The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[Ista]

From the Guardian:

"It is claimed they ignored a request by the Queen not to go public until matters were sorted. The couple are reported to have summoned their own aides to their Frogmore Cottage home in Windsor on Monday evening. Despite entreaties from those aides not to release a statement, as it was “disrespectful” to the Queen and also “shooting themselves in the foot”, their minds were made up, sources told the Daily Mail.

One source told the newspaper they had been “holed up” in Canada, away from the influence of palace aides, in a “vacuum, thinking and plotting, winding each other up”. On their return, it was said, they would “listen to no one but each other”."

There's been a lot of unsubstantiated speculation from some Sussex supporters that any leaks must of course have come from KP, but it's pretty clear that there are multiple sources for leaks. You can't have a website like Sussex.royal or Sussex.official, which took months to build, and required human beings to build it, or multiple staff members and all the associated bureaucracy for the Sussexes as well as KP, CH and KP, and not have the potential for leaks.

[rob2008]

Originally Posted by Somebody

That points to many who stated that it would be necessary for Meghan to first experience what life in the UK was like before making important life decisions such as marrying the son of the future king of that country. If she truly never liked the UK and did never intend to become a UK-based British senior royal she should have made it clear before the wedding; in that case Harry might still have chosen Meghan (which of course many wouldn't have take well) but they nor the BRF would have gone through what they have gone through and are going through now.

Originally Posted by Betsypaige

I think Harry is squandering much of the good will people - not just the British - have towards him. Most of us are not royals, but all of us have parents/grandparents/siblings, etc.. and no decent person could support the Sussexes in their treatment of family...

We will all miss Harry who has been a fairly bright and positive fixture of British public life for decades. However, he married in mid thirties and chose an American wife set in her ways with a long TV career behind her and utterly different values and loyalties. The dream when she married into the family was that she would settle in and conform. But she was too old and too americanised to do that - and maybe too stubborn. She could have become a fun and lively figure spreading good will, wisdom and charm at those endless engagements - meeting public sector workers, hospitals, fire fighters, civic dignitaries and VIPs, formal dinners, Festival of Remembrance, walkabout crowds and basically the cross section of British society who the monarchy reflect and care about.

We have a 'contract' after all - we average Joes support them and they support us. But it seems Meghan was not able to fit into the expectations that we have of the monarchy. Americans do not 'get' the way that British life operates around the public service model of HMQ and family.

I sincerely hope Harry is all right. It is sad to lose him but his new loyalty appears to be to his wife - who is reluctant to share him in the usual way because she is unable to adapt. The newspapers, the public, those in authority, officials etc all have welcomed her. She was refreshing. Her mixed background has been a definite plus because we see the friendly woman who our Harry has chosen and who is a different kind of choice and yet is not 'different'. We wish them to reflect the best of British in all its wonderful diversity.

It's worth repeating - the problem is that Meghan just cannot adapt. If she has experienced racism in the UK then this will have come from informal and antisocial sources. Racism is not tolerated here. Both of them could have done so much to suppress unpleasant attitudes of discrimination and hatred as part of their public duty.

Key point - I hope Harry is ok. This is his choice so let's accept it and support him - even though it is unhelpful and probably a selfish decision. He had a role of sustaining and even strengthening the British monarchy as it integrates into the British way of life but has chosen the sidelines instead. Hope that works for him because its not contributing to the UK or the Firm.

A horrible thought is that they will both become one of the regular turns in those glossy Oprah style discussion programmes where everyone wears an inch of make up and has Mr Whippy hair dos - lucrative but vacuous, no credibility and ethically questionable.

The Crown will win. Those who are loyal will increase in standing - Charles and Camilla, the Middletons, Anne/Ed. They will all gain in stature in contrast to the bolter. Bless 'im.

[O-H Anglophile]

Originally Posted by RoyalNight

Were Sussexes mentioned in the Christmas Broadcast? If not it might hurt they feelings. They know their place, but it's still nice to be recognized, especially if you pit worki in, and it's a family firm. Also, I can see them hurt by the lack of Archie's photo. His birth was surely a highlight of the year. Was he even mentioned in the speech?
I know Sussexes are down the succession line, but they were supposed to be front-line royal represantives, at least till Cambridge kids are old enough. And IMO in popularity and recognizability (is that a word?) H&M are equal to W&K.

