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  #1381  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post
I think this begins the end of the BRF! Not because of Harry and Meghan but because EII is a VERY weak head of family.

It seems that the British public wants swift action on this and they are not going to get it. EII has spent her entire life avoiding confrontation, hard decisions about family until it is too late and a lot of damage has been inflicted.

As a grandmother she is right to want to do what is best for Harry and keep him happy. But as the Head of the Firm, she needs to listen to her shareholders (British Public) and take action immediately.

As the hours tick by, it is becoming obvious that they are trying to find a solution where Harry and Meghan will leave with their titles, styles and public money paid security protection in multiple countries while doing only the BRF events they want and blatantly monetizing their titles.

It seems that there is already significant public demands that they be stripped of all titles and styles and no public funds be used on them. Having them swan the world on taxpayer funds will not go down well with the public (with the impending Brexit magnifying the situation). This will create significant backlash against the BRF and it might just be too late for them to do anything to quiet the discontent.
You mistake the Queen's maturity, experience and diplomacy of which she is a master to being "weak". She isn't one to yell, stomp her foot or make rash decisions. when she does make a decision is based on many other factors than you or I living in the United States would possibly know. This also is not her decision alone. There are many more involved and much more at stake than just the BRF in this crises.

I don't agree with giving Harry and Megan everything they want because I think it would be dangerous to do so. They are loose canons and unpredictable. I think they will try to compromise, and if that doesn't work then we shall see.
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  #1382  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post
I don’t think they thought this out to that extent.


True. Their wish list/demands shows how little thought out this truly was. Which is why it was foolish- and thoughtless to everyone involved- to publish it.
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  #1383  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post
This is Meghan’s understanding of the BRF. Celebrities “collaborate” with brands and she thinks the Queen and the BRF are a brand. IMO, she never has or never wanted to, understand what being Royal really means


I think you are correct. Celebrities are brands the royals exist beyond that because the monarchy is generational and based on history and tradition not your latest movie.

It’s very sad for everyone involved.
  #1384  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
Well- as an American, it’s pretty well understood. Immigration is a pretty sensitive topic these days. Most people here anyway are crystal clear it’s not that simple.

I guess it also depends on how exactly they plan to divide their time between countries. They’re supposedly not planning to be in Canada all the time.

That said- how is this supposed to work with Archie and school in a few years? Splitting time like this.
Surely everyone knows that all coutntries have laws about immigration or getting permission to live in then? You can't just pack your bags and wlak in to most places. In former times, it might be possible for rules to be bent for Royals like the Sussexes but now it is goig to look bad, if they are allowed to move to say Canada... when other people are prohibited...
  #1385  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Absolutely believe the issue is not their desire to move away, or to continue to represent the Queen or to work for their own foundation. Its the stated aim to be "financially independent" -which could quite potentially cause conflicts on interest- and once again when it comes to H&M, the way it has been done, that is causing issues.

Again, I don't see at all why they had to announce this now, without an agreement from all parties. They can't even say they've given the RF time to sort through it, apparently Harry told Charles on Christmas Eve he definitely wanted to step away. Most people would recognise that over the holiday period is no time to put a plan in place while staff are on holiday etc.

If H&M could have found it in themselves to wait it could have been announced in a joint statement from HM, Charles and Harry with clear answers to these complex issues and, yes of course there would have been major media interest, but the answers to all these speculations would have already been made clear.

On the visa issues etc, is there a way they could stay if they are running their Foundation from there? If the Foundation employs them as CEOs would that count as work/employment? Maybe they have thought this part through and are just going to visit for 5 months at a time?
Yes indeed. Remember when they wanted to break away and be separate only to be pulled in under the umbrella of office in BP......seems to me, this is their slick response to that. Move away for financial independence =perks, an allowance, and most of all, no oversight to make millions.
  #1386  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
This statement of "collaborate with the Queen" reeks to me of arrogance. Members of the Royal Family do not "collaborate" with the Queen. She is the boss and they do what she tells them, or they are supposed to.
Oh lord, THAT

This was the most stupid, idiotic thing in their entire website. They'll be collaborating with the Queen. Like it's their choice. Like it's a relationship between equal participants and not employer-employee.

