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  #1061  
Old 01-10-2020, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
I really have a problem with the things that are reported right now - apart from their "intent" to step down and what is written on their webpage, I have yet to hear anything from the "mouth". And I don't trust the media at all.
Reports from the media and opinions derived from said reports amount to reading between the lines and surmising what may be. With very little actually coming directly from those involved in the Sussexes "intent to step back (not down)" from their present station within the "Firm", we really don't know, for sure, what is going on and just see things colored by our own opinions. Here at the forums, we perhaps know how things work better than most as the reporting I've seen on major news channels here tells me that they're not overly informed and get things wrong a lot of times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
Plus: we are all believing that man is born free and has the right of choice how to lead his life. But where is Harry's choice? He has the right to step down as a Royal, try to finance his life independantly and live where he wants to. Or not?
A lot of stress has been put on the words "financially independent" lately and to me, a lot of it seems to be that it actually pertains to Harry and Meghan being able to pad their own pockets commercially. What confuses me here is that reading (and rereading) the funding page, it goes into detail of how they wish to become independent from the Sovereign Grant. With SussexRoyal being its own entity away from the Sovereign Grant, it would allow the foundation to commercialize much like the Royal Collection Trust and Charles' Duchy Originals products through Waitrose and generate funds to support the foundation and perhaps provide a salary for H&M and their board of directors and such pertaining to the foundation. No where does it state that H&M, themselves, wish to commercialize themselves as a commodity and I think perhaps opinions may be jumping the gun on this angle. In this respect, they wouldn't be using their titles and status to generate green dollars but their foundation, SussexRoyal would in lieu of what the Sovereign Grant provides for them now. It is also a possibility that these "contracts" that are being floated such as Disney would be in regards to the SussexRoyal Foundation and not Harry and Meghan personally. We saw the collaboration between Harry and Meghan and Disney for their "Protect the Pride" endeavor which nicely ties in with Harry's conservation efforts. If the Sussexes can get Oprah on board for a project or an incentive that they're working on, more power to them on that. When the goal is to raise funds and awareness where its needed, the more help and donations, the better. This is what I believe that "financially independent" could actually amount to but that's just my opinion here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
And if he does it is the right of his father and his grandmother to let him keep the titles he was born with or which he did acquire in his life. And pay him an apanage from the family money. But he has to accept as well if the souverain takes his titles and if his grandmother and his father keep him from the family money apart from his part of the inheritance after both his grandmother's and father's death. That's their decision and has nothing to do with him.
This is another point that, to me, comes across wrong in opinions. People are screaming that Harry should not be allowed to continue to receive funding from the Duchy of Cornwall. Truth be told, he's not ever received funding from the Duchy of Cornwall. The Prince of Wales receives his own personal income from the Duchy and whatever income he gets, he pays income taxes on like every other British citizen does. Its up to Charles how to spend his own, personal money and if he wanted to fully fund the Sussex family living in the Inner Solomon Islands raising penguins, its his right. This is what annoys me to no end. People screaming "taxpayer monies" where not one red cent from taxpayer money goes into personal pockets. Ever. Then again, Charles could turn hard as stone and totally and completely cut Harry off but I sincerely don't think he'd ever do that. It has nothing to do with the "Firm" or the monarchy side of things though and is personal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
But it's theirs to negociate and fix in some sort of contract. That's what they do at the moment - with the added presence of the governments of the states Harry could chose to live, as he only has the right to stay in the UK without limits.

All other people have IMHO nothing to add but their own opinion.

So I am sitting here and wait for more info from the source. And if there is none, I'll accept that, for it is Harrys life, not mine.

The whole media spectacle we see at the moment, all those people offering opinions and their own biased "information" do not help anyone but muddy the waters.

Harry is a British citizen - he is free to live his life the way he can afford it and he can already afford to live in comfort without doing anything or just working for charities. I am sure he has a contract about his Cottage in Windsor Home Park, so if it is his according to the basic rules, he can live there. Or somewhere else where they allow a Briton and husband of an US citizen to live.

