The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[Somebody]

When all of this blows up in Harry's face one day, I believe the royal family would take him back, but only when he realizes what is really happening.

An example of a royal who completely broke with her family but was taken back is princess Margarita de Bourbon de Parme. She of course was never supposed to be a working member of the family but relations were extremely sour for a while (during her first marriage); since she left her first husband she will surely have apologized profoundly for her erratic behavior and now seems to be an appreciate member of the wider royal family; even appearing with her aunt (princess Beatrix) that she treated extremely badly at various events.

So, a good example of how bad relationships within a royal family can be repaired.

 

[Kataryn]

...

I’m not black nor am I bi-racial, so I don’t have the same experiences as Meghan. However, I saw nothing but respect and inclusion extended by the Queen, the POW, and the entire royal family toward Meghan and Doria.

Don’t use racism as an excuse for what could and should only be described as childish, immature behavior by two adults.

JMHO

I don't think "racism" happened in the Royal family, but in the media it did.

 

[Mbruno]

apparently, conversations over H&M are 'progressing well':

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51074844

oh, to be a fly on the wall in those conversations...! wouldn't it be interesting to hear everyone's point of view?

The fact that the talks are even taking place (involving the four households, the British government and the Canadian government) and that the Queen, according to the DM (take it with a grain of salt !), instructed that they be wrapped up in 72 hours is evidence that Harry and Meghan's temper tantrum has already worked (at least partially) for them. I find that sad.



I understand Charles' strategic thinking on the matter and the need to keep H&M in the fold, but I hope it is not another case of parents not knowing how to handle their spoiled kids.

 

[lea]

Personally, I think this is mostly Harry. I do believe that Meghan has had an influence on him, but not in the Disney evil villain way that so many seem to think. I think she is perhaps the first person since his Mother died that hasn’t advised him to keep a stiff upper lip no matter the circumstances. As she said publicly, it’s not okay to just survive.

William saw the example of the Middleton family and I do hope that will allow he and Catherine to maintain a happy, healthy home life. Harry has seen an example, from Meghan, of someone who has built a happy, healthy life for herself in spite of a dysfunctional family.

It’s not surprising that Harry feels empowered to insist on change. I wish it could have been done without all of the drama and I’m quite sure everyone involved does as well. But for whatever reason something happened to make him feel he had no choice but to act. He’s human. He’s not all bad or all good, nor is Meghan or the rest of the royal family. They’ve all made mistakes and I hope they can work something out that bridges the differences and doesn’t compromise the health and well-being of anyone.

 

[Somebody]

IMO, The “complex” and “requires a lot of work” is getting multiple governments to agree to foot the bill

That is surely part of it. But the complexities and requiring work is also the BRF and the Sussexes coming to an agreement. It didn't seem they were anywhere near. It seems they still had to meet with Charles and the queen to discuss it.

I'd say that anyone who has followed royalty for a while would see the issues with the plans the Sussexes proposed on their website.

 

[Blog Real]

apparently, conversations over H&M are 'progressing well':

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51074844

oh, to be a fly on the wall in those conversations...! wouldn't it be interesting to hear everyone's point of view?

I also wanted to be a fly on the wall to hear these conversations.

 

[Helen.CH]

That assumes the York girls would even want to step in. They’ve built lives outside of being FT members of the Firm. PT or FT- it’s presumptuous to assume they want to step in because Harry and Meghan decided not to live up to the commitment they made.

I hope this will not happen and think so, too.
No one wants Sarah's influence back and her daughters are the same spoilt sort of royals like Harry.
No, zhis is not the solution for filling an eventual gap.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

If Harry and Meghan do decide to reside in Canada on a more permanent basis the only way Harry could stay legally would be if he got some kind of diplomatic status from the British embassy because he would never qualify to immigrate here.

Would Prince Harry and Meghan eventually have to become citizens of Canada?

