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  #1401  
Old 01-11-2020, 02:22 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
You’re missing my point - and I’m American, so I wasn’t trying to insult “our way”. My point was that Meghan by now should have some sort of knowledge of how things work in the BRF - it all flows through the Queen- based on Harry teaching her, showing her the ropes. However, she’s not “getting” it - she wants to do things her way, wants there to be more freedoms, less restrictions (as in America, Canada or frankly simply just outside the Monarchy). I mention America and Canada because those are the countries that H and M are dealing with now. I can only base my opinions on what I see - and what I see is that, rather than Meghan accommodating to the BRF way of life and of doing things, it’s Harry - who ought to know better - who seems to want to do things her way, which is obviously more in line with an American/Canadian way of doing things (which isn’t bad in and of itself, but it doesn’t mesh easily with the BRF way of life)


I see your point.

But every job- be it BRF, Canadian or American has rules, expectations and a company culture you’re expected to abide by- or you won’t last. Certainly the BRF has fewer options and more restrictions- and a lot of perks too- and I won’t dispute that. But doing things your way works no where. It’s ALWAYS the company way.
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  #1402  
Old 01-11-2020, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay286 View Post
It's sad for Harry and I am not saying this out of dislike for Meghan either, per se, but nothing about their marriage so far makes me think Meghan is a 'team' player, loves and supports Harry by encouraging his interests and talents, looking out for his mental health, keeping him close to those who love him. Another poster mentioned that if Harry's memories of his mother's death are triggered by the camera flashes, why not stay away from the lights and cameras? Instead, they are seeking the spotlight for their own global brand. And I agree with other posters who've said that this path seems to be Meghan's idea, not Harry's - he was interested in Africa, the Invictus Games, not necessarily global celebrityhood.

Meghan may not have the experience of being part of a functional extended family, so she finds it easy to step out on her own. But Harry has lived in England all his life, and moving to a new country away from all family except one's spouse is challenging even for people who are totally emotionally healthy. So I hope, if Canada is the country they choose, they find a comfortable home here, but honestly I don't think any of this bodes well for a lasting marriage.

My concerns exactly. I understand a lot of their reaction and I think if Harry really shares this wish to be "Important in their goodness" then it's okay. Not my kind of celebritiy, but something that already exists and will go on existing. If only Harry loves that, too!
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  #1403  
Old 01-11-2020, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post
She is weak. Over the decades, she’s seen first hand the damage her inaction to her family’s shenanigans have done to the Monarchy and still continues to behave in the exact same way.

The whole point of my initial post was that if they give in now, it may just damage the Monarchy beyond repair
Take a walk back through the history of the centuries of the British monarchy and you may have a completely different perspective.

In her handling of this H/M crisis, she is measured, calm, and totally aware of her place in history and the relative magnitude of the current trouble. Her childhood was spent watching her father face an extreme constitutional crisis in a nation about to go to war again, twenty years after the one that devasted the UK. A family crisis that also wove itself into betrayals involving the enemy at that time. A crisis that was trumpeted in the US as being totally unfair to romantic lovebirds.

She knows that the Harry and Meghan issue is a family difficulty as well as a procedural one for the monarchy/government and must be dealt with by the heirs to the Crown that will have to live with it. She also knows it comes nowhere near in importance to certain prior events in her reign or those before her.
  #1404  
Old 01-11-2020, 02:29 PM
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I don't see why any of the press criticism is supposed to be racist. All new royals get hassle from the press. "Waity Katie." "The Duchess of Pork." "Sophie and the Fake Sheikh." Peter and Autumn, who have never been working royals and don't take a penny in taxpayers' money, were criticised for selling their wedding photos to Hello. Anyone in the public eye gets this - sports players, politicians, pop stars, actors, and especially politicians - and it's not just in the UK either. And there was universal praise in the wedding coverage for Doria Ragland.


The press have got narky because Harry and Meghan have done things in a strange way, like refusing to name Archie's godparents, and they've also got caught up in this whole "culture war" thing, lecturing people about how many children they should have, and going by private jet to conferences on climate change. I certainly wouldn't like all the press criticism and it can't be nice to live with, but it's not about racism.
  #1405  
Old 01-11-2020, 02:35 PM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
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The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

Apparently the Sunday papers have more “big developments” on H&M coming tomorrow.
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  #1406  
Old 01-11-2020, 02:37 PM
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The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

I’m not black nor am I bi-racial, so I don’t have the same experiences as Meghan. However, I saw nothing but respect and inclusion extended by the Queen, the POW, and the entire royal family toward Meghan and Doria.

