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  #1241  
Old 01-11-2020, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purrs View Post
That is only possible exception I can see. However, I honestly don't think Harry is particularly qualified as a diplomat (although that's for the British government to decide). I assumed Meghan was in the UK on a spousal/fiancee sponsorship program since she was engaged and then soon married to Harry. I'd be surprised if they issued her diplomatic passport when she could be sponsored sinc she was marrying a British citizen.
Well diplomats are usually very restricted in what they say publically since they represent the government so....our couple seems to actually be not really wanting that situation for themselves

They are not a duty first/personal comfort second kind of couple---and really don't have to be if they work out an arrangement with BP. When they pulled out a big ole cartoon-sized shotgun and aimed it at their feet earlier this week they made working out that arrangement very problematic.

God bless HM, PC and PW as they try to straighten out this mess.
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  #1242  
Old 01-11-2020, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
Immigration is a very sensitive political topic everywhere at the moment. I can't believe that Trudeau will risk a row by making such a high profile exception to the rules.


We've been told that Meghan isn't even being fast-tracked for British citizenship, although she is entitled to live here as the spouse of a British citizen.


Has this just not occurred to Harry and Meghan?! Surely they cannot be that thoughtless?
No.

It hasn't occurred to them at all.

I don't believe the thought that they might not be that welcome as permanent residents in another country has crossed their minds.
Nor have they considered that a wish to move and settle in another country (because that's de facto what they are doing) may cause embarrassment for the government in that country - seemingly Canada.

Nor have they contemplated that the government of Britain - and again, seemingly Canada as well - may have other things on their minds than solving their self-imposed problems.

We can debate endlessly why, but right now H&M are living in a reality of their own.
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  #1243  
Old 01-11-2020, 06:27 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Can I ask why this was even a legitimate question to ask in a poll? Harry and Meghan do *not* receive an income from the Duchy of Cornwall. Harry's father does and its his own personal income that he pays taxes on. Charles *chooses* to fund the Duchess of Cornwall, the Sussexes and the Cambridges from his income.

Shouldn't the question be "Should Charles continue to fund his son and his wife from his own personal income?"



The question of the duchies is tricky and I am sure there are more knowledgeable experts here who can comment in greater depth.



The way I see it though is that, yes, it is a source of private income for the PoW and his family even if the duchy itself has some characteristics that resemble a public trust. However, it is not a private income for Charles Philip Arthur George Mountbatten-Windsor as a private citizen, but for the Prince in his public role as heir to the throne. The moment William becomes the heir, the income goes to him showing that it is tied to the office or the title of Duke of Cornwall, right ?


Could Charles support his family with that income ? Absolutely, but I suppose most Britons understand that his family being supported implies some kind of underlying contract where they are supposed to give something back in terms of full-time service to the nation, the Queen and the heir. Harry and Meghan said they want to be part-timers and live a significant part of the year in Canada , which is a foreign country (the Commonwealth is no longer the cohesive imperial unity that it once was in the early 20th century). I don't blame the 60 % who said 'No' in that poll for saying that.
  #1244  
Old 01-11-2020, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyGlendower View Post
Well diplomats are usually very restricted in what they say publically since they represent the government so....our couple seems to actually be not really wanting that situation for themselves

They are not a duty first/personal comfort second kind of couple---and really don't have to be if they work out an arrangement with BP. When they pulled out a big ole cartoon-sized shotgun and aimed it at their feet earlier this week they made working out that arrangement very problematic.

God bless HM, PC and PW as they try to straighten out this mess.
William and the Middletons have not come under much scrutiny. Harry is jettisoning his birthright and role while his brother is embracing it. [...] The brothers seemed close so is it the old story of being driven apart once married - and the fragmenting results?
  #1245  
Old 01-11-2020, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
No.

It hasn't occurred to them at all.

I don't believe the thought that they might not be that welcome as permanent residents in another country has crossed their minds.
Nor have they considered that a wish to move and settle in another country (because that's de facto what they are doing) may cause embarrassment for the government in that country - seemingly Canada.

