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  #1101  
Old 01-10-2020, 04:13 PM
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Neither William nor Edward made a flouncy, attention-seeking announcement without even discussing it with the Queen. Also, they weren't full time working royals at the time - they didn't actually back out of a position that they were already in, so it was a completely different scenario.


The opinion polls show that over 40% of people are OK with Harry and Meghan taking a step back, but no-one is very impressed with the way they've handled it. It's also very confusing at the moment, because no-one seems to be clear on what they're planning to do. Prince William took a job as an air ambulance pilot. Harry and Meghan have just made cryptic remarks about "financial independence".


I'm surprised that Harry and Meghan have handled it in this way. They've acted like two stroppy teenagers stomping off in a huff. Why couldn't they have discussed it properly, like the Queen asked them to? I'm sure something could have been worked out.
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  #1102  
Old 01-10-2020, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
I think this is a very good point and really calls into question both their future plans and their motivations. So many people would like to spin this into a narrative about them protecting their own mental health, etc. and while that would be more than understandable and even admirable if it were true, their stated intentions and actions seem to suggest otherwise. Harry himself talked about how traumatized he was and is and even suggested that being in the spotlight and hearing cameras clicking are triggers for him. That would suggest that in order to protect his mental health they might slip away quietly to the mountains of Canada or the plains of Africa where those camera clicks would be few and far between. But, their own website seems to imply that they'll instead be using their status and profiles to become celebrities and in that case those camera clicks and spotlights will be constant. The statements and intentions simply don't mesh well together and it really needs to be made clear whether their intention is to quietly fade into a sort of anonymity (as best they can, anyway) and live a quiet life that puts his/their mental health first and allows them breathing room or if, instead, they intend to step squarely into the red carpet, glossy magazine, constantly hounded at restaurants and public places kind of life that Harry himself explicitly said multiple times that he didn't want and was traumatic for him.

I couldn't agree more and you were far nicer than I would have been - they're hypocrites. I have no doubt that Harry has suffered, absolutely, but for someone who claims to hate the media he sure does seek it out. This is one reason I think Meghan has been a strong influence on him, because his behavior smacks of "saying one thing, doing another". Of course I'm not absolving him, just making a point.
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  #1103  
Old 01-10-2020, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
And, of course, if Harry didn't have a clear idea of his place within the structure of the monarchy, you could hardly expect Meghan to develop a realistic view of how things were going to work.
I cannot imagine Harry not understanding his position. I think he knew very well what his position was. He was happy not to be destined to become king as that would mean that he was able to use his position to do good while being allowed a much greater freedom than if he had been in the direct line. However, that also comes with not being the one who finally decides; and more recently that seems to have created tensions.

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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
The more I think about it, my conclusion is that Meghan’s desire to live in North America could have been accommodated if the couple had approached Prince Charles (the designated future head of the Commonwealth) to discuss with the relevant parties (the UK Foreign Office, the Canadian government, etc.) the possibility of setting up a new Commonwealth agency in Canada covering the entire Western Hemisphere including the Caribbean. Harry could have been appointed to that agency then in an official capacity as a British representative with costs paid under the FCO budget.

The problem seems to be that the couple was not satisfied simply with living overseas. They wanted “ financial independence” ( in terms) , which means actually the possibility to pursue their. “ progressive” agenda independently and monetize the Sussex brand. And they wanted to be outside the chain of command and not under Prince Charies or the Cambridges. That is where things get tricky and, perhaps, unworkable.
Not completely sure about the feasibility of your idea; but something could surely have been worked out. However, all of that would require them to indeed remain in the chain of command. Not going solo as you pointed out so adequately in your other post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
The counter-argument that should be made is that this not about two people trying to gain their freedom from an oppressive patriarchal ( or, in this case, matriarchal ) structure, but rather two employees going rogue and refusing to follow the chain of command of the corporation they work for.