 

[toukale]

Personally, I think this is mostly Harry. I do believe that Meghan has had an influence on him, but not in the Disney evil villain way that so many seem to think. I think she is perhaps the first person since his Mother died that hasn’t advised him to keep a stiff upper lip no matter the circumstances. As she said publicly, it’s not okay to just survive.

William saw the example of the Middleton family and I do hope that will allow he and Catherine to maintain a happy, healthy home life. Harry has seen an example, from Meghan, of someone who has built a happy, healthy life for herself in spite of a dysfunctional family.

It’s not surprising that Harry feels empowered to insist on change. I wish it could have been done without all of the drama and I’m quite sure everyone involved does as well. But for whatever reason something happened to make him feel he had no choice but to act. He’s human. He’s not all bad or all good, nor is Meghan or the rest of the royal family. They’ve all made mistakes and I hope they can work something out that bridges the differences and doesn’t compromise the health and well-being of anyone.

Exactly my thinking. Everyone is so quick to blame Meghan because it fits the narrative they want to push (she is bad news). Let's think back about some of the things Harry said before he met Meghan. This is someone who said he did not want to be king, he hated the whole thing, and would never forgive the press. So why are we blaming the girl when he finally decides to challenge the firm? Meghan was not responsible for any of those things. History is going to look back and our treatment of her will make her seems so much bigger (influence) than she actually is. What are we afraid of when it comes to her?

Reading through a lot of the comments posted here tells me most of those posters are older than me, I am in my mid 30's for those who want to know. I see most wanted Harry to marry someone who would put their head down, be a good girl, be submissive and don't question anything [...]Harry would not be happy in such a union for sure.

Harry was going to challenge the status quo no matter what, he needed the right partner a strong individual who could walk the path with him, enters Meghan. In Meghan, Harry saw a woman he could go to war with, I am convinced its the main reason he jumps and rushed things so fast. You can see Meghan's influence and that scares everyone, especially those who already did not like her. Look at all the criticism of her, they are mostly rooted in either her self-confidence, lack of following those made up protocol made up mostly by the press or race. They are really a bunch of nonsense reasons.

 

[Mbruno]

An interesting article on the CBC website about Harry's legal problems with immigration to Canada.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-harry-meghan-canada-1.5423395

En passant, the article mentions the recent ruling of the Canadian courts (discussed here on TRF) that Canada does not have any domestic law on succession to the Crown (unlike Australia or New Zealand). Basically, the Canadian courts simply ruled that the person who occupies the British throne is ex-officio also the King or Queen of Canada, but the mechanism by which he or she ascends the throne is a matter solely of British law. The implication, according to the constitutional expert who was interviewed, is that, in addition to members of the RF other than the Queen having no recognized public role under the constitution of Canada, they can't even claim special status for being in the line of succession because no such thing exists in Canada (again according to the Canadian courts so far; that ruling, as mentioned here, was controversial and disputed).



Canada is indeed a strange monarchy !


EDIT: Of course, that discussion is mostly academic. In practice, we know members of the RF like the PoW or the DoC do tours of Canada where they are clearly recognized as having a constitutional role in the country as successors to the Crown , and many members of the RF (including "minor royals") have Canadian patronages, links to Canadian regiments, etc.

 

[Purrs]

To the Canadians on this board … any backlash at the possibility of Jessica Mulroney having "guided" her bff Meghan in this ill-fated endeavor? 'Just wondering.

I never heard of Jessica Mulroney until Meghan got engaged even though I live in the same city. Her husband Ben is the son of a former Prime Minster and is/was was a very minor media personality.

I don't think there will be much of a backlash because most people here don't pay any attention to her.

 

[LadyGlendower]

I cannot speak for anyone else here but I'm not afraid of Meghan or her influence (or lack of it) in the BRF. I thought she had potential but based on her actionsI don't think she fully realizes that just saying you are something does not make you that thing. The old showbiz saying is never believe your own press.