Archie was mentioned in the speech. This isn’t about “hurt feelings.” And I didn’t see Princess Anne’s photo either—and she’s the hardest working Royal after Charles.

This is a well thought out plan to try to get their own way, one way or the other.
The avoidance of visiting Balmoral this summer makes a lot of sense now-I think this has been planned by H&M for a long time-and I don’t think Harry could face his grandmother.

[sophie25]

Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile

If there was ever any thought that Harry (and Meghan) would not be fulltime working royals—the Queen would not have given them the Commonwealth roles she did. Nor would some of the patronages been passed to them.
IMO, This is a story dreamed up by Sussex fans to present their heroes in a more positive light.

I agree, there's a slimmed down Monarchy and then there's an absolutely skeletal one! It was my understanding that when Charles took the throne the BRF would consist of himself, Camilla, his sons and their wives and his grandchildren. This was represented at the Diamond Jubilee where BOTH of his sons appeared on the balcony as part of what many interpreted as the future slimmed down royal family. William's children are decades away from royal duties so of course Harry was going to be needed to support his father alongside William. Bradby is talking nonsense IMO.

[Pranter]

Originally Posted by evolvingdoors

I’m gonna bet every single property I own and every dime I have, that if true this was not the original plan for the couple.

The fact Meghan was originally added to the foundation, the big wedding, the house, the patronage’s and president/vp positions given speak to that.

My guess is, if this is true due to Meghan not being able to wait to launch her silly brand and commercialize and profit off her title, then **** started hitting the fan with these two, so the family had to make a decision. And Harry with Meghan is too much of a wild card. If things were different, if it was just Harry, or Harry and a spouse who cared about duty and not money and fame, this decision, again if true, would not have happened.

It may not of been....but the continuing situation with them since day one has made that perhaps not possible.

First off there's no reason to think they want to profit off their titles/position for any other reason than to fund their charity work. Long before she met Harry she was in an interview (it was posted here long back) talking about working in order to fund it. Secondly, this is done by several members of the BRF so certainly no reason ppl should be acting like they are some sort of monsters because they want to profit off who they are.

I've seen 0 evidence either of them are interested in fame or money (other than to do their work).



LaRae

[Elenath]

Originally Posted by Nico

That's exactly the Sussexes are trying to do by :
- Provide access to credible media outlets focused on objective news reporting to cover key moments and events;
- Continue to share information directly to the wider public via their official communications channels;
- No longer participate in the Royal Rota system.

Basically they are making a difference between "good" and "bad" journalism, which is higly subjective.

Would this be do awful? It gives them more freedom and control over what is printed. I doubt they only want positive news to come out, they never said this, they don’t want the media to print lies or half-truths. Doesn’t seem so unreasonable to me. And there is a difference between good and bad journalism and irony agreeing or disagreeing with what’s printed. The Daily Mail is bad, The Times is good journalism.

Originally Posted by Pranter

It may not of been....but the continuing situation with them since day one has made that perhaps not possible.

First off there's no reason to think they want to profit off their titles/position for any other reason than to fund their charity work. Long before she met Harry she was in an interview (it was posted here long back) talking about working in order to fund it. Secondly, this is done by several members of the BRF so certainly no reason ppl should be acting like they are some sort of monsters because they want to profit off who they are.

I've seen 0 evidence either of them are interested in fame or money (other than to do their work).

LaRae

This, a lot of people here, and elsewhere, are being a bit dramatic. Just wait and see what happens before accusing them of things that haven’t happened yet.

[Pranter]

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

I am also beginning to wonder if the Sussexes were not irritated/affected by all the gloating in the media pointing out how HMQ had removed their photo from the background of her Christmas speech.

It's a little thing....but i am starting to see the drip drip effect of what they might have considered as rejection.

I don't think the picture 'issue' has anything to do with any of this....it was the heir line made prominent.