Don’t use racism as an excuse for what could and should only be described as childish, immature behavior by two adults.

JMHO
  #1407  
Old 01-11-2020, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
The meal ticket wants to ensure they are getting a share of the income
What does this even mean? Meghan has always been extremely hard-working, so far as I know from her biography. It seems to me that they are cutting ties with any taxpayer-funded income streams.

Just about every black person I've known to express an opinion is not at all surprised by this, given the out-of-control lies that have been published about this couple.
  #1408  
Old 01-11-2020, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
I see your point.

But every job- be it BRF, Canadian or American has rules, expectations and a company culture you’re expected to abide by- or you won’t last. Certainly the BRF has fewer options and more restrictions- and a lot of perks too- and I won’t dispute that. But doing things your way works no where. It’s ALWAYS the company way.
Of course. Where did I say this wasn’t the case ? This is why the half Royal thing won’t work - they shouldn’t get to pick and choose which parts of being Royal they accept or reject based on their personal desires. Everyone in the BRF works hard and, no doubt, often does things they prefer not to do or does things when they aren’t feeling well. They make sacrifices because that’s just how it is - they are committed to public service; duty is everything to them.
  #1409  
Old 01-11-2020, 02:49 PM
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Its being reported [in the New York Times] that the Prince of Wales has asked the Duke of Sussex to repay the cost of renovation Frogmore Cottage..

IF true, it rather sounds like they won't be living here at all...
  #1410  
Old 01-11-2020, 02:49 PM
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apparently, conversations over H&M are 'progressing well':

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51074844

oh, to be a fly on the wall in those conversations...! wouldn't it be interesting to hear everyone's point of view?
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  #1411  
Old 01-11-2020, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
When all of this blows up in Harry's face one day, I believe the royal family would take him back, but only when he realizes what is really happening.
An example of a royal who completely broke with her family but was taken back is princess Margarita de Bourbon de Parme. She of course was never supposed to be a working member of the family but relations were extremely sour for a while (during her first marriage); since she left her first husband she will surely have apologized profoundly for her erratic behavior and now seems to be an appreciate member of the wider royal family; even appearing with her aunt (princess Beatrix) that she treated extremely badly at various events.

So, a good example of how bad relationships within a royal family can be repaired.
  #1412  
Old 01-11-2020, 03:04 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
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...

Quote:
Originally Posted by suztav View Post
I’m not black nor am I bi-racial, so I don’t have the same experiences as Meghan. However, I saw nothing but respect and inclusion extended by the Queen, the POW, and the entire royal family toward Meghan and Doria.

Don’t use racism as an excuse for what could and should only be described as childish, immature behavior by two adults.

JMHO

I don't think "racism" happened in the Royal family, but in the media it did.
  #1413  
Old 01-11-2020, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlota View Post
apparently, conversations over H&M are 'progressing well':

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51074844

oh, to be a fly on the wall in those conversations...! wouldn't it be interesting to hear everyone's point of view?



The fact that the talks are even taking place (involving the four households, the British government and the Canadian government) and that the Queen, according to the DM (take it with a grain of salt !), instructed that they be wrapped up in 72 hours is evidence that Harry and Meghan's temper tantrum has already worked (at least partially) for them. I find that sad.



I understand Charles' strategic thinking on the matter and the need to keep H&M in the fold, but I hope it is not another case of parents not knowing how to handle their spoiled kids.
  #1414  
Old 01-11-2020, 03:10 PM
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lea lea is offline
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Personally, I think this is mostly Harry. I do believe that Meghan has had an influence on him, but not in the Disney evil villain way that so many seem to think. I think she is perhaps the first person since his Mother died that hasn’t advised him to keep a stiff upper lip no matter the circumstances. As she said publicly, it’s not okay to just survive.

William saw the example of the Middleton family and I do hope that will allow he and Catherine to maintain a happy, healthy home life. Harry has seen an example, from Meghan, of someone who has built a happy, healthy life for herself in spite of a dysfunctional family.

It’s not surprising that Harry feels empowered to insist on change. I wish it could have been done without all of the drama and I’m quite sure everyone involved does as well. But for whatever reason something happened to make him feel he had no choice but to act. He’s human. He’s not all bad or all good, nor is Meghan or the rest of the royal family. They’ve all made mistakes and I hope they can work something out that bridges the differences and doesn’t compromise the health and well-being of anyone.
  #1415  
Old 01-11-2020, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post
IMO, The “complex” and “requires a lot of work” is getting multiple governments to agree to foot the bill
That is surely part of it. But the complexities and requiring work is also the BRF and the Sussexes coming to an agreement. It didn't seem they were anywhere near. It seems they still had to meet with Charles and the queen to discuss it.

