The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[poppy7]

William knows, there was a documentary on some time ago and William spoke about the media. The part that stuck in my mind was about finding a balance of access for the media but also an element of privacy. He spoke about it being a 2 way thing , but there was a line that shouldn't be crossed by either party because that is when it went wrong. He emphasised the ' either party' So to me it that was an acknowledgment of the past.

In the Diana 7 days documentary, William very clearly showed an understanding of Diana's games with the media. He also appeared very clear eyed about his mother , also expressing extremely diplomatically that it was unfortunate that his memories were of her being upset and feeling the need to rescue her. Also implying how unfair it was on a child. Harry talked mainly about himself and guilt. Guilt was one thing missing from William.

 

[Kataryn]

Harry didn't get the grades at school to go to university. He basically 'failed' - a 'D' grade in one subject and a 'B' in the other is hardly the sign of someone who has the brains to go to school. He did have the marks to get into Sandhurst as they do additional tests.

The other five of HM's adult grandchildren all have degrees. William changed from History of Art to Geography while Eugenie did her degree in History of Art and Literature. She has worked at an art gallery since leaving university.

Beatrice has a degree in History and History of Ideas. There are jobs that could use those subjects but she seemed to want to go into business but she didn't study the relevant subjects to go into a degree in that area. So when making her subject selections at school she didn't think about job prospects it seems.

Charles and Edward didn't get into Cambridge on merit so there are questions about their degrees.

Neither Anne nor Andrew had the marks to get into university either.

What would you suggest - insist that the universities take in these royals who don't have the grades required?

If you want "real" work as a scion of a rich family is never a problem. If you dont have the brains like Prince Friso did to´manage your family portfolio, you can at least control it or part of it to have an office and a good salary. There are lots of big companies who'd love to have a (slightly elder) Royal prince as a figurehead without the prince having to do more than dining others.

The problem is that they all, like the Sussexes, want to do something that is not being a figurehead. Eugenie might not earn much (yet) but she is a part of the actively working art scene. Beatrice IMHO learns what she needs to know to manage the inheritance she will have after Andrew (for I think the non-stop claim that Sarah has debts is to let people forget that Andrew got rich organising contacts for payment, just like Sarah peddled him to do for the fake sheikh.)
Yes, I believe Meghan prefers to do "humanitarian work" like she saw Diana doing it - the big gestures for the cameras, the speeches, the big projects with a foreword, introduction or even book/documentary "by HRH the duchess" and that was what Diana had to do outside of the Royal Household, even though she had preferred to do it from inside. We don't know how Diana's life would have gone on after her divorce. Having seen her dying so fast after the finalisation of the divorce and with a lot more trust in Harry (and potential Meghan) Charles might be willing to let Harry and Meghan try that out. We'll see.

And if the cost of security is such a problem, they could reduce it to the public engagements both do (which are pre-announced) and let the others go, hoping for the best. It has thus far worked for other Royals as well.

We don't know enough of how they want to live their life when they are private. how much public events they want to do, how much life in the city (shopping, restaurants etc.) and how much just working or lounging in their home.

We'll see about this as well. But at least I don't believe Harry would accept putting shades on his paternal family. He is a knight, a trained soldier, raised as a gentleman and overall a good guy. And he chose Meghan, so she can't be such a bad egg as well. IMHo, of course.

 

[Muhler]

Which is why I think this won't be the end of Harry's mental health issues, but the beginning of a FAR more serious phase..

It occurs to me that having your wife fly off, leaving you to deal with a multitude of critical issues ALONE.. [when your head is in an already fragile state] hardly speaks of 'Marital support' ?

Would ANY married person here desert their spouse under such circumstances, when your child is safely ensconced elsewhere with Nanny [and quite possibly Grandma] ?

Seemingly no.

And that leads to a thought I have had in the back of my mind, along with a number of other alternatives BTW. So bear with me.

