The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[Ista]

Originally Posted by Zaira

Well, IMO its pretty established that the Firm is ruthless. At the end of the day its a group of people who want to retain their power and privilege. No one is doing this out of the kindness of their hearts so of course the BRF isn't some bastion of fraternity or love.

I think we have learned that all of them: Harry, Charles, William and the rest all prefer yes men. This was a complaint for many in the early days in the Cambridge marriage when we got the "William the tyrant" articles before the tune changed.

It has been reported by just about everyone over the years that none of the Windsor men do well with being told no.

Now personally I think its all rather rich that Geidt is being given all this credit in hindsight when who knows if he would be doing any better with the situation? Arguably, part of your job as a leader is to make sure those behind you can step up and take over well. It seems none of Geidt's deputies have done so, if reporting is to be believed. And the issues with the Wales Brother setting up their own court and being hard to "wrangle" (before Meghan came along) have been reported about constantly and also happened under Geidt to say nothing of the Andrew debacle hardly being a 2019 shock.

Nevertheless, it is clear there is a dearth of leadership within the BRF. The Queen is old and tired. Philip is done. Charles is...well idk but this isn't an auspicious start for him. And who knows about William.

It really is all and well a mess but also largely a reflection of the mess that is UK politics and institutions overall IMO.

Agreed. One of the most alarming aspects of this entire debacle is that it is clear that no one is in charge, and that no one has either the fortitude or skill to crack the whip and bring everyone on all sides in line.

The fact that Harry (and Meghan, but I largely give her pass on this, since she doesn't have the relationships and attachments to the family and the tradition as Harry does) dared to defy the Queen and go ahead and publish the now infamous list on their website is not only alarming, it's downright terrifying in its implications.

H and M have shown that they are willing to flout the monarch's authority to get what they want, and I don't see any realistic way to rein them in. They've done it once successfully, there is absolutely nothing to stop them doing the same in the future. I say "successfully" because the Queen, Charles and William are apparently willing to bend over backwards to soothe the Sussexes down and keep them in the fold. That is never, ever going to end well, and the Sussexes show every sign of being a long term liability. Loose cannons, indeed.

Interesting reading in the press this morning, especially some of the editorials in The Times. There doesn't seem to be much softening towards the Sussexes that I can detect, so I am wondering how the inevitable concessions that H and M wrangle out of the Queen and Prince Charles are going to be viewed.

[Nico]

Originally Posted by Madame Verseau

DM. - rest of the royal family allegedly weighing in

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...secretary.html

If they want to look at staff members start with the one that apparently leak the Sussexes' plans to Dan Wooten and the Sun.

DM. Meghan is allegedly a gold digger

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ULE-world.html

We can play forever at this point. Sounds fun.

[carlota]

Originally Posted by wartenberg7

Well, she still is a "d-actress" to me....=

and to me. let's face it, when reports of harry going out with 'meghan markle' went out for the first time, no one knew who she was (with the exception of maybe suits fans which was far from a blockbuster).

Originally Posted by sm1939

Such a shame she couldn’t have had more time before she got married to get used to her new Role and what was excepted of her. Also why didn’t Harry tell her what our newspapers were like in the Uk . But I suppose when you are in love and it’s all new and romantic and he is a prince you don’t take hed.

i think theoretically he spoke to her about what she was getting into. they covered this in their engagement interview. but even if he hadn't, as per meghan's interview, her close friends told her about the british tabloid press.

Originally Posted by wyevale

And yet they DID ..most people [i've talked to in the UK] think the failure to come back with the Child, and the removal of the [all important] Dogs, speaks to 'the Lady's' intention not to return at all, unless her 'Lifestyle wishlist' is met in its entirety..

'the Lady's' intention not to return at all: i think this is far from 'what most people think', it is just a fact - they just wouldn't have left archie in canada had they not thought they'd return pretty swiftly. i have yet to see a couple of parents of a baby leaving him abroad indefinitely, or for longer than absolutely needed. to me, the fact that they intended to come back is clear.

[Zaira]

Originally Posted by Ista

Agreed. One of the most alarming aspects of this entire debacle is that it is clear that no one is in charge, and that no one has either the fortitude or skill to crack the whip and bring everyone on all sides in line.

The fact that Harry (and Meghan, but I largely give her pass on this, since she doesn't have the relationships and attachments to the family and the tradition as Harry does) dared to defy the Queen and go ahead and publish the now infamous list on their website is not only alarming, it's downright terrifying in its implications.