Sadly, I really don't think Meghan learned during her relationship with Harry what the BRF truly is and how things work, how to treat this institution with the respect it deserves.
  #1387  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post
As the hours tick by, it is becoming obvious that they are trying to find a solution where Harry and Meghan will leave with their titles, styles and public money paid security protection in multiple countries while doing only the BRF events they want and blatantly monetizing their titles.
If that had been the plan all along, BP could have issued a statement Wednesday night stating that all what Harry and Meghan wanted as presented on their website was indeed how things would work out in the future. Instead they emphasized that it was 'in an early stage', 'complex' and required a lot of work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
The definition of the word you chose to describe The Princess Royals work is "lacking interest or excitement; dull". You chose the word, not me.
I do indeed think that a lot of her work is 'lacking interest or excitement' for most; however, that is something different than thinking it is not worthwhile. But I see how it might have come across as such.

Quote:
In regards to the "more involvement", whilst I can't imagine that any royal is able to name all their patronages and the people who are linked to them. I can certainly imagine that Anne is heavily involved in public and behind the scenes. Case in point is her involvement in the Scottish Rugby Union, she attends every six nations match of there's when another engagement is not booked in advance, she shows commitment to former and previous players her message and presenting on an award to Doddie Weir last year is also proof of this. She doesn't just cut ribbons and walks away, which is my interpretation of what you're saying.
I am sure there are several organizations that she is more involved with. However, there are also many organizations that will probably see her once a year or even much less but still appreciate that she is visiting them.

Quote:
I, personally, and I believe others as well do not see William, Catherine, Henry nor Meghan as full time working royals. They are senior royals, but they simply do not do enough engagements to represent the crown. Whilst I imagine it will increase year on year, it should have increased faster than it has. The reason being is unknown, it's be thrown around that is because The Queen wanted her grandchildren to have time to be just that before stepping into royal life. They're all approaching 40 now, they've had time IMO.

Henry clearly didn't see this future for himself, however I disagree that this wasn't what the RF nor his father planned for him.
Their different approach is indeed up for interpretation. My take is that they purposefully were doing more behind the scenes work and less visits; not doing little work - just a very different approach. And so far, they were given the space to explore this new way of doing royal work.
  #1388  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by toukale View Post
At the risk of sounding dumb since I and everyone else is basing our opinion on things, we have little to no knowledge of what is going on I will try to stick to facts and not let my emotions get the best of me. I've never read so much about something that was not a homework/work assignment that also has nothing to do with me. From everything I've read so far, the Sussexes are trying to work out something not only for themselves but a template the firm can use for all future royal second-born. It was inevitable at some point a second-born was going to challenge the status quo.

The way things currently stand is great for the first in line, but terrible for the second-born later in their lives. Look back at the history of second-born and tell me which one has flourished past their 40/50 years of life. Its almost as if the firm uses them to enhance the Monarchy standing then toss them to the side once the heir kids are old enough to attract tons of interest in the papers, at which point the firm says, "thank you for your service" now get the hell out. I know I would be pissed if I work for a company for 20-30years and they treated that way.

Contrary to what was first reported, the firm knew about the Sussexes situation, they did not know all the details, but they knew. So the reports about the palace not knowing that was first reported are wrong. Someone in the palace leak the story to the sun, as usual, to try to make the Sussexes look bad and also trying to control the narrative at which point the Sussexes gave them the finger and went nuclear. I would have done the same in their shoe. That's one of the problem with the firm, someone in their camp is always trying to control the narrative against the Sussexes and this time they were ready for it.
Well...you have a definite point of view. Sympathetic to all second-born, acknowledging that it's a tough position to hold. I think most people here would agree with that.

As for the rest....nah, I'll leave it at that. You'll get the lay of the land soon enough.
  #1389  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Fem View Post
Oh lord, THAT

This was the most stupid, idiotic thing in their entire website. They'll be collaborating with the Queen. Like it's their choice. Like it's a relationship between equal participants and not employer-employee.