So all is settled or in the process of being settled. That's enough for me.
And if Meghan wants to stay with Archie in Canada till Harry has settled his affairs or flew over to fetch the boy back to the Uk means nothing to me because I should not have an opinion about things I know nothing about. For I don't know Meghan and Harry.
But: as a trained journalist I can say that I am deeply ashamed to see how other journalists use their craft to write influencing pieces and lies about them for people who don't know them either, but believe they get to know them through reading.
A lot of polarity going on around us and forming opinions based on filtering very little information through our own insights. Not a whole lot of sticking to facts of who, what, when, why and how that is basic Journalism 101. We only know what we see and what we hear reported and there's a lot of bias being presented. Now if an international fly that was able to be on all the walls where things are happening were to relate what he sees and hears, that may be another ball of wax but it still would be clouded by that fly's opinions on things. This is why I'm tailgating in the middle of the road, with a hibachi and a few cold ones just observing and seeing what happens next.
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  #1062  
Old 01-10-2020, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMC View Post
I agree 100% with your comments about how Harry & Megan should have gone about achieving the privacy they claim to want so much. IMO there is absolutely no reason for all this public drama except that they want it to maximize attention on their "new brand" & as leverage to force the Queen's hand to let them go on their terms.

I also agree that it is very sad for the Queen & Prince Philip. This must be painful beyond words for them- their grandson turning his back on them in this very public way.

What I now think of the Sussexes can't be posted here, I'd be permanently banned.
I agree:
"But what I don't understand is HOW they do that.

If you want to get less attention, don't seek attention. If you want to recede into the background, don't flounce, don't make statements. Just prepare your refuge quietly, make sure you are supported, and make as little waves as possible. It's possible."


Both of them are adults, they are acting in a childish way. Harry should respect the BRF.
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  #1063  
Old 01-10-2020, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImKevin View Post
I

But I feel as if Meghan is the one whose doing more of the influencing. This is not the first time a Monarch choose his wife over his duties to the British people and the common wealth.



I a . .
Since when was Harry a monarch? Or even a future Monarch?
  #1064  
Old 01-10-2020, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
People like you too quick to believe the stories that a sister who hadn't seem her in a decade and wanted her fifteen minutes of fame, and so called friends from grade 10 sold the tabloids for cash. If we believed all the stories from former friends and insiders of other royal spouses..........
And people like you, from day 1, are still totally missing the point ...

Monarchy is not about individuals, personnal feelings etc it's about STRUCTURED WORK and DUTY.
I don't care about Ms Markle like i didn't care about Ms Middleton and Mrs Parker Bowles : i'm interested about what the duchesses of Sussex, Cambridge and Cornwall can bring to the Monarchy, what kind of work they can provide to the community and above all can they stand the test of time because the Crown is an incredibly demanding task.

From day one Ms markle was sold to the Royal watchers community as the savior of the British Monarchy because she was an activist, because she was American, because she was bi-racial and because, apparently, the institution needed some kind of a shake up. Ok.

Some had doubts, not because she was not liked personally, not because of her origins, not because of her race, because by experience, by knowledge of the Monarchy as an institution (and not a knowledge limitated by some to the DVDS of Princess Diaries 1&2), knowing the pressure of the press etc it was foreseen that it would be extremely difficult for her to adapt from a glamorous, extravert, vocal activist and actress life to a rather dull and limitated Duchess task.

Because being a Princess is not a cheesy fairy tale Hallmark style. It's a difficult, ungrateful job with of course a lot of perks but with pratically no room for maneuver and above all no voice. And this frame is dictated by rigid rules overseen not only by the Queen but by the Government itself behind her.

So basically you just can't do whatever you want, and, sadly, a lot feared it would simply not work. Of course the start was encouraging, the tours enjoyables and sucessful, the engagements interesting and somewhat refreshing. Then this bizarre trench warfare with the Press begin, on the name of the privacy. Understandable but not very wise and totally stained by amateurism. They didn't muzzle the press by their actions, they just provoked it. And the number 1 rule of any British royal is : don't mess with the press. Again THE RULES.

