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  #3861  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
Family relationships can be complicated at the best of times, especially when we’re talking about an adult child still relying on his father’s money. I think that, given their unique situation as royals, the financial issue, the very public divorce for the ages in the background and, finally, the death of Diana, the state of the relationship between Charles and his sons is probably complex, to put it mildly. So much water under the bridge.

William was lucky to find a wife with a very stable family background. Kate can provide the blueprint for a normal, “boring,” family life. He’s also always had the benefit of knowing what his life and career will look like from start to finish. Less freedom but more security.

IMO Harry still has issues from everything that happened when he was a child and adolescent. He also could have used some of the structure that was put in place for William.

In any event, if what he says in his speech is true, I think both he and the BRF will benefit from his absence. He made it crystal clear he hasn’t wanted to be there for some time now. I don’t know what he’ll do if he discovers that the source of his unhappiness runs deeper than the royal family, the media, his financial dependence, etc, because he has no choice now but to make his new life work for him.
Good points... I’m sure that William and Harry know how much their father loves and supports them, even if they don’t always listen to him. Charles doesn’t seem to judge them; he seems to give them their freedom to be who they’re going to be...I think that’s terrific, even though it might mean they don’t always treat him well. He’s not going to try and force things. They aren’t boys anymore, they’re men, but it just might be that they won’t truly appreciate him until he’s gone. The important thing is that they know their father is there if they need them - and that seems to be especially important for Harry now, if the reports are true.

The good thing is that, if Harry is unhappy in his new life, he can always come home - no one will think worse of him, no one will judge him; they would try and help him as much as they could

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post
It might get reviewed sooner than that....A certain forum that is completely pro-Meghan is now awash in discussion that they are in the final stages of a deal with Netflix worth several hundreds of millions of dollars and Meghan plans to actively campaign with whoever runs against Trump in November...Hopefully this is just idle speculation or the agreement is going to be reviewed much sooner than a year
I saw that in the DM...are they trying to go into producing tv shows and movies? Vehicles for Meghan? I doubt Charles is going to want to oversee what Harry is doing with the $ - in fact, it’s probably not a good idea as if he wants to be independent, he’s got to sink or swim on his own.
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  #3862  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Good points... I’m sure that William and Harry know how much their father loves and supports them, even if they don’t always listen to him. Charles doesn’t seem to judge them; he seems to give them their freedom to be who they’re going to be...I think that’s terrific, even though it might mean they don’t always treat him well. He’s not going to try and force things. They aren’t boys anymore, they’re men, but it just might be that they won’t truly appreciate him until he’s gone. The important thing is that they know their father is there if they need them - and that seems to be especially important for Harry now, if the reports are true.

The good thing is that, if Harry is unhappy in his new life, he can always come home - no one will think worse of him, no one will judge him; they would try and help him as much as they could
I think that's a little optimistic. I think his public image in the UK will not bounce back just because he said "oops, I prefer my old life after all!". Now if he wants to come back as a private citizen I'm sure he can rebuild his family relationships overtime, that trust will be hard to earn. But if he comes back trying to be "Prince Harry", they'll be plenty of judgment. He would need to give the public an epic mea culpa, even then he might not be embraced.
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  #3863  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:47 PM
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Harry's speech was very moving and it felt right to speak to the tension at Sentebale for me. A deeply personal project that he co-founded to honor his mother.

He addressed the elephant in the room and then focused on the charity.

I am proud of the man he has grown to be. And it was especially poignant to hear him talk about Meghan. Seeing him so in love has really been a treat and again, I am so excited to see what they work on together.