H and M have shown that they are willing to flout the monarch's authority to get what they want, and I don't see any realistic way to rein them in. They've done it once successfully, there is absolutely nothing to stop them doing the same in the future. I say "successfully" because the Queen, Charles and William are apparently willing to bend over backwards to soothe the Sussexes down and keep them in the fold. That is never, ever going to end well, and the Sussexes show every sign of being a long term liability. Loose cannons, indeed.

Interesting reading in the press this morning, especially some of the editorials in The Times. There doesn't seem to be much softening towards the Sussexes that I can detect, so I am wondering how the inevitable concessions that H and M wrangle out of the Queen and Prince Charles are going to be viewed.

I never expected the press to be kind. Even if this had all gone smoothly, the press would still viciously attack Harry and Meghan. There is an agenda they are pushing and have for 2.5 years.

Its lose/lost for them for the media. But the BRF has, speaking just to them as a family, come back from tense moments. The Queen certainly dealt with her fair share of deep public spectacle with her sister. And if you believe the stories of reconciliation between Diana and Charles before she died then again, there is still plenty of room for things to calm and for things to heal.

I do think rather that the family is stronger with Harry (and Meghan) in it and finding some way to serve. They are an asset when it comes to the work itself. But the attacks on them were untenable (and I know not everyone agrees here that they were untoward) in the long term.

I for one am extremely excited for the media to move on to the next moment or unfortunate soul(s) of hyper fixation. The constant articles has made it all rather a slough.

[Hallo girl]

Originally Posted by Denville

Because they never intended to come back full time? They intended to come, for a few days, tell the British press and public and the RF what they have decided and then scoot off and start "part time living in Canada" but expecting to be back in the UK later to do a bit of work..
However they have found that the BRF and even more the British public are not happy with what they have seen them do and are insisting that they can't do this and one or both of them have to stay to negoitiatte some kind of settlement. I do think that they should have left Archie.. another couple of days wont do him any harm.. and Meg should be with Harry to be involved in the talks..

It is claimed they came home to have discussions , but the leaked memo forced their hand to issue the statement then download a website that had obviously been in the making for a substantial amount of time, oh and by the way they left Archie in Canada, so Meghan has had to fly back to be with him. If you intended coming home to have discussions why would you not bring your child with you.
IMO the leak was very convenient for H & M, the leak can so easy have came from their side, as they have now forced the hand of RF to deal with the situation.

[Biri]

"In my opinion, this is exactly why they should have dated longer."

If they dated longer, they probably wouldn't have had enough time to have Archie ans I am sure neither of them can imagine their life without him now.

[Hallo girl]

Originally Posted by poppy7

In the Diana 7 days documentary, William very clearly showed an understanding of Diana's games with the media. He also appeared very clear eyed about his mother , also expressing extremely diplomatically that it was unfortunate that his memories were of her being upset and feeling the need to rescue her. Also implying how unfair it was on a child. Harry talked mainly about himself and guilt. Guilt was one thing missing from William.

Thank You, I had forgotten which Documentary it was, to be honest I think I have watched them all, but I do remember what he said and the slight smile ( probably the wrong word to use ). Maybe a rye smile is the correct way to put it. He was acknowledging without mis calling his parents that a great deal of mistakes were made on all sides.

[wyevale]

the fact that they intended to come back is clear.

Perhaps you misunderstood me ? I don't doubt that she [and hopefully he] intended to be re-united with the child, but in Canada, not the UK - if her demands aren't met, I think the UK will never see her again !

[UglyAmerican]

Sorry if this is off-topic, but people keep asking about the possibility of Meghan sponsoring Harry for an American green card, and I have a bit of knowledge on the requirements. H&M would meet most of them - financial security, no criminal record, etc. - but the process itself is likely to be unworkable for them. I don’t want to spam the forum with a wall of text explaining all the ins and outs, but most likely they’d have to be separated for several years while it was pending. Harry wouldn’t be allowed to enter to the US until it was approved, and Meghan would have to live there to remain eligible to sponsor him. There are workarounds, but they aren’t much better, and they’re convoluted enough that these two seem likely to mess it up somehow. This is probably why they haven’t pursued it. Or maybe it's why they're setting up shop in Canada - they'll be able to enjoy extended visits there while they wait.

I’ll be happy to post a longer explanation if anyone’s interested.

[Claire]

Hmmm - I wonder with all the media and variation in the report. I do believe that the spin doctors are already at work, there is a lot of press already sounding like the Reputation fixers that Meghan has hired and then there might also be stuff from the Palace. Then again it all could be nonsense - made up by the press themselves.
I know the two royal reporters that have asked if they need a strategy to deal with them. Sounded very sinister and well - beyond unrealistic. But they either will go to Meghan and Harry with hat in hand to cover them in payment for positive feedback, or get friendly with the young and upcoming influences that the Sussex's choose or even do a complete break from reporting.
Whatever they choose relationships with the press for all royals has been changed drastically. Advise to BP - get a spin team and a fixer- get a whole team. If we were holding points the Sussex's are months ahead on this game and are taken no prisoners.