It would be natural for a married couple to present a united front in such dealings, but also in order to discuss various details. It is after all more difficult to negotiate when you are not talking face to face.
So that leads me to think:

A) Is Meghan threatening with divorce if the proposals outlined by the Sussex are not met?
Which would of course put pressure on Harry to negotiate a deal with his family. And it would make sense for Meghan to return to Canada to their child, rather than face the music beside her husband.
That is: If the proposals are not met, she won't return. She's leaving.

B) Has Meghan reached a breaking point, where she is in a state of flight, so to speak?
She can't bear to face the press, the public, the job as a royal and so on. - Some in that situation react by running away and go into hiding.
So Harry is basically negotiating a way to get out of the limelight. Perhaps even more than the proposals suggested?

C) Or is it Harry's suggestion that Meghan left for Canada? In order to spare his wife, from what will no doubt be a series of most unpleasant meetings!
And in case of a breakdown he will take the next plane and join his wife and son.

 

[SLV]

My guess is B and C.

 

[Betsypaige]

Deleted post

 

[wyevale]

I fear its A - now she has the Baby safely away, Harry has outlived his usefulness..

 

[auntie]

Well yes I was thinking similarly to you. But its still the right thing to do if he is game enough.
Philip may be able to talk some sense into him.

i doubt he'll listen to him, after all Prince Philip did tell him that actresses were not marriage material

 

[Mbruno]

I fear its A - now she has the Baby safely away, Harry has outlived his usefulness..

I don't think it is A, but wouldn't A be actually a desired outcome as far as the House of Windsor is concerned ? Meghan could be then safely cut off (lose her HRH, as per QEII's previous letters patent from the days of Diana's divorce, and not use it to make money for herself) and Harry could even remarry a quieter, more manageable British wife.



Again, however, I don't think A is likely, not least because it is not in Meghan's interest now and because Harry loves her.

 

[Parterre]

There is no way Harry is going to be Governor General of Canada:
1. We have one, and she is midway through her term. To toss her aside to put in a pouting prince would not fly.
2. He's not Canadian. It's been a long time since any Brit filled the role.
3. To my knowledge, he doesn't speak French. Non-starter.
4. He's not nearly accomplished enough. The current one is a freaking astronaut.

I disagree strongly (and I'm a Canadian citizen!)

#2 and 4 are really questions of public opinion. A poll in the National Post showed that 60% of Canadians would approve of Prince Harry becoming Governor-General, including 62% of 18-34 year olds and even 47% of Quebecers. By contrast, an Angus Reid poll showed that 55% of Canadians approved of the incumbent Julie Payette's appointment in 2017.

As for #1, I don't think anyone is suggesting booting Payette immediately. I imagine he would be appointed at the end of her term in 2022-23. This would give the Sussexes 2-3 years to bolster his finances, place down roots, and enhance their reputation further and take on local patronages (Colonel-in-Chief of the Royal Canadian Regiment?).

#3 is the only real barrier, but it's hardly an insurmountable one, if the Prince is willing to tackle it . In any case, the informal convention of alternating between Anglophones and Francophones means that the next GG should be an Anglophone, so I imagine he has some leeway (and bilingualism too is not a a hard rule but a custom which is flexible to public opinion, although given that it's expected generally of high-ranking officeholders I imagine it is less flexible than #2 and #4).

I think this would be the best of both worlds. It would lend the office of de facto head of state a glamour and prominence on the world stage it's long lacked. It would allow the Sussexes to take on a role with the purpose they've lacked in the UK, but one they would-- given their unique stature-- they would probably have a lot of room to redefine. It would abrogate all sorts of financial concerns. It would revitalize the Canadian monarchy for and renew the Crown's link with the largest Commonwealth realm during what will probably be an uncertain transition period. This Canadian move may yet prove a very sound idea, even if the roll-out was botched.

 

[Osipi]

Seemingly no.

And that leads to a thought I have had in the back of my mind, along with a number of other alternatives BTW. So bear with me.