Nor have they contemplated that the government of Britain - and again, seemingly Canada as well - may have other things on their minds than solving their self-imposed problems.

We can debate endlessly why, but right now H&M are living in a reality of their own.
As far as I can tell immigration is not even on the table. This is what you want not what they want. The fact that they want to split their time between the UK and North America doesn't mean they will immigrate. Why is this even a discussion?

Quote:
We now plan to balance our time between the United Kingdom and North America, continuing to honour our duty to The Queen, the Commonwealth, and our patronages.
  #1246  
Old 01-11-2020, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Can I ask why this was even a legitimate question to ask in a poll?
Because [regardless of the facts, you describe] the Public sees that Prince Charles' income IS 'Duchy money', so [albeit indirectly] this couple are funded by that estate.

I really posted this as an indication of the markededly reduced Public appetite for maintaining this couple in the 'style to which they've become accustomed', regardless of the minutiaie of the source of the money.
  #1247  
Old 01-11-2020, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
The question of the duchies is tricky and I am sure there are more knowledgeable experts here who can comment in greater depth.



The way I see it though is that, yes, it is a source of private income for the PoW and his family even if the duchy itself has some characteristics that resemble a public trust. However, it is not a private income for Charles Philip Arthur George Mountbatten-Windsor as a private citizen, but for the Prince of Wales in his public role as heir to the throne. Could he support his family with that income ? Absolutely, but I suppose most Britons understand that his family being supported implies some kind of underlying contract with the nation where they are supposed to give something back in terms of full-time service to the nation, the Queen and the heir. Harry an Meghan said they want to be part-timers and live a significant part of the year in Canada , which is a foreign country (the Commonwealth is no longer the cohesive imperial unity that it once was in the early 20th century). I don't blame the 60 % who said 'No' in that poll for saying that.
Actually, its the private income for the Duke of Cornwall. When Charles becomes King, William as the eldest son and heir apparent will inherit the Duchy of Cornwall and the private income that it provides and he'll do with it as Charles did. Support his wife and children and their eventual spouses.

Mind you, the income provided changes each year depending on the *surplus* or the profits that the Duchy of Cornwall earns. It is its own entity in and of itself and actually owns Highgrove. Its my understanding that Charles' private income works in much the same way as the Sovereign Grant does from the Crown Estates. Its the *profits* earned by the Crown Estates, the Duchy of Cornwall and the Duchy of Lancaster (the Queen's private income aka the Privy Purse) that determines the amount of "income" received. All of the above entities are subject to the Treasury of the UK. Charles and the Queen *voluntarily* pay taxes on income that is not used for official purposes. The Queen investing in the colonization of Mars would be "personal" and taxable. The Queen donating from the Privy Purse to the Royal Collection Trust anonymously would be "official".

There's no riders attached to working for the "Firm" or representing the Crown and country but the difference in the itemizing for tax purposes would perhaps remove Harry and Meghan's funding from being "official business" to "personal expenditures" just as funding the Duchess of Cornwall's wardrobe for her public appearances would be "official" and buying her a sweet new pearl choker for an anniversary would be listed as a "personal expenditure" and we know Charles isn't stingy when it comes to stuff like that.

There's a lot of misconception around the incomes and the expenditures of the BRF that abound and I probably even got a whole lot of things mixed up but one thing I do know is that Harry and Meghan do *not* receive funding from the Duchy of Cornwall itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Because [regardless of the facts, you describe] the Public sees that Prince Charles' income IS 'Duchy money', so [albeit indirectly] this couple are funded by that estate.