[Hallo girl]

Originally Posted by Zaira

I never expected the press to be kind. Even if this had all gone smoothly, the press would still viciously attack Harry and Meghan. There is an agenda they are pushing and have for 2.5 years.

Its lose/lost for them for the media. But the BRF has, speaking just to them as a family, come back from tense moments. The Queen certainly dealt with her fair share of deep public spectacle with her sister. And if you believe the stories of reconciliation between Diana and Charles before she died then again, there is still plenty of room for things to calm and for things to heal.

I do think rather that the family is stronger with Harry (and Meghan) in it and finding some way to serve. They are an asset when it comes to the work itself. But the attacks on them were untenable (and I know not everyone agrees here that they were untoward) in the long term.

I for one am extremely excited for the media to move on to the next moment or unfortunate soul(s) of hyper fixation. The constant articles has made it all rather a slough.

I accept the press has not always been kind, social media has been vile, even on here.
If this was just about the press they could have chosen to walk away from royal duty to have a private life but with charitable work as part of that private life. Still received money from the family to do all that. Or even taken a year away from royal duty.

No they have set up a new website, with a new copyright name, branded the name with goods. They do not want a quiet private life, they want to make money and raise their profile,
Then claimed their hand was forced.
Fed pet journos stories.
The latest story today from the pet journo has totally trashed the rest of the royal family. He did not do that without speaking to them first.
So it is alright for them to trash the royals but not alright for the other journos to write about them.

This was no rushed action because of a leak, this has been long in the planning.
IMo it is obvious that somebody wanted to raise the status big time, but failed to understand the royal family and how it works.

I have a horrible feeling that after the meeting tomorrow , Harry will fly to Canada and that will be it.

[Queen Claude]

Originally Posted by sm1939

Such a shame she couldn’t have had more time before she got married to get used to her new Role and what was excepted of her. Also why didn’t Harry tell her what our newspapers were like in the Uk . But I suppose when you are in love and it’s all new and romantic and he is a prince you don’t take hed.

I found Meghan's doe-eyed comment about thinking the media would be fair eye-rollingly disingenuous and one of the tells that PR strategy was being employed.

I am older than Meghan, not a public figure nor spent my adult life devising ways to become a celebrity / brand, and yet I knew about the British tabloid media. It has been known that British tabloid media is in a class of its own in terms of its relentlessness and brutality since before Meghan's birth. Furthermore Meghan experienced the British tabloid media living up to its reputation when her relationship with Harry became public and Harry ended up issuing a statement where phrases like "wave of abuse and harassment," "outright sexism and racism," and "nightly legal battles" were used.

Meghan and Harry, for their own reasons, were anxious to put rings on the other's fingers and no one was going to get in their way.

[suztav]

The crown must always win. Sad that they are both so naive to think otherwise. They will be allowed their website, but without pandering off the use of the term “royal” or using a coronet atop their monogram. Restrictions will be placed upon them.

The crown must always win. The crown will win. Sadly, Meghan will look no better than Wallis as a scheming woman.

I’m no fan of Donald Trump, but EVEN HE was diplomatic and was able to see the folly in this.

[Ista]

Originally Posted by Zaira

I never expected the press to be kind. Even if this had all gone smoothly, the press would still viciously attack Harry and Meghan. There is an agenda they are pushing and have for 2.5 years.

Its lose/lost for them for the media. But the BRF has, speaking just to them as a family, come back from tense moments. The Queen certainly dealt with her fair share of deep public spectacle with her sister. And if you believe the stories of reconciliation between Diana and Charles before she died then again, there is still plenty of room for things to calm and for things to heal.

I do think rather that the family is stronger with Harry (and Meghan) in it and finding some way to serve. They are an asset when it comes to the work itself. But the attacks on them were untenable (and I know not everyone agrees here that they were untoward) in the long term.

I for one am extremely excited for the media to move on to the next moment or unfortunate soul(s) of hyper fixation. The constant articles has made it all rather a slough.

The press is never kind to anyone, and Harry and Meghan made some missteps early on--little things, perhaps, but which accumulated over time. That doesn't excuse some of the coverage, but it does give some context.

Harry and Meghan used to be an asset. It's far from clear that they could be in the future. They may have torched that bridge: torched it and salted the earth. How can they ever be trusted again? That's the thing that made what they did with the wish list/demands so egregious. Pretty hard to come back from that.

