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  #1081  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:10 PM
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I too believed [for a while] that she WAS 'a breath of fresh air', and would attract a [previously] unreachable demographic to 'the cause' within the UK and Commonwealth, and so she would have had she been able to stick at it ..
Someone said [upthread] that her entire experience in this country has been 'transitional'- as Girlfriend/Fiance/Bride/new Duchess/Pregnant woman/New Mother.

None of these 'states' is remotely similar to the reality of her life had she waited until she was 'bedded in', having no stability, in any of those phases.
But no, she could not 'settle' , and was not patient enough to 'just be' until she found equilibrium and has now 'flounced off' to try something else [we know not what].

'Flighty' is the word that springs to mind [in her connection], more than any other...And she has duly FLOWN, and I very much doubt she will be back..
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  #1082  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ImKevin View Post
What exactly are you insinuating? or am I right to assume this to be more of a hostile tone?
Denville, correct me if I'm wrong here but....I believe what Denville is saying is that Harry has never been and would never be a monarch even if he hadn't stepped away from his role. Yes, he was part of the monarchy as a whole as in "the institution of the monarchy" but he was never THE monarch, only the Queen is the monarch and will be followed by Charles, William, and George (barring some awful tragedy, of course).
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  #1083  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
What is predictable is Meghan the scapegoat. Meghan the sacrificial lamb.

Too many people clung to the 15 minute fame stories of Meghan from her sister. Desperate for Meghan to be this south horrible woman who could not love Harry
That she was using him for power and woukd ditch him. And now you are the cats licking your claws, preening, strutting. Of course Megan has proven you right. She is to blame for it all.

I love this picture of Harry being painted. Some how he is this brainwashed puppet dragged away from home and country, locked in exile by his wife. The poor man who devoted his life and soul to being a royal and never once spoke of leaving, is now s husk of a man. Surely he will never see his home land or family again maybe a free Harry go fundme needs creating

Being the monarch is a life long commitment. Or the heir. For lower royals it's not. They have no constitutional role. They have no Royal job to fulfill. Doing charity work is their only job. And the couple has said they plan to continue.

Prince William took a few years from royal duties to be a pilot. No one blinked. Edward and Sophie tool the first years if marriage to pursue business, no one blinked. Yet this is a treasonous sin for Harry.


I find it humorous people are cob stanly wining about cost and saying they need to slim down the monarchy. It's happening. Why aren't you happy???
I think you didn't bother to read my post.
Where did i say Meghan was an horrible south woman, did i only mention her sister so on and on ?

You're just generalising, deaf to the possible failure of your champions. I bit easy i guess.

You're maybe fan of some hagiography, i prefere history.

Thank you.
  #1084  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ImKevin View Post
What exactly are you insinuating? or am I right to assume this to be more of a hostile tone?
I'm not Denville but I am quite sure he just pointed out that Harry is not a monarch as I had exactly the same thought when reading your post. The UK has only one monarch and that is the queen. The three future monarchs (if all goes as planned) are Charles, William and George. I guess you wouldn't call every employee within a firm 'CEO' either. As there is only one who is the boss.

Harry was never expected to be the monarch - although there was a small chance if William would not have survived or not had children. That, however, doesn't mean that he had no role to play. Philip isn't a monarch and has done a great deal in support of the monarch (his wife). The princess royal isn't the monarch and has spent her whole life contributing to the monarchy, etc.

All his life Harry was prepared to be part of the firm and play a supporting role. More recently, the queen went out of her way to clearly create an 'own' path for Harry (and his then future wife) focused on the Commonwealth. It remains to be seen whether any of that will come to fruition now they are carving out a different route than the queen (and prince Charles I assume) so carefully worked on for them.
  #1085  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
I agree. I'm just waiting on the official statement that they've officially relocated, etc. I do wonder, though, about security. Their website reads like they want to keep their taxpayer funded security and while I'm sure that's what they would like, even the security personnel have families and lives in the UK. It's one thing to ask them to go on a royal tour but to ask them to up and relocate their whole lives? Surely they can't expect that.
That is why I said the Canadians will probably be asked to provide and pay for security when the family is in Canada.

