The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[miss whirley]

Originally Posted by bekalc

I think they could use the help though. Besides is Meghan and Harry truly that much of a whirlwind romance they were together for at least a year and half.

It doesn’t compare to Diana that was ridiculous.

The only issue was it was long distance and she I don’t think got a good understanding of his life.

I consider a year and a half too short, especially since she moved to the UK the same month she got engaged. How much time did she really see Harry before that? A couple weekends a month, a couple weeks in the summer/winter here and there..that year and half becomes more like 3-4 months of total time together.

As for needing the help, at what cost? Both Sophie and the Duchess of Gloucester do lovely work but they are largely unnoticed in the UK, most people don't know they exist. So the low-key work of Sophie and DoG isn't worth the epic messes that are Fergie and Meghan. Imagine if the late Earl Snowdon and Mark phillips had represented the firm their scandals would have been exponentially magnified. It was very lucky for the firm that they were private citizens. The way I see it having married-ins of younger sibs in the firm is High Risk, Low Reward. And that isn't good business sense.

[Queen Claude]

Most of the things being suggested were already in place as unwritten rules or something similar, however Harry and Meghan were two headstrong thirty-somethings who were determined to get married, start a family and conduct themselves as mavericks (which there is nothing wrong with in and of itself).

Technically the Queen could have not approved the marriage, but we (the public) have just witnessed the kind of drama Harry is capable of when he wants something and is not promptly accommodated.

[AnnEliza]

Originally Posted by Duchess of Wakanda

I’m happy for them. This is clearly what they wanted, and I’m happy they’ll be free from the press strain.

I doubt very much that they'll be free from the press. They are famous, and she was famous before she married Harry. The press will likely always be part of their lives, HRH or not.

[ashelen]

Originally Posted by QueenMathilde

I don't think they'll ever take Archie back to the UK. It occurs to me that Meghan knows about the rule that says the Queen gets to have say over what happens to her grandchildren so that's the last the Queen or Charles will see Archie.


I don't know that Meghan will ever go back either. I think that Harry will if these occasions come up.


We'll see what they do.

I doubt at the age of the Queen she will want to take Archie , she knows that would hurt Harry the most and I do not think it would be in her nature. But I think it can change when he has to start school, that would be a different mater

[Excalibur]

Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile

And Dan Wooten denied the rumors of where he got the story.

https://twitter.com/danwootton/statu...984832?lang=en

He has also said that his source was not from any of the palaces. So not Buckingham Palace, not Kensington Palace, and not, presumably, Clarence House.

My bet is on Harry and/or Meghan being the leak. Things were not moving at the pace they wanted them to, so they decided to force HM's hand. JMO.

[ashelen]

Originally Posted by Alison H

A lot of people emigrate, for one reason or another, and raise their children in another country. With people leaving the UK, it's usually for another English-speaking country, so Australia, New Zealand, the US or Canada, none of which allow for regular visits if you're an ordinary person with limited funds and only a few weeks' annual leave from work every year. But that doesn't mean that the children can't have a relationship with their grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc, especially in these days of Skype and Facetime. Even in Queen Victoria's day, they used to be writing letters all the time. It's up to Harry and Meghan. They can put Archie on Facetime to Prince Charles every day, if they want. I somehow doubt that they will, but the distance itself doesn't have to mean that Archie won't have a relationship with the Royal Family, or indeed with the Spencers.

As you said there are a lot of people immigrating to other countries. My grandparents did with his kids, but in those days just was letters and my father never had a relationship with his grandparents, they did never see them again not my grandparents saw their parents again., it was another era! Today we have skype and facetime and they have the power of money to take a plane and be next day and see granny. I left myself too to another country with another language and it wasn't easy , Once I told my brother it depends of you and me that our kids get closer , kids are kids and do not understand. We didn't got alone with some cousins but it was because our mother didn't got alone with her sister and I made a point of that . So now his kids and my daughter have a great relation but because we did the effort I only wish I would get the money to bring my mother to my daughter graduation in May, but she is old and only could fly first class with a doctor and or private jet in her condition she is 94 and not doing well but it would be great. So let's see what Meghan would do, it is up to her and harry how close to the family they grow up. And also the other part of the family who is in the UK have to do an effort too. Meghan for what ever reason had only her mother in her wedding and that tells a lot about her because I can understand her step family she did not want them but it was no uncle nor aunt, no cousin from any side of her family, It was nobody good enough to be there ? Didn't she get alone with anybody? Some times you do not get alone with people but if you do not get alone with anybody you are the problem not the others...….. this is my thought tonight

Originally Posted by BaiSoSo

Why do you think Harry is stupid? Of course, he knows money doesn't grow on trees. He had a 'regular' job in the military and that is actually where he thrived. He has also shown he isn't afraid of work putting a lot of effort and energy into whole scale projects.