And now they have Tom Bradby making implied threats about no-holds barred interviews if they don't get what they want, so they aren't even operating in good faith right now. It is not a good portent for their stability, reliability, or trustworthiness going forward.

[victor1319]

Originally Posted by UglyAmerican

This is probably why they haven’t pursued it. Or maybe it's why they're setting up shop in Canada - they'll be able to enjoy extended visits there while they wait.

Thank you for your contribution!



Only thing I would say, is, that Harry is no ordinary human being, but a Prince, what might count not much in America, but...


Does anybody remember the Romanov stories? I mean, NO, the Windsors are not the Romanovs! But Canada took in right a few of the Romanovs back then. Olga Alexandrovna and her husband Nikolai Kulikovsky come to mind.

[hel]

Originally Posted by Madame Verseau

DM. - rest of the royal family allegedly weighing in

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...secretary.html

If they want to look at staff members start with the one that apparently leak the Sussexes' plans to Dan Wooten and the Sun.

Dan Wootton has explicitly denied being leaked the plan by staff at KP. https://twitter.com/danwootton/statu...72178308984832

The theories here about how I got the Megxit story and who may have leaked it to me are totally untrue and highly irresponsible. When I first broke the story, LaineyGossip said it wasn’t true, so she’s an immediately discredited conspiracy theorist!

I think it's time that this speculation should stop being repeated here.

[Lumutqueen]

To me, it’s quite clear that KP didn’t leak this story. But someone in the Sussex Camp did. Henry and Meghan weren’t getting their way with negotiations and appeared to be forced to announce the information.

That’s why Archie was left in Canada, naively Meghan and Henry believed they could come back, everything would work their way and they’d hop back to Canada before all coming back smelling like roses before Henry’s engagements next week.

[wyevale]

threats about no-holds barred interviews

Blackmail is UGLY, and [via their proxies] the Sussexes grow uglier by the hour,, but if they seriously think HMQ will 'cave' out of fear of being labelled a 'racist', they are wrong - Did Michelle Obama find her so ? Do any of the COUNTLESS Commonwealth leaders she has dealt with over her reign believe her to be so ?

Any slanderous accusations cooked up in any interview will be seen [Worldwide] for the lies they are...

[evolvingdoors]

Originally Posted by UglyAmerican

Sorry if this is off-topic, but people keep asking about the possibility of Meghan sponsoring Harry for an American green card, and I have a bit of knowledge on the requirements. H&M would meet most of them - financial security, no criminal record, etc. - but the process itself is likely to be unworkable for them. I don’t want to spam the forum with a wall of text explaining all the ins and outs, but most likely they’d have to be separated for several years while it was pending. Harry wouldn’t be allowed to enter to the US until it was approved, and Meghan would have to live there to remain eligible to sponsor him. There are workarounds, but they aren’t much better, and they’re convoluted enough that these two seem likely to mess it up somehow. This is probably why they haven’t pursued it. Or maybe it's why they're setting up shop in Canada - they'll be able to enjoy extended visits there while they wait.

I’ll be happy to post a longer explanation if anyone’s interested.

As someone who lived in the US for many years, and studied the various visas, and who has many immigrant friends with American spouses: Meghan would have little issues sponsoring Harry and the process would not take several years, but at most a year. She will need to apply for a spousal green card for him. He can in the mean time live in the U.K. and continue working (or do whatever the hell he wants). It takes about a year max year and half. They can also enter the US and apply from there, but that can be tricky as Harry, who would be entering at that moment on tourist or diplomatic visa, would have to falsely say upon entering he has no plans to immigrate.
They could have gone the first route, say they were planning to retire and have decided to move to the us as private citizens. They could have continued royal work and slowly ending their commitments in the U.K., as they were waiting for Harry to be approved for his green card.

One of the two biggest issue regarding Harry having a US citizenship will be, imo, the IRS.
The second is: upon a dicvorce Harry will be screwed custody wise. And I absolutely can not see him loving living in California in the long run.

[wartenberg7]

Originally Posted by Hallo girl

It is claimed they came home to have discussions , but the leaked memo forced their hand to issue the statement then download a website that had obviously been in the making for a substantial amount of time, oh and by the way they left Archie in Canada, so Meghan has had to fly back to be with him. If you intended coming home to have discussions why would you not bring your child with you.

I don´t know if this is true, but it seems to me that Meghan is perhaps scared to face the Queen at this meeting tomorrow (and that there would be one at some stage after this announcement was obvious), so they left the baby back in Canada to have an excuse why she had to return so soon....
Still not very nice to have your hubby clean up all the mess they produced on his own...!