it's exceedingly clear that those relationships are all but non-existent and I'm not sure there's really any coming back from that. I truly don't believe Meghan will ever again set foot in the UK other than possibly to collect her belongings from Frogmore, though to be honest I suspect that's already been taken care of and her belongings are in Canada with her. I don't believe she'll ever again see the Queen or really any other member of the royal family in person. I hope that, in time, we'll see Harry and Archie at least attempting to have a cordial relationship and possibly mend some fences but I'm not holding my breath. I find it terribly sad for William and his children, Charles, the Queen and Prince Philip, and even the cousins that he at one time appeared so close to that they may rarely, if ever, see Harry or Archie again other than in glossy magazines. I find it terribly sad that we'll never see Archie walking to church at Sandringham on Christmas or waving to the planes from the balcony at Trooping the Colour but I will be genuinely floored if either of those things ever happen. I really, really hope that Harry never regrets his choices and behavior but I very much suspects that he will, and probably in short order.

 

[_Heather_]

He HAS 'a wad of cash' from his Mother's and QEQM's bequest's ALREADY.. and if his wife is expecting 'severance pay', after barely 2 years 'service' [inc Maternity leave], that will go down very badly with the Public, who seem very clear in their opinion of these two as 'free-loaders'..

I fully agree but I'm allowing for the "he's still my son" argument and the fact that even though he already has a nice amount of cash, I see Charles offering a generous settlement or severance. And, whether we like it or not, it's his to offer. I won't rehash all the discussion regarding the Duchy and it's finances but what it boils down to is that should Charles wish to throw money at them on their way out, he can.

 

[Betsypaige]

And Meghan isn't even there to support him. Since iM pretty sure she made the bullets for this plan you'd think she would stay there and support Harry in their talks...

For someone who’s supposedly so strong, her tendency to flee is a significant weakness...

I don’t see Charles completely caving; it wouldn’t set a good precedent - not as a father or heir. Then again, I’m not necessarily confident...

 

[Nico]

And Meghan isn't even there to support him. Since iM pretty sure she made the bullets for this plan you'd think she would stay there and support Harry in their talks...

This last point is, indeed, baffling .

 

[Erin9]

At this point, I am expecting them to get close to everything they want with very few strings attached. Prince Charles has indicated he favors reconciliation no matter the cost. I suspect William would be tougher, but he is not in charge.

I am looking forward to seeing what tomorrow’s meeting will bring.

I have no doubt for many reasons Charles does want Harry and Meghan to walk away from the table relatively happy- or at least satisfied. And I fully understand that- as a future monarch, father and grandfather- he wants a good relationship with them. It benefits no one if this ends in anger. And, yes, I could see William being tougher.

But Charles still has to take into account public opinion, the will of governments involved, and any other reality that he can’t control. As BP said- this is a complicated situation. It’s not just- how much is Charles willing to give.

 

[_Heather_]

Peter is at Sandringham. He walked to church and was asked how the Queen is doing. He said she was “alright.”

I’m not surprised he’s there. He missed Christmas with the family. (Maybe he was in Canada with Autumn’s.) I’m sure he wants to visit now that he’s home.

I recall an interview where he talked about how much he admired his grandfather and his stamina. I have no doubt he want to spend time with him, given his health seems to be declining. Plus- I’m sure he also wants to support his grandmother. Between Andrew and now Harry, that is a lot of stress on a 93 year old. It would a lot for anyone, but she’s in her 90s now.

He seems close to William as well- at least when William is photographed on his off time with family- it’s usually Zara or Peter’s family.

All of this is very true. It's also very true that Peter has a long history as a fairly competent businessman and appears, at least to me, to be a very cool head with a sound and logical voice. He's close enough to the family to know the ins and outs and far enough removed from the main line to see the big picture with a fairly cool head. I have no doubt that he's concerned about the toll this is probably taking on his grandparents and even on his family in general but I suspect that his presence might be welcomed as a knowledgeable and somewhat neutral party. I doubt that he'll be asked to sit in on the talks but I wouldn't be one bit surprised if the relevant parties haven't asked him for his thoughts, particularly in light of the fact that he's remained close to his family but receives no money from them and has always been an independent party free to make his own money but knowing that capitalizing on his connections to his family would be severely frowned on. It's reported that he received a severe dressing down from HM when he made the mistake of selling his wedding pictures so he does have some experience in knowing exactly where the line is.

 

[ACO]

The clip of the encounter with the CEO of Disney has been taken down, at the behest of the 'Copyright Holders' - prompting paroxysms of anger on the internet saying 'they KNOW we're on to them', and that its an attempt to censor the truth...

Or it’s cause a random youtuber took a clip from a media agency without paying a fee and added unverified captions and spread it across social media.

It’s Disney. No one should be surprised by this.

 

[evolvingdoors]

And there is evidence that some have an agenda by stirring the pot on the racism front.
I mean it's so easy. Some posters were accused to have waited so bad the fallout of Meghan. I must say that it's obvious that some posters waited so bad to see the Windsors shown in a bad light.
From day 1 there was some kind of defiance toward the institution, the Establishment. More than a bit a fresh air, Meghan had to give the Windsors a run for their money.
In our insanely over sensitive PC world, the Harry/ Meghan story has always been quite heavy on the red flagged class, sex, political and race fronts. I remember quite well what i thought when their engagement came out : if it works, it will be a world class triumph for the modernization of the Monarchy, if it doesn't, it will explode in the face of the Queen.
Well, where are we now ?

While this has exploded, as anticipated, in the family face, imo they actually come out looking like the better party in this mess: they are the ones who, from the start, modified themselves to accommodate her (fiancé at Christmas doing the walk?!- unheard of!, which makes me a bit concerned regarding Beatrice relationship) she now, to anyone with any ounce of critical thinking skills, as the woman who has used Harry and the royals to her own private gains.

The family would be more than okay!. Meghan imo will be okay, for a short period and than her ego and sense of entitlement will be her downfall, I foresee a public, paid by some glossy magazine, reconciliation with her father, if he is still alive by then.


What I wish to know is Doria thoughts about all of this, I never got the sense she and Meghan were truly close and that like all in Meghan life was being used for publicity.

 

[Tsarinya]

I’m not sure of the reception Meghan would get here if she came and met with her patronage’s in public or did an event with Harry. I’m not sure if the atmosphere would be as warm as it was a few years ago when she toured the UK.
Some posters are saying they can’t see her coming back, and at first I thought ‘well that goes against the plan they have written in their website’ but now I think it could be a possibility?