Americans are free to choose who they work for , but, when they are unhappy with their job, they quit and move on to do something else. Dictating terms and imposing on the organization that employs them for their own personal gain is not acceptable behavior in American culture or, at least, I don’t think it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
If there was ever any thought that Harry (and Meghan) would not be fulltime working royals—the Queen would not have given them the Commonwealth roles she did. Nor would some of the patronages been passed to them.
This!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sophie25 View Post
I agree, there's a slimmed down Monarchy and then there's an absolutely skeletal one! It was my understanding that when Charles took the throne the BRF would consist of himself, Camilla, his sons and their wives and his grandchildren. This was represented at the Diamond Jubilee where BOTH of his sons appeared on the balcony as part of what many interpreted as the future slimmed down royal family. William's children are decades away from royal duties so of course Harry was going to be needed to support his father alongside William. Bradby is talking nonsense IMO.
I like the comparison between 'slimmed down' and 'skeletal'. All indications on the side of the BRF were that Harry and Meghan were part of the 'slimmed down' version; otherwise they would not have been assigned their Commonwealth roles and Meghan would not been handed down patronages from the queen. That's very different from Beatrice and Eugenie taking up patronages of their own.

I also think that Anne, Edward and Sophie are still part of the 'slimmed down' monarchy. They will become less prominent with time and most likely out phased by the time William becomes king; but there is little reason to throw them out. (Of course, now there is even less reason to do so). So, probably by the time that George becomes king Harry and Meghan's roles might significantly diminish (media attention will diminish earlier: when George and his siblings become the center of attention).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ista View Post
I agree that this is an interesting article, and, assuming it is mostly accurate, makes me feel a lot of sympathy for Sarah Latham and co. The previously published comments about the Sussexes operating in a silo and listening to no one certainly seem to have some merit.
What's the gist of it? Unfortunately, it is not freely available.
  #1104  
Old 01-10-2020, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I don’t know about Canada , but , in the US, if you are an employee of a foreign government on a tour of duty , you qualify for an A-1 (?) visa, which allows you to stay in the country for an undetermined period of time marked as “ duration of status”. Canada may have a similar type of visa that Harry could use if he was in the country in some official business on behalf of the UK government, but, as in the US, he would not be able to work outside the specific domain of his tour of duty, much less run any commercial business that would guarantee him “ financial independence ‘. That is not a path either to permanent residence.

I suppose the Canadian government is reportedly participating in the meetings convened on instructions by the Queen precisely to figure out how to solve these problems.
True. That's covered here: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...ial-visas.html

There are similar restrictions on permitted activities.
  #1105  
Old 01-10-2020, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
If Charles wants to give them money from his personal fortune, fine-as a father he can do that.
His personal income is exactly what Charles' income from the Duchy of Cornwall is and he pays income tax on it. He can do whatever he wishes with his personal money. That is the bottom line here. Its the same thing with the Queen and her personal income from the Duchy of Lancaster. She could buy shares in racing endeavors, build her own portfolio in shares in a company that is planning on colonizing Mars or buy the world a Coke if she so wanted to.
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  #1106  
Old 01-10-2020, 04:25 PM
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If Harry and Meghan do decide to reside in Canada on a more permanent basis the only way Harry could stay legally would be if he got some kind of diplomatic status from the British embassy because he would never qualify to immigrate here.
  #1107  
Old 01-10-2020, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I don’t know about Canada , but , in the US, if you are an employee of a foreign government on a tour of duty , you qualify for an A-1 (?) visa, which allows you to stay in the country for an undetermined period of time marked as “ duration of status”. Canada may have a similar type of visa that Harry could use if he was in the country in some official business on behalf of the UK government, but, as in the US, he would not be able to work outside the specific domain of his tour of duty, much less run any commercial business that would guarantee him “ financial independence ‘. That is not a path either to permanent residence.

