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  #3941  
Old 01-20-2020, 01:21 PM
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I thought that Harry's speech was heartfelt and also filled with the easy charm for which he is famous. The things that struck sour notes for me were his emphasis on being left with no choice but to leave, and his references to Diana.

I am beginning to feel that Harry's constant referencing of Diana is a bit manipulative. It may be sincere on his part, but it is also something he drags out often, as though being her son, and having been traumatized by her death gives him a pass for whatever he chooses to do that might otherwise invite criticism.

I also didn't care for the being left with no alternative but to leave narrative, because that neatly shifts the blame onto others: press, family, monarchy, fill in the blank. In other words, he and Meghan would have loved to have stuck around and continued to work for the monarchy and British people, but since they weren't going to be given exactly the terms they wanted, they were forced--forced, I tell you!--to pick up their marbles and move to another continent. I would have had so much more respect for him if he had acknowledged that his and Meghan's priorities had shifted, and that the decision had been made to start a new phase of their lives, blah, blah blah. I don't care for the not so subtle implication that if only they had been given what they wanted they would have stuck around.
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  #3942  
Old 01-20-2020, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tausi View Post
I too agree with Piers in this one analysis. He nailed. Harry always playing a victim, little boy who lost his mother.

It’s shameful.
It is beyond shameful. JMO, there are times I’ve thought playing victim and bringing up his mother was his career.
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  #3943  
Old 01-20-2020, 01:36 PM
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I have a good friend in Canada who is a Commodore. I caught up with him yesterday and got his thoughts on Mexit.

He said that once the final decision was made that Harry would not be doing any duties on behalf of the Queen and Crown, the Queen really had no choice but to remove his military appointments. Not doing so would have caused major discontent in the rank and file.

The Armed Forces of constitutional monarchies take great pride in serving an apolitical Commander-in-Chief (even though they are subject to the whims of an elected government). He thinks that a significant number of the UK’s rank and file armed forces feel that Harry has betrayed his Commander-in Chief and feel that he has no right to be an honorary representative for them.

The armed forces are big on action and consequence and Harry took and action and there needed to be a consequence.

He said the difference between Prince Andrew and Prince Harry was mainly age and the length of military service. Andrew’s stepping back is being viewed as a retirement whilst Harry’s is being viewed as abandonment.

He said most civilians would be surprised at how much time senior military leaders spend on ensuring that the rank and file are happy and content so he would not be surprised if the Armed Forces leadership encouraged Her Majesty to do this.
  #3944  
Old 01-20-2020, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ista View Post
I thought that Harry's speech was heartfelt and also filled with the easy charm for which he is famous. The things that struck sour notes for me were his emphasis on being left with no choice but to leave, and his references to Diana.

I am beginning to feel that Harry's constant referencing of Diana is a bit manipulative. It may be sincere on his part, but it is also something he drags out often, as though being her son, and having been traumatized by her death gives him a pass for whatever he chooses to do that might otherwise invite criticism.

I also didn't care for the being left with no alternative but to leave narrative, because that neatly shifts the blame onto others: press, family, monarchy, fill in the blank. In other words, he and Meghan would have loved to have stuck around and continued to work for the monarchy and British people, but since they weren't going to be given exactly the terms they wanted, they were forced--forced, I tell you!--to pick up their marbles and move to another continent. I would have had so much more respect for him if he had acknowledged that his and Meghan's priorities had shifted, and that the decision had been made to start a new phase of their lives, blah, blah blah. I don't care for the not so subtle implication that if only they had been given what they wanted they would have stuck around.
You nailed exactly what I felt regarding his speech. Very well said. I agree that Harry is being fairly manipulative regarding his mother's death.
  #3945  
Old 01-20-2020, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ista View Post
I thought that Harry's speech was heartfelt and also filled with the easy charm for which he is famous. The things that struck sour notes for me were his emphasis on being left with no choice but to leave, and his references to Diana.

