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  #401  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
Kate also had the benefit of having years of not being a full time royal. She got to chill and fly under the radar in a way without much royal responsibility. She got to experience her pregnancies in piece. So did Sophie. It is sad Meghan was attacked throughout hers. Also Sophie benefited of not having to be in the middle of the media cluster like Kate and Meghan.

Meghan entered the family at an awkward time and she also had other aspects to her (race, nationality, career, marriage status....) that created more story and grief that none of these other ladies will ever have to deal with.

It is what it is.

Again we have no idea what is actually going on. People think they hurting the royals. Well maybe they hurt the Sussexes too. We truly have zero idea and assuming based on whatever.

But in the end I agree that the Sussexes will likely no longer be members of the BRF and I think that will be what they all agree is for the best for everyone. And then the next stop is everyone dealing that the aftermath.
Meghan’s choice to marry so quickly. She gets no pass on that.

I will grant the aspect of bring Bi-racial caused issues no one else in the family experienced.

But I am constantly amazed by the short memories people have about the vicious stories printed about other women in the BRF. Sophie had to give up her career because of underhanded media and a lapse in judgment by Sophie. So no, things have not been sunshine and roses for everyone else.
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  #402  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:14 AM
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Kate also had the benefit of having years of not being a full time royal. She got to chill and fly under the radar in a way without much royal responsibility. She got to experience her pregnancies in piece. So did Sophie. It is sad Meghan was attacked throughout hers. Also Sophie benefited of not having to be in the middle of the media cluster like Kate and Meghan.

Meghan entered the family at an awkward time and she also had other aspects to her (race, nationality, career, marriage status....) that created more story and grief that none of these other ladies will ever have to deal with.

It is what it is.

Again we have no idea what is actually going on. People think they hurting the royals. Well maybe they hurt the Sussexes too. We truly have zero idea and assuming based on whatever.

But in the end I agree that the Sussexes will likely no longer be members of the BRF and I think that will be what they all agree is for the best for everyone. And then the next stop is everyone dealing that the aftermath.

Sophie did have a lot to deal with, Also maybe Meghan should have taken her time and flew below the radar until she found her feet.
She was feted on this forum for working right up to the birth, not putting her feet up but working on projects at home etc etc, very little household staff doing everything herself, even planting her garden we all read them. Comparisons were being made but She should have been resting and putting her feet up, she was having then had a baby, I do not care how rich you are, you still have hormones blood pressure etc etc. You take care of your body, when you think of it she should really be on maternity leave now, Archie is not a year old yet.
I think she tried too hard to show she could do it all, every project went well but at what cost , maybe if they had built up more gradually things might have been different. She didn't give herself time to understand the royal role,
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  #403  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by MidwestMom View Post
Diana, Sarah, Sophie, and Kate all are/were British, so they had some idea of what royal life would entail. Sophie and Kate, coming from stable homes have done well. Meghan, being an American, no doubt had a different concept of royalty than the others. Like Diana, she got thrown in at the deep end following a relatively short courtship. I haven't followed Meghan too closely, but she has been so badly treated by the tabloid press, no wonder she needed to get away from the pressure. Well, Charles has wanted to slim down the monarchy, and that seems to be happening.
Meghan chose to dive into the deep end-she was not thown in. I think she should have waded for awhile to get accustomed to the water.
This was like the ocean, when she was used to a lake.
  #404  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:25 AM
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Sophie did have a lot to deal with, Also maybe Meghan should have taken her time and flew below the radar until she found her feet.
She was feted on this forum for working right up to the birth, not putting her feet up but working on projects at home etc etc, very little household staff doing everything herself, even planting her garden we all read them. Comparisons were being made but She should have been resting and putting her feet up, she was having then had a baby, I do not care how rich you are, you still have hormones blood pressure etc etc. You take care of your body, when you think of it she should really be on maternity leave now, Archie is not a year old yet.
I think she tried too hard to show she could do it all, every project went well but at what cost , maybe if they had built up more gradually things might have been different. She didn't give herself time to understand the royal role,
Meghan was a full time working royal. If she hasn't did anything she would have been attacked. Heck she was attacked for actually working. And it seems like she worked because it gave her a sense a purpose. Kind of seems she didn't feel like she had much of one in that family, sadly.

And honestly what did she really do that was so much? She has some side projects and did engagements. Much like the other royals. She just had an extra spotlight because she was the punching bag of the moment.

Meghan hasn't even been a royal for 2 years. I really don't think it mattered how long she waited to marry him or not because nothing would have changed. We saw how they were before the wedding and now after.