I suppose the Canadian government is reportedly participating in the meetings convened on instructions by the Queen precisely to figure out how to solve these problems.
A US A-1 kind of visa is limited to State Department-accredited diplomats or diplomats traveling to the US for work, as well as Ministers.. if Canada has something like this, Harry would not qualify unless he is accredited and you’d be right, diplomatic status would be yet another restriction on their aim to do their own thing. On the other hand because of his passport, he can easily enter and stay in Canada for 180 days under ETA vs 90 days in the US (anyone feel free to correct me). As most expats know, in these situations one just needs to get out of the country once in a while. Harry can surely manage getting out of Canada at least once every 5 months. The only issue is, he shouldn’t be working with a temporary visa, so I wonder how that’ll work out.
  #1108  
Old 01-10-2020, 04:33 PM
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This is the heart of the matter, I believe. In rejecting Harry's family, I suspect that he will, at some point, feel the emptiness in his life. Sure he'll pop up at events - even if just private - but it won't be the same.

Quote:
Podcast Pod Save the Queen is hosted by Ann Gripper and features Daily Mirror royal editor Russell Myers.

In this week’s latest episode, Mr Myers discussed the fall-out from the Sussexes shock announcement.

Mr Myers said: “It’s not only caused deep concern, but absolute sadness, I think, from the senior members of the Royal Family.

“This has come at a time when they thought that they had really tried to help Harry and Meghan, bring them back into the fold.

“There was concern about how they did they ITV documentary, how they looked very fragile.

“And it seems as though they’ve gone away and they have decided against coming into the fold, and are going it alone.

“Mr Myers also pointed out how at the heart of the institutional crisis was a deep family wound.

He said: “There is a breakdown of a family relationship here.

“This, for me, is a really sad state of affairs and I do worry about who they are taking advice from.

“I do think it could work, as a progressive role – certainly Charles and William have discussed having a slimmed-down monarchy.

“Harry’s no fool, he knew that this would happen.

“But, what’s the rush? Even if they thought that they wanted to get ahead of the curve, they didn’t need to do it in this way.

“It shows you, at the core, the huge breakdown of relationships here, which is very, very sad.

“What this boils down to, is a breakdown of a family relationship
.”
https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal...rkle-royal-spt
  #1109  
Old 01-10-2020, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
Everyone is different - I think that 19 months is a long time to spend your time doing something you hate.
The couple expressed great eagerness to take on the role. I don't think they are doing what they hate. What they propose going forward is very much what they have been doing all along. However, the main difference being: they don't want to report to the Queen/Prince of Wales; they want to fully control the media; and they want to profit from it. Other than that, it's not that different from what they have been doing so far. So, if they hate what they are doing, they should have proposed something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by helenbeee View Post
But its understandable look at Prince Andrew and Edward it is no fun being a spare. He doesnt want it and I dont think using other peoples sacrifice and suffering as a reason that he should endure the same is rational. It doesnt make it sense why does he have to suffer like the rest of the BRF who gave sacrificed did?
I don't get the impression that the queen's younger children are suffering at all. They have (or had) fulfilling lives; are able to provide their children with a (relatively) stable home; are able to meet interesting people and pursue lots of their own interest and in doing so creating opportunities for others and supporting their mother who is a great example of duty and dedication to her country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
Yes, it makes perfect sense and is the right plan of action. All the current events affecting the BRF directly affects his not so far off reign. Not to mention that this is his son. William’s future role will also be affected, so he should be involved as well.
Everything point in that direction. Reporters all report that it's the households of the queen, the prince of Wales AND the duke of Cambridge trying to work out a solution with the Sussexes. It is in everyone's interest to find some kind of middle ground. Charles and William's focus will most likely on building in some safeguards that will protect the monarchy; and Harry will be focused on getting as much freedom as he can and hopefully some continued financial support and royal privileges.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
What they can’t do is expect either the taxpayer or Prince Charles to fund their lifestyle and security if they’re giving nothing back, or to cash in on the royal name. And I’m getting sick of hearing “Sussex Royal” – it sounds like a cross between a racehorse and a golf hotel!