I really posted this as an indication of the markededly reduced Public appetite for maintaining this couple in the 'style to which they've become accustomed', regardless of the minutiaie of the source of the money.
Good point and I see your reasoning. Public opinion *does* matter in the long run.
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  #1248  
Old 01-11-2020, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
Harry is the son and Meghan is the daughterin-law of the future king. A couple who has visited foreign countries as representatives of said kingdom. Of course they qualify as diplomats.
Being the son of a Royal does not qualify you as a diplomat. Diplomats are trained civil servants.
  #1249  
Old 01-11-2020, 06:56 AM
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Being realistic of course Charles will pay them some money from the Duchy as that is his private income. Although it is his private income it is in some ways more public than a private salary for say, the Prime Minister so I can see why the public are having an opinion on it.

What Charles does next will depend on what route the Sussex's take.

If they go down the route of "financial independence" then Charles should cut their income form his down to a smaller (yet still 6 figure) personal allowance. The millions they get know is taking into account the fact they undertake duties for the Crown.

If they opt to stay more inside the royal fold without financial independence the funding from Charles can keep going as before but with, I would expect, reduced expenditure as I would say Harry and Meghan can afford to fund their Canadian adventures themselves from their private funds and Charles can continue to fund the UK side. Thus Charles' expenditure would be cut down as Charles would only be funding their time in the UK.

Who knows, I guess it depends what the Sussex's really want from this.
  #1250  
Old 01-11-2020, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Being realistic of course Charles will pay them some money from the Duchy as that is his private income. Although it is his private income it is in some ways more public than a private salary for say, the Prime Minister so I can see why the public are having an opinion on it.

What Charles does next will depend on what route the Sussex's take.

If they go down the route of "financial independence" then Charles should cut their income form his down to a smaller (yet still 6 figure) personal allowance. The millions they get know is taking into account the fact they undertake duties for the Crown.

If they opt to stay more inside the royal fold without financial independence the funding from Charles can keep going as before but with, I would expect, reduced expenditure as I would say Harry and Meghan can afford to fund their Canadian adventures themselves from their private funds and Charles can continue to fund the UK side. Thus Charles' expenditure would be cut down as Charles would only be funding their time in the UK.

Who knows, I guess it depends what the Sussex's really want from this.
It is Charles' private income but yes, there are restrictions on it.. And he has paid a high figure out to H and Meg on the assumption that they are working for the Crown. If they are not going to do that properly and if they want "to make tehir own money" then C's money IMO should go elsewhere. He has other relatives who have done a lifetimes service ot the Crown and who will need some financial support in their old age. He has charities he supports. if Meg and Harry want to make their own money why do they expect Charles to help theM?
  #1251  
Old 01-11-2020, 07:06 AM
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SLV SLV is offline
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Question, can H&M use the Canadian Police as protection, with them being payed by the BRF? As opposed to using the British PO's.
  #1252  
Old 01-11-2020, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Actually, its the private income for the Duke of Cornwall. When Charles becomes King, William as the eldest son and heir apparent will inherit the Duchy of Cornwall and the private income that it provides and he'll do with it as Charles did. Support his wife and children and their eventual spouses.

Mind you, the income provided changes each year depending on the *surplus* or the profits that the Duchy of Cornwall earns. It is its own entity in and of itself and actually owns Highgrove. Its my understanding that Charles' private income works in much the same way as the Sovereign Grant does from the Crown Estates. Its the *profits* earned by the Crown Estates, the Duchy of Cornwall and the Duchy of Lancaster (the Queen's private income aka the Privy Purse) that determines the amount of "income" received. All of the above entities are subject to the Treasury of the UK. Charles and the Queen *voluntarily* pay taxes on income that is not used for official purposes. The Queen investing in the colonization of Mars would be "personal" and taxable. The Queen donating from the Privy Purse to the Royal Collection Trust anonymously would be "official".

There's no riders attached to working for the "Firm" or representing the Crown and country but the difference in the itemizing for tax purposes would perhaps remove Harry and Meghan's funding from being "official business" to "personal expenditures" just as funding the Duchess of Cornwall's wardrobe for her public appearances would be "official" and buying her a sweet new pearl choker for an anniversary would be listed as a "personal expenditure" and we know Charles isn't stingy when it comes to stuff like that.