I mean even little Archie was attacked hours after his birth. I don't recall any of the other royals having while barely a day old.

Right or wrong she did experience different experiences than the others. Not saying they all haven't had their own but it was very different and clearly they were tired of it.

It is a shame but maybe this is all for the best.
  #405  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
I think the site just lays out a guideline of what could potentially happen. They also say throughout it "if called upon" as if to say if they are not it also will not occur. Again, I don't think Harry and Meghan expect to remain members of the BRF. I truly don't.


If that is their desire/expectation, then that’s just one more reason they should have waited until things were sorted out to make this announcement. Because all they’re saying now is that they will no longer be senior royals. The final result should (or should have) come from ONE statement, without backtracking later.

And certainly the family should have known they were going public with this, which it seems they did not.
  #406  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:29 AM
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I am sorry, I totally disagree with the thought process that Meghan dove in too quickly, or should have relaxed or whatever. She was going to have issues with the press regardless. Her work ethic is not the issue. Everyone agrees that she is warmly received, knows what she is talking about when meeting people, is engaging when on tour, is committed to the projects she works with, etc. Her work is not the problem. People have been writing and complaining about everything else!

Let's face it...the women who married William and Harry were always going to have a lot of interest in them. That's a fact. Isn't this why two of Harry's other girlfriends said THANKS BUT NO THANKS? Why some of Charles's old girlfriends said the same? The fact that Meghan is an biracial American divorced actress with colorful family is ratings gold!

But back to the main issue.

I must admit...I am very shocked and disappointed. I understand why they did it but I think they could have handled it better. They certainly should have told (if this is true) the Queen, Charles and William before posting it on instagram. I read that was leaked on the Sun (so they potentially have a leak that they need to deal with. Maybe they should handlle it like Colleen Rooney :)

I think they will realizes that you can't have it both ways. You want to live at Frogmore, okay pay rent like everyone else. You want to have security. Okay, you can have security but only when performing royal duties. Otherwise, suck it up and take your chances when you go out or pay for it out of pocket. You want to go on foreign trips...sorry...royal trips (that are paid by the British government) are for "senior" royals.

I am mainly disappointed in Harry. He has really wanted to live a simple life before Meghan came along but I always thought he would stay in the game because of William. Because he wouldn't leave William alone on the island (even if William had his own family). Only they know what is like to be the children of Charles and Diana, only they are the two grandsons of a monarch and the sons of a future monarch. i thought he would support William and now that is questionable.

I get why he wants to protect his wife and child. I do agree that some of the issues the Sussex's have bought on themselves but some of the media interest is OUT OF CONTROL. It reminds me when Charles and Diana first married and the BRF wasn't prepared for the maga interest in Diana. Its like that again....its more than what happened to Kate and I don't think a lot of people realize that.

But we shall see...I think Harry will be back. He will see that House (of Windsor) always wins.
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  #407  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:33 AM
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A couple of points if I may:

1. There is no reason to remove HRH for this pair. Remember George VI insisted that Edward VIII, who was also a senior royal who walked away, kept his as he was always 'the son of a King'. He even went further and gave him his dukedom AFTER he stepped down.

2. Some years ago - in the late 90s I read, and again a number of times in the 2000s that the Queen wouldn't give consent to a royal marriage unless the couple had been together for at least five years. If true she has been proven right as all the marriages and couples, at the forefront of the BRF, since that time that have had those long relationships prior to marriage have lasted - Edward, Peter, Zara, William and Eugenie (well over a year). The only one that hasn't seemed to 'get the message' was the rushed marriage of Harry and Meghan. One has to ask - would Meghan have been able to accept the royal set-up better if she had been forced to wait another year or two? Diana and Charles had about 13 dates before the engagement and both knew it was wrong before the marriage. Sarah and Andrew about the same, with the added complication that he was hardly ever home due to being a serving officer in the navy. Harry and Meghan didn't have enough time together for her to really learn about the BRF and how it operated and now they want to run away, it seems. I do wonder if another year or two dating would have led to this or whether she would have upped sticks before the engagement? Was Harry scarred he wouldn't find someone 'to take him on' so he accepted the first person who did and did so without ensuring they fully understood what they were taking on? Is this what William was concerned about with the reported 'warning' to Harry?