Harry went to war and came back with a heart for his wounded brothers, so we have Invictus. It doesn't get more real than that.

 

[tommy100]

Apparently there will be a "summit" at Sandringham on Monday with HM, Charles and Harry there and Meghan phoning in from Canada.

Thats from Rebecca English (DM reporter) on twitter

https://twitter.com/x/status/1216102612979851265

Chris Ship says the same but also says William will be there too

https://twitter.com/x/status/1216102479668092930

 

[Mbruno]

Apparently there will be a "summit" at Sandringham on Monday with HM, Charles and Harry there and Meghan phoning in from Canada.

Thats from Rebecca English (DM reporter) on twitter

https://twitter.com/x/status/1216102612979851265

Interesting, no William ?

 

[tommy100]

Interesting, no William ?

Chris Ship says William will be there too, have edited my post. Would love to be listening to that meeting between them all ?

 

[duchessrachel]

This is Meghan’s understanding of the BRF. Celebrities “collaborate” with brands and she thinks the Queen and the BRF are a brand. IMO, she never has or never wanted to, understand what being Royal really means

I agree. It is disturbing to think back when she said that she was going to "hit the ground running." She has definitely hit the ground running...to Canada.

 

[Nico]

Apparently there will be a "summit" at Sandringham on Monday with HM, Charles and Harry there and Meghan phoning in from Canada.

Thats from Rebecca English (DM reporter) on twitter

https://twitter.com/x/status/1216102612979851265

Chris Ship says the same but also says William will be there too

https://twitter.com/x/status/1216102479668092930

If true, it's nonetheless rather extraordinary that Meghan isn't even there in person to discuss her own future ...

 

[duchessrachel]

I think this is going to go poorly. I hope I’m wrong, but I really wish they hadn’t rushed this decision. I think they’ll get far more scrutiny this way than if they had just been quiet and done very low key work for a while.

I really like Meghan and think she could have been a tremendous asset to the royal family, but I don’t think she was prepared for how her life would change. How could she have been? It’s not like anything anyone else goes through and she and Harry didn’t date very long before they got married. Kate had the benefit of ten years of experience before her marriage and she went in knowing fully what she was getting into in a way that wasn’t possible for Meghan.

I hope that whatever happens they’re happier, but I think this is the start of months of scrutiny into every small thing they do and how it’s paid for.

In my opinion, this is exactly why they should have dated longer. I remember during William and Kate's engagement interview, he said he wanted to give Kate enough time to decide if she really wanted to get herself into it (not the exact words). Meghan should have done the same thing.

 

[Betsypaige]

Just FYI:

I tweeted Victoria Arbiter and asked if she thought whether it would backfire on the Queen and Prince Charles if they gave in too much of Harry and Meghan’s “demands”?

She said that

We have to remember there's a family trying to work things out here not just a business. HM & Charles are not going to want to cut H&M off & banish them, but they'll also have to answer to the British public so whatever they come up with will have to be very carefully thought out. There's so much to consider, but ultimately they'll want H&M to be happy with whatever is finally agreed upon.

I agree. We’re not just talking about the Queen and PoW, but a grandmother and father. They can be angry and hurt without wanting to “punish” Harry and Meghan. I trust them to do the best thing.

 

[Purrs]

Would Prince Harry and Meghan eventually have to become citizens of Canada?

I think that this question has been answered. No they don't have to ever become citizens to live here. There are people here who've never become Canadian citizens but there are legal permanent residents (that's the requirement to stay longer than 5 consecutive months) However, without citizenship, you don't have some right citizens have. You cannot vote or run for political office, cannot travel under a Canadian passport, our government won't assist you if you run into difficulties outside of the country, you can be refused re entry into Canada and you commit a serious crime, you may be deported out of Canada.