There's a lot of misconception around the incomes and the expenditures of the BRF that abound and I probably even got a whole lot of things mixed up but one thing I do know is that Harry and Meghan do *not* receive funding from the Duchy of Cornwall itself.



The fact that the income (or the surplus income if you will) goes to William when he becomes heir underlines that it is not personal income , but rather income tied to an office or title (Duke of Cornwall). It is not Charles' income then, but the Duke's and the title is tied to being the eldest son of the monarch and the heir apparent. My point was not that there are legal constraints on how Charles can spend the money, but there are , as I made clear in my post, genuine expectations on the part of the public that those who are supported by those funds do public work. And, if it works as the Sovereign Grant as you claim ( I am not sure about that), even more so. Certainly, no one would expect the Sovereign Grant to be used to mantain H&M in Canada and they are rightly giving it up voluntarily (the Sovereign Grant is supposed to support official business of the Crown, mantain the occupied Royal Palaces, etc.)



Also, your proposed poll question would be , in this case, completely misleading. If you asked me if Charles should fund H&M from his private income , I would assume you are referring to private money he inherited (by will or trust funds ) from his parents, grandparents, etc. , not money he derives from the Duchy of Cornwall. Forbes Magazine does not count the Duchy of Lancaster or the Duchy of Cornwall when assessing the Queen's or the PoW's net worth because those are not assets that are personal property. Again they are tied to an office and not owned by the Queen or Charles.
  #1253  
Old 01-11-2020, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
The question of the duchies is tricky and I am sure there are more knowledgeable experts here who can comment in greater depth.



The way I see it though is that, yes, it is a source of private income for the PoW and his family even if the duchy itself has some characteristics that resemble a public trust. However, it is not a private income for Charles Philip Arthur George Mountbatten-Windsor as a private citizen, but for the Prince in his public role as heir to the throne. The moment William becomes the heir, the income goes to him showing that it is tied to the office or the title of Duke of Cornwall, right ?


Could Charles support his family with that income ? Absolutely, but I suppose most Britons understand that his family being supported implies some kind of underlying contract where they are supposed to give something back in terms of full-time service to the nation, the Queen and the heir. Harry and Meghan said they want to be part-timers and live a significant part of the year in Canada , which is a foreign country (the Commonwealth is no longer the cohesive imperial unity that it once was in the early 20th century). I don't blame the 60 % who said 'No' in that poll for saying that.

Charles uses this money to pay the guy who put toothpaste on his toothbrush every night. That is okay but funding his son is not? Maybe his Royal Highness the Prince of Wales even understands that a second son wants to flee the British media attention and live in the quiet for half a year with his wife and son and want to support it from the immense riches he personally possesses or is going to possess. Just like Queen Beatrix supported her son Friso and her daughter-in-law Mabel In London, king Harald his daughter Märtha in the US, king Carl Gustav his daughter Madeleine in whereever she now lives and queen Margarethe (and the Danish state!) prince Joachim and princess Marie in Paris.
  #1254  
Old 01-11-2020, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Being the son of a Royal does not qualify you as a diplomat. Diplomats are trained civil servants.
Perhaps that is why the British royal family are *hosts* to the Diplomatic Corps for a white tie sit down dinner each year as a way of recognizing them for their service to Crown and Country. Makes sense to me.
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  #1255  
Old 01-11-2020, 07:11 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV View Post
Question, can H&M use the Canadian Police as protection, with them being payed by the BRF? As opposed to using the British PO's.
I would imagine it would be up to the Canadian Govt and Police forces.. if they wished to go this route... if the BRF are prepared ot pay for this, why not just use private security...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
Charles uses this money to pay the guy who put toothpaste on his toothbrush every night. That is okay but funding his son is not? Maybe his Royal Highness the Prince of Wales even understands that a second son wants to flee the British media attention and live in the quiet for half a year with his wife and son and want to support it from the immense riches he personally possesses or is going to possess. Just like Queen Beatrix supported her son Friso and her daughter-in-law Mabel In London, king Harald his daughter Märtha in the US, king Carl Gustav his daughter Madeleine in whereever she now lives and queen Margarethe (and the Danish state!) prince Joachim and princess Marie in Paris.
Why should Chales fund Harry, if Harry "wants to live in the quiet" AND make his own money? If he wants a quiet life, he and Meghan have an adequate fortune to do that. If they want to make their own money, then they should not need funding from H's father.
  #1256  
Old 01-11-2020, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
So the newest story is that Meghan signed and followed through on a voiceover deal with Disney. The work was performed before they left for Canada in November and was in exchange for a donation to Elephants Without Borders. However, the fact that nothing was said about it, even though it was done for a donation to a very worthwhile organization, speaks volumes. It also lends credence to the snippets coming out over the last couple of days about suspicions that they’re already making commercial deals. Now, it is the DM so who really knows but this does seem very much like a real possibility...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-charity.html
Where there’s smoke, there’s fire.. see below from Vanity Fair. This is so disturbing to me..build their brands? Become like the Beckhams? This is so tawdry, so cheap. Trademarking “Sussex Royal” ? I’m sorry, it’s ugly and gross...and that’s before getting into how Harry has deeply hurt his grandmother)