3. I do think The Queen will stop them making money from using their title but insisting that any money made has to go to charity. If they do a talk show or something like that there will be rules put in place about what can and what can't be talked about I am sure. I do think that there will be a lot of 'rule setting' behind the scenes or a complete 'cut-off' even down to finding a way to remove Harry from the line of succession, even if they can't remove their titles e.g. insist that a person must reside in the UK for at least 10 months a year to be in the line of succession (and that would have the other advantage of shortening the line of succession from its current over 5000 down to a manageable 60 or so).
  #408  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:36 AM
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Unless the family didn't want them out. I mean wasn't this same thing rumored about Harry years ago? He wanted out and the family got him to change his mind. Maybe they thought they could do it again. I still think they thought those 6 weeks away would be a reset of whatever was happening within the family and they could start fresh. I guess not.

The reporters are all claiming the family were informed a week ago by Harry and Meghan. I think it was Roya Nikkah on one programmed I watched said she spoke to someone close to a very senior royal who was under the impression the family was trying to find a compromise with Harry and Meghan. That Charles wanted them to still be part of his "slimmed down monarchy."

Well if they wanted out but the royal family didn't -- what do you do? As another of the guest speaking said "force their hand" and it seems that is what this statement did. Right or wrong. We really have no idea but I am sure these next few days will be eye opening.
  #409  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:42 AM
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I have to wonder what MEGHAN'S mom thinks about all this? Granted we haven't seen that much of her but, from the little I have seen, she seems like such a calm, sensible person. No public statements to the press. Rising above criticism gracefully - she had a few nasty things said about her, too. Happy and dignified at the wedding. Quietly supporting her daughter in the background. I can't see her thinking the way her daughter and son in law are acting is appropriate, and she must see how they're shooting themselves in the foot with some of the things they're doing. And this never ending parade of various dramas has got to be hard on the couple's relationship with each other and maybe even affecting their son. I would be worried sick. Seriously at intervention, call in the therapists level of worry. Anything to get them to calm down and stop taking these sorts of drastic measures that are very difficult to walk back.

Why couldn't they have said that they did a lot of reflecting over Christmas and realize that, in cooperation with BP, they want to make some adjustments to how they operate as members of the royal family and will therefore be taking on fewer engagements for the next, say three or four months, to figure out something to figure out how they can best serve the British people AND maintain their own mental health? I think you need that sort of timeline to come up with a solution everyone can live with... if they want to get out I think they should be able to do that, but they don't need to try to set the house on fire as they're walking out the door.
  #410  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
A couple of points if I may:

1. There is no reason to remove HRH for this pair. Remember George VI insisted that Edward VIII, who was also a senior royal who walked away, kept his as he was always 'the son of a King'. He even went further and gave him his dukedom AFTER he stepped down.

2. Some years ago - in the late 90s I read, and again a number of times in the 2000s that the Queen wouldn't give consent to a royal marriage unless the couple had been together for at least five years. If true she has been proven right as all the marriages and couples, at the forefront of the BRF, since that time that have had those long relationships prior to marriage have lasted - Edward, Peter, Zara, William and Eugenie (well over a year). The only one that hasn't seemed to 'get the message' was the rushed marriage of Harry and Meghan. One has to ask - would Meghan have been able to accept the royal set-up better if she had been forced to wait another year or two? Diana and Charles had about 13 dates before the engagement and both knew it was wrong before the marriage. Sarah and Andrew about the same, with the added complication that he was hardly ever home due to being a serving officer in the navy. Harry and Meghan didn't have enough time together for her to really learn about the BRF and how it operated and now they want to run away, it seems. I do wonder if another year or two dating would have led to this or whether she would have upped sticks before the engagement? Was Harry scarred he wouldn't find someone 'to take him on' so he accepted the first person who did and did so without ensuring they fully understood what they were taking on? Is this what William was concerned about with the reported 'warning' to Harry?

3. I do think The Queen will stop them making money from using their title but insisting that any money made has to go to charity. If they do a talk show or something like that there will be rules put in place about what can and what can't be talked about I am sure. I do think that there will be a lot of 'rule setting' behind the scenes or a complete 'cut-off' even down to finding a way to remove Harry from the line of succession, even if they can't remove their titles e.g. insist that a person must reside in the UK for at least 10 months a year to be in the line of succession (and that would have the other advantage of shortening the line of succession from its current over 5000 down to a manageable 60 or so).
I agree with what you say regarding the short engagements, I dont know about the 5 year thing but in the past before press intrusion and social media, the royals could conduct romances under the radar. They all met up with the same groups at house parties, weddings, royal events etc, they were all in the same circle so knew what was expected. Also if an engagement was imminent, they were often asked to wait a few months to be sure before announcing. The queen as Princess Elizabeth went on a tour to South Africa with her parents.
I read an interesting article before Xmas discussing Meghan but also commented that Michael Middleton had meetings before Kates engagement was announced to ensure protections were in place for his daughter, the writer noted that it was a pity that Meghan didnt have a Michael Middleton.
  #411  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:44 AM
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I had expected it - Too many lawyer visits in the US, Canada for something not to be up. This is how it is going to pan out, I think:


