The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[CyrilVladisla]

Originally Posted by Pranter

Dr. Jane Goodall spoke to BBCRadio4 today and touched on the Sussexes’ news:

“Well it doesn’t surprise me, having met them both. I know that Prince Harry really felt constrained and he desperately wants little Archie to grow up away from all the pomp and royalty, I know that.”

Why should Archie have to grow up away from all the pomp and royalty? Archie is the grandson of the future King Charles III of Great Britain.

[ladongas]

I’m surprised that Harry’s large group of longtime friends (and their spouses/partners) didn’t make more of an effort to befriend Meghan. Of course, I don’t know that for sure. I thought they were happy during the months they were staying in the Cotswolds, and that they were socializing with his friends then. But suddenly they were living in rather isolated fashion at Frogmore...

[Erin9]

Originally Posted by BaiSoSo

Really? There wasn't any reference to Meghan in that statement so how could it be offering support to her? But it does highlight the continued double standards between other royals and Meghan. Meghan was berated for even suggesting that she wasn't getting support as a new mom. Catherine says something years later and is getting prasied for it.

I guess it depends on how you read it. It’s not the same to me.

To me, the two situations are very different. Kate’s talking about an issue she’s dealt with. It didn’t come across as a bid for sympathy and complaining. It was directly related to the work she was doing that day- very specifically. She was talking about how a place like this would have been nice for her and why. She was connecting with other people there.

The tone and contexts aren’t even remotely similar to me.

[Alison H]

Kate was making a point about how she empathises with many other women who find it difficult to cope with a new baby, in the context of visiting a support centre for new mothers who are in precisely that situation. A lot of women do feel guilty about admitting that they find it hard to cope, because they think they'll be seen as bad mothers. She wasn't asking for sympathy, especially as she was talking about something from six years ago. Harry and William have done similar things by saying that it's OK to speak out about mental health issues: there's a big problem in the UK with men in their 20s and 30s not speaking out.

[Pranter]

Originally Posted by ladongas

I’m surprised that Harry’s large group of longtime friends (and their spouses/partners) didn’t make more of an effort to befriend Meghan. Of course, I don’t know that for sure. I thought they were happy during the months they were staying in the Cotswolds, and that they were socializing with his friends then. But suddenly they were living in rather isolated fashion at Frogmore...

They were driven out of the Cotswolds by media sending drones to take pics thru the windows of their home. A shame they couldn't stay there longer..it might of helped if they could of.


LaRae

[ACO]

Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla

Why should Archie have to grow up away from all the pomp and royalty? Archie is the grandson of the future King Charles III of Great Britain.

Well Archie and his parents aren't seen as royals anymore in the bigger picture. So the decision was made for him. And really it’s probably for the best.

[Pranter]

Originally Posted by ACO

It is interesting that Kate can say she felt isolated and she is praised but Meghan says the same and she is berated. The same with Charles being seen with Greta yesterday was great but Meghan featuring her in Vogue was criticized. This is just another example of the many, many double standards she faced.

But it I agree it is interesting having someone like Kate admit that in the wake of Meghan wanted it. Maybe a nice reminder to folk it is not as simple as people want to make it. We have zero idea what any of them go through. Some have to grin and bear it more than others.

But a change of topic -- It will be interesting to see the coverage of Invictus Games this year. It would been months afterwards and I am sure despite his feelings of the media that he will invite them all. It will likely be the first time we see them in that capacity in a while. Wonder how it will all go down.

Most ppl miss it or they have just forgotten that a few months ago how the other side of things went. It's just more of the same double standard that has gone on since they got married, if not before.

Omid's latest podcast had Laniey (I'm not that familiar with her) on to discuss possibilities of what comes next ...there were some rather interesting insights they brought up on options of a way forward among other things. Nothing however was said about IG.

I for one hope they regroup get things set up and blow everyone's doors off.