And it just escalated, until now. Let's be clear, of course they can renounce to their royal life, of course, if they feel so miserable, they can put their family first and move elsewhere BUT you just cant, as a Royal, as a member of a structure, and as a simple member of family, insult publicy the entire system, again with total unpreparation and amateurism, by forcing the hand of the Queen, forcing the hand of the Government, wich is maybe worse, and making the Monarchy a total laughing stock in front of the entire World.

From a basic dynastic, historic, royal, Windsorian point of view the Sussexes, are, at this time and by their actions, a failure. And it has, at least for me, nothing to do with Harry and Meghan, but it has much to do with the actions of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex and the consequences on the entire State entity.

And yes, i'm sorry to say, it was predictable from the start.
  #1065  
Old 01-10-2020, 02:43 PM
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I have read a lot of Wallis Simpson & Edward books this summer. It was not a similar situation as the man was already a king, not a younger brother.
Edward had said in his teens that he des not much like the idea of the kingship, and thought early how to opt out: “Thankfully, there is Bertie.” The problem was he really liked money and luxury and was very insensitive to propriety in this regard. He also created the “narrative” of the cold, distant Windsor family spirit – it suited him. He lacked the critical skills of understanding what would happen if he married Wallis – that is, he didn’t know British people. Some say he used Wallis as his passport out – and that she, clever though she was, didn’t understand this, until it was too late. She was a gambler of destinies, and very fond of Mr. Ernest Simpson---

It was an odd business that Windsor story, but this is a different situation.
Harry as a younger brother has said he has been thinking of opting out for a long time. Now that he has a family and a wife who is no shrinking violet -there was an opportunity. I don’t think they are or will be as inappropriate, sybaritic and shallow as Edward & Wallis. There was no social media in 1936 - but a stern conservative view of an embarrassing former monarch in the UK. His German sympathies and a keen campaign to get a diplomatic post (= to avoid taxes) make him a small man with shabby mindset and poor political skills.

Harry is like Diana, partly a stubborn survivor of a “broken” (divorce) family, partly an opportunist with a long-time plan. After seeing those 12- and 15-year-old boys at their Mother’s funeral – yes, this was one of possible outcomes. It does not mean Harry does not love his father of brother. It does not make him "small" unavoidably - we shall see what will happen in the future

Queen Mary raised six very different children ( ... or non-raised, as she didn't much like or understand children, and let the King bully them) but sometimes things just happen. Prince Charles has only two children, and these are modern times - at Harry's age you start to think about the rest of your life....And he has his great-grandmother's and his mother's inheritance as an income.
  #1066  
Old 01-10-2020, 02:45 PM
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I was watching the breakfast TV as I got ready to go to work and there were two female writers interviews about the Sussexes. One was black and one was white and that is only important because you can imagine who was shouting about racism and who was arguing that it wasn't that bad. They were literally, on TV, tearing stripes. And it is not the first time I saw this. I have all kinds of issues reducing Meghan to the race card.

But to be frank. Meghan and Harry have participated in the creation of a toxic volatile.relationship with both public and media and I am.glad they are leaving to be honest. What would ha e been the next step?

Behind it all though we have two vulnerable and lonely people. A women who had no understanding of the stituation she was marrying into. And a man who lost his way. Meghan would have left this Christmas. I don't think she will ever really be back at all. It says a lot for his commitment and love for her that Harry went too.

I hope it works out well but I think that mutting of her voice Meghan hated will be there as long as she is married to Harry. She absolutely just did not get it. I agree they have acted badly and that it looks increasingly likely all those stories about them being the greatest thing in the monarchy now looks like a plant. What fools.
  #1067  
Old 01-10-2020, 02:51 PM
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I am saddened that the distance between Prince William and Prince Harry is widening. And that only happened from the moment Meghan entered Harry's life.
Prince Harry had an important role within the Royal Family, and he will leave that role.
The Dukes of Sussex should never have gotten all this messed up.
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  #1068  
Old 01-10-2020, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Since when was Harry a monarch? Or even a future Monarch?

