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  #561  
Old 01-09-2020, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
I mean even Archie. That poor child was barely a day old when he got a taste of his first racist experience. Honestly was anyone surprised? Harry is insanely protective of Meghan but you would imagine it is that times 10 with Archie. It is just fact that the Sussexes will experience different hardships than any of the other royals. They all have had it rough but there is some that is unique and that hurt and frustration other can't understand.
I don’t want to second guess Harry and Meghan’s parenting skills and it is not up to me to do it, but they took their 5-month son on an 11-hour flight and a two-week tour of Southern Africa. That doesn’t seem like something overprotective parents would do. Then they subjected him to another abrupt change of environment on a six-week stay in Canada in the late fall/early winter.

Anyway , the important point here is that yesterday’s announcement has little to do, I think, with protecting Archie or anything of that sort, but rather with Harry and Meghan’s wish to be free agents and carve out their “ new progressive role” without any supervision basically telling everybody else that they should take it or leave it.

And, yes, either because of his own emotional issues, or because someone ( Meghan or whoever) put him up to it, Harry was led to believe that he is underappreciated or is being held back by the Royal Family and that he should rise against that to reach his full potential. It is arrogant, pretentious and , even worse, detached from reality ( even paranoid), but it appears to be what happened.
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  #562  
Old 01-09-2020, 10:15 AM
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Social media is unfortunately a huge problem. Several Members of Parliament stood down at the election last month because of the abuse they were having to put up with, and pop stars and sports players have also spoken out about some of the stuff that's been aimed at them. And it does seem that women get more hassle than men, so I sympathise with Meghan on that. I wish there was a way of controlling it. But stepping back from royal duties isn't going to stop people from saying things on social media.
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  #563  
Old 01-09-2020, 10:19 AM
ACO ACO is offline
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Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
Does anybody think that they forced the issue thinking they would get what they wanted which is a way to earn their own money but still do royal duties as and when, or do they really want out full stop, and were fed up with delays. The thing is they were away for at least 6 weeks, I know there is e mail and skype etc but surely this should have been discussed in a face to face situation with all relevant parties.

I don't know about the royals but I am shattered with it all.
Well based on the new reports it appears Harry spoke briefly to The Queen and Charles over this break to talk about this transition. It seems he was a bit brushed off over it and I would guess grew frustrated? That seems to be the angle we are getting now.

This Morning had correspondent Camilla Tominey on and she implied that the royals saw this 6 week break as time of reflection and a recharge for the Sussexes in hopes they would return to the royal fold. Only the opposite clearly happened. So then conversation a week ago started again and well then last night happened.

But who really knows.
  #564  
Old 01-09-2020, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Have you actually seen how many times the ppl here use tabloid articles to back their point? You can dismiss it as silly but that is the reality of what we see ppl using as 'evidence'. Press coverage as a whole has been atrocious. Social Media has been a absolute zoo.


LaRae
I have. - And that's why the BRF threads have been closed temporarily so many times. People, understandably, are up in arms over some of the atrocious things written.
But these are not examples of the whole media-coverage.

So I still disagree with you Pranter and Zonk. I believe Meghan has been treated reasonably by the mainstream press. And here I mean BBC, the Times, the New York Times as well as the local papers.

It is a well known, albeit deplorable fact that the British tabloids are world-leaders in being rude. - Whether that can continue is open to debate.
So yes, they would have a go at Meghan as they have had at others. And if it sells they go further. And way beyond, orders of magnitudes beyond, what is acceptable in most other countries.
But the British tabloids do not represent the entire British press, nor do the represent the British public, even though they love to claim they do.

So yes, the British press are bad (and IMO in serious need of control) but those who have read the Spanish threads know what has been said in public and in pretty serious papers there about Queen Letizia. That can easily rival what has been said about Meghan!

Within their confines the Swedish press has been pretty harsh on Madeleine. There even seemed to be a genuine consensus there that she couldn't do anything right. At all.

The German gossip magazines are infamous for inventing and even fabricating stories about royals. The British tabloids being unimaginative in comparison.

It's what they write in the papers Joe and Jolene Average, the middle class family from the suburbs, don't mind having lying on the living room table when you come visiting that matters IMO.

And it's when those media turn against you, that you are in trouble. H&M are in that position. If not before then certainly now.
  #565  
Old 01-09-2020, 10:29 AM
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Interesting points in the Jobson article - sounds like basically H&M told the immediate family "we want out" as they neared the end of their 6-week break in Canada, and the response was "well, come up with a plan as to how this is going to work and we'll talk when you get home." What they have come up with is not, as many here have pointed out, a plan but rather a wishlist. So, they were, again, told "no meetings with Pa or Granny until you can show us how this is going to work, how are all of these issues addressed." And they were specifically told that HM would not discuss the Sussex plans until they had worked out most of the details with the POW. Yesterday's bombshell announcement and website reveal was basically H&M having a very public temper tantrum that they weren't being given their way automatically but instead being asked to really think about all those details and figure out exactly how it would work within the confines of the monarchy and continuing to support HM and their Commonwealth roles. None of what HM or the POW were asking for was unreasonable. What is unreasonable is just how petulantly H&M have handled all of this.