LaRae

[poppy7]

Originally Posted by ladongas

I’m surprised that Harry’s large group of longtime friends (and their spouses/partners) didn’t make more of an effort to befriend Meghan. Of course, I don’t know that for sure. I thought they were happy during the months they were staying in the Cotswolds, and that they were socializing with his friends then. But suddenly they were living in rather isolated fashion at Frogmore...

I think a lot of Harry's closet friends had moved on with their lives. A few are in America..I don't k ow who they were hanging out with in the Cotswolds But if it was near the Soho farmhouse. Where I think they liked to hang out, it would have been with the van cutsems et al. Given Rose Astor's faux pad on social media I think that nicity to Meghan is over. If it ever existed.

[Pranter]

Originally Posted by poppy7

I think a lot of Harry's closet friends had moved on with their lives. A few are in America..I don't k ow who they were hanging out with in the Cotswolds But if it was near the Soho farmhouse. Where I think they liked to hang out, it would have been with the van cutsems et al. Given Rose Astor's faux pad on social media I think that nicity to Meghan is over. If it ever existed.

Rose tweeted again within 24 hours I think ...and called the DM a not very nice name so not too sure that you can take one tweet and use it to base that they don't like or support Meghan.


LaRae

[Betsypaige]

Originally Posted by ACO

It is interesting that Kate can say she felt isolated and she is praised but Meghan says the same and she is berated. The same with Charles being seen with Greta yesterday was great but Meghan featuring her in Vogue was criticized. This is just another example of the many, many double standards she faced.

But it I agree it is interesting having someone like Kate admit that in the wake of Meghan wanted it. Maybe a nice reminder to folk it is not as simple as people want to make it. We have zero idea what any of them go through. Some have to grin and bear it more than others.

But a change of topic -- It will be interesting to see the coverage of Invictus Games this year. It would been months afterwards and I am sure despite his feelings of the media that he will invite them all. It will likely be the first time we see them in that capacity in a while. Wonder how it will all go down.

I didn't hear Kate say it, but there's a difference between saying she was in Wales and feeling isolated - because she was physically away from everyone - and Meghan, giving an interview in Africa (where people struggle just to barely survive) complaining that she wasn't given enough support.

None of us are wrong and none of us are right- we just interpret things differently.

[Denville]

Kate spoke about something in her past, to help new mothers realise that it is not unsual to feel isolated when at home with a new baby..

[_Heather_]

Originally Posted by Fem

I think you're missing some important context here, tbh, because these two situations don't have much in common, if they do at all.

Anglesey is a bit... remote. As in far from everything, including their families. Catherine said she was alone, William was working during the night, their house was out of the way too. And all she said was that she would love to have a community of mothers to meet and talk to - she never, not even once, suggested she didn't have enough support, just that it's sometimes lonely when you sit alone with your newborn at home. Not to mention, she did so while visiting a place where new moms can meet and spend time with, so it was a bit, how can I say it, on the subject of the whole visit. What she said might have been shared and understood between the mothers she was meeting with, because it's a very universal experience for a parent.

Meghan though - a bit different story? She, with tears in her eyes, told a journalist, a member of the very press that poisoned her life apparently, her sad story, how no one asked if she was okay as a new mom/wife/royal. And she did so in Africa, basically making sure the whole coverage of the tour instead of focusing on the charities they visited, of the real, horrific problems of the people who live there, was about her and her sad story. I doubt a mother who doesn't know if she will have food for her newborn tomorrow or a father who doesn't know if his teenage daughter will come back home from school safe would understood Meghan's struggles. (EDIT: Which, I want to say, doesn't make Meghan's struggles somehow not valid - just a case of wrong place, wrong time.)

You know what, I actually never thought of it like this, but now I feel like we do need to praise Catherine for what she said.