That is problematic because Harry is not s Canadian citizen, doesn’t hold any public office in Canada and will not be performing any official duties in Canada on behalf of the Queen or the Canadian government. The Queen already has a Governor General at the federal level and 10 Lieutenant Governors at the provincial level to do in Canada the kind of job that she and other senior royals do in the UK.
  #1086  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Nico View Post

Because being a Princess is not a cheesy fairy tale Hallmark style. It's a difficult, ungrateful job with of course a lot of perks but with practically no room for maneuver and above all no voice. And this frame is dictated by rigid rules overseen not only by the Queen but by the Government itself behind her.
I think this paragraph is spot-on, and what many do not understand about Royal life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post

So basically you just can't do whatever you want, and, sadly, a lot feared it would simply not work. Of course the start was encouraging, the tours enjoyables and sucessful, the engagements interesting and somewhat refreshing. Then this bizarre trench warfare with the Press begin, on the name of the privacy. Understandable but not very wise and totally stained by amateurism. They didn't muzzle the press by their actions, they just provoked it. And the number 1 rule of any British royal is : don't mess with the press. Again THE RULES.
I agree the start was very encouraging, the Cookbook initiative and the Australian tour being high points of the first six months of their marriage.
Then everything went south. One has to wonder why.
I agree, they just provoked the legit press by some of their actions done in the name of 'privacy.'
The tabloids and social media are another beast altogether, but it seems everything gets lumped into one pot these days.
  #1087  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by hel View Post
The text on their funding page regarding security has been quietly changed to remove the reference to "internationally protected people". Previously, it read:

Quote:
Does their future financial autonomy extend to covering the costs of security?
The provision of armed security by The Metropolitan Police is mandated by the Home Office, a ministerial department of Her Majesty’s Government, responsible for security and law & order. The Duke and Duchess of Sussex are classified as internationally protected people which mandates this level of security.

It now states:

Quote:
The provision of armed security by The Metropolitan Police is mandated by the Home Office, a ministerial department of Her Majesty’s Government, responsible for security and law & order.


How very interesting--I see someone from the government had a word about how protection works and how it is designated.
  #1088  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
That is why I said the Canadians will probably be asked to provide and pay for security when the family is in Canada.

That is problematic because Harry is not s Canadian citizen, doesn’t hold any public office in Canada and will not be performing any official duties in Canada on behalf of the Queen or the Canadian government. The Queen already has a Governor General at the federal level and 10 Lieutenant Governors at the provincial level to do in Canada the kind of job that she and other senior royals do in the UK.
I agree with you entirely. However, I would think this would be a somewhat easy problem to solve in the middle of all of this very complicated chaos. It would appear that this would simply boil down to legalities. I suspect, and I'm not a Canadian legal expert so I could very well be wrong, that somewhere there is a law prohibiting the Canadian government from covering security issues for people who fall under the same categories that Harry, Meghan, and Archie will now be in, namely those you've listed above. In that case, should the BRF refuse to continue to cover their security when they are not explicitly acting on behalf of the institution (as I believe they absolutely should) then they would effectively be responsible for paying for their own security, should they choose to have it.
  #1089  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
I think this paragraph is spot-on, and what many do not understand about Royal life.
Americans for sure don’t; their idea of being a princess is wearing poofy dresses, finding Prince Charming and living happily ever after in a big castle...
  #1090  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
He is but I think that all this stuff about making their own money comes for Meghan. He may have dreamed of walking away but I think she has supplied the idea (as an American used to earning her own money and planning her own career) that they can "make their own money" and do not have to depend on handouts from the RF. SO Harry might have opted for "quiet retirement" from royal life and a quiet life In the UK or elsewhere on what money he has, but I think seh's the one who has said "but we don't have to do that, we can make our own income.. by using our Brand or lecture tours or whatever.."
I am afraid it does.

From the start Meghan seemed to have focused on 'using her marriage as a vehicle to achieve her own dreams' (of making a difference in this world and in doing so creating name and fame for herself) instead of 'by marrying committing both to Harry and his role within the royal family that is to support the work of the monarch' (in which there is still quite some room to develop your own initiatives that will automatically gain lots of media attention because of being royalty). From the start the brand has carefully been build. Whether this was the plan from the start; I don't know. I sincerely hope it wasn't and that it is all one big misunderstanding. However, I am afraid that they were quite focused on 'getting their way'; and when the marriage didn't bring what was expected (no full freedom to do as you please but being part of a larger organization and being accountable to those higher up) the way out seemed rather easily taken.

The problem is; marrying someone who was hesitant from the start to be part of royalty wouldn't have worked either. So, I assume Harry was happy to have found someone who was willing to take it on; but that was short lived now it became clear that being a member of the firm is not about 'realizing your own personal goals' but about duty; and within duty being able to do many things that are important to you and have influence (among other: convening power) that many people could only dream about.