However as I've previously stated you have to be a permanent resident (a legal status you apply for that is granted by the Canadian government.) As I and others have stated neither of them are eligible to apply as permanent residents. The exception being unless they qualify for some work permit (Meghan could do another TV show) or UK govt grants Harry some form of diplomatic credentials (which would mean that would to be careful with what they say). Neither of these options are considered being a permanent resident as you have to leave when the job ends. Permanent residents can stay here indefinitely and earn money here.

If they leave every 5 consecutive months and come back (I don't know how long the period is), they could live here semi permanently as visitors. However, as visitors, they cannot legally make money here (you need a work permit for that if you aren't a permanent resident aka "landed immigrant".)

 

[Hallo girl]

Could somebody please tell me why Harry should be paid if he wants to move away from the family and be financially independent.
If they wish to partially remain and carry out duties , it will be difficult to then earn a private income. Not impossible but not easy.
It is also quite obvious that a lot of this has been planned, there could be other things all waiting to come out.

 

[Somebody]

To gain an idea about how big this news is in other countries:
5 articles on the NOS-website since Wednesday (2x Wednesday; 2x Thursday; 1x today). Normally it's probably 2-3 royal related articles a week (from both the Dutch and foreign royal houses combined).
It's a rather busy few days: 2 more royal articles on the death of sultan Qaboos (today).

 

[duchessrachel]

This is all shocking but I am not surprised. But what is this? Do they keep their titles? Their home that is technically on a publically owned estate. Do they get publicly paid security. And in all honesty, apart form his not insubstantial inheritance from his mother, Harry has no money of his own, his is under educated aside from having the best schooling money can buy, and all he has to do now to get things done is to say he is interested in things. People only support him because he is royal. No matter how much charisma he has. The money he inherited will not sustain his lifestyle more than about half a decade. Who will exactly support him with his charities? If they wanted to step back from public life altogether, go back into the army, even Meghan to pick up bits of acting work. That would be different. But they want to keep a super high public image. Found their own charities but just not be royal. That is entirely different. How is this going to stop the media frenzy or its toxicity except for the fact that if they are not royal they will be forgotten about eventually. How is that going to be for the charities. That is the dilemma of royal lives
No freedom. Do great things for the lives of others and you have everything money could want.

Basically trying to be his mother but her scenario was different. It is very worrying and I am.sure his family are upset.

Also, the allure of Meghan and Harry is that Harry is royal and Meghan is "commoner to royal". Now that they are stepping back, it makes me wonder if eventually the interest will wane with their independence from the royal family.

 

[Pranter]

Could somebody please tell me why Harry should be paid if he wants to move away from the family and be financially independent.
If they wish to partially remain and carry out duties , it will be difficult to then earn a private income. Not impossible but not easy.
It is also quite obvious that a lot of this has been planned, there could be other things all waiting to come out.

That is between he and his father since that is where the money comes from.


LaRa

 

[Betsypaige]

Apparently there will be a "summit" at Sandringham on Monday with HM, Charles and Harry there and Meghan phoning in from Canada.

Thats from Rebecca English (DM reporter) on twitter

https://twitter.com/x/status/1216102612979851265

Chris Ship says the same but also says William will be there too

https://twitter.com/x/status/1216102479668092930

Based on Twitter reaction, the public is in no mood for concessions to H & M. I don’t blame them, but as I said in my lost below, the Queen and Charles don’t want to “lose” them - we’re still talking about a grandmother and father.

 

[Somebody]

I think that this question has been answered. No they don't have to ever become citizens to live here. There are people here who've never become Canadian citizens but there are legal permanent residents (that's the requirement to stay longer than 5 consecutive months) However, without citizenship, you don't have some right citizens have. You cannot vote or run for political office, cannot travel under a Canadian passport, our government won't assist you if you run into difficulties outside of the country, you can be refused re entry into Canada and you commit a serious crime, you may be deported out of Canada.

