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  #521  
Old 01-09-2020, 08:57 AM
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Harry and Meghan's waxwork statues at London's Madame Tussaud's have been removed from the royal family display.

Now that Meghan is 'stepping back', will she be auditioning for the role of 'herself' in a future series of 'The Crown' ?
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  #522  
Old 01-09-2020, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
I think that is a very valid point.

How did H&M get to this point where they are trying to opt more or less out of the BRF pretty much on their terms? (Fat chance of it ending up being the way they want it though!)

Two scenarios are currently being presented by commentators here in DK:

A) Harry is fed up with the stiff, confining and (presumably in his opinion) old-fashioned way the BRF works, also in regards to protections and in the way royals should promote causes in a todays world.
All this pomp and circumstances is tedious to the bone! And wants to break free and get some real work done. Work that makes a difference.
He met and married someone with a fresh view in Meghan. Someone who has the courage to be unorthodox and to stand by her conviction and who would support his struggle to modernize the BRF approach from within and by example. If need be force a modernization to take place.
With that failing or at the very least being met by considerable opposition a logic step is to go solo and perhaps settle most of the time in North America where there are fewer restraints.
- And here we are...

B) Meghan has never really comprehended how the monarchy works and how people in a monarchy perceive royals as being different from celebs, with different roles. She has never really had the time to understand how the system works and no one has been able to make it clear to her.
With that view in mind, she wanted to use her position to put focus on and promote causes that in her opinion are primary. And by being a personal example. - You can't promote a cause by remaining neutral and hiding behind ceremonial and etiquette. You must do something!
And not fully understanding the role of the BRF, which is to represent everybody, also those who disagree with you, one way to go is to lead by example and show how things can be done differently and better.
(Meghan was on top of that supported, or certainly not discouraged, by a doting man who is also willing to go extraordinary lengths to protect his wife.)
And being prevented from doing that to the fullest, the logic course is to break free from the restraints and go solo.
- And here we are...

In both cases we are having IMO two people who are living in their own world and who have build up an imaginary image of their future role, their importance, their impact and how their action will be perceived by others.
It doesn't exactly help that they seemingly have surrounded themselves with a staff and advisors who really don't understand what a monarchy is.

And for whatever incongruous reason, that I personally find baffling, they decided to alienate the press and I dare say the monarchist as well as the general public.
It basically started IMO at birth of their son.
No photo shoot at the hospital. That's something royalists celebrate and look forward to. Big time! And the press earn serious money on such events.
All were turned down and had to content themselves with what was it? A glimpse of a head?

Next big mistake: The christening. Why that limited coverage? Why the secrecy?
Again, this was a snub on the royalists who love this kind of show and the press who earn big money on such a show.

Third mistake: Go on the offensive against the press, who were already annoyed at them, without having a solid base for that attack. And having disappointed a considerable segment of their home base: The British royalists.
Don't declare war on the press unless you are sure to have the public opinion on your side! Or you will lose.

Fourth mistake: Complain about how the press treats them, while having a feud with the press, while getting bad press and not having the public in their backs.
To many, too many, that left an impression of H&M whining. And it turned away focus from what they wanted to promote and instead towards themselves.

And now this fifth mistake: Acting way too prematurely and on their own initiative.

- Because team H&M actually did well.
There was the admittedly very irritating issue about the Meghan family, but that generated more sympathy than annoyance for Meghan.
And of course Meghan got criticism. Just as Kate was criticized for years. Just as harshly.
But that could be overcome by simply keep working and doing as good a job as possible. And it did work! - Meghan smiled to everyone and everybody as required. She was pleasant and said pleasantries at the appropriate moments. And Harry looked suitably happy and adoring. - We only needed fifteen gondoliers in the background singing romantic ballads to complete the picture!
They were both a perfect addition as well as a contrast at the same time to team W&K. - They had a role within the BRF and they could have continued to have had a role IMO.

But now? The gods only know what happens to team H&M now. Only one thing is certain: They are not going to get things their way.
Bit off topic - but what would you have done if you are M&H or the Queen if they had come to you? How would you have resolved this problem or deal with it now? Was there any alternative but to accept their lot?
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  #523  
Old 01-09-2020, 09:00 AM
ACO ACO is offline
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I think based on that article (if even a little bit true) then they don't want to be 'half' anything. I think they did this statement and website to force the family to free them by removing them. It is a bold tactic but it seemed, according to Jobson, no one was taking them seriously.

People seem to think Harry and Meghan will be in for a shock if their titles are stripped or what have you. I think that is actually their end goal.

That said everyone needs to be VERY careful with how it all plays out. I don't think there are really any winners or losers in this sad scenario.
  #524  
Old 01-09-2020, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
Everyone seems to think Harry and Meghan will choose to relocate to Canada, but I thought Harry always craved living in Africa?