In many ways it is a pity; because especially the way Meghan went about things like the Hubb were great and clearly possible from within the royal family. So, I still don't really need to understand why they need to be out/released from pretty logical boundaries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
First off there's no reason to think they want to profit off their titles/position for any other reason than to fund their charity work. Long before she met Harry she was in an interview (it was posted here long back) talking about working in order to fund it. Secondly, this is done by several members of the BRF so certainly no reason ppl should be acting like they are some sort of monsters because they want to profit off who they are.

I've seen 0 evidence either of them are interested in fame or money (other than to do their work).
Of course, we will interpret things differently. The way they created a 'brand' and carved a position for themselves doing things differently than the rest of the family, suggests that fame is at least part of it.

In their current positions there was more than sufficient room to raise money for their charities. They themselves talk about 'professional income', so that suggests that it is about more than 'funding their charity work'; there was no need to do so as that part was already covered by being a member of the royal family. There was no longer a need to do 'other work' and they could almost completely focus on charity work and highlighting causes that were important to themselves (and in addition to the monarchy and government). So, no need at all to do away with that if the main goal is to do charity work...

So, to me it seems: they want to continue living the type of life they have been leading but on their own terms instead of as part of the firm and (overtly) gaining money from it - which is a big no no in any reigning royal family. Many scandals in the past involved exactly the mixing of business and royal titles/roles.
  #1091  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
What is predictable is Meghan the scapegoat. Meghan the sacrificial lamb.

Too many people clung to the 15 minute fame stories of Meghan from her sister. Desperate for Meghan to be this south horrible woman who could not love Harry
That she was using him for power and woukd ditch him. And now you are the cats licking your claws, preening, strutting. Of course Megan has proven you right. She is to blame for it all.

I love this picture of Harry being painted. Some how he is this brainwashed puppet dragged away from home and country, locked in exile by his wife. The poor man who devoted his life and soul to being a royal and never once spoke of leaving, is now s husk of a man. Surely he will never see his home land or family again maybe a free Harry go fundme needs creating

Being the monarch is a life long commitment. Or the heir. For lower royals it's not. They have no constitutional role. They have no Royal job to fulfill. Doing charity work is their only job. And the couple has said they plan to continue.

Prince William took a few years from royal duties to be a pilot. No one blinked. Edward and Sophie tool the first years if marriage to pursue business, no one blinked. Yet this is a treasonous sin for Harry.


I find it humorous people are cob stanly wining about cost and saying they need to slim down the monarchy. It's happening. Why aren't you happy???
Nobody is stopping them from going, but they want the perks but not the role so they cannot have it both ways.
  #1092  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by evolvingdoors View Post
In regards to the bolded: the things is, when Harry spoke about life outside the royal cage it was about going and living in Africa, that was where he felt most at peace and a sense of belonging; never did that life included selling his status, playing the life of the rich and famous with cameras and Instagram influencer life style blog existence of high fashion and expensive drinks and hobnobbing with famous people who would never give you the time of day of you didn’t have an HRH before your name- that’s Meghan idea of living but that’s the life style he dislikes and which causes him so much stress and agony (by his own admission!

This life he will now have, is imo not gonna be much different to his old one, and a far cry from the Africa life he always had.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Probably Harry's dream of life in Africa wasn't all that realistic.. (livng is different to visiting).. but yes it IS different to the life that seems to be what they are now aiming at. Living in Canada/ N America, making money, mixing with the Rich and Famous Popping back to England to do royal dtuties.. And I think you're right that this is Meg's dream, not Harry's..and is even less likely to go well than if Harry walked away and went to Africa. Because He is not going to really want the cameras and the schmoozing.. (at least he has given the impression he finds the camera following him lifestyle stressful). and he and Meg may end up pulling against each other.
Their PR indeed has shown that they crave attention - but on their own terms -; and indeed, that's not what Harry communicated in previous years. He seemed to be very happy to work in the Himalaya or in safari parks among others and doing things he cared about (with the advantage that he was able to do such things for weeks at an end because he didn't have a regular job).