Harry has tri-lateral meetings tomorrow as part of the UK-Africa Summit and then I expect he will be back in Canada for the rest of the month.
  #3864  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post
It might get reviewed sooner than that....A certain forum that is completely pro-Meghan is now awash in discussion that they are in the final stages of a deal with Netflix worth several hundreds of millions of dollars and Meghan plans to actively campaign with whoever runs against Trump in November...Hopefully this is just idle speculation or the agreement is going to be reviewed much sooner than a year
This is the sort of political activism I've always suspected Meghan really wants to do. If she's simply a private citizen, even one who happens to hold a title, there's not much that can be one to stop it. But the BRF who won't even let prime ministers onto their balcony because it might be perceived as an endorsement is absolutely not going to pay for this.

I'm undecided about whether she ever sincerely intended to try to fit into the royal mold. Thus far, aside from the website announcement, she hasn't done anything she couldn't have done while remaining a working royal. That's consistent with basically wanting the same things, but being unable or unwilling to handle the media attention. But if she starts doing all kinds of things that would never in a million years have been allowed for a working royal, I'm going to find it harder and harder to believe that she ever intended to have a life where she couldn't do those things.
  #3865  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss whirley View Post
I think that's a little optimistic. I think his public image in the UK will not bounce back just because he said "oops, I prefer my old life after all!". Now if he wants to come back as a private citizen I'm sure he can rebuild his family relationships overtime, that trust will be hard to earn. But if he comes back trying to be "Prince Harry", they'll be plenty of judgment. He would need to give the public an epic mea culpa, even then he might not be embraced.
Sorry, I meant his family; it’s a lot more complicated with the public.
  #3866  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:17 PM
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Another article on Charles, William and Harry....

Poor Charles...I hope he was able to find some peace in Scotland.

I’m sure no one will blame him for this, though I understand why he would think they would.

I didn’t know that there was a point where he and William weren’t speaking. How sad..I just can’t imagine things ever getting to that point in any family; that’s heartbreaking. Maybe it’s because he was old enough to remember the worst of those days, and be blamed his father. Who knows? I’m glad things are better between them now, and I hope things will be ok with Harry

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...ively-sad.html
  #3867  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:24 PM
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That needs a whole box of salt. There are so many things that don’t even make sense.

I do believe he may have been an indulgent parent.

I’ve said before, take some facts, give them a spin, embroider some new details and you have a new, not quite true, story
  #3868  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
This is interesting because throughout all of this I've been thinking that Harry is showing that he truly takes after his mother. Basically this is shaping up to be very similar to Diana's post-divorce set up.

Diana dismissed her royal security which, had that still been in place, IMO (and others), she would not have met her untimely death. My understanding is that security is one of the items still being worked on, and I hope that all involved have cool heads and compassionate hearts.
Yes, as angry as I am about what H& M have done and as much as I don't want Charles to support them, I do think they need proper security. It is an understatement to say it would be awful for a repeat of what happened with Diana, and some people need to be protected from themselves.
  #3869  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Another article on Charles, William and Harry....

Poor Charles...I hope he was able to find some peace in Scotland.

I’m sure no one will blame him for this, though I understand why he would think they would.

I didn’t know that there was a point where he and William weren’t speaking. How sad..I just can’t imagine things ever getting to that point in any family; that’s heartbreaking. Maybe it’s because he was old enough to remember the worst of those days, and be blamed his father. Who knows? I’m glad things are better between them now, and I hope things will be ok with Harry




https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...ively-sad.html
Sounds like laissez faire parenting run amok. In the future if Charles finds himself too indulgent he needs to ask himself "What would Prince Philip do?"

Though I can understand why his sons would be frustrated with him. He sounds very passive-aggressive in this article. When one son upsets him he whines to the other son about the problem and expects that son to approach the other. I can see where William and Harry's relationship might have weakened because of this. I expect when the Sussexes were at KP, William was forced into the role of bad cop over some of the Sussexes' unrealistic requests, while Charles played doting dad to Harry's face.
  #3870  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaira View Post
Harry's speech was very moving and it felt right to speak to the tension at Sentebale for me.

Harry's speech was actually confrontational and tried to pin the blame on the Royal Family for driving him out, which is actually a distorted version of reality.