It would be natural for a married couple to present a united front in such dealings, but also in order to discuss various details. It is after all more difficult to negotiate when you are not talking face to face.
So that leads me to think:

A) Is Meghan threatening with divorce if the proposals outlined by the Sussex are not met?
Which would of course put pressure on Harry to negotiate a deal with his family. And it would make sense for Meghan to return to Canada to their child, rather than face the music beside her husband.
That is: If the proposals are not met, she won't return. She's leaving.

B) Has Meghan reached a breaking point, where she is in a state of flight, so to speak?
She can't bear to face the press, the public, the job as a royal and so on. - Some in that situation react by running away and go into hiding.
So Harry is basically negotiating a way to get out of the limelight. Perhaps even more than the proposals suggested?

C) Or is it Harry's suggestion that Meghan left for Canada? In order to spare his wife, from what will no doubt be a series of most unpleasant meetings!
And in case of a breakdown he will take the next plane and join his wife and son.

Can I add a D) here?

D) Without announcing it, the Canadian hiatus was a period where hopefully all these issues would be resolved and with that in mind, Harry and Meghan flew to London expecting to meet and resolve issues and things went haywire and the ensuing chaos developed. Realizing that it was going to take longer, Meghan flew back to Vancouver (also with Harry's insistence) because, and I don't think anyone would disagree, right now Archie is her first priority. To compensate, she'll teleconference over a secure line into the powwow at Sandringham as the next best thing to being there.

I can't imagine that either Harry or Meghan, with both being very hands on parents, wanted to leave Archie for even the short amount of time they expected to be gone.

 

[Lee-Z]

or
E) They had intended to return to Canada together immediately after the announcement, not planning on a confrontation with his family at all, but
E1. someone from the BRF put their foot down and gave Harry an ultimatum to face the music in person
E2. Harry realised at the last minute how bad it would look if he ignored his family
(but Meghan had to go to Archie because that was what they had agreed with whoever is looking after him)

 

[LadyGlendower]

My guess is A or C. It has never been Meghan's desire to get away from the limelight.

I lean towards C but have an uneasy feeling that A is not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[Montague]

why didn't they bring him back with them? - still can't get my head round that

 

[Betsypaige]

Meghan apparently has a tendency to “flee”, to leave when the going gets tough, so I fear there is more of this ahead. Harry is a good hearted softie who seems only to want to please his wife- and who perhaps is intimidated by her. My brother is one of the nicest people ever and his two ex-wives tended to steamroll him without him ever really knowing it. I think this might be the case with H and M. “Whatever M wants, she gets” ? That just doesn’t sound like him, and we’ve had reports that he’s not the same young man that everyone has known and loved. 2+2 = 4....

 

[Tarlita]

Oh to be a fly on the wall Monday at Sandringham.

 

[sm1939]

Such a shame she couldn’t have had more time before she got married to get used to her new Role and what was excepted of her. Also why didn’t Harry tell her what our newspapers were like in the Uk . But I suppose when you are in love and it’s all new and romantic and he is a prince you don’t take hed.

 

[King of the Jungle]

I can't comprehend how parents could leave their baby in a foreign country without one of them - even for one day. How would a British baby get home again should his parents be in the UK unable to fly back and collect him?
Isn't a baby's passport connected to their parents' passport?

 

[Betsypaige]

Terrible...even for Charles in his 70s. It’s crushing for him personally as a father and also to watch his mother suffering... I hope they are leaning on each other...

Peter Phillips walked to church with a dozen house guests at Sandringham today. Asked how the #Queen was bearing up and he said ‘alright’. Desperately sad it should come to this for her and the Duke of Edinburgh, both in their 90s. #harryandmegan

https://twitter.com/x/status/1216314616197844992

I can't comprehend how parents can leave their baby in a foreign country without one of them - even for one day.
How would a British baby get home again should his parents be in the UK unable to fly back and collect him?

True, and I have to wonder how often they’ll be doing this to perpetuate “their brand” ?