Was it really 'a bull in a China shop' the Queen even admitted that talks had been ongoing for months (not days or weeks)? However, Harry stopped playing their games when the palace leaked the plans and then Harry was blocked seeing the Queen (per royal reporters). He took his story, his life, his family's life into his own hands....as they were just dragging him along.

This I can not understand, how he was blocked from seeing his grandmother, I am sure he has her cellphone number, come on, wouldn't he call her and sy I need to see you, ????? I dont get it

[MARG]

To me, it seems that Harry and Meghan not only did not get any of the changes they wanted. Instead, it looks like they got kicked out of the Kingdom! There are reports of moving vans at Frogmore Cottage and H&M official wedding memorabilia has been removed from sale at royal outlets.

So, not just the Kingdom but the Family as well. It is not a good look for the BRF as the Net releases stories of Harry "not being well" and "controlled by Meghan and Doria". Ugh, it all leaves me with a very nasty taste in my mouth.

[stunking]

Henry Duke of Sussex and Megan Duchess of Sussex already calling foul on the paps in Canada for photo of M and Archie in public park, she was with her reg. security and a Mountie. Threats to paps and Canada laws of privacy. I wish them well, maybe didn't think thru.

[Helen.CH]

Originally Posted by Eskimo

Slightly off topic but important nonetheless...

I think it is time that the BRF decide to do something about this spare going wild syndrome that they have been plagued with for the last three generations. I think with Margaret and to some extent Andrew, the BRF were under the impression that the shenanigans would be tolerated because of the deference that the public had for the RF. However, by the time Harry was born, the deference was largely gone, Margaret had been causing problems for decades and the family did nothing to prepare for a more meaningful life for Harry (and give meaning to Andy's life when he was no longer the spare).

Some of this can be attributed to EII's willingness to go to any lengths to avoid confrontation. She has been a good Monarch but has been a very weak and ineffectual head of the family.

William and Charles need to start planning on a meaningful life for Charlotte and Louis once George starts having kids of his own and they are no longer the "spares". Obviously, Harry's example is a cautionary tale of how not to do things. But he is right about one thing--the "spares" lives need to have some sort of meaning once they are no longer needed in the "spare" role.

Thanks! I posted this several times, but maybe some do not want HM being criticised or realise changes are needed, which I think too it obviously needed.
So this is actually THE topic or should be for the RF to avoid ongoing trouble ,
but I think W&K show that they really make up their minds about raising their children, maybe the first couple in the RF ever who seems to take this serious enough and so there is hope that the future of their children will be brighter!

Originally Posted by Betsypaige

I can’t read the article now; I was able to read it at the time it was published, but not now, so I don’t know what it said except I don’t believe a word out of Mouthpiece Bradby’s mouth.

As for Prince Laurent - who I’ve never heard of before now, I think his comments were incredibly rude, commenting on the BRF as a family (as if he knows everyone’s personal relationships) and as part of the monarchy as well. It’s presumptuous of him to say that Harry and Meghan are treated as possessions. Ugh.

What was rude he said? I think he knows a lot more than any of us how the situation can be, as he was in a similar position.
And Royals being treated as posessions?, just look at most of the posts here when the issue with the Sussex' came up 3 weeks ago. The opinion" do your job the way we expect it, or your out" can easily be seen as if the persons did not really mater and somehow belong to the public, this is what Laurent referred to.
And he is wellknown in Europe.

[Kataryn]

Originally Posted by wyevale

I cannot see 'Meghan Duchess of Sussex' returning to the UK.. she's made her opinion of this country, [and the family she married into] CRYSTAL CLEAR..and is likely to be received accordingly.

I must say I havn't heard a word from her about the RF - just the quoting of "sources" which I don't believe considering the agenda the tabloids have with seperating Meghan from Harry's family. Who knows, maybe it was Harry who found a free spirit he could ask to leave the RF with him? And Meghan, having been treated by the media so badly, said yes for the sake of their little boy? Who knows??? It could be that Charles, Camilla and Kate are phoning Meghan every night to get Harry and William back together. Who knows???

[Alison H]

It's only Prince Harry who's whingeing.


Incidentally, the very lovely and chocolate-filled :-) state of Belgium has only been an independent country since 1830. The monarchy dates from 1831. The equally lovely state of the Netherlands has only existed as such since declaring independence from Spain in the 1580s.


