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  #1361  
Old 01-11-2020, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fem View Post
I doubt the idea of Heads Together - or openly talking about mental health instead of hiding with their problems - is running to a paper or a tv station because you have issues with your brother. If you understood their message in that way, could you maybe explain which part of their activity told anything about airing your dirty laundry on a tv?

Missing engagements is not the only way people can prove unreliable. And you fully well know they do not, which is why you're using this example to prove your point. So, to answer this question - no, they're not missing any engagements.
First off the rumors about the brothers had been going on months. Harry did not run to the media about that. He was asked and he made it clear they would always be brothers and support one another.

Them mentioning they were struggling (which Harry has done before) is not airing dirty laundry. This attitude is exactly what they are supposed to be working against with their HT campaign.

No one yet has shown they are unreliable. Have they made some 'bad' decisions yes. Them wanting to step back and change how they work within the family does not make them unreliable. They've made it very clear they intend to continue/want to continue with their engagements and patronages and then some. They aren't shirking work to go off and live on a yatch.


LaRae
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  #1362  
Old 01-11-2020, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
First off the rumors about the brothers had been going on months. Harry did not run to the media about that. He was asked and he made it clear they would always be brothers and support one another.

Them mentioning they were struggling (which Harry has done before) is not airing dirty laundry. This attitude is exactly what they are supposed to be working against with their HT campaign.

No one yet has shown they are unreliable. Have they made some 'bad' decisions yes. Them wanting to step back and change how they work within the family does not make them unreliable. They've made it very clear they intend to continue/want to continue with their engagements and patronages and then some. They aren't shirking work to go off and live on a yatch.


LaRae
Well... He kind of did, it was on TV. And to me, it's airing dirty laundry. You want to talk about struggling and mental health? Sure. Talk. But maybe not to the media (that you hate so much), but go for a pint with your brother and talk things through. Go to therapy. And don't use talking about mental health, PTSD and your own, dead mother in a ploy - that actually didn't even work - to gain sympathy from the public.

And with the other stuff, I'll just repeat my earlier post:
As far as the unreliable part... To me, they did. Coming forward with this plan while they were asked to wait a bit until a solid plan will be in place is unreliable as hell. And before you'll yell at me that this is just tabloid gossip, if BP/CH/KP were ready for the Sussexes to come forward with their plan, EVERYTHING would already be in place. Meghan running away to Canada and leaving Harry to come up with a solution - unreliable. Once again making a mess out of a situation that could be resolved maybe not more quietly, but definitely in a calmer way - unreliable.

Not to mention, it might not be possible for them to continue with their royal duties - oh sorry, collaborating with HMQ - while they're being "financially independent" and making "professional income", depending on what kind of business activity they have in mind.
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  #1363  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
Informing everyone they were taking what basically amounted to six weeks of stress leave and using that time to come up with and release a plan for them to step back that included no input from the BRF? Releasing the statement without informing his father or his grandmother and sovereign first? How is any of that reliable?

I think we know now that they informed the queen and the PoW about their wish and they were working on arrangements, when the info was leaked. So interna of their wishes became public before the PR machinery of the Palace could clean it up. Everything else was just the media reporting evil nonsense. The queen and Charles knew and have tried to help.
  #1364  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
The York sisters are ready and willing to be senior/working Royals but are not permitted, the Sussexes are senior/working Royals and don't want to be.

Oh, the irony!
I thought about this too. Cut off the funding to Harry and Meghan and let the York Princess step in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Quite - 'application' and hard work are clearly anathema to the 'Duchess' - i'm delighted , and millions of Brits will feel the same this evening..

I hope they will be renouncing their Titles, and starting their new life as Mr & Mrs. Mountbatten-Windsor
I believe they should give up their titles, the HRH status, and Prince Charles should stop funding them with the Duchy of Cornwall. Let them be independent. I believe Harry will deeply regret this decision one day.
  #1365  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I've never said that they are not needed. It was always clear that Charles was working towards the RF being him, his wife, and his heir and Kate, supported by Harry and HIs wife..adn the oter Royals who have been part of the show would retire as they grew older. None of them are being replaced by their children who have tehir own private lives. But if Charles cannot get H and Meg to play their part, he will have to cut back further. they may be "needed" technically but they are too unrelaiable.

This talk about a "sllimed-down monarchy" appears to be a red herring created by Team Sussex to justify their unjustifiable behavior (US spelling). But, anyway, giving them the benefit of the doubt and tying this discussion to what I said in the "How many working royals are needed " forum, I don't think there is any realistic possibility that Harry and Meghan would be sidelined during Charles' reign. However, I believe Harry might have had concerns that he will be out when William is King and George/Charlotte are in their early 30s and ready to take full-time royal duties and maybe married. Keep in mind Harry will be still a fairly young 60-year-old by that time.