 

[Montague]

I can't comprehend how parents could leave their baby in a foreign country without one of them - even for one day. How would a British baby get home again should his parents be in the UK unable to fly back and collect him?
Isn't a baby's passport connected to their parents' passport?

No they have their own passport from day 1 these days - quite a palaver getting the photo done!!

 

[O-H Anglophile]

My point was that he could easily have stayed another 10-11 years in the military as Prince Andrew and the Duke of Kent did before he would be needed for full-time royal work (we are talking a time horizon here around 2026 only).

If I remember correctly, if Harry had stayed in the Army, his next promotion would have put him behind a desk, at least for awhile, which he didn’t want so he left the Army and his career. But yes, he left the Army sooner than was expected.

 

[Denville]

why didn't they bring him back with them? - still can't get my head round that

Because they never intended to come back full time? They intended to come, for a few days, tell the British press and public and the RF what they have decided and then scoot off and start "part time living in Canada" but expecting to be back in the UK later to do a bit of work..
However they have found that the BRF and even more the British public are not happy with what they have seen them do and are insisting that they can't do this and one or both of them have to stay to negoitiatte some kind of settlement. I do think that they should have left Archie.. another couple of days wont do him any harm.. and Meg should be with Harry to be involved in the talks..

 

[Madame Verseau]

DM. - rest of the royal family allegedly weighing in

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...Edward-call-Queen-sack-private-secretary.html

If they want to look at staff members start with the one that apparently leak the Sussexes' plans to Dan Wooten and the Sun.

 

[Denville]

I can't comprehend how parents could leave their baby in a foreign country without one of them - even for one day. How would a British baby get home again should his parents be in the UK unable to fly back and collect him?
Isn't a baby's passport connected to their parents' passport?

Why is that a problem? He has a nanny and can travel with her...

 

[Betsypaige]

I loathe this Tom Bradby...

Calling the Windsors poisonous and Machiavellian ? “Claiming” the BRF was blindsided? Trashing Charles (the newspaper bit and the part in bold)?

Victoria Murphy called this a thoughtful piece?

There was a small twist in the story of Harry and Meghan’s announcement last week that gives an indication of just how poisonous and frankly Machiavellian the modern House of Windsor has become. The young couple, newly returned and refreshed from their six weeks away, wanted to meet other members of their family and officials to discuss their plans to work towards becoming financially independent in a newly slimmed-down monarchy.

Harry was asked to put pen to paper with some ideas for discussion. He was reluctant, on the grounds that such documents normally leak.

He was persuaded and did as he was asked. The document, or its details, was shortly afterwards leaked to The Sun. And then, once he had gone ahead with an announcement anyway, palace officials claimed to have been blindsided by it.

.....

It is quite hard to know who is right and who is wrong in this, and foolish perhaps to even try to decide. Some other members of the family say Harry and — particularly — his wife come across as extremely difficult. They feel they have done their absolute best to create space for the newcomer.

Harry and Meghan, on the other hand, find some other members of the family (with the exception of the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh) jealous and, at times, unfriendly.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/harry-and-meghans-escape-from-the-poisonous-palace-rg75t9rxc

DM. - rest of the royal family allegedly weighing in

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...Edward-call-Queen-sack-private-secretary.html

If they want to look at staff members start with the one that apparently leak the Sussexes' plans to Dan Wooten and the Sun.

I don’t understand why Charles wanted Geidt gone if he was so effective. I love Charles, but does he really only want YES men in the employ of the BRF? That sounds like something Andrew would do....

I also don’t get why the article is implying that Charles or anyone should have known exactly how much of a problem Harry and Meghan would turn out to be. He was happy, and I’m sure that made the a Queen and Charles happy

 

[An Ard Ri]

Oh to be a fly on the wall Monday at Sandringham.

I was just thinking the same thing

 

[King of the Jungle]

Denville, it just seems strange to me that a baby who can't speak but who has a passport can travel the World with any one other than it's parents.

Any baby could be snatched and taken over borders with any adult, therefore.
I guess there might be papers supporting the guardian role of the nanny but who can verify those to be accurate. No wonder children are kidnapped to other countries.