Sadly, I really don't think Meghan learned during her relationship with Harry what the BRF truly is and how things work, how to treat this institution with the respect it deserves.
It doesn’t seem as if Harry taught her the ropes very well. It looks more like Meghan is trying to teach him the American (or Canadian) way, actually ....and succeeding, based on his behavior.
  #1390  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
I agree about the "loose cannon" element, I mean with the best will in the world would the Household and indeed the UK government really agree to send them on anymore overseas tours for example. The last one was hardly a success by the end and the possibility of them going "off script" is just too much I would imagine.
I agree. While the Australian tour was a winner, the African tour not as much—and the documentary totally lost any focus on Africa, instead to the Sussexes personally. I do not see the government asking them to undertake any formal tours in the future-maybe a one off event.
  #1391  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Helen.CH View Post
And it is not any dislike of Meghan but my personal and professional experience that tells me that this Sussex marriage is not to last long, with these two characters. One can only hope that H' mental problems will not lead him into catastrophy. M is going to survive all that, I do not fear anything for her really.
It's sad for Harry and I am not saying this out of dislike for Meghan either, per se, but nothing about their marriage so far makes me think Meghan is a 'team' player, loves and supports Harry by encouraging his interests and talents, looking out for his mental health, keeping him close to those who love him. Another poster mentioned that if Harry's memories of his mother's death are triggered by the camera flashes, why not stay away from the lights and cameras? Instead, they are seeking the spotlight for their own global brand. And I agree with other posters who've said that this path seems to be Meghan's idea, not Harry's - he was interested in Africa, the Invictus Games, not necessarily global celebrityhood.

Meghan may not have the experience of being part of a functional extended family, so she finds it easy to step out on her own. But Harry has lived in England all his life, and moving to a new country away from all family except one's spouse is challenging even for people who are totally emotionally healthy. So I hope, if Canada is the country they choose, they find a comfortable home here, but honestly I don't think any of this bodes well for a lasting marriage.
  #1392  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Surely everyone knows that all coutntries have laws about immigration or getting permission to live in then? You can't just pack your bags and wlak in to most places. In former times, it might be possible for rules to be bent for Royals like the Sussexes but now it is goig to look bad, if they are allowed to move to say Canada... when other people are prohibited...



I appreciate all the discussion on this forum on immigration issues and I agree it is a matter that has to be sorted out, but let's be realistic: it is not something that the Brits and the Canadians cannot work out if they want to. If you recall, Mary Donaldson and Máxima Zorreguieta were given citizenship in a very short period of time (was it by an act of Parliament ?) literally jumping the line (or "jumping the queue" as the Brits and the Canadians would say). The only question here is the political fallout of doing that.


As pointed out, Meghan has connections in the Canadian government (she is allegedly close to Justin Trudeau) and Harry is the grandson of the Queen of Canada and, hence, in the line of succession to the Canadian throne. Before I get flamed, I know that all of the above does not give them any special status as far as immigration law is concerned and that Canada is not a corrupt third-world republic where the friends of the rulers get special favors. In fact, I think I was the first person here to say that the Canadian constitution assigns a public role in Canada to the Queen, but none to Harry. I am just saying that, realistically, their situation will be looked at and a legally valid solution will be actively pursued . In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they are already looking at it right now.


As I said, the government may have to deal with the political fallout later, but, considering that 63 % of the Canadians would accept Harry as Governor General (!) in that newspaper poll, maybe the PM is not too concerned about that.
  #1393  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
I thought about this too. Cut off the funding to Harry and Meghan and let the York Princess step in.


That assumes the York girls would even want to step in. They’ve built lives outside of being FT members of the Firm. PT or FT- it’s presumptuous to assume they want to step in because Harry and Meghan decided not to live up to the commitment they made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
It doesn’t seem as if Harry taught her the ropes very well. It looks more like Meghan is trying to teach him the American (or Canadian) way, actually ....and succeeding, based on his behavior.


I don’t think that’s fair to Americans or Canadians.
  #1394  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
If that had been the plan all along, BP could have issued a statement Wednesday night stating that all what Harry and Meghan wanted as presented on their website was indeed how things would work out in the future. Instead they emphasized that it was 'in an early stage', 'complex' and required a lot of work.
IMO, The “complex” and “requires a lot of work” is getting multiple governments to agree to foot the bill

Quote:
Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
You mistake the Queen's maturity, experience and diplomacy of which she is a master to being "weak". She isn't one to yell, stomp her foot or make rash decisions. when she does make a decision is based on many other factors than you or I living in the United States would possibly know. This also is not her decision alone. There are many more involved and much more at stake than just the BRF in this crises.