Exactly this. There's a massive difference in the two situations. Catherine came across as focused and on point for the engagement she was attending and still managed to come across as very real, very human, very normal. She was able to connect with those she was there to connect with because she was down to earth and appeared to be "just like one of them." Meghan, on the other hand, came across as spoiled, entitled, and whiny. She was in Africa to highlight the plight of those far less fortunate and instead managed to turn it into her personal sob story and came across as very out of touch and "all about me." There's really nothing to compare here about these two statements. One appeared to be a bid to connect with other mothers, one appeared to be a cry for attention and sympathy.

[poppy7]

Originally Posted by Pranter

Rose tweeted again within 24 hours I think ...and called the DM a not very nice name so not too sure that you can take one tweet and use it to base that they don't like or support Meghan.


LaRae

Really? She isn't using her Twitter. Was it on Instagram? But surely any family friend would see what the DM.et so put all.ofnthem true is beyond belief? In any case Rose's husband is closet to William.

[_Heather_]

Originally Posted by poppy7

Really? She isn't using her Twitter. Was it on Instagram? But surely any family friend would see what the DM.et so put all.ofnthem true is beyond belief? In any case Rose's husband is closet to William.

She did put up a second post on IG that called the DM all sorts of names. However, it did have a tone that seemed very much like she was embarrassed and irritated that her first post was made so public by them. It didn't really appear to be a "yeah, maybe that wasn't my smartest decision ever" post but a "how dare you call attention to my public post" type thing. More of a "not sorry she did it but very sorry she did got caught" kind of thing. And I did see the first post, she can spin it however she wants but but the wording of it was quite clearly a spin on Harry and Meghan's announcement. Anyone who thinks it wasn't is delusional. Now, did she really mean anything by it other than using something that was big news at the time to post a "funny little something?" I don't know and neither does anyone else. But her attack on the DM definitely came across as a "how dare you publicize my public post" kind of thing. I definitely get the impression that there's not really much love lost there and it did all appear to rather be a bit of an eye-rolling type post directed at Harry and Meghan and the drama.

[poppy7]

Originally Posted by _Heather_

She did put up a second post on IG that called the DM all sorts of names. However, it did have a tone that seemed very much like she was embarrassed and irritated that her first post was made so public by them. It didn't really appear to be a "yeah, maybe that wasn't my smartest decision ever" post but a "how dare you call attention to my public post" type thing. More of a "not sorry she did it but very sorry she did got caught" kind of thing. And I did see the first post, she can spin it however she wants but but the wording of it was quite clearly a spin on Harry and Meghan's announcement. Anyone who thinks it wasn't is delusional. Now, did she really mean anything by it other than using something that was big news at the time to post a "funny little something?" I don't know and neither does anyone else. But her attack on the DM definitely came across as a "how dare you publicize my public post" kind of thing. I definitely get the impression that there's not really much love lost there and it did all appear to rather be a bit of an eye-rolling type post directed at Harry and Meghan and the drama.

I think really Harry and Meghan may have found themselves extremely isolated in many ways. Something just wasn't right. On paper yoga loving Rose Astor is right up Meghan's street but it seems the two of them either isolated or were isolated by a lot of the circle that have surrounded Harry. Not just family. I just don't know what on earth went down. At all. But they have an us against the world mentality and that will be extremely isolating as time goes on. Because honestly everyone will move on and I fear the only ones who really won't will be them because they will always be the used to be royals.

[HereditaryPrincess]

Originally Posted by poppy7

I think really Harry and Meghan may have found themselves extremely isolated in many ways. Something just wasn't right. On paper yoga loving Rose Astor is right up Meghan's street but it seems the two of them either isolated or were isolated by a lot of the circle that have surrounded Harry. Not just family. I just don't know what on earth went down. At all. But they have an us against the world mentality and that will be extremely isolating as time goes on. Because honestly everyone will move on and I fear the only ones who really won't will be them because they will always be the used to be royals.