I'd say that anyone who has followed royalty for a while would see the issues with the plans the Sussexes proposed on their website.
  #1416  
Old 01-11-2020, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlota View Post
apparently, conversations over H&M are 'progressing well':

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51074844

oh, to be a fly on the wall in those conversations...! wouldn't it be interesting to hear everyone's point of view?
I also wanted to be a fly on the wall to hear these conversations.
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  #1417  
Old 01-11-2020, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
That assumes the York girls would even want to step in. They’ve built lives outside of being FT members of the Firm. PT or FT- it’s presumptuous to assume they want to step in because Harry and Meghan decided not to live up to the commitment they made.
I hope this will not happen and think so, too.
No one wants Sarah's influence back and her daughters are the same spoilt sort of royals like Harry.
No, zhis is not the solution for filling an eventual gap.
  #1418  
Old 01-11-2020, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marlene View Post
If Harry and Meghan do decide to reside in Canada on a more permanent basis the only way Harry could stay legally would be if he got some kind of diplomatic status from the British embassy because he would never qualify to immigrate here.
Would Prince Harry and Meghan eventually have to become citizens of Canada?
  #1419  
Old 01-11-2020, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lea View Post
Personally, I think this is mostly Harry. I do believe that Meghan has had an influence on him, but not in the Disney evil villain way that so many seem to think. I think she is perhaps the first person since his Mother died that hasn’t advised him to keep a stiff upper lip no matter the circumstances. As she said publicly, it’s not okay to just survive.

William saw the example of the Middleton family and I do hope that will allow he and Catherine to maintain a happy, healthy home life. Harry has seen an example, from Meghan, of someone who has built a happy, healthy life for herself in spite of a dysfunctional family.

It’s not surprising that Harry feels empowered to insist on change. I wish it could have been done without all of the drama and I’m quite sure everyone involved does as well. But for whatever reason something happened to make him feel he had no choice but to act. He’s human. He’s not all bad or all good, nor is Meghan or the rest of the royal family. They’ve all made mistakes and I hope they can work something out that bridges the differences and doesn’t compromise the health and well-being of anyone.
Exactly my thinking. Everyone is so quick to blame Meghan because it fits the narrative they want to push (she is bad news). Let's think back about some of the things Harry said before he met Meghan. This is someone who said he did not want to be king, he hated the whole thing, and would never forgive the press. So why are we blaming the girl when he finally decides to challenge the firm? Meghan was not responsible for any of those things. History is going to look back and our treatment of her will make her seems so much bigger (influence) than she actually is. What are we afraid of when it comes to her?

Reading through a lot of the comments posted here tells me most of those posters are older than me, I am in my mid 30's for those who want to know. I see most wanted Harry to marry someone who would put their head down, be a good girl, be submissive and don't question anything [...]Harry would not be happy in such a union for sure.

Harry was going to challenge the status quo no matter what, he needed the right partner a strong individual who could walk the path with him, enters Meghan. In Meghan, Harry saw a woman he could go to war with, I am convinced its the main reason he jumps and rushed things so fast. You can see Meghan's influence and that scares everyone, especially those who already did not like her. Look at all the criticism of her, they are mostly rooted in either her self-confidence, lack of following those made up protocol made up mostly by the press or race. They are really a bunch of nonsense reasons.
  #1420  
Old 01-11-2020, 03:52 PM
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An interesting article on the CBC website about Harry's legal problems with immigration to Canada.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/princ...nada-1.5423395

En passant, the article mentions the recent ruling of the Canadian courts (discussed here on TRF) that Canada does not have any domestic law on succession to the Crown (unlike Australia or New Zealand). Basically, the Canadian courts simply ruled that the person who occupies the British throne is ex-officio also the King or Queen of Canada, but the mechanism by which he or she ascends the throne is a matter solely of British law. The implication, according to the constitutional expert who was interviewed, is that, in addition to members of the RF other than the Queen having no recognized public role under the constitution of Canada, they can't even claim special status for being in the line of succession because no such thing exists in Canada (again according to the Canadian courts so far; that ruling, as mentioned here, was controversial and disputed).



Canada is indeed a strange monarchy !


EDIT: Of course, that discussion is mostly academic. In practice, we know members of the RF like the PoW or the DoC do tours of Canada where they are clearly recognized as having a constitutional role in the country as successors to the Crown , and many members of the RF (including "minor royals") have Canadian patronages, links to Canadian regiments, etc.
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