On the other hand, he also was part of things like Invictus, so he understood that being a royal and doing good, required that there was sufficient attention focused on him; but still that seems quite far from creating the 'Sussex Royal' brand. His reaction to the press in the Southern Africa documentary about how he is still traumatized comes to mind and the lifestyle that they seem to want (based on their website) would only bring MORE of that type of attention rather than LESS. Had he mainly focused on doing less visible royal work visits in the UK, the press would get bored at some point. Now, they won't as they keep feeding the media with both controversies and 'projects'.
  #1093  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I am convinced the Canadians will be asked to pay for security while they are staying in Canada and I am also sure that will be politically toxic for the Canadian government .
I'm still unclear as to how they'll legally establish a base here. Six month visitor visas are explicitly meant *not* to be used to establish a permanent residence.

And while Meghan would be able to get a visa if she goes back to being a working actress (and can land a role in Toronto), Harry simply doesn't qualify for any of the available immigration visas. He doesn't have the work experience for the Skilled Worker program or the self-employment visas, and no other visas even come close to fitting his profile. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...te-canada.html

Note that Canada used to have a "pay to immigrate" investor visa class, but the program has been closed.

In short, if they *do* land permanently in Canada, they're queue jumping more qualified applicants and taking gross advantage of their money and connections, with little advantage to Canada.


To be clear about something, since apparently it needs to be said: I'm not looking back at previous behaviour and viewing it through the lens of the current circumstances to find some "aha! They were evil the whole time" conclusion. I admire Meghan and Harry's work prior to this point. I just think this particular presumption that they can just move to Canada, and the hypocrisy of crying financial independence while citing Duchy funds, are poorly thought out and insupportable.
  #1094  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
I think they will be in Canada. That seems to be their goal.
Where in Canada do you think that Prince Harry and Meghan might buy a house and property?
  #1095  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Zaira View Post
Harry himself in the documentary that they do not see themselves as rebels or innovators or anything. But go ahead and believe supposed sources and all that rot.
I indeed think that the language of 'rebels' might be to strong. But their own words about “new progressive role within the institution “ and how they went about things over the last two years, clearly shows that they were intending to reform from within. So, not such a huge leap to call them 'innovators'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hel View Post
The text on their funding page regarding security has been quietly changed to remove the reference to "internationally protected people". Previously, it read:

It now states:
That's rather interesting. I expect several people will have a copy of the page as it went live yesterday, so any changes will be noticed.

I wonder whether this means their status has officially changed or that they were (only) told to remove the reference to this classification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hel View Post
I'm still unclear as to how they'll legally establish a base here. Six month visitor visas are explicitly meant *not* to be used to establish a permanent residence.

And while Meghan would be able to get a visa if she goes back to being a working actress (and can land a role in Toronto), Harry simply doesn't qualify for any of the available immigration visas. He doesn't have the work experience for the Skilled Worker program or the self-employment visas, and no other visas even come close to fitting his profile. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...te-canada.html

Note that Canada used to have a "pay to immigrate" investor visa class, but the program has been closed.

In short, if they *do* land permanently in Canada, they're queue jumping more qualified applicants and taking gross advantage of their money and connections, with little advantage to Canada.

To be clear about something, since apparently it needs to be said: I'm not looking back at previous behaviour and viewing it through the lens of the current circumstances to find some "aha! They were evil the whole time" conclusion. I admire Meghan and Harry's work prior to this point. I just think this particular presumption that they can just move to Canada, and the hypocrisy of crying financial independence while citing Duchy funds, are poorly thought out and insupportable.
I assume they travel on a diplomatic passport. I am not sure how that might be used to have him reside in Canada if he wishes.

And thanks for pointing out that the visitors visa (6 months is actually a long time for 'visiting') is explicitly not meant to be used for residential purposes.
  #1096  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
I indeed think that the language of 'rebels' might be to strong. But their own words about “new progressive role within the institution “ and how they went about things over the last two years, clearly shows that they were intending to reform from within. So, not such a huge leap to call them 'innovators'.
As I understand from the press reports, they self-identify as “disrupters”, which is one iof those trendy buzzwords that we see often in connection with the tech industry or the media/entertainment business.