I am beginning to feel that Harry's constant referencing of Diana is a bit manipulative. It may be sincere on his part, but it is also something he drags out often, as though being her son, and having been traumatized by her death gives him a pass for whatever he chooses to do that might otherwise invite criticism.

I also didn't care for the being left with no alternative but to leave narrative, because that neatly shifts the blame onto others: press, family, monarchy, fill in the blank. In other words, he and Meghan would have loved to have stuck around and continued to work for the monarchy and British people, but since they weren't going to be given exactly the terms they wanted, they were forced--forced, I tell you!--to pick up their marbles and move to another continent. I would have had so much more respect for him if he had acknowledged that his and Meghan's priorities had shifted, and that the decision had been made to start a new phase of their lives, blah, blah blah. I don't care for the not so subtle implication that if only they had been given what they wanted they would have stuck around.
Oh I couldn’t agree more. The more I read through speech, the less I like it, though it was heartfelt and sincere.

Harry is not an intellectual, but he’s no dummy - he plays on the public’s love for his mother and their sympathy for him; he uses and then loses the media depending on when it suits him. This doesn’t make him a bad guy - he’s truly a good man at heart - but it makes him a lot more complicated than his image of a generally happy man would have you believe.
  #3946  
Old 01-20-2020, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ista View Post
I thought that Harry's speech was heartfelt and also filled with the easy charm for which he is famous. The things that struck sour notes for me were his emphasis on being left with no choice but to leave, and his references to Diana.

I am beginning to feel that Harry's constant referencing of Diana is a bit manipulative. It may be sincere on his part, but it is also something he drags out often, as though being her son, and having been traumatized by her death gives him a pass for whatever he chooses to do that might otherwise invite criticism.

I also didn't care for the being left with no alternative but to leave narrative, because that neatly shifts the blame onto others: press, family, monarchy, fill in the blank. In other words, he and Meghan would have loved to have stuck around and continued to work for the monarchy and British people, but since they weren't going to be given exactly the terms they wanted, they were forced--forced, I tell you!--to pick up their marbles and move to another continent. I would have had so much more respect for him if he had acknowledged that his and Meghan's priorities had shifted, and that the decision had been made to start a new phase of their lives, blah, blah blah. I don't care for the not so subtle implication that if only they had been given what they wanted they would have stuck around.

I agree with a lot of what you say. I'm both saddened and angered by Harry's speech.

I do wonder however if Harry identifies himself to a large extent as Diana's son, hence his constant references to her. It would explain his attraction to Meghan, who shares Diana's desire to help others (as well as her inability to subordinate or modify her personal goals for the greater good of the monarchy).

It would also explain Harry's relationship with the media, hostile to the extent that rather than learning to live with it (as William has done), he's consumed by a self-perceived need to shield his wife and son from it.

I'm not excusing his behavior, just trying to understand it.
  #3947  
Old 01-20-2020, 02:19 PM
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Finally, someone's done some homework and realised the title for at the very least Meghan is wrong.
https://twitter.com/SkyRhiannon/stat...731641857?s=20
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  #3948  
Old 01-20-2020, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
They wanted it all, but they learned they can not have it all...the Monarchy wins again, lol... You’re either all in or all out....the Royal life is a full time commitment, not something you do on the side as a leisure time activity. It’s a lot of hard work, and it requires sacrifices - painful sacrifices. Harry wasn’t ever going to be King, so honestly, I think he had it as good as it could get - he’d work full-time, but still have quality family life. William is the one with the heavy burden of responsibility, but for now he hasn’t had to sacrifice family time thanks to his grandmother’s longevity. Neither she nor Charles were that fortunate.