I have great respect for Crown Princess Victoria and Prince Daniel - she's struggled with anorexia, and they got hassle from the press when they got together, but they've worked through it all. The press also had plenty to say about Mette-Marit already having a child, Letizia being divorced, and Maxima's father's questionable activities, just as the press had plenty to say about Kate, Sophie, and many others, and yet Harry and Meghan are taking the attitude that it's somehow a million times worse for them than it is for everyone else. That's what annoys me. Everyone else deals with it.

[Helen.CH]

Originally Posted by Betsypaige

They did speak to them, talks were ongoing for awhile. Harry and Meghan just got tired of the process and, defying the Queen and his father, went public on their own.

We do not know if there were talks between the RF and Sussex's.
The sentence" after months iv reflection...." could mean the couple themselves have been talking, but we do not know when other members like HM were informed.

[Fem]

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

Whirlwind is relative when discussing age and stage in life.

If at twenty two fresh out of university William had decided to marry Kate after less then two years of dating, may be concerning. Young, still figuring out life, not really fault experiences. First serious relationship ever. At their age, a long courtship makes sense. As it did for the cousins.

Harry abd Meghan were adults. They had years of adult experience. Harv both had long term relationships which showed them both what they wanted and what they didn't want in a partner.

These aren't a couple who ran off and eloped after weeks or months blindly. They were in love and both at a stage where ready for marriage and kids.

It's ridiculous to suggest a time requirement be put on dating before marriage. No couple is the same.

Just because you date for a long time doesn't heir you any more stable. You get to a point where it's seen as the natural next step. Some people like the Cambridges marry, some like Beatrice and Dave break up.

You know what, I agree with you that a year and a half, well, almost two year relationship at a certain age may be enough for some people. People, who lead normal lives - and this is BRF we're talking about.

So with Meghan and Harry (and they admitted it themselves!) the relationship has more layers. Not only were they together only for a year and a half before engagement - and while short, not non-acceptable - but Meghan lived in London for a month or two at that point? Their whole relationship up to that point was long distance. Giving her a year or two to half-live in the royal fishbowl, to observe how things are done, what are the unspoken rules, to learn what it means to be a spouse of a member of BRF really wouldn't be the end of the world and they still could have children after that. But also, it would give Meghan the time and space to learn about the country, about the people, to find her footing, maybe find new friends, while still being able to come and go as she pleased. She herself said she expected the press to be fair - maybe if she had more time she'd notice that it wasn't possible -for anyone.

I honestly think putting a set time requirement wouldn't be the stupidest idea, especially when the other person is not living in the UK. I mean, wasn't in done in Frederik and Mary's case? She moved, stayed there for two years and then they could marry. I know it's a bit different, because Prince Frederik is the heir, so the expectations are different, but a year in the UK before the engagement wouldn't hurt Meghan. Because while she may have been ready for the marriage part (which, I have my doubts, but let's say that), she clearly wasn't ready for the job part.

Originally Posted by Queen Claude

Most of the things being suggested were already in place as unwritten rules or something similar, however Harry and Meghan were two headstrong thirty-somethings who were determined to get married, start a family and conduct themselves as mavericks (which there is nothing wrong with in and of itself).

Technically the Queen could have not approved the marriage, but we (the public) have just witnessed the kind of drama Harry is capable of when he wants something and is not promptly accommodated.

That's painful, but true I already saw some speculation within the fandom, that the rumours were true and William did advise him to give it some more time before the wedding. Honestly, it wouldn't really surprise me at all if it were true. And if the William and Harry conflict really started after that, well, it would be consistent with this situation too.

[Roderick]

Originally Posted by ashelen

This I can not understand, how he was blocked from seeing his grandmother, I am sure he has her cellphone number, come on, wouldn't he call her and sy I need to see you, ????? I dont get it

Both William and Harry have expressed that they are, even as adults, in some awe of their grandmother and there's no way they'd be able to pick up a cell phone and simply call her - that's not the way the system or the Queen works.

[Alison H]

There used to be a rumour that the Queen didn't want any of her descendants to marry until they'd been with their partner for at least 5 years, after what happened with Charles and Diana. Times have certainly changed - William and Kate living together before marriage would have been unthinkable a generation earlier. I would think she did have concerns about how quickly things moved between Harry and Meghan, but how much could she have done about it? If she'd refused permission, they'd have got married anyway, and it would have been awkward and embarrassing and caused bad feeling.

We've probably all had times when we've felt that a friend or relative was rushing into things, but there's not much you can do about it. Commenting on someone else's relationship or choice of partner is a sure-fire way to cause offence, however well you might mean it!