Quote:
There is genuine concern at the palace that if the couple seek to embark on commercial ventures which seems likely given they have registered Sussex Royal as a trademark, their work could conflict with their royal role.

Last night a source close to Prince Harry said that a major reason for the couple standing down from the Royal Family is so that they can build their own Sussex brand. The couple will launch their own charitable foundation later this year and “Sussex Royal” could potentially earn them millions.

“Building their brand is the most important thing to them right now,” a source told Vanity Fair. “I think it might be more important than their royal titles because they are already so huge, so successful and so popular particularly in the US which is where they see their brand really taking off. Meghan is seriously bright and business savvy and together they have come up with a plan to become the royal version of the Beckhams.”
https://www.vanityfair.com/style/202...-queen-fallout
  #1257  
Old 01-11-2020, 07:15 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Perhaps that is why the British royal family are *hosts* to the Diplomatic Corps for a white tie sit down dinner each year as a way of recognizing them for their service to Crown and Country. Makes sense to me.
The Diplomatic service is part of the Civil service. There are exams and qualifications to get in. They work on behalf of the Queen but they are professional diplomats...
  #1258  
Old 01-11-2020, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Perhaps that is why the British royal family are *hosts* to the Diplomatic Corps for a white tie sit down dinner each year as a way of recognizing them for their service to Crown and Country. Makes sense to me.
Except that the Diplomatic Corps isn't the British diplomats but foreign diplomats posted to London - Ambassadors and High Commissioners from outside the UK. That means the people who attend the Diplomatic Reception aren't British but foreigners who are in Britain to serve their own countries and not the British Crown.

The British Ambassador to the US doesn't attend but the US Ambassador to the UK does.
  #1259  
Old 01-11-2020, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elenath View Post
As far as I can tell immigration is not even on the table. This is what you want not what they want. The fact that they want to split their time between the UK and North America doesn't mean they will immigrate. Why is this even a discussion?
I'm not talking about immigration. I'm talking about H&M setting up their day-to-day home in North America and gradually end up spending most of their time there - more than the five months Purrs explained us about.

As it is now, we have to consider that:
A) H&M are opting all out of the BRF and taking up main residence in North America.
B) That the whole thing ends in a deadlock and H&M are basically exiled to North America.
C) That the idea of splitting their time between North America and Britain - for various reasons - won't work. And H&M choose North America.
D) Both H&M feel very much at home in North America and as such spend more and more time there - not least when Archie reach school age.
E) (Fill in with whatever you can come up with.)
  #1260  
Old 01-11-2020, 07:22 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Except that the Diplomatic Corps isn't the British diplomats but foreign diplomats posted to London - Ambassadors and High Commissioners from outside the UK.

The British Ambassador to the US doesn't attend but the US Ambassador to the UK does.
So it is not for the British diplomatis at all?
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