Is Africa off the table now?
Yes, they were very specific about splitting their time between the UK and North America.

In the infamous South Africa documentary , I believe Harry mentioned having considered relocating to Cape Town , but having concluded that would have been problematic given all the current problems down there right now or something like that ( I don’t remember the exact words).

I take that to mean Cape Town, which is as good as it gets as far as Africa is concerned, was not good enough for them ( maybe because of violence /security issues, or for the kids, or whatever). I also imagine North America, even if it is Canada rather than the US, would suit Meghan’s needs in many ways ( proximity to her friends and her mother, networking, business opportunities, etc.).
  #525  
Old 01-09-2020, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
That would involved changing the Regency Act to remove four of the first six adults in the line of succession from being CoS.

Currently the first four have that right - Charles, William, Harry and Andrew.

You are proposing removing the 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th adults in the line of succession. It won't happen.

There is no need to replace Harry. He will be eligible if he resides in the UK. If he doesn't he is automatically excluded.
Hypothesising: if Harry renounced or were removed from the succession, Andrew's daughters would move that little bit closer towards counsellor of state eligibility. Ironic, somehow?
  #526  
Old 01-09-2020, 09:07 AM
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We have to agree the timing of this announcement is just plain wrong : the eve of the birthday of the DOC, The Queen is not in London, the POW probably not either, The UK is still struggling with the Brexit issue and one of the most important realm of the Commonwealth, Australia, is fighting catastrophic fires of biblical proptions.
Sorry, i mean SORRY, but whatever angle you want to see it, it's definitively , again, an utterly selfish behaviour from two self centered individuals.
Worse, it's totally counterproductive for them, and also for the Monarchy in general :

https://www.republic.org.uk/what-we-...ghan-statement
  #527  
Old 01-09-2020, 09:09 AM
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IMO Piers makes the key point -

Harry and Meghan acting as global royal superstars without following the rules will be an impossible affront to the Queen, to Charles and to William, removing, [at a stroke] their ability to shape how the monarchy is perceived.

The Firm simply cannot allow this.

They will have to back-down or GO..
  #528  
Old 01-09-2020, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Harry and Meghan's waxwork statues at London's Madame Tussaud's have been removed from the royal family display.

Now that Meghan is 'stepping back', will she be auditioning for the role of 'herself' in a future series of 'The Crown' ?
Things are happening too quickly and yet not quickly enough.
  #529  
Old 01-09-2020, 09:15 AM
kbk kbk is offline
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The first thing I though about when heared the news were the Michaels of Kent! They will assume similar lifestyle on the edge of the RF life and pursue their own business to make a living.


Anyway, as for their titles: Harry is a prince and an HRH not because of any merit, just because he was born a male-line grandchild of a Sovereign. It can be "renounced" by him, formally via the Queen's Royal Warrant, as was the case for Princess Patricia of Connaught. The Ducal title is not so simple (thanks, Iluvbertie, for the correction!) as it is a peerage (but still doable, right? The Sovereign, as the fount of honor, can give and take it away). Anyway, I think there are no obstacles to not just using it anymore!


Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Now that Meghan is 'stepping back', will she be auditioning for the role of 'herself' in a future series of 'The Crown' ?
  #530  
Old 01-09-2020, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbk View Post
The first thing I though about when heared the news were the Michaels of Kent! They will assume similar lifestyle on the edge of the RF life and pursue their own business to make a living.


Anyway, as for their titles: Harry is a prince and an HRH not because of any merit, just because he was born a male-line grandchild of a Sovereign. It can be "renounced" by him, formally via the Queen's Royal Warrant, as was the case for Princess Patricia of Connaught. The Ducal title is not so simple (thanks, Iluvbertie, for the correction!) as it is a peerage (but still doable, right? The Sovereign, as the fount of honor, can give and take it away). Anyway, I think there are no obstacles to not just using it anymore!




No IIRC the parliament would have to strip the title, not just The Queen.


LaRae
  #531  
Old 01-09-2020, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Except the media issue...the media was problematic from day one and it got worse.


LaRae
I don't agree with you.

If you look at them fro the non-English speaking press H&M to this day get a predominantly positive coverage.
Don't know about the US press, but I read about them in the British press and that was generally pretty good.

There was Meghan's family. - Annoying, but not the most serious problem for her personally, on the contrary perhaps.
She was an actress - big deal.
American - whatever.
Divorced - who cares.
Bi racial - that was IMO an American issue not a British issue.
She made the odd mistake - so what.
All that was trivialities IMO.