Personally, I don't think Harry's fears (if they actually exist) are justified, but I believe the rumors that his problems are with his brother and sister-in-law, more so than with his father.
  #1366  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amaryllus View Post
Live on his personal money left to him and her own money presumably. Heck, He can get a job if need be! Plenty of minor Royals and Royal relations have them.

But if they happen to seriously think they can sustain their current lifestyle indefinitely on private money they may be in for shock. And for sure using Royal connections for projects, philanthropy and charity should stop.
I agree. The should not be allowed to call their brand "Sussex Royal." They should be required to take the "Royal" off of it. That is, if they truly want to be independent.
  #1367  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:06 PM
Lilyflo's Avatar
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In answer to the poster asking for people's views, I made a longish post yesterday - it's good so do read it Today I asked my daughter, who is the same age as Harry & Meghan. She said that she thinks H&M could lose support amongst her generation of Brits because most of them are budgeting to pay their mortgages (many are still renting), juggling young children with work, paying off their student loans, leaving them with a limited disposable income for high expense items like holidays, new cars, designer clothes etc. She really likes all the young royals but says they are incredibly privileged already & shouldn't seek to make themselves even richer through commercial deals.

She's glad they're taking legal action about the lies & defamation & is appalled by the extent of vitriol that's been poured on Meghan in the last 2 years. As a young Mum herself, she feels huge empathy with her & stresses how vulnerable you can feel. She remarked that Meghan is on a different continent to her closest friends & her Mum & how isolating that could be.

She also added that she thinks Meghan has been a bit 'too much' from the start. She cited her doing most of the talking in the engagement interview & 'doing her own thing' before she learnt how to be a BRF member. She thinks Meghan should have been quieter, less focused on her own goals (at least publicly) & spent more time shadowing the Queen, Princess Anne etc. She admires her work ethic & loves the charity work she's done but says it's too much, too quickly, & too focused on Meghan's own agenda.

In conclusion, she hopes they stay within the BRF and thinks if they go down the commercial route, they'll just be celebrities & will have squandered their 'royalness'.

Apologies if the above is a bit rambly but our conversation took place while attempting to entertain two under-5s!
  #1368  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:07 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
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The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
First off the rumors about the brothers had been going on months. Harry did not run to the media about that. He was asked and he made it clear they would always be brothers and support one another.

Them mentioning they were struggling (which Harry has done before) is not airing dirty laundry. This attitude is exactly what they are supposed to be working against with their HT campaign.

No one yet has shown they are unreliable. Have they made some 'bad' decisions yes. Them wanting to step back and change how they work within the family does not make them unreliable. They've made it very clear they intend to continue/want to continue with their engagements and patronages and then some. They aren't shirking work to go off and live on a yatch.


LaRae


Harry was asked the question by his good friend reporter. The same one who is running around as their mouthpiece now. This topic was completely avoidable imo. Again- who care about the rumors. No need to confirm. It was no oneís business.

Thereís talking about mental health to friends, family and counselors- and thereís whining and clearly trying to get sympathy from a world wide audience that youíre miserable and donít get along with your brother. Thatís all that was in my view. It was a warm up for this announcement.

Anyway- thatís a bit OT- though I think that interview was all about getting sympathy in advance for this move.

This entire mess smacks of unreliability. Itís a family business. They canít just hire anyone to replace the void. You commit to FT and in very short order drop out. Youíre unreliable when you just go off and announce youíre stepping back and give details that havenít been agreed upon to the world without prior notice. It makes them un-trustworthy. Which is also being unreliable.

Of course- theyíre not missing engagements. For obvious reasons.
  #1369  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:08 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Making bad decisions leads to unreliability.
They have beyond a doubt proven they are not only unreliable but untrustworthy as well.
  #1370  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victor1319 View Post
"After many months of reflection and internal discussions, we have chosen to make a transition this year in starting to carve out a progressive new role within this institution. We intend to step back as ‘senior’ members of the Royal Family and work to become financially independent, while continuing to fully support Her Majesty the Queen...

We look forward to sharing the full details of this exciting next step in due course, as we continue to collaborate with Her Majesty The Queen, The Prince of Wales, The Duke of Cambridge and all relevant parties. Until then, please accept our deepest thanks for your continued support."
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/...-senior-royals


What? So, they want to continue to "support the Queen" and "continue to collaborate with Her Majesty The Queen, The Prince of Wales, The Duke of Cambridge and all relevant parties" but be independent?

Sorry, sounds half baked to me!