However as I've previously stated you have to be a permanent resident (a legal status you apply for that is granted by the Canadian government.) As I and others have stated neither of them are eligible to apply as permanent residents. The exception being unless they qualify for some work permit (Meghan could do another TV show) or UK govt grants Harry some form of diplomatic credentials (which would mean that would to be careful with what they say). Neither of these options are considered being a permanent resident as you have to leave when the job ends. Permanent residents can stay here indefinitely and earn money here.

If they leave every 5 consecutive months and come back (I don't know how long the period is), they could live here semi permanently as visitors. However, as visitors, they cannot legally make money here (you need a work permit for that if you aren't a permanent resident aka "landed immigrant".)

So, that would suggest that the other option is 'temporary residents' (the USA has that category for those who are legally in the country but don't have green card (yet)); and temporary residents would be allowed to live in a country and make money (as they are residents because of their job).

 

[Hallo girl]

That is true, this is a family, also to be blunt there could be an element of a deal with regards what they do in the future if they receive a pay off. Although there has to be trust between all parties for that kind of arrangement.

 

[Purrs]

If true, it's nonetheless rather extraordinary that Meghan isn't even there in person to discuss her own future ...

Personally I think it looks really bad that Meghan isn't there. I've wondered why she isn't there. Is she so worried about the media blow back in the UK to their announcement she can't even stay there? Afraid to meet with the other royals and hear from them directly? Busy lining up commercial opportunities?

As she and Harry don't seem to want an entirely private life does she not understand that public perception is important for their new role? Most of the criticism I've seen is not that they want to change their role but the way they've gone about it.

In the past, I've defended both of them but I'm very disappointed in them.

So, that would suggest that the other option is 'temporary residents' (the USA has that category for those who are legally in the country but don't have green card (yet)); and temporary residents would be allowed to live in a country and make money (as they are residents because of their job).

It's different in Canada. (I'm aware of the US system as I have an American parent and I actually am a dual citizen of both Canada & the US although I was born in Canada and have never lived there. My American mother applied for it on my behalf. She did not become a Canadian citizen herself for many, many years because the USA didn't not at one time, permit dual citizenship (she had a "landed immigrant" (permanent residence) status since 1953. When the Americans changed their laws to permit Canadian citizenship, she applied. At that time, she'd been married to Canadian citizen for almost 50 years.)

In Canada you have to file the permanent residency application FIRST in order to stay beyond 5 months (otherwise you are illegal). While your application is in process, you are allowed to live here (it can take several years) but you CANNOT legally make any money in Canada until status is finally granted. My son-in-law is a permanent resident and hopes to apply for Canadian citizenship this year. (Her permanent resident status was granted because my daughter's spousal sponsorship was accepted) and my daughter worked for a Canadian immigration lawyer. It took him almost 4 years to be approved and earn the right to legally earn money here.

 

[Eskimo]

Apparently the Obama's have released a statement denying that they even gave any advice to Harry and Meghan. It is extremely detailed and talks about the handful of times they have interacted with them. It ends by talking about their friendship with Will and Kate.

So, in the last two days Oprah and the Obama's have come out and distanced themselves for the Sussex duo. This does not bode well for the Sussex "brand"

 

[Betsypaige]

Personally I think it looks really bad that Meghan isn't there. I've wondered why she isn't there. Is she so worried about the media blow back in the UK to their announcement she can't even stay there? Afraid to meet with the other royals and hear from them directly? Busy lining up commercial opportunities?

As she and Harry don't seem to want an entirely private life does she not understand that public perception is important for their new role? Most of the criticism I've seen is not that they want to change their role but the way they've gone about it.

In the past, I've defended both of them but I'm very disappointed in them.

If she just doesn’t want to face them - this would be a terrible portent for the future in terms of her relationship with them. Is she going to stay home whenever Harry goes back to be with them? Someone said that she tends to flee - and that appears to be what she’s doing. That said, It’s possible also that she just doesn’t want to deal with the photographers at this time...