Compare that to the way Kate was treated:
Golddigger.
Never done a days honest work in her life.
Streaking at every opportunity.
Maniac smile.
Stalking William all through university.
Being uneducated (and as such probably not too bright).
And so on.

When the press, the mainstream press and not just the tabloids, began to become critical for real it was, again IMO, mainly as a reaction to H&M.
Keep in mind that H&M in general got a both fair and fine coverage during their visits abroad.
- It was the admittedly somewhat bizarre fact that the only representative for Meghan's family at her wedding was her mother, that got the eyebrows up.
And the weird handling of the birth and christening of their child that started to annoy also the more serious press. We are talking hours of live coverage with very high viewer ratings out the window here.
And the press has a tendency to gang up, when under attack. So unless H&M were complaining that three photographers were lying on the ground trying to poke their lenses up her skirt at an official event, H&M would meet little sympathy in the press as a whole. - Seriously! It would have had to be that bad.

For heavens sake! Professional opinion makers, like Piers Morgan, are always shrill, that's the only way they are noticed and that's the only way they sell.
I think there was way too much emphasis on the extreme views on H&M. If you want a balanced and more genuine view of royals, always read the local papers when they cover a local royal event.
  #532  
Old 01-09-2020, 09:23 AM
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There is no reason that a senior royal cannot live in Canada. Edward, Duke of Kent, Queen Victoria's father, lived there for a while. So did two of Queen Victoria's children, Prince Arthur and Princess Louise. I'm sure something could have been sorted out, if only they'd discussed it all properly with the Queen and Prince Charles, instead of taking this me-me-me attitude, which they must have known full well would cause considerable distress to Harry's 93-year-old grandmother and 98-year-old grandfather.
  #533  
Old 01-09-2020, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
I don't agree with you.

If you look at them fro the non-English speaking press H&M to this day get a predominantly positive coverage.
Don't know about the US press, but I read about them in the British press and that was generally pretty good.

There was Meghan's family. - Annoying, but not the most serious problem for her personally, on the contrary perhaps.
She was an actress - big deal.
American - whatever.
Divorced - who cares.
Bi racial - that was IMO an American issue not a British issue.
She made the odd mistake - so what.
All that was trivialities IMO.

Compare that to the way Kate was treated:
Golddigger.
Never done a days honest work in her life.
Streaking at every opportunity.
Maniac smile.
Stalking William all through university.
Being uneducated (and as such probably not too bright).
And so on.

When the press, the mainstream press and not just the tabloids, began to become critical for real it was, again IMO, mainly as a reaction to H&M.
Keep in mind that H&M in general got a both fair and fine coverage during their visits abroad.
- It was the admittedly somewhat bizarre fact that the only representative for Meghan's family at her wedding was her mother, that got the eyebrows up.
And the weird handling of the birth and christening of their child that started to annoy also the more serious press. We are talking hours of live coverage with very high viewer ratings out the window here.
And the press has a tendency to gang up, when under attack. So unless H&M were complaining that three photographers were lying on the ground trying to poke their lenses up her skirt at an official event, H&M would meet little sympathy in the press as a whole. - Seriously! It would have had to be that bad.

For heavens sake! Professional opinion makers, like Piers Morgan, are always shrill, that's the only way they are noticed and that's the only way they sell.
I think there was way too much emphasis on the extreme views on H&M. If you want a balanced and more genuine view of royals, always read the local papers when they cover a local royal event.

You either missed A LOT of tabloid press or have forgotten.

References to her being from Compton (gangs etc), her not being 'fair' in complexion, how she was 'exotic' ...from day one and it went on. The woman couldn't eat an avocado without being criticized for it (yes it happened). She couldn't hold her baby right, she couldn't follow 'protocol' (even though she did nothing not already being done by the rest of the women in the family), the list goes on and on. It started when they were dating and increased in tenor.

Go research some of it. There is a lot out there.


LaRae
  #534  
Old 01-09-2020, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbk View Post
I think she's bored and tired with this life. And I don't blame her. But what was she thinking marrying the future King's son?

Maybe it's a matter of saving his marriage for Harry? Meghan clearly is the driving force for this decision. She just doesn't want this life.
Harry is the one who has actually given an interview saying "no one wants the throne" or something similar. My belief is that Meghan, despite being well educated and intelligent, is like many average Americans. She knows nothing of what it takes to be Royal, other than what she has read in People magazine. She was/is not prepared for the scrutiny, the need to adhere to protocol, the lack of freedom to do whatever she wants, dress the way she wants, say what she wants. etc.

But I don't think she is the only one driving this train off the tracks. I think Harry is right there in the co-pilot seat with her.
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  #535  
Old 01-09-2020, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire View Post
Bit off topic - but what would you have done if you are M&H or the Queen if they had come to you? How would you have resolved this problem or deal with it now? Was there any alternative but to accept their lot?
Fortunately I'm not.