I don't know that I think Meghan is driving all of this. Harry has expressed the desire to just "run away from it all" many times in the past. At best, one could characterize Meghan as enabling all of this, simply by asking Harry "why do we have to do this again?" She's a smart, capable woman who has made her own way in the world for much of her life, and lived quite fearlessly and confidently. She strikes me as the type of person who is a change agent - she refuses to be miserable and takes action to change her circumstances. I can see her influencing Harry to be more proactive rather than reactive.

I do think the tabloid press' mistreatment of Meghan is a factor but it's not the only one. It was pretty clear, last year, when their press team was moved from KP to BP and the rumors about them wanting and being denied their own household on the same level as BP, CH, and KP, that they didn't understand/recognize they were simply a younger version of HM's younger children and their destiny was to be along the lines of the Wessexes. They simply believed their star would always shine as brightly as the Cambridge star, which isn't the way the BRF works.

In that vein, I can believe that the latest portrait of the direct line of succession might very well have been "the final straw" as reported by Wooton in The Sun yesterday. They might very well have felt that this was a very passive-aggressive slap in the face to them, that the rest of the family simply do not understand their star power and that Harry & family will always be extra-special, because he is one of Diana's boys, and how dare BP, CH, and KP disregard this in favor of highlighting the direct line of succession, especially while continuing to rely upon H&M to carry on as "senior royals"? It might seem illogical to those of us observing all this as it plays out but emotions aren't always logical.
  #566  
Old 01-09-2020, 10:33 AM
eya eya is offline
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Madame Tussauds London moved its figures of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex from its Royal Family set to elsewhere in the attraction

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos...94?s=2048x2048


https://media.gettyimages.com/photos...78?s=2048x2048
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  #567  
Old 01-09-2020, 10:33 AM
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SLV SLV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I don’t want to second guess Harry and Meghan’s parenting skills and it is not up to me to do it, but they took their 5-month son on an 11-hour flight and a two-week tour of Southern Africa. That doesn’t seem like something overprotective parents would do. Then they subjected him to another abrupt change of environment on a six-week stay in Canada in the late fall/early winter.
Well, that is easier to do with a baby than with a todler, so 'subjecting' is a bit too dramatic a word to choose. I agree with the rest.
  #568  
Old 01-09-2020, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
Well Robert Jobson who has close ties in Prince Charles' office has is own POV. Interesting read.

According to him Harry tried to hold meetings with HMQ and Charles a few times and was brushed off repeatedly. I have no doubt the "punishment" will happen but clearly Harry is prepared for it.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/p...-a4330341.html
The article did not say or imply that Meghan and Harry were brushed off (actually, the opposite) though clearly and unsurprisingly they interpreted it as such. Prince Charles told them that they needed more time to work this out before making anything official, and the Queen - who wanted to meet with Harry - told Harry that he needed to discuss this with his father first. The Sussex’ outright defiance of the Queen and their disregard for Prince Charles is outrageous...
  #569  
Old 01-09-2020, 10:35 AM
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As I expected there will be a review of the Sussexes' protection now.


https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/m...-a4330231.html


Quote:
A senior source told the Evening Standard: “Royal Protection by armed Metropolitan Police officers is mandated by the Home Office.
“Until now their official roles mean the Duke and Duchess of Sussex and their son are classified as internationally protected people.
"That stays in place for now. But as the circumstances have changed there will now be a full review.
“If the Sussexes intend to live abroad, and not just carry out international official visits abroad, it will involve far more resources.
"This will have to be reviewed and signed off by the Commissioner. There is no guarantee it will be granted.”
  #570  
Old 01-09-2020, 10:35 AM
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In all of this mess, I can't help but have so much respect for Princess Beatrice and Eugenie. They wanted to be a part of the firm, they were shut down by Prince Charles, so they got jobs in both the UK and the US while supporting their charities, their family and the queen. If anyone deserves to have a bigger role after their H&M debacle, it's them. These two have really pulled their weight.
  #571  
Old 01-09-2020, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
Who do you mean by "people"? The Queen, the P o Wales, the court? None of these knew. The statement from Buck. Palace last night showed they were totally taken by surprise without really knowing what to say to the public. No, Harry and the actress just threw their bomb by saying "now deal with it!"