What exactly are you insinuating? or am I right to assume this to be more of a hostile tone?
  #1069  
Old 01-10-2020, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post


With SussexRoyal being its own entity away from the Sovereign Grant, it would allow the foundation to commercialize much like the Royal Collection Trust and Charles' Duchy Originals products through Waitrose and generate funds to support the foundation and perhaps provide a salary for H&M and their board of directors and such pertaining to the foundation. No where does it state that H&M, themselves, wish to commercialize themselves as a commodity and I think perhaps opinions may be jumping the gun on this angle. In this respect, they wouldn't be using their titles and status to generate green dollars but their foundation, SussexRoyal would in lieu of what the Sovereign Grant provides for them now.



This is another point that, to me, comes across wrong in opinions. People are screaming that Harry should not be allowed to continue to receive funding from the Duchy of Cornwall. Truth be told, he's not ever received funding from the Duchy of Cornwall. The Prince of Wales receives his own personal income from the Duchy and whatever income he gets, he pays income taxes on like every other British citizen does. Its up to Charles how to spend his own, personal money and if he wanted to fully fund the Sussex family living in the Inner Solomon Islands raising penguins, its his right.

I have to disagree. Even taking a salary from the Sussex Royal Foundations smacks of profit made on the back of charitable endeavors. It is self-serving. And the only reason they can even have a "Sussex Royal" foundation is because of who Harry's family is. I think "Royal" should be stripped from the foundation's name.

Saying "Truth be told, he's not ever received funding from the Duchy of Cornwall" is semantics. Harry & Meghan have absolutely received Duchy of Cornwall money. Charles paid for expenses relating to their Royal life that were not covered by the Sovereign Grant. Any expenses they have not directly related to being a Royal (i.e. raising penguins in the Solomon Islands,) should not be paid for by Duchy of Cornwall funds.

If Charles wants to give them money from his personal fortune, fine-as a father he can do that.
  #1070  
Old 01-10-2020, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
They took the dogs with them when they moved to Canada in November. Two dogs were seen with them in Vancouver.

And yes, now I believe they have moved already and never had any intention of returning to live and work in the UK.
I agree. I'm just waiting on the official statement that they've officially relocated, etc. I do wonder, though, about security. Their website reads like they want to keep their taxpayer funded security and while I'm sure that's what they would like, even the security personnel have families and lives in the UK. It's one thing to ask them to go on a royal tour but to ask them to up and relocate their whole lives? Surely they can't expect that.
  #1071  
Old 01-10-2020, 02:55 PM
Courtier
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
Thank you for these kind words. I hope so, too.


And here is my question again: what reliable information do we have apart from the Sussexes writing they "intend" to step back (and we know how this family means things that are "intended") and that BP stated it takes time to negociate and organize it all, but that they are all on it.


Everthing else is just rumours and opinions. Discussions of people who have nothing to do with what is happening. A media who always prefers clickbait to truth and "grey men" with their own agenda.



I still sit back and wait, but seeing this, I can understand Harry and Meghan wanting to change their situation right in the middle of so much meddling and interference of people who have nothing to do with it all.
If it had been the statement alone I might have agreed with you, and the general public would have supported them, but IMO the website gave the game away. They did not need to release that when they did.
So we need to ask why they released it when they did, and also the contents, some people call it a wishlist others a list of demands.

I would suggest this is what they want and think they are entitled to or why put it out there.

This was not an overnight update, this was well planned.

I think it is also worth noting that different stories' in the press in the past few months that were dismissed as ' rubbish' or 'lies' or trouble makers or the old favourite ' the daily fail' are beginning to look a bit more like fact.

e.g. American agents, house hunting in USA ( I accept it appears to be Canada) but the principle is there.

The failure to go to Balmoral is now explained also the failure to visit at Christmas. The queen was bad mouthed on this forum for not inviting them up to Scotland, anybody that knows anything about her knows that would be untrue.

They left their child in a foreign country, and Meghan has went right back to him.

So does that now put a question mark around the fact that they were forced into releasing the statement early because it was leaked in that days paper....just putting that out there...