I believe those reports because it looks to me like a word someone with Meghan’s background would use.
  #1097  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
His reaction to the press in the Southern Africa documentary about how he is still traumatized comes to mind and the lifestyle that they seem to want (based on their website) would only bring MORE of that type of attention rather than LESS. Had he mainly focused on doing less visible royal work visits in the UK, the press would get bored at some point. Now, they won't as they keep feeding the media with both controversies and 'projects'.
I think this is a very good point and really calls into question both their future plans and their motivations. So many people would like to spin this into a narrative about them protecting their own mental health, etc. and while that would be more than understandable and even admirable if it were true, their stated intentions and actions seem to suggest otherwise. Harry himself talked about how traumatized he was and is and even suggested that being in the spotlight and hearing cameras clicking are triggers for him. That would suggest that in order to protect his mental health they might slip away quietly to the mountains of Canada or the plains of Africa where those camera clicks would be few and far between. But, their own website seems to imply that they'll instead be using their status and profiles to become celebrities and in that case those camera clicks and spotlights will be constant. The statements and intentions simply don't mesh well together and it really needs to be made clear whether their intention is to quietly fade into a sort of anonymity (as best they can, anyway) and live a quiet life that puts his/their mental health first and allows them breathing room or if, instead, they intend to step squarely into the red carpet, glossy magazine, constantly hounded at restaurants and public places kind of life that Harry himself explicitly said multiple times that he didn't want and was traumatic for him.
  #1098  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
As I understand from the press reports, they self-identify as “disrupters”, which is one iof those trendy buzzwords that we see often in connection with the tech industry or the media/entertainment business.

I believe those reports because it looks to me like a word someone with Meghan’s background would use.
I am sorry but they were not far enough up the food change to make the changes.
  #1099  
Old 01-10-2020, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
That's rather interesting. I expect several people will have a copy of the page as it went live yesterday, so any changes will be noticed.

I wonder whether this means their status has officially changed or that they were (only) told to remove the reference to this classification.


I assume they travel on a diplomatic passport. I am not sure how that might be used to have him reside in Canada if he wishes.

And thanks for pointing out that the visitors visa (6 months is actually a long time for 'visiting') is explicitly not meant to be used for residential purposes.
I don’t know about Canada , but , in the US, if you are an employee of a foreign government on a tour of duty , you qualify for an A-1 (?) visa, which allows you to stay in the country for an undetermined period of time marked as “ duration of status”. Canada may have a similar type of visa that Harry could use if he was in the country in some official business on behalf of the UK government, but, as in the US, he would not be able to work outside the specific domain of his tour of duty, much less run any commercial business that would guarantee him “ financial independence ‘. That is not a path either to permanent residence.

I suppose the Canadian government is reportedly participating in the meetings convened on instructions by the Queen precisely to figure out how to solve these problems.
  #1100  
Old 01-10-2020, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BaiSoSo View Post
Then when the couple indicated they have had enough and can't/won't take it anymore and want to leave, the most that can be offered up is how disappointed the least impacted people are. The couple did not blindside HM, Charles or William they knew about the plan for a while. They also did not intend to release their plans so soon but when a member of either HM, Charles' or William's teams leaked their plans to the media and the media published the information, Harry & Meghan felt they needed to bring the true story forward.
I don't think it can be known for sure who leaked (and on whose 'side' that person might be on). As others have pointed out, see for example Ista's post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ista View Post
There's been a lot of unsubstantiated speculation from some Sussex supporters that any leaks must of course have come from KP, but it's pretty clear that there are multiple sources for leaks. You can't have a website like Sussex.royal or Sussex.official, which took months to build, and required human beings to build it, or multiple staff members and all the associated bureaucracy for the Sussexes as well as KP, CH and KP, and not have the potential for leaks.
The fact that Meghan planned to be in the UK for only a few days, doesn't point to them being forced. In addition, if they truly wanted to get ahead of the news providing their statement would have one thing; launching a website pretending all has been arranged is quite something else (and does not equate to bringing the true story). In addition, most people know not to take what is written in the tabloids as gospel, so many people would probably have interpreted it as gossip - at least until they found out that Archie was still in Canada and Meghan was going back.

Quote:
Meghan (and Harry) while not perfect have done nothing to deserve this type of treatment. They have done everything asked of them in the role...produced tangible projects that have helped people within the UK and Commonwealth. Represented the UK phenomenally on tours. Provided hands-on positive interactions with their patronages. Anyone who has actually worked with them has talked about how kind and sincere they are.

This couple has worked hard to give voices to people who are dismissed, disadvantaged and need assistance to go to the next level. I really hope they are able to continue to do that because the climate in the world today is awful and we could use more people like Harry and Meghan in the spotlight.
I agree they have done many good things as senior members of the royal family. I am sure if they had taken the time to discuss their concerns and wishes more thoroughly they could have come up with a workable plan in which they could continue to do things that were important to them in a way that would also work for the BRF. Instead, they have alienated themselves for quite some time and were suddenly in a rush to get things arranged. That's not how things work in historic institutions; some patience is required and if you learn how to walk that walk typically a lot can be achieved over time.
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