And Princess Madeleine has not been appointed an important role such as Harry was as Youth Ambassador of the Commonwealth, which includes a lot of travelling of course (I´m sure if the Queen knew how things would turn out to be two years ago, she wouldn´t have given him the job!). And Madeleine has not been moving in a tax payer financed millions of pounds renovated house in Sweden....
People who say the Queen, ETC...knew are not reading the articles. Yes, Queen and Prince Charles knew of Harry and Meghan’s desire to live a different lifestyle, but they did NOT know that they were going to take this public at this time. The Sussex’ got tired of waiting and, like a temperamental children, decided to FORCE everyone to deal wit it now. I suspect this is not going to end the way they expect it to.
  #572  
Old 01-09-2020, 10:42 AM
ACO ACO is offline
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Originally Posted by eya View Post
Madame Tussauds London moved its figures of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex from its Royal Family set to elsewhere in the attraction

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos...94?s=2048x2048


https://media.gettyimages.com/photos...78?s=2048x2048
They have done this publicity stunt a few times now. Literally did it a few months ago. But they got what they wanted... us talking about it again.
  #573  
Old 01-09-2020, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by TLLK View Post
As I expected there will be a review of the Sussexes' protection now.


https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/m...-a4330231.html
Again, I go back to my point. They announced their wish list and told everybody they wanted to split their time between the UK and Canada and never bothered to work out proper arrangements first with the Royal Household, the British government and the Canadians ? I agree with Hallo Girl that it appears they had a temper tantrum because things were not moving as quickly as they wanted and decided to drop a bomb to put pressure on the Palace. That is unacceptable.
  #574  
Old 01-09-2020, 10:51 AM
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I don't believe they didn't know about the announcement. I don't see Harry doing anything that would hurt his Grandmother.
I would think they can live both in England and North America and continue to do their royal duties. It does not sound like they are quitting just redefining how and where they will work.
  #575  
Old 01-09-2020, 10:54 AM
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https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51043220
"It's understood talks have begun between Palace officials and No 10 about the implications of Harry and Meghan's announcement."


Apologies if this was already addressed earlier in this lengthy thread, but I am confused about why the Prime Minister's Office would need to be involved. Is it related to the duke's position as a Counsellor of State?
  #576  
Old 01-09-2020, 11:01 AM
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Not surprised about security. ITV had a former RPO on last night and his concern was that they would likely need security more right now and that it was unlikely they wouldn't keep it for now. With time it would certainly change and anything overseas would have to be funded elsewhere, I would guess.
  #577  
Old 01-09-2020, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51041950
"It's understood talks have begun between Palace officials and No 10 about the implications of Harry and Meghan's announcement."


Apologies if this was already addressed earlier in this lengthy thread, but I am confused about why the Prime Minister's Office would need to be involved. Is it related to the duke's position as a Counsellor of State?
It' related to the position of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex as part of the members of the Royal Family, members of the family of the Head of State and public figures performing duties for the Head of State and as such for the British government.
It shows, again if needed, the utter amateurism of their announcement, ans how some temper tantrum is becomig a constitutional crisis.
I say well done, like if No 10 had nothing else to think about ...
  #578  
Old 01-09-2020, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by princess carmen View Post
I don't believe they didn't know about the announcement. I don't see Harry doing anything that would hurt his Grandmother.
I would think they can live both in England and North America and continue to do their royal duties. It does not sound like they are quitting just redefining how and where they will work.
It sounds like he absolutely blindsided her with this announcement. She may have known they wanted something different but obviously nothing had been worked out with anyone official.

I'm sorry, but royal duties cannot be telephoned in or done by telecommuting. If they don't live in the UK, they can't do many official things they were expected to do.
  #579  
Old 01-09-2020, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51043220
"It's understood talks have begun between Palace officials and No 10 about the implications of Harry and Meghan's announcement."


Apologies if this was already addressed earlier in this lengthy thread, but I am confused about why the Prime Minister's Office would need to be involved. Is it related to the duke's position as a Counsellor of State?
I think if they are already talking with No 10, when the Uk has so much more important things to worry about, I think the implications are that the BRF will be making a big change in regards to H&M. I think H&M are going to see more far-reaching consequences then what they put on their website wish-list. I don't think the cutting off your nose to spite your face approach will work out as they hoped.
  #580  
Old 01-09-2020, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Nico View Post
It' related to the position of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex as part of the members of the Royal Family, members of the family of the Head of State and public figures performing duties for the Head of State and as such for the British government.
It shows, again if needed, the utter amateurism of their announcement.


Is Harry not a counselor of state (or whatever the exact title is)? If that’s the case and he’s stepping back then governmental/legal steps may need to be taken to remove him as a counselor (same probably goes for Prince Andrew).
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