Basically there can only be one thing to do: Talk about it. Discuss options and alternatives and approaches. If need be tell them what to do and not to do.
And make sure no one acts on their own initiative.

What else would there be to do?

We are seemingly looking at what happens when you don't.
  #536  
Old 01-09-2020, 09:30 AM
ACO ACO is offline
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
IMO Piers makes the key point -

Harry and Meghan acting as global royal superstars without following the rules will be an impossible affront to the Queen, to Charles and to William, removing, [at a stroke] their ability to shape how the monarchy is perceived.

The Firm simply cannot allow this.

They will have to back-down or GO..
You know... I actually agree. They will have to back down or go. I think their intention is to go. That said and I will be blunt about it -- this has to be done carefully because overall the image is sensitive.

I think some are not really looking at it from the perspective others (likely in many of the commonwealth HMQ represent) are seeing this watching the first woman of mix race leaving the BRF because it would seem the couple felt they had no choice.

Where it is true or not -- we have no idea but that is a POV I am already seeing brought up. We are all seeing it from different angles and a lot from the view of the BRF but this is another and I do think it is sensitive especially in this climate.

The whole thing is a mess and I just hope in the end everyone has some peace.
  #537  
Old 01-09-2020, 09:32 AM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
There is no reason that a senior royal cannot live in Canada. Edward, Duke of Kent, Queen Victoria's father, lived there for a while. So did two of Queen Victoria's children, Prince Arthur and Princess Louise. I'm sure something could have been sorted out, if only they'd discussed it all properly with the Queen and Prince Charles, instead of taking this me-me-me attitude, which they must have known full well would cause considerable distress to Harry's 93-year-old grandmother and 98-year-old grandfather.
When Edward, Duke of Kent, lived in Canada, Canada didn’t even exist as a country . It was a bunch of colonies in British North America.

And Prince Arthur, Duke of Connaught, was the Governor General ( I.e. Viceroy) of Canada, wasn’t he ? Completely different times then.

As I said, Harry and Meghan living as private citizens in Canada is totally doable provided they sort out immigration issues, which should not be too difficult. But Harry and Meghan having any kind of public role or being in Canada in any official position is something that, nowadays, needs to be sorted out and discussed with the British government and the Canadian government, not least because it involves issues like security , etc.

Again, Harry and Meghan just said “ that is what we want and how things will be” , but did not bother to work out arrangements with anybody , not only the Queen and the Prince of Wales, but also the British Foreign Office or the Canadians. That is not how things are done in the real world.
  #538  
Old 01-09-2020, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Harry is the one who has actually given an interview saying "no one wants the throne" or something similar. My belief is that Meghan, despite being well educated and intelligent, is like many average Americans. She knows nothing of what it takes to be Royal, other than what she has read in People magazine. She was/is not prepared for the scrutiny, the need to adhere to protocol, the lack of freedom to do whatever she wants, dress the way she wants, say what she wants. etc.

But I don't think she is the only one driving this train off the tracks. I think Harry is right there in the co-pilot seat with her.

Based on his previous sentiments I think Harry is leading the 'charge'. It's interesting to see self proclaimed feminists blame it all on Meghan.


LaRae
  #539  
Old 01-09-2020, 09:36 AM
Muhler's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
You either missed A LOT of tabloid press or have forgotten.

References to her being from Compton (gangs etc), her not being 'fair' in complexion, how she was 'exotic' ...from day one and it went on. The woman couldn't eat an avocado without being criticized for it (yes it happened). She couldn't hold her baby right, she couldn't follow 'protocol' (even though she did nothing not already being done by the rest of the women in the family), the list goes on and on. It started when they were dating and increased in tenor.

Go research some of it. There is a lot out there.


LaRae
I believe I did mention that. And dismissed it as silly - as I believe most people who read anything but the tabloids does.
Such ludicrous examples can be found about almost every royal in existence.

I'm talking of the press coverage as a whole. And I don't recall the BBC or the Times mentioning avocados.
  #540  
Old 01-09-2020, 09:38 AM
ACO ACO is offline
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Based on his previous sentiments I think Harry is leading the 'charge'. It's interesting to see self proclaimed feminists blame it all on Meghan.


LaRae
Well that is hardly surprising. I think a lot in people in the coming days, weeks, and months will blame everything on Meghan. Harry is a grown man. He was said to have wanted out long before Meghan was even in his life but of course it is always the woman.

Though I did have a chuckle at one man trying to put 100% blame on Meghan and then when asked to give an example of how she is a manipulative woman the man just fumbled all over himself.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presente...-give-example/
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