I agree and this is where I have a divided opinion on this whole debacle because whilst I sympathise with Harry and Meghan's move, they do seem to be isolated a lot from the family. I don't want to put the blame on Meghan since we don't know what goes on behind closed doors, but before - even during the early months of their marriage - Harry seemed to be very close to the family and was viewed as the "fun uncle" to George and Charlotte (since Louis wasn't born at the time), and had also been spotted playing with the Phillips children IIRC. He often seems down and aloof nowadays and a little bit lost - I can imagine the stress of the media circling around their marriage has a lot to play in that.

[_Heather_]

Originally Posted by poppy7

I think really Harry and Meghan may have found themselves extremely isolated in many ways. Something just wasn't right. On paper yoga loving Rose Astor is right up Meghan's street but it seems the two of them either isolated or were isolated by a lot of the circle that have surrounded Harry. Not just family. I just don't know what on earth went down. At all. But they have an us against the world mentality and that will be extremely isolating as time goes on. Because honestly everyone will move on and I fear the only ones who really won't will be them because they will always be the used to be royals.

I really agree with this 100%. And everyone can scream all they like about tabloid stories with anonymous sources and it's true that they're very often wrong but sometimes, just sometimes, they're right. Or they're mostly right a few incorrect details. Back to that old smoke and fire thing. But, the isolation stories and the whole Rose Astor thing and the fact that some of his oldest friends were invited to the wedding but not to the much more intimate evening party all adds up to being easy to believe those stories about Meghan deciding his old friends were "bad influences" and Harry dropping them after some of them dared to suggest he slow down a bit, etc. You're absolutely right about the whole "us against the world" mentality becoming dangerously isolating. I do wonder if, in time, Harry might wish he hadn't been so quick to cut off his old (and by all accounts very discreet and loyal) friends or allow them to be cut off.

[Fem]

Originally Posted by _Heather_

Exactly this. There's a massive difference in the two situations. Catherine came across as focused and on point for the engagement she was attending and still managed to come across as very real, very human, very normal. She was able to connect with those she was there to connect with because she was down to earth and appeared to be "just like one of them." Meghan, on the other hand, came across as spoiled, entitled, and whiny. She was in Africa to highlight the plight of those far less fortunate and instead managed to turn it into her personal sob story and came across as very out of touch and "all about me." There's really nothing to compare here about these two statements. One appeared to be a bid to connect with other mothers, one appeared to be a cry for attention and sympathy.

And then people will describe this as a "double standard" and use as an example of how much worse Meghan is treated... I honestly don't get people sometimes.
I think that interview was a low blow - not only do I belive things like that should be dealt with behind closed doors and not in media, but also it turned what would be a great, successful and very informative tour into an "all about Meghan" situation. I don't know why she did it, or why she felt it was a right choice, but it was very tone-deaf after seeing the situation in Africa, after hearing stories of these people and their hardships.

[_Heather_]

Originally Posted by Fem

And then people will describe this as a "double standard" and use as an example of how much worse Meghan is treated... I honestly don't get people sometimes.
I think that interview was a low blow - not only do I belive things like that should be dealt with behind closed doors and not in media, but also it turned what would be a great, successful and very informative tour into an "all about Meghan" situation. I don't know why she did it, or why she felt it was a right choice, but it was very tone-deaf after seeing the situation in Africa, after hearing stories of these people and their hardships.

I completely agree. But then again, tone-deafness seems to be a recurring theme with these two. They very much seem either incapable or unwilling or maybe an awful combination of the two, to read the situational appropriateness of much of what they say and do. And their complete lack of self-awareness about how they come across to others when they fail or decline to read the mood really boggles the mind.

[ACO]

Originally Posted by Betsypaige

I didn't hear Kate say it, but there's a difference between saying she was in Wales and feeling isolated - because she was physically away from everyone - and Meghan, giving an interview in Africa (where people struggle just to barely survive) complaining that she wasn't given enough support.

None of us are wrong and none of us are right- we just interpret things differently.

And Greta? Sorry. I don't see much difference but agree we all interpret things differently.