What would happen if the parents had an accident and couldn't return. For a low profile baby how would a nanny prove guardianship?

 

[tommy100]

I don’t understand why Charles wanted Geidt gone if he was so effective. I love Charles, but does he really only want YES men in the employ of the BRF? That sounds like something Andrew would do....

I also don’t get why the article is implying that Charles or anyone should have known exactly how much of a problem Harry and Meghan would turn out to be. He was happy, and I’m sure that made the a Queen and Charles happy

I got the impression they were implying part of the reason Charles wanted Geidt gone was he "foresaw" challenges with Meghan and Harry, though given he left before they were even engaged I'm not sure there's truth in that (plus HM gave him a role in same organisation as H&M regarding Commonwealth)

I can believe Andrew wanted him gone because Geidt was happy to tell HM the truth including about her second eldest son and the future role of his daughters.

Interesting HM was travelling to church today with her lady in waiting Lady Susan Hussey, one of the more experienced Ladies in Waiting - William's godmother, and who was "lent to Diana" in the very early days. Whether on purpose or by chance HM seems to have her A-team with her including people who've known the family for long enough to not be intimidated by them.

 

[LadyGlendower]

Such a shame she couldn’t have had more time before she got married to get used to her new Role and what was excepted of her. Also why didn’t Harry tell her what our newspapers were like in the Uk . But I suppose when you are in love and it’s all new and romantic and he is a prince you don’t take hed.

No doubt Meghan knew all about the Brit newspapers going in and to this day it mystifies me why she projects a blindsided injured public persona when it comes to the press. Her tough activist feminist woman in her thirties persona is so at odds with this. I expected to see a silent fierce dignified spit in your eye response and what I saw instead was that weak tea ITV mess.

But I think on a personal level your assessment is probably very close to the mark.

 

[wartenberg7]

That' s obviously the same fault, isn't it?
William has lost his mother, too and suffered from media attention and he was their main focus always as he will be the heir. But he managed to cope with it and protects his family, too.
It is really funny if only it did not turn out a tragedy how everybody thinks Harry the only one who lost,suffered and now protects his family
but others have done before and much better.
Since his relationship with Meghan Harry has choosen to do things differently, instead of learning from others who have more experience and suceeded.
As Harry ain't the brightest bunny and only proofed to can be funny, maybe a somehow good soldier but with not more! this is either a lack if intelligence or most probably a combination if both a lack of intelligence and arrogance or stupidity.
Plus Meghan who does not seem to adapt anything, have no experience in Britain, being royal or being much in the focus if the media though she was a d-list actress before.
What can one expect from this couple? Maybe they see themselves as rebels or just doing things differently but they are nit learning, one desaster after another since they started.
I wonder if nobody gave Meghan the time to adjust slowly or if she did not want to. She has now proofed she just can't manage it.
I think it would be wise to rake them out, because there will always be a next surprise with them.
Monarchy is not about yourself but about serving!
And this is nit all easy but possible!

Well, she still is a "d-actress" to me....
As if the RF didn´t have their share of an american divorcee causing a lot of trouble - no, here we go one more time....
As much as I disrespect Markle´s father, he was right about one thing he said "Meghan will cause a lot of problems for the RF!" Of course he was slammed for it by all the "Meghan-Fans".
It is so sad when I think about Harry. He was one of the most popular, if not the most popular, member of the BRF (I know people who do not give a damn about Royalty, but they liked and respected Harry!), and what did he become....

 

[O-H Anglophile]

I think if you are set on doing something your own way, even when told that won’t work for the BRF or even say the Royal Foundation, it is easy to assign jealousy to others as to why they won’t let you do what you want, how you want. And after awhile, yes I can see how things could become very strained or “unfriendly.”
And now I recall the anonymous Sussex staff person who spoke out this fall about how the Sussexes have “singlehandedly modernized the monarchy” amongst other nonsense. If this was the Sussex attitude then I can see how it would cause friction.