LaRae

[Mirabel]

Originally Posted by Pranter

I don't think the picture 'issue' has anything to do with any of this....it was the heir line made prominent.



LaRae

But Harry has always known that he is the spare.
Even though Diana said that she and Charles were scrupulous about treating both boys the same, she admitted that others in the RF insisted on emphasizing the importance of William.

So, it's not as if this comes as a shock to Harry and Meghan.

[wyevale]

Imagine if the gender roles were switched and it was Max Markle doing this to Princess Harriet.
Everyone would be crying controlling and isolating partner. “She’s not the fun loving person she used to be” etc.

[Ista]

Originally Posted by Elenath

Would this be do awful? It gives them more freedom and control over what is printed. I doubt they only want positive news to come out, they never said this, they don’t want the media to print lies or half-truths. Doesn’t seem so unreasonable to me. And there is a difference between good and bad journalism and irony agreeing or disagreeing with what’s printed. The Daily Mail is bad, The Times is good journalism.

As long as they are doing work for the British monarchy, and therefore the British government, any attempt to limit their coverage to only positive coverage is untenable. They have to accept that not everything they do is going to be free of criticism, which apparently is an issue for them. So yes, it would be awful. The only way to control that stuff is to go the celebrity route, which apparently is where this is headed, as many other posters on this thread have noted.

[ACO]

Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile

If there was ever any thought that Harry (and Meghan) would not be fulltime working royals—the Queen would not have given them the Commonwealth roles she did. Nor would some of the patronages been passed to them.
IMO, This is a story dreamed up by Sussex fans to present their heroes in a more positive light.

Not sure it is a dreamed up anything. People are just going by what it being presented. That is the new version of events. I actually agree that I don't think talks of a slimmed down monarchy was the sole reason but I do think Harry knew it was going to eventually happen. So it played a role. Not a major one but I would be surprised if at one point he didn't mention it.

As for that statement itself, Valentin Low from The Times has posted an interesting article on what he seems to have learned about what took place in the days leading up to it.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/h...ting-j7ggx9bnm

The whole thing just sounds unfortunate and a mess. I really don't think anyone is particularly happy right now and they need to find out who this leak is. People claimed it was a Sussexes to sped up the process but Dan Wootton went on record saying that he was working on this story for 2 weeks and that their people tried to stop him and Low's article seems to confirm it. His source is within BP.

[marlene]

I just read an article that said that they have been consulting with Oprah Winfrey about this and that she had encouraged them and helped them plan their exit. Has anyone else read this? Not sure if it's true.

[LadyGlendower]

Originally Posted by Pranter

It may not of been....but the continuing situation with them since day one has made that perhaps not possible.

First off there's no reason to think they want to profit off their titles/position for any other reason than to fund their charity work. Long before she met Harry she was in an interview (it was posted here long back) talking about working in order to fund it. Secondly, this is done by several members of the BRF so certainly no reason ppl should be acting like they are some sort of monsters because they want to profit off who they are.

I've seen 0 evidence either of them are interested in fame or money (other than to do their work).



LaRae

Up until now the restraints of being fully in the fold have been in place. Harry has been famous all of his life. He has been wealthy all of his life.

His wife has not----and once again, this makes her no better or worse than the rest of us. It's been my observation that most people that choose show business as a career do desire both fame and fortune and that is totally normal. It doesn't mean that that focus never changes for them. Time will tell whether Meghan's fascination with branding becomes a means to a good and charitable end or the continuation of what was an essential part of being in the entertainment industry.

But as a couple, their handling of this has been abysmal.

[sophie25]

Originally Posted by marlene

I just read an article that said that they have been consulting with Oprah Winfrey about this and that she had encouraged them and helped them plan their exit. Has anyone else read this? Not sure if it's true.

IF it is true I'd like to now why they are consulting Oprah Winfrey, what on Earth does she know about the BRF? This is turning into a nightmare!!!

[_Heather_]

Originally Posted by Betsypaige

As an American, I have no desire to see Harry and Meghan living here...not after this has all gone down.