The clues were there, some people picked up on them and were told they were haters, but nevertheless all very sad.

I would say the ' feeling' in general is by all means if they wish to go well God speed, but they are not keeping the trappings, unless they pay for them.

IMO they have over estimated the public opinion especially how they have treated the queen. Harry knows his family well enough, that to me was the hand of somebody that does not understand royal life and ways,
  #1072  
Old 01-10-2020, 02:55 PM
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  #1073  
Old 01-10-2020, 02:56 PM
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For all the people saying how disrespectful this all is towards the Queen, I wonder how she would feel if given the chance to read these comments. She might be pissed off right now (or not, who knows), but this is still her grandson and her granddaughter in law. They haven’t killed anyone so I’m sure she still loves them.
  #1074  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
We have nothing to go on that he alienated from his entire family but tabloids.

He is certainly not in exile from the UK. You make it sound like he has been forced to leave his beloved country forever. One he chose to move and two he can and plans to return for work. Many people leave the country of their birth for many reasons like work or love and shocking ply they are happy.

You have him painted as some poor exile living in misery separated from all he knows. Instead of building a life he Chose with his wife and son in a country they both clearly feel a connection to or they'd not choose it.

Some how millions of expats do it every day and seem quite happy at it
THat is right by all means he can go and live abroad but the tax payer should not have to pick up the tab. i,e free accomodation and security.
  #1075  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Elenath View Post
For all the people saying how disrespectful this all is towards the Queen, I wonder how she would feel if given the chance to read these comments. She might be pissed off right now (or not, who knows), but this is still her grandson and her granddaughter in law. They haven’t killed anyone so I’m sure she still loves them.
I am also sure that the Queen still loves her grandson. Regardless of Prince Harry's decisions.
And I also believe that Prince Harry loves his grandmother.
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  #1076  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:02 PM
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Most people seem to be approaching the situation as something that is “all or nothing.” Either “Harry and Meghan did nothing wrong, it’s the RF’s fault for not supporting them and giving them what they want” or “They’re just rich, spoiled brats who want all the trappings of being royalty without the responsibilities.” I feel very conflicted.

On one hand, the abuse that Meghan has faced by the press is abhorrent and shameful. She was in a place where she didn’t have her solid support system, she comes from a background where her only solid familial support is her mother... the RF is private about these matters but it appears she wasn’t given a lot of support, and I bet was told to keep a stiff upper lip and ignore it and keep working. I don’t blame her for not wanting to keep calm and carry on with that kind of abuse hurled at her! And Harry for wanting to protect and stand up for his wife! No wonder if he’s upset with his family for not doing the same. I don’t blame them for wanting to get away from it all and raise their child in a more welcoming, peaceful environment away from the press and attention.

On the other hand, I think that they were naive in thinking that they could come in and change a 1,000 year old institution so quickly and so radically. It’s very clear that the Queen and Prince Charles were not consulted and that Buckingham Palace was pretty blindsided by all of this, and of course it ended up blowing up in their face.

Both sides made mistakes. Harry and Meghan aren’t perfect. The Royal Family isn’t perfect. But I think those most at fault are those who spent 2 years treating her so terribly and making her feel like she wasn’t welcome in the UK or as part of the royal family. Yes, she’s a change. But change isn’t always bad. She wants to do good things in the world, as does Harry, and I’m hoping with more independence they’ll be able to do so. I do think it’s sad that they appear to be estranged from the family at a time when the Queen and Prince Philip, with whom Harry has always been very close, may not be around for too much longer.
  #1077  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:03 PM
O-H Anglophile's Avatar
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I am being reminded of this phrase for some reason--

What's the meaning of the phrase 'There is no such thing as bad publicity'?

'There is no such thing as bad publicity' is the notion that all mentions in the media aid a person's cause, even if they put them in a bad light.

  #1078  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:03 PM
Courtier
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blog Real View Post
I am also sure that the Queen still loves her grandson. Regardless of Prince Harry's decisions.
And I also believe that Prince Harry loves his grandmother.
I agree of course she still loves him, and he loves her, all the more reason to treat her with respect.
  #1079  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post
And people like you, from day 1, are still totally missing the point ...