Yep, the Queen and Charles - because he was definitely involved in this - left no doubt that Harry and Meghan would have to forge their new life separate and apart from the BRF. They wanted freedom, and now they have it - and with freedom comes responsibility. They’ve got Charles’ funding to back them for now, but it won’t always be that way.
And it is sad that Harry does not realize how good he had it. I think not too far down the road, he will realize that.
  #3949  
Old 01-20-2020, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akina21 View Post
I doubt that because I think he really doesn't know what he wants. He wants some hard to define sense of ultimate happiness which everyone else is supposed to deliver for him .
This is why I wrote "what he needs" .
  #3950  
Old 01-20-2020, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ista View Post
I thought that Harry's speech was heartfelt and also filled with the easy charm for which he is famous. The things that struck sour notes for me were his emphasis on being left with no choice but to leave, and his references to Diana.

I am beginning to feel that Harry's constant referencing of Diana is a bit manipulative. It may be sincere on his part, but it is also something he drags out often, as though being her son, and having been traumatized by her death gives him a pass for whatever he chooses to do that might otherwise invite criticism.

I also didn't care for the being left with no alternative but to leave narrative, because that neatly shifts the blame onto others: press, family, monarchy, fill in the blank. In other words, he and Meghan would have loved to have stuck around and continued to work for the monarchy and British people, but since they weren't going to be given exactly the terms they wanted, they were forced--forced, I tell you!--to pick up their marbles and move to another continent. I would have had so much more respect for him if he had acknowledged that his and Meghan's priorities had shifted, and that the decision had been made to start a new phase of their lives, blah, blah blah. I don't care for the not so subtle implication that if only they had been given what they wanted they would have stuck around.
It is rather disingenuous for Harry to say he was "forced" to leave. Just because he was willing to be a once in awhile royal, doesn't mean there were not valid reasons-reasons that had to have been explained to him-that it was not a feasible model. It seems very petulant.

And I am tired of Diana's name being invoked by so many people, including her younger son. Harry is not the only person who has lost a parent in an automobile accident while at a young age, and it happened 22 years ago. If it is still really that traumatic, he needs help.
  #3951  
Old 01-20-2020, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
I do wonder however if Harry identifies himself to a large extent as Diana's son, hence his constant references to her. It would explain his attraction to Meghan, who shares Diana's desire to help others (as well as her inability to subordinate or modify her personal goals for the greater good of the monarchy).

It would also explain Harry's relationship with the media, hostile to the extent that rather than learning to live with it (as William has done), he's consumed by a self-perceived need to shield his wife and son from it.

I'm not excusing his behavior, just trying to understand it.
Possible, I mean everyone keeps speaking about them both as Diana's sons. Not Charles' and Diana's, no just Diana's. And since he was only 12 yrs old, there's a chance it shaped his identity. At 15 Williams identity was more formed than Harry's.
  #3952  
Old 01-20-2020, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
It is rather disingenuous for Harry to say he was "forced" to leave. Just because he was willing to be a once in awhile royal, doesn't mean there were not valid reasons-reasons that had to have been explained to him-that it was not a feasible model. It seems very petulant.

And I am tired of Diana's name being invoked by so many people, including her younger son. Harry is not the only person who has lost a parent in an automobile accident while at a young age, and it happened 22 years ago. If it is still really that traumatic, he needs help.
I suspect he focuses on the "she died while being pursued by the paparazzi" part and not the fact that the driver was drunk and his mother often colluded with members of the press.
  #3953  
Old 01-20-2020, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
And it is sad that Harry does not realize how good he had it. I think not too far down the road, he will realize that.
I wouldn’t be surprised...What I don’t understand is why he didn’t just ask to have his schedule modified - I’m sure his father and grandmother would have been fine with that. This is such an extreme measure, and one with enormous ramifications, never mind personal pain.
  #3954  
Old 01-20-2020, 02:54 PM
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Actually, for the speech Harry made the other night, I think it was very appropriate to mention his mother. After all, it was at a Sentebale dinner that he gave that speech.