I don't agree with giving Harry and Megan everything they want because I think it would be dangerous to do so. They are loose canons and unpredictable. I think they will try to compromise, and if that doesn't work then we shall see.
She is weak. Over the decades, she’s seen first hand the damage her inaction to her family’s shenanigans have done to the Monarchy and still continues to behave in the exact same way.

The whole point of my initial post was that if they give in now, it may just damage the Monarchy beyond repair
  #1395  
Old 01-11-2020, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post

As I said, the government may have to deal with the political fallout later, but, considering that 63 % of the Canadians would accept Harry as Governor General (!) in that newspaper poll, maybe the PM is not too concerned about that.
Well, in fairness to Canadians, I don't think the poll mentioned anything about immigration-queue-jumping or Canadian taxpayers paying for their security...It would be interesting to see the results a few weeks now when people have time to digest some news commentary.

Or maybe it wouldn't make that much of a difference, as people are probably responding this way out of interest in Harry as a "celebrity."
  #1396  
Old 01-11-2020, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
That assumes the York girls would even want to step in. They’ve built lives outside of being FT members of the Firm. PT or FT- it’s presumptuous to assume they want to step in because Harry and Meghan decided not to live up to the commitment they made.
i can only answer for myself----presumptuous or not, I think it would be a good move for them, even if only for a limited time.
  #1397  
Old 01-11-2020, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by rmay286 View Post
Well, in fairness to Canadians, I don't think the poll mentioned anything about immigration-queue-jumping or Canadian taxpayers paying for their security...It would be interesting to see the results a few weeks now when people have time to digest some news commentary.

Or maybe it wouldn't make that much of a difference, as people are probably responding this way out of interest in Harry as a "celebrity."
THIS^^^

If Harry is chosen to be GG, the PM who recommends that will end their political career that very day.
  #1398  
Old 01-11-2020, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
I don’t think that’s fair to Americans or Canadians.
You’re missing my point - and I’m American, so I wasn’t trying to insult “our way”. My point was that Meghan by now should have some sort of knowledge of how things work in the BRF - it all flows through the Queen- based on Harry teaching her, showing her the ropes. However, she’s not “getting” it - she wants to do things her way, wants there to be more freedoms, less restrictions (as in America, Canada or frankly simply just outside the Monarchy). I mention America and Canada because those are the countries that H and M are dealing with now. I can only base my opinions on what I see - and what I see is that, rather than Meghan accommodating to the BRF way of life and of doing things, it’s Harry - who ought to know better - who seems to want to do things her way, which is obviously more in line with an American/Canadian way of doing things (which isn’t bad in and of itself, but it doesn’t mesh easily with the BRF way of life)
  #1399  
Old 01-11-2020, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
I agree. The should not be allowed to call their brand "Sussex Royal." They should be required to take the "Royal" off of it. That is, if they truly want to be independent.

It is up to the queen under UK law if they are allowed to use the Prefix Royal. If the queen had said n o, they wouldn't be allowed. And she can take it away the moment she feels they are commercializing in a tacky way on their titles. Thus far they have done nothing untoward.

And I say it again: the way the media has put the word "taxpayer's money" against anything they got (and on things they didn't get from the taxpayer but from their landlord which is the estate created and inherited by Harry's ancestors) would have led me as well to seek "financial independency" - not from Charles but from the "taxpayer" and the media who always cries out for any money that is given to people who they think were born to slave away for the taxpayers. This is not how Royal life works!
Yes, Harry got more money than most Britons. Yes, he is a HRH. But it's not a sytsem created by him he profits from. We all live within the means of the money our parents have till we earn our own, but then we still get money from them if they chose to. Till we inherit. That's what Harry does.
And he as the only once active soldier of his generation should not get protection only because he has his own ideas how to live, like we all do??
  #1400  
Old 01-11-2020, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyGlendower View Post
This. If you were thinking about this as staffing a company the two of them working part time might fulfill one full time position. Even though they are not considered senior royals they are the granddaughters of the current monarch. One of them is already married/settled and the other soon will be.

And if I were one of them I might want to help rehabilitate the York "sub brand" of the BRF!
I think Eugenie would make a great addition to the working royal team. Beatrice too, but Beatrice seems to be more inclined to live a private life than Eugenie.

It would depend on whether the Queen asks them and whether they would want to give up their jobs, but they have my vote of support. And it would be a good way of rehabilitating the "York" image as you say.
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