Monarchy is not about individuals, personnal feelings etc it's about STRUCTURED WORK and DUTY.
I don't care about Ms Markle like i didn't care about Ms Middleton and Mrs Parker Bowles : i'm interested about what the duchesses of Sussex, Cambridge and Cornwall can bring to the Monarchy, what kind of work they can provide to the community and above all can they stand the test of time because the Crown is an incredibly demanding task.

From day one Ms markle was sold to the Royal watchers community as the savior of the British Monarchy because she was an activist, because she was American, because she was bi-racial and because, apparently, the institution needed some kind of a shake up. Ok.

Some had doubts, not because she was not liked personally, not because of her origins, not because of her race, because by experience, by knowledge of the Monarchy as an institution (and not a knowledge limitated by some to the DVDS of Princess Diaries 1&2), knowing the pressure of the press etc it was foreseen that it would be extremely difficult for her to adapt from a glamorous, extravert, vocal activist and actress life to a rather dull and limitated Duchess task.

Because being a Princess is not a cheesy fairy tale Hallmark style. It's a difficult, ungrateful job with of course a lot of perks but with pratically no room for maneuver and above all no voice. And this frame is dictated by rigid rules overseen not only by the Queen but by the Government itself behind her.

So basically you just can't do whatever you want, and, sadly, a lot feared it would simply not work. Of course the start was encouraging, the tours enjoyables and sucessful, the engagements interesting and somewhat refreshing. Then this bizarre trench warfare with the Press begin, on the name of the privacy. Understandable but not very wise and totally stained by amateurism. They didn't muzzle the press by their actions, they just provoked it. And the number 1 rule of any British royal is : don't mess with the press. Again THE RULES.

And it just escalated, until now. Let's be clear, of course they can renounce to their royal life, of course, if they feel so miserable, they can put their family first and move elsewhere BUT you just cant, as a Royal, as a member of a structure, and as a simple member of family, insult publicy the entire system, again with total unpreparation and amateurism, by forcing the hand of the Queen, forcing the hand of the Government, wich is maybe worse, and making the Monarchy a total laughing stock in front of the entire World.

From a basic dynastic, historic, royal, Windsorian point of view the Sussexes, are, at this time and by their actions, a failure. And it has, at least for me, nothing to do with Harry and Meghan, but it has much to do with the actions of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex and the consequences on the entire State entity.

And yes, i'm sorry to say, it was predictable from the start.
What is predictable is Meghan the scapegoat. Meghan the sacrificial lamb.

Too many people clung to the 15 minute fame stories of Meghan from her sister. Desperate for Meghan to be this south horrible woman who could not love Harry
That she was using him for power and woukd ditch him. And now you are the cats licking your claws, preening, strutting. Of course Megan has proven you right. She is to blame for it all.

I love this picture of Harry being painted. Some how he is this brainwashed puppet dragged away from home and country, locked in exile by his wife. The poor man who devoted his life and soul to being a royal and never once spoke of leaving, is now s husk of a man. Surely he will never see his home land or family again maybe a free Harry go fundme needs creating

Being the monarch is a life long commitment. Or the heir. For lower royals it's not. They have no constitutional role. They have no Royal job to fulfill. Doing charity work is their only job. And the couple has said they plan to continue.

Prince William took a few years from royal duties to be a pilot. No one blinked. Edward and Sophie tool the first years if marriage to pursue business, no one blinked. Yet this is a treasonous sin for Harry.


I find it humorous people are cob stanly wining about cost and saying they need to slim down the monarchy. It's happening. Why aren't you happy???
  #1080  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:05 PM
Courtier
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
I am being reminded of this phrase for some reason--

What's the meaning of the phrase 'There is no such thing as bad publicity'?

'There is no such thing as bad publicity' is the notion that all mentions in the media aid a person's cause, even if they put them in a bad light.
Yes and it will be used by certain parties about how hurt they are and how the wicked british people treated them badly, Aye right,

the mask has fell,
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