Sentebale was founded as a memorial for both Prince Harry's and Prince Seeiso's mothers. Sentebale means "forget me not".
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  #3955  
Old 01-20-2020, 02:56 PM
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[...]Harry was not about to see his wife, like his mother lose her mental equilibrium and even possibly her life to the relentless and vicious hounding by the paparazzi.
I watched many, many videos of Meghan greeting people and she was sometimes a little ill at ease learning her new role but always gracious and charming. She tried so hard to please her husband and the royal family but it seems that nothing was ever good enough. [...]
I am counting on my country, Canada to give Harry and Meghan the deserved respect and freedom to live a tranquil and peaceful life...finally!
  #3956  
Old 01-20-2020, 02:56 PM
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Wow Harry's speech. Saying he had no choice was ridiculous. I wish he would just own up to wanting a different life, and that the restrictions on their lives as royals was just not cutting it for them anymore because these two did have a choice and that was to ignore the media, use their platforms to constructively discuss their problems with the press and the perceived racism, and keep at it, doing the nitty gritty of royal work and supporting the monarchy. The decision they made meant that the values of duty and supporting the Queen were NOT inviolable to them, despite what they're saying then and now and in the future. They couldn't take the heat, think the grass is greener elsewhere...fine. But he needs to own up to it, stop playing to the public's sympathy, stop playing the games with the media his mother did, because although it has immediate gains, it eventually does nothing but cheapens his status. Unless he wants to go down as one of the whiniest princes in history.
  #3957  
Old 01-20-2020, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Elenath View Post
Possible, I mean everyone keeps speaking about them both as Diana's sons. Not Charles' and Diana's, no just Diana's. And since he was only 12 yrs old, there's a chance it shaped his identity. At 15 Williams identity was more formed than Harry's.
Harry himself doing it last night bothers me...maybe it’s just how kids are, not always respecting their parents (which seems to be the case with W and H), but Harry is 35 years old...he’s a man. It’s time to try and understand your father instead of mocking him, even affectionately. Of course if Charles had been a bad, unloving dad, I wouldn’t be saying this, but we know he hasn’t - even Diana knew it
  #3958  
Old 01-20-2020, 03:06 PM
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Piers Morgan may not be a very nice person, but that doesn't mean he's wrong. However, I think there's room for middle ground. Everything Harry said could be true of Harry personally. If things with Meghan have deteriorated to the point where she's threatening extreme measures if she doesn't get to leave and do what she wants, he really has no good options, and probably feels (quite reasonably) like he has no choice. If she's told him that she's staying in Canada with Archie regardless of what he does or doesn't do, then going part-time would have seemed like a good option. When that didn't work, what should he have done, aside from travel back in time and not marry Meghan? If Meghan told him that she'd have been fine had it not been for the media, all he's done wrong there is believing her. In that case, every word he said would have been completely sincere as regards himself.

As I've said before, however much Harry might not have liked being royal, he never showed any intention or serious desire to quit. As a bachelor, he could have stepped back any time he wanted, and he never did. He allowed two serious relationships with women he loved to end because they were self-aware enough to tell him from the outset that they didn't want the demands of a royal lifestyle. If he viewed quitting to please his wife as a real possibility, he'd have done it then and married one of them. Based on that, I don't believe he'd have married Meghan were it not for her assurance that she was willing and able to . handle it. But instead of being honest and realistic from the beginning, she waited until she was married and they had a baby to spring it on him that she wanted out. This would put him in an impossible situation. He probably does feel that his hand was forced (because it was), and he's probably sincerely regretful about being forced by circumstances to do something he'd never have knowingly signed up for.
  #3959  
Old 01-20-2020, 03:06 PM
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[...] And given again the context, him referencing his mother made perfect sense because he co-founded this charity to HONOR his mother.
  #3960  
Old 01-20-2020, 03:13 PM
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Last night should have been about Sentebale. It was not the appropriate forum for Harry to once again air his discontent about how he and his new family have been treated by his country and his old family.
His timing, ever since the tour of Africa by himself and Meghan a few months ago followed by that explosive statement, is beyond comprehension - I just can't understand what advice he is being given, if any.
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