1. Harry and Meghan want the kind of life Angelina Jolie and Bono have, able to hightlight problems and then not have the need to remain politically neutral. Meghan was unsuccessful when she wasn't hired by the UN as a UN ambassador she might try again for the role. And now they don't have to play second fiddle to Charles, Camilla , William and Kate and in time the Cambridge children .
2. I suspect they wanted to the be the top royals in the commonwealth and were denied the role. Note - this has been requested by other royals and by senior government advisors before and denied. I didn't see the palace doing it now for Harry but there was always the possibility. But once again then there was a possibility of the defacto King and Queen of Canada and the palace would not have lived with that.

3. Harry has a lot of money - which he can live off if he doesn't have an outrageous lifestyle, but he has many friends that provide freebees that he can now use very easily and not have the problem when it appears in the press. They can also make money in many ways - not only with the foundation but overall just by showing up. Meghan never dropped her agents in the US - she might be wanting to return to the screen.

4.I don't think that their role will change at all - they will still be there, just not living in the palace and have a lot more freedom to voice their opinions and sue the press. So a watered down version of the Kents maybe? They are still part of the family. But at the moment it is becoming increasingly difficult to determine the royal family from the monarchy. They wont leave Frogmore or drop their titles. They want it both on their terms. It is a case of wanting your cake and eating it too. Not going to work.

You cannot live between worlds - you cannot be a royal and a celebrity. Royalty comes with responsibilities and duties. The best description I have heard came from the currently member of the BRF - you are a servant to the public. You belong to them. I don't think that Meghan has got that ever - alarmed that Harry never figured it out. I have been told the biggest problem is they don't know their place and surround themselves with people that provide shortsighted advice. And then what happens in the future - if things happens that aren't expected or planned for ?
  #412  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
I have to wonder what MEGHAN'S mom thinks about all this? Granted we haven't seen that much of her but, from the little I have seen, she seems like such a calm, sensible person. No public statements to the press. Rising above criticism gracefully - she had a few nasty things said about her, too. Happy and dignified at the wedding. Quietly supporting her daughter in the background. I can't see her thinking the way her daughter and son in law are acting is appropriate, and she must see how they're shooting themselves in the foot with some of the things they're doing. And this never ending parade of various dramas has got to be hard on the couple's relationship with each other and maybe even affecting their son. I would be worried sick. Seriously at intervention, call in the therapists level of worry. Anything to get them to calm down and stop taking these sorts of drastic measures that are very difficult to walk back.

Why couldn't they have said that they did a lot of reflecting over Christmas and realize that, in cooperation with BP, they want to make some adjustments to how they operate as members of the royal family and will therefore be taking on fewer engagements for the next, say three or four months, to figure out something to figure out how they can best serve the British people AND maintain their own mental health? I think you need that sort of timeline to come up with a solution everyone can live with... if they want to get out I think they should be able to do that, but they don't need to try to set the house on fire as they're walking out the door.

Doria spent the holidays with them. If anyone has a clue what is REALLY going on with them it is likely her. So who is to say she doesn't support them? Maybe she thinks them leaving the firm is the best thing for them. We have zero clue because we don't really know what is happening behind closed doors.
  #413  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire View Post
I had expected it - Too many lawyer visits in the US, Canada for something not to be up. This is how it is going to pan out, I think:


1. Harry and Meghan want the king of live Angelina Jolie and Bono have bel to draw nightlight problems and then not have the need to remain politically neutral. Meghan was unsuccessful when she wasn't hired by the UN as a UN ambassador she might try again for the role. And now they don't have to play second fiddle to Charles, Camilla , William and Kate and in time the Cambridge children .
2. I suspect they wanted to the be the top royals in the commonwealth and were denied the role. Note - this has been requested by other royals and by senior government advisors before and denied. I didn't see the palace doing it now for Harry but there was always the possibility. But once again then there was a possibility of the defacto King and Queen of Canada and the palace would not have lived with that.


3. Harry has a lot of money - which he can live off if he doesn't have an outrageous lifestyle, but he has many friends that provide freebees that he can now use very easily and not have the problem when it appears in the press. They can also make money in many ways - not only with the foundation but overall just by showing up. Meghan never dropped her agents in the US - she might be wanting to return to the screen.