Having said which, I can't see how there can be any way to stop them, legally, if they wanted to do a book deal, or accept money to go on talk shows, or give after dinner speeches. It would be very embarrassing for the Royal Family, and I would sincerely hope that Harry would have enough respect for the Queen not to do that, but I don't think there'd be any way of stopping them.
I think the BRF has asked their lawyers to come up with an agreement that will cover some of those aspects. It's clear that Harry & Meghan want out but as long as both parties have some interest in 'getting' (or avoiding) something from the other, there is room for negotiation.
  #1110  
Old 01-10-2020, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
His personal income is exactly what Charles' income from the Duchy of Cornwall is and he pays income tax on it. He can do whatever he wishes with his personal money. That is the bottom line here. Its the same thing with the Queen and her personal income from the Duchy of Lancaster. She could buy shares in racing endeavors, build her own portfolio in shares in a company that is planning on colonizing Mars or buy the world a Coke if she so wanted to.
I'm not sure that is totally true--

"The administration of the duchy is regulated by the Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall (Accounts) Act 1838, which requires Treasury's supervision and for the accounts to be presented to both Houses of Parliament."

This seems to imply some government oversight.
  #1111  
Old 01-10-2020, 04:52 PM
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I think Mr Trudeau would be delighted to welcome a 'like minded' couple into Canada, and may 'move heaven and Earth to do so..
  #1112  
Old 01-10-2020, 04:54 PM
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Betsypaige, that is sad, yes.

I think that for Meghan a breakdown of family relationships could feel more like what she's used to. Meghan has perhaps developed a fierce independence. She knows she will survive and thrive even without family.

I have high hopes that the strength of the Queen's communication teams will work out a viable solution. However, how to change the mindset of not missing or needing close family can't be decided in meetings around the table. If Meghan and Harry wish more independence then they will have it. Archie will have it too and he could be destined to feel an outsider in his own family through no fault of his own.
  #1113  
Old 01-10-2020, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by marlene View Post
If Harry and Meghan do decide to reside in Canada on a more permanent basis the only way Harry could stay legally would be if he got some kind of diplomatic status from the British embassy because he would never qualify to immigrate here.

What? Harry is a trained soldier and helicopter pilot! He is the guarantee that little Canada, where polar fox and polar hare wish each other a good night, would stay in the limelights. He is a multi-millionaire, who can take care of himself.

So, c'mon!
  #1114  
Old 01-10-2020, 05:00 PM
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This is all so sad IMO. We can't forget that at the hear of this is a family that is in effect splitting up. I'm sure this is so painful to HM, Philip and Charles - to see someone they love so hurt and rejecting everything they have worked so hard for and hold dear.

As ever there are those on either side who either see no fault at all in that the Sussex's do and those who only ever see fault. Those aside, more interestingly are the majority of people who are in the middle- who are prepared to give them a chance but who don't give them a free pass when they mess up. The reality is (IMO of course) that no one really knows what they want, they say they find their roles in the UK unbearable and untenable but just when you think they would say they want to live quiet lives away from the public and media they actually say they want to go to North America and in effect do what they are doing now. That doesn't seem to be solving anything other than giving them the freedom to use their royal role/title to do as and what they please including making money from it. I honestly 100% believe apart from those who will never see good in them, would happily have accepted that given how unhappy they are they should be allowed to go into private life, possibly eve taking on jobs (Harry maybe with an NGO or furthering his work with Invictus, Meghan could even go back to acting and just hold off on too many personal/family based interviews) and people would pretty much be okay with that.

As ever with the Sussex's the problems lie not necessarily even with their intentions (though at the moment they leave plenty of unanswered questions) but with the way it is all handled:

Why return home just to announce it? The Canada House engagement was apparently set up last minute so seems like it was almost solely to ensure plenty of attention on them before announcing, why come home to announce when really there is no need?

Why announce it after being told not to by HM? Yes the Sun may have leaked a version of their plan but they can't hate the media attention that much they would throw the monarchy and Harry's family under the bus just to stop the Sun from looking right surely.

Why put up your own website stating things that have not been agreed by the Household and HM? Honestly the only reason I can see for doing this is to make it harder for anyone not to give you what you've stated because doing so would be clearly evident.