More like: We want to live off out titles... A new Mšrtha Luise of Norway thingy incoming...
This statement of "collaborate with the Queen" reeks to me of arrogance. Members of the Royal Family do not "collaborate" with the Queen. She is the boss and they do what she tells them, or they are supposed to.
  #1371  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
I think we know now that they informed the queen and the PoW about their wish and they were working on arrangements, when the info was leaked. So interna of their wishes became public before the PR machinery of the Palace could clean it up. Everything else was just the media reporting evil nonsense. The queen and Charles knew and have tried to help.


Why does it matter if it was leaked? Where does that give them the right to uni- laterally announce this and blindside the family with their decision to do so? Stuff is leaked all the time. They could have dealt with that as a cohesive unit.

And leak or no leak- that website was thoroughly unnecessary until real decisions had been made.
  #1372  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
The definition of the word you chose to describe The Princess Royals work is "lacking interest or excitement; dull". You chose the word, not me.

In regards to the "more involvement", whilst I can't imagine that any royal is able to name all their patronages and the people who are linked to them. I can certainly imagine that Anne is heavily involved in public and behind the scenes. Case in point is her involvement in the Scottish Rugby Union, she attends every six nations match of there's when another engagement is not booked in advance, she shows commitment to former and previous players her message and presenting on an award to Doddie Weir last year is also proof of this. She doesn't just cut ribbons and walks away, which is my interpretation of what you're saying. .
I have been told that Edward pretty much has a full time job just with the Duke of Edinburgh Awards and Anne with the Save the Children. It is not reported and therefore not know. They do not shine a light of their involvement enough - but they are happy to do so. But those charities will suffer terribly if they are forced to send less time with them.
  #1373  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:15 PM
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While I was all up in arms and gung ho for Charles to not fund Harry at all, I have to admit that itís complicated by Harry being his son. Charles is in no way going to completely cut Harry off - Iím sure a workable solution will be found that isnít tantamount to caving in.

As to a ďslimmed downĒ monarchy, it just seems to me that despite Harryís hapoy-go-lucky nature, down deep heís as insecure as many of us are, and he thinks deeply about things (that is juvenile antics years ago probably persuaded people he wasnít capable of. Thereís still a little boy inside the man who, while maybe he ever expressed it, was worried that his older brother would get all the attention and love while he was relatively ignored. Iím sure I read a Diana quote from long ago where she stated that she needed to make sure that Harry never felt that way...and Iím sure Charles felt that way also. Nonetheless, the boys are much older now and William is that much closer to being king. Itís understandable if Harryís fears are emerging again even if he truly doesnít need to worry. I think Meghan might be playing up those fears.
  #1374  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:17 PM
duchessrachel's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
I don't think the way they have chosen to do this will endear them to the British public--even if Charles needs Harry, I don't think they will be welcomed back. I think they are burning bridges more than they realize.
When all of this blows up in Harry's face one day, I believe the royal family would take him back, but only when he realizes what is really happening.
  #1375  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:18 PM
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Sadly I think that this is the case.

Our government currently is dealing with the loss of Canadians when the Iranians shot down a jet with our citizens aboard. (Iran finally admitted it was not a crash and mistaken identity).

They don't need the distraction of Harry and Meghan. The British goverment is continuing to deal with Brexit.

To be fair, many people don't seem to understand the immigration is more complex than picking a country and moving to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
No.

It hasn't occurred to them at all.

I don't believe the thought that they might not be that welcome as permanent residents in another country has crossed their minds.
Nor have they considered that a wish to move and settle in another country (because that's de facto what they are doing) may cause embarrassment for the government in that country - seemingly Canada.

Nor have they contemplated that the government of Britain - and again, seemingly Canada as well - may have other things on their minds than solving their self-imposed problems.

We can debate endlessly why, but right now H&M are living in a reality of their own.
  #1376  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:22 PM
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150 engagements a year=hard work??? No, not at all!

In regards to the "more involvement", whilst I can't imagine that any royal is able to name all their patronages and the people who are linked to them. I can certainly imagine that Anne is heavily involved in public and behind the scenes. Case in point is her involvement in the Scottish Rugby Union, she attends every six nations match of there's when another engagement is not booked in advance, she shows commitment to former and previous players her message and presenting on an award to Doddie Weir last year is also proof of this. She doesn't just cut ribbons and walks away, which is my interpretation of what you're saying.