4.I don't think that their role will change anything - they will still be there, just not living in the palace and have a lot more freedom to voice their opinions and sue the press. They are still part of the family. But at the moment it is becoming increasingly difficult to determine the royal family from the monarchy. They wont leave Frogmore or drop their titles. They want it both on their terms. It is a case of wanting your cake and eating it too. Not going to work.

You cannot live between worlds - you cannot be a royal and a celebrity. Royalty comes with responsibilities and duties. The best description I have heard came from the currently member of the BRF - you are a servant to the public. You belong to them. I don't think that Meghan has got that ever - alarmed that Harry never figured it out. I have been told the biggest problem is they don't know their place and surround themselves with people that provide shortsighted advice. And then what happens in the future - if things happens that aren't expected or planned for ?
They surrounded themselves with people who did not understand how royalty works.
The problem as I see it, is that they want to dictate what they do, but still take the money. If they are shown the door , one or both of them could appear on Oprah for big bucks and say where the bodies are buried.
  #414  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
I mean one can also argue that was just some good press. I am not saying otherwise but a moment to celebrate a baby doesn't mean other drama wasn't going down.

I am not even saying I believe it all which I thought I made clear but also was especially obviously things were not well in the House of Windsor. We had that whole thing from Palmer who flat out said *no one* in the family supported the Sussexes and repeated it many times.

Well they have their slimmed monarchy and with three less "senior" royals around things should be interesting.

Either way it seems Harry and Meghan are gone -- whatever that means.
who is Palmer ?
  #415  
Old 01-09-2020, 01:05 AM
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The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

Startling headlines from British newspapers on BBC website:

Newspaper headlines: 'Bombshell' after Harry and Meghan 'quit'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-51042726


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-51042726
  #416  
Old 01-09-2020, 01:11 AM
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Can anyone confirm this, some points I am picking up online:
There is a very thin arbitrary line between minor and major royals - it is your line in succession, relation to the monarch, not the amount of duties performed. Therefore - son of monarchy or Prince of Wales will always be a major royal even if they sit on their butts. It has nothing to do with funding, duties, if they are on Mars and not at BP.
  #417  
Old 01-09-2020, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
who is Palmer ?
Richard Palmer. A royal correspondent.
  #418  
Old 01-09-2020, 01:59 AM
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I am just truly sad this is where it has all ended up. The BRF too inflexible yet again to really see a golden opp with Meghan, Harry and Meghan too hurt to find a better way forward.

The idea that Meghan dove in too quick is laughable. She did what she was asked and supported her patronages well, conducted tours, etc. What has always been the issue is the racist abuse and coordinated smear campaign. I do NOT have selective memory. I was here for some of the worst of what Kate went through and remember thinking it was awful. It did NOT prepare me for the absolute mind blowing and even at times triggering onslaught with Meghan. From day 1 when their relationship was found out.

God what a terrible mess and tragedy of errors. I hope cooler heads prevail.
  #419  
Old 01-09-2020, 02:05 AM
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I am really sad to hear this. I am at work and don't have time to read all the 400+ posts
Prince Harry was born into this and when someone has to give up so much of who he is h'mm... doesn't sound so good
On a sarcastic level, I feel Meghan was tiffed off that Archie isn't a HRH
also I feel it never sat well with her playing second fiddle to Kate
  #420  
Old 01-09-2020, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
Who is to say they didn't true and were completely miserable. We really have no idea what goes on behind the scenes of that family. Meghan made it pretty clear in her documentary that she was feeling some kind of way. So honestly maybe they felt they had no choice. People aren't this drastic for no reason.

We only learn about that through the media who is aghast at them.It's understandible but you harvest what you sow and Meghan is not a victim like Diana and Srah were back then. Plus Harry has seen what the media did to his mother and he is supporting his wife, that is sure. I bet if the media had welcomed Meghan to the Royal family for real, she would have stayed a "Royal wife". And yes, the fake sheikh number is already planned but I guess Harry and Meghan know that, too.



I can't believe the Sussexes did not use email or phone to tell their family (and employers!) what they have been thinking. Harry is not the guy (exmilitary anyone?) to leave the family this way, with a short message on Instagram of all places. This was their message to the public and while the Royal staff (grey men!!) think there is still a lot to arrange, I bet the queen and Charles are much further along. IMHO.
How the Daily Mail must hate them now! And will probably not able to write them down anymore if you take the "Taxpayer" out of the equation. For their work is good and their life is private. Just as it should be.
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