If the media are too much and your tired of it (which most of us can understand) why make an announcement you know will create even more fuss and attention which says you will still continue to do so much that will inevitably create even more media attention.

If you want to still carry out duties for HM how can you honestly expect to be allowed to make money for yourselves using your titles and fame and on top of that do these public duties without using the well established Royal Rota media protocol that allows access to these public engagements by main stream media. How can you expect to handpick the media outlets that cover you. To be honest the issues with the media have not from what I can see been with the coverage of your public visits and duties. How will any of this stop the DM or other media they dislike or distrust from writing about them anyway?

If they wanted to retire from public life everyone would accept that, its that they want to effectively still be working royals as long as they can do the work they want,where they want, to the media they want, with the funding they want, seemingly returning when they want to do what they want.

I don't really understand why they need such a dramatic announcement, why say anything at all right now? They could have stayed in Canada longer, Harry could have returned to the UK for his engagement next week, then returned to Canada saying they were still enjoying some time away from it all to cherish with Archie. There was plenty of time to work out a solution surely? Unless there is a pressing reason why they want this settled so soon, I don't see what would change which meant they couldn't wait a few more weeks for an agreement with the Queen and Charles? What does announcing this now achieve? They could have used the time to discreetly put things in place so that when it was announced they had a more permanent overseas home set up or at least lined up.

There is no point keeping people doing something they are unhappy with so ultimately of course they should do what makes (or is likely to make) them happier but I'm not sure how they can just simply expect Charles to keep paying them as before and to in time start making their own money possibly from their positions.

It's sad but for the sake of a fresh start and happiness for all I really thing in some ways they need to treat this in some ways as a divorce, make a clear finance structure which allows everyone to know where they stand. A lump sum to buy a house in Canada (or maybe Charles even just buys it for them) to show he is supportive, hopefully somewhere with enough space to accommodate a small security team to prevent the public paying for renovations to house them and a smaller than now personal allowance (likely still 6 figures)

It really does seem to me that Meghan and Harry are in a poor place mentally where they see betrayal and deceit around every corner. Hopefully some time out will help them regroup and feel stronger again.
  #1115  
Old 01-10-2020, 05:02 PM
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but who is going to pay for them to keep security while they are in Canada? That is pretty expensive. What about their house in England..
  #1116  
Old 01-10-2020, 05:09 PM
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Could owning property in Canada make living there easier - does a propery owner's visa exist?
Maybe Harry has purchased a house in Canada.

Actually, I just looked up Canadian visas. It seems Harry could buy a farm and be self employed. There are also other types of ínvestent/business type visas. The thing is he would have to show that he were self employed and, in other cases, creating a Canadian job...
  #1117  
Old 01-10-2020, 05:12 PM
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I’m confused.

They’ve clearly found a house either on Vancouver Island or near, the dogs are there and it’s a place they felt safe enough to leave Archie while they were in the UK.

The Daily Mail reported they’d be back on the 20th, now they’ve reporting in tomorrows paper they’re gone for the next three months.

It’s utterly ridiculous, who is paying for their security whilst they’re in Canada where they now apparently live without representing the crown?
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  #1118  
Old 01-10-2020, 05:23 PM
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Paper exclusives saying the Queen and Charles will financially support Harry and Meghan.

Oh and now the Obamas, not Oprah, are their advisors.

As usual media just grasping for a story.
  #1119  
Old 01-10-2020, 05:26 PM
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Oh my giddy aunt, all the papers tomorrow are #megxit. ALL of them.

Many pages deep.

Deep sigh.
  #1120  
Old 01-10-2020, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
I’m confused.

They’ve clearly found a house either on Vancouver Island or near, the dogs are there and it’s a place they felt safe enough to leave Archie while they were in the UK.

The Daily Mail reported they’d be back on the 20th, now they’ve reporting in tomorrows paper they’re gone for the next three months.

It’s utterly ridiculous, who is paying for their security whilst they’re in Canada where they now apparently live without representing the crown?
Who pays for the safety of Peter, Zara, Beatrice and Eugenie?
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