[Hallo girl]

Originally Posted by miss whirley

If they change anything in the future it will be insisting for a longer courtship time. The whirlwind romances have always spelt bad news for the BRF. Even with time sensitive brides they could suggest freezing eggs, so that things aren't rushed just for the sake of getting pregnant.

Another thing I could see happening as only the spouses of direct heirs will work for the Firm. While the other married-ins would be private citizens. So no more Sophies, Feriges, and Meghans in the firm. They would all be like Tim, a few times a year supporting their spouse and the BRF but other than that they are out of the spotlight. I think that would be good for the children too. There would of been less expectation of seeing Archie and knowing his godparents if Meghan had stayed a private citizen and Archie only had one royal parent.

That is quite an interesting thought, you are right you do not see Tim laurence all that much but he does have a full quota if you look at his roles and interests.

[Claire]

The problem is in the royal family - you can never be see if it is coming from a loving family member looking out for your best and meaning well - or if it is an instruction from a higher rank royal or officer.

[Betsypaige]

Originally Posted by Fem

You know what, I agree with you that a year and a half, well, almost two year relationship at a certain age may be enough for some people. People, who lead normal lives - and this is BRF we're talking about.

So with Meghan and Harry (and they admitted it themselves!) the relationship has more layers. Not only were they together only for a year and a half before engagement - and while short, not non-acceptable - but Meghan lived in London for a month or two at that point? Their whole relationship up to that point was long distance. Giving her a year or two to half-live in the royal fishbowl, to observe how things are done, what are the unspoken rules, to learn what it means to be a spouse of a member of BRF really wouldn't be the end of the world and they still could have children after that. But also, it would give Meghan the time and space to learn about the country, about the people, to find her footing, maybe find new friends, while still being able to come and go as she pleased. She herself said she expected the press to be fair - maybe if she had more time she'd notice that it wasn't possible -for anyone.

I honestly think putting a set time requirement wouldn't be the stupidest idea, especially when the other person is not living in the UK. I mean, wasn't in done in Frederik and Mary's case? She moved, stayed there for two years and then they could marry. I know it's a bit different, because Prince Frederik is the heir, so the expectations are different, but a year in the UK before the engagement wouldn't hurt Meghan. Because while she may have been ready for the marriage part (which, I have my doubts, but let's say that), she clearly wasn't ready for the job part.


That's painful, but true I already saw some speculation within the fandom, that the rumours were true and William did advise him to give it some more time before the wedding. Honestly, it wouldn't really surprise me at all if it were true. And if the William and Harry conflict really started after that, well, it would be consistent with this situation too.

I agree with all of this - though making it hard and fast rule isn’t ideal as all situations are different. Most of the time this newcomer won’t be from America or some other country. and also, where do you start the timeline? From when they are dating? The engagement ? I guess engagement, right? Because the newcomer wouldn’t be exposed to the BRF and life inside the fishbowl before then?

Reports have been floating around for a long time that William simply expressed concern that Harry was moving too fast, and Harry questioned why he couldn’t support him like he’d supported W and K. Like Meghan, he seems to have essentially cut his brother off for this. It’s a completely different situation with Meghan then Kate, not just because M and H hadn’t been together that long, but because she was a strong-willed, career-oriented American woman with little to no conception of what life in the BRF would be like.

[QueenMathilde]

We all knew it had to happen - Caitlyn Jenner has reached out to them. She wants to work closely with them.


I'm sure the other Kardashians will too. Will they go from being called "the Kardashians of the royal family" in the tabloid media to working with an actual Kardashian?

[Queen Claude]

Originally Posted by ashelen

This I can not understand, how he was blocked from seeing his grandmother, I am sure he has her cellphone number, come on, wouldn't he call her and sy I need to see you, ????? I dont get it

My understanding is that initially Charles was the person Harry was to deal with. Somewhere along the way he decided he wanted to meet with his grandmother and did indeed get her agreement to a one-on-one meeting, but when palace courtiers got wind of the meeting they intervened and, presumably with the Queen's agreement, the one-on-one meeting with the Queen got cancelled and Harry was told to keep dealing with Charles as originally agreed.

Originally Posted by Fem

That's painful, but true I already saw some speculation within the fandom, that the rumours were true and William did advise him to give it some more time before the wedding. Honestly, it wouldn't really surprise me at all if it were true. And if the William and Harry conflict really started after that, well, it would be consistent with this situation too.

Yep I did not include that in my previous comment but reportedly the rift with William started with William questioning the pace of Harry and Meghan's relationship which upset Harry greatly and supposedly the relationship did not fully recover and seemingly worsened until the recent reconciliation.