Thank you for this opinion. I am surprised every year when reading the published ranking and numbers of engagements among the roayals, with some doing only 150 a year or something. that means with two engagements a day they spend two thirds of the year doing what? compared to any commonor having maybe two jobs to keep the family going, alongside NO servants, nannies , free housing etc...
Surely it is nice for Kate& William to be able to spend time with their children but again compared to any civilist they do not work hard and when H&M released the info about their 6 weeks break I asked myself again, what do they need to recover from?
So it is really time to get them work harder!
H&M show no empathy but a lot of hypocrisy, especially their plan to balance between the two continents but talking about saving nature.... with more flights in the future..... No, let them step back, but without anything, I wish ghem all the best. But accepting any of their suggestions will lead into a lifelong threat, rivalry, shadowexistance and more problems we can not even imagine because H&M are not reliable and do not respect rules....
We will see what will happen, one can only hope Charles takes over as HM has not been able to avoid such situations in her reign, she surely has other qualities of course! A sharp break now, if necessary, is better than a lasting problem for the future especially regarding W&K.
And it is not any dislike of Meghan but my personal and professional experience that tells me that this Sussex marriage is not to last long, with these two characters. One can only hope that H' mental problems will not lead him into catastrophy. M is going to survive all that, I do not fear anything for her really.

I, personally, and I believe others as well do not see William, Catherine, Henry nor Meghan as full time working royals. They are senior royals, but they simply do not do enough engagements to represent the crown. Whilst I imagine it will increase year on year, it should have increased faster than it has. The reason being is unknown, it's be thrown around that is because The Queen wanted her grandchildren to have time to be just that before stepping into royal life. They're all approaching 40 now, they've had time IMO.

Henry clearly didn't see this future for himself, however I disagree that this wasn't what the RF nor his father planned for him.[/QUOTE]
  #1377  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:22 PM
Commoner
 
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At the risk of sounding dumb since I and everyone else is basing our opinion on things, we have little to no knowledge of what is going on I will try to stick to facts and not let my emotions get the best of me. I've never read so much about something that was not a homework/work assignment that also has nothing to do with me. From everything I've read so far, the Sussexes are trying to work out something not only for themselves but a template the firm can use for all future royal second-born. It was inevitable at some point a second-born was going to challenge the status quo.

The way things currently stand is great for the first in line, but terrible for the second-born later in their lives. Look back at the history of second-born and tell me which one has flourished past their 40/50 years of life. Its almost as if the firm uses them to enhance the Monarchy standing then toss them to the side once the heir kids are old enough to attract tons of interest in the papers, at which point the firm says, "thank you for your service" now get the hell out. I know I would be pissed if I work for a company for 20-30years and they treated that way.

Contrary to what was first reported, the firm knew about the Sussexes situation, they did not know all the details, but they knew. So the reports about the palace not knowing that was first reported are wrong. Someone in the palace leak the story to the sun, as usual, to try to make the Sussexes look bad and also trying to control the narrative at which point the Sussexes gave them the finger and went nuclear. I would have done the same in their shoe. That's one of the problem with the firm, someone in their camp is always trying to control the narrative against the Sussexes and this time they were ready for it.
  #1378  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purrs View Post
To be fair, many people don't seem to understand the immigration is more complex than picking a country and moving to it.

Well- as an American, itís pretty well understood. Immigration is a pretty sensitive topic these days. Most people here anyway are crystal clear itís not that simple.

I guess it also depends on how exactly they plan to divide their time between countries. Theyíre supposedly not planning to be in Canada all the time.

That said- how is this supposed to work with Archie and school in a few years? Splitting time like this.
  #1379  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
This statement of "collaborate with the Queen" reeks to me of arrogance. Members of the Royal Family do not "collaborate" with the Queen. She is the boss and they do what she tells them.
This is Meghanís understanding of the BRF. Celebrities ďcollaborateĒ with brands and she thinks the Queen and the BRF are a brand. IMO, she never has or never wanted to, understand what being Royal really means

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
Well- as an American, itís pretty well understood. Immigration is a pretty sensitive topic these days. Most people here anyway are crystal clear itís not that simple.

I guess it also depends on how exactly they plan to divide their time between countries. Theyíre supposedly not planning to be in Canada all the time.

That said- how is this supposed to work with Archie and school in a few years? Splitting time like this.
I donít think they thought this out to that extent.
  #1380  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
This statement of "collaborate with the Queen" reeks to me of arrogance. Members of the Royal Family do not "collaborate" with the Queen. She is the boss and they do what she tells them.
I understand your opinion, but honestly too many of the royals have done whatever he of she wanted during the last decades. HM was not able to control hr family , many probelms have risen from that.
Saying HM is the boss is the theory.
One can only hope that Charles takes over and is more lucky dealing within the family/firm.
Andrew is now haooy at home as all attention is now drawn on the asussexes, the inly winner of the new problem. But the problem with Andrew is another proof for HM unability to be "the boss".
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