Same. 100% same. I've been a longtime royal watcher, a subscriber to magazines about royals, etc. and I can't tell you how long it's been since I actually read a magazine cover to cover when it includes an article about these two. I've become more and more disillusioned with them and their behavior and attitudes and I really can't stomach them. I certainly don't want them living here and I absolutely would never consider them to be "our royalty." I think it's become starkly clear that for many Americans that consider themselves to be royal watchers they're really only casual royal observers to have zero understanding of the history of the institution and that thinking behind it or the division and differences between royalty and celebrity. For those serious royal watchers, which I would certainly consider myself apart of, this move is widely seen as appalling. Not because they wanted out, but because of the way they went about it. Had they announced at their engagement or marriage that they would be stepping away there might have been a little bit of surprise but no hard feelings. However, this bombshell and resulting chaotic mess has shown their true colors and many Americans who consider themselves to be serious royal watchers are quite put out with them and certainly unwilling to welcome them to be "our royals."

[ACO]

Originally Posted by marlene

I just read an article that said that they have been consulting with Oprah Winfrey about this and that she had encouraged them and helped them plan their exit. Has anyone else read this? Not sure if it's true.

Oprah has already been asked on her tour and she denied the story. This came from Page 6 in the US. It is basically the gossip section and they clearly trying to stir the pot for some clicks. They also asked Serena who refused to comment. They just going after all the high profile people they know.

[leene]

What a mess.
You can have an own live and job outside the royal house and still be a part of the family. Look at the Netherlands. Constantijn and Laurentien have their own jobs , now and then we see them, with Kingsday, prince Claus awards etc. They do not get an allowance from the government although they will receive money for their expenses I suppose. Can't they have this Dutch construction

However I have the feeling that this is not what Harry and Meghan want. It seems to me that they want it all and not have the press intrusion. Well I don't think that is possible. Have and the priviliges and the allowances of royalty and have a own job and live in the UK and USA.
If you don't want the British tabloids and the obligations , move out, live in a tiny house, live your life and shut up... in the end people will loose their interest.
What Harry and Meghan do is continually fuel the fire... I wonder who their advisors are

[Ista]

Originally Posted by ACO

As for that statement itself, Valentin Low from The Times has posted an interesting article on what he seems to have learned about what took place in the days leading up to it.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/h...ting-j7ggx9bnm

The whole thing just sounds unfortunate and a mess. I really don't think anyone is particularly happy right now and they need to find out who this leak is. People claimed it was a Sussexes to sped up the process but Dan Wootton went on record saying that he was working on this story for 2 weeks and that their people tried to stop him and Low's article seems to confirm it. His source is within BP.

I agree that this is an interesting article, and, assuming it is mostly accurate, makes me feel a lot of sympathy for Sarah Latham and co. The previously published comments about the Sussexes operating in a silo and listening to no one certainly seem to have some merit.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by sophie25

I agree, there's a slimmed down Monarchy and then there's an absolutely skeletal one! It was my understanding that when Charles took the throne the BRF would consist of himself, Camilla, his sons and their wives and his grandchildren. This was represented at the Diamond Jubilee where BOTH of his sons appeared on the balcony as part of what many interpreted as the future slimmed down royal family. William's children are decades away from royal duties so of course Harry was going to be needed to support his father alongside William. Bradby is talking nonsense IMO.

Under Queen Elizabeth II, we don’t get and won’t get a slimmed-down monarchy ( see last year’s Trooping balcony ). So any talk of a slimmed-down monarchy is merely a possibility in a Charles reign that may be still years away.

In any case, slimmed-down monarchy in continental European terms normally means the King and Queen, the heir and the heir’s consort, the heir’s children, and the King’s younger children who are not the heir.plus their wives possibly. Grandchildren such as Archie would be out, but It is highly unlikely that Charles would make such a radical change as to exclude Harry and Meghan also.


That story feels like it was engineered to give the Sussexes an alibi, which is a bad one by the way as it is actually inconsistent with their message to begin with.

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by Emme

As a journalist, we all have specific beats, subjects and angles we cover. It is immature to label someone doing their job as “little,” because you don’t like what they’re reporting.



These are dangerous times for journalists and overall freedoms of the press and information.

Thanks for the personality assessment but I’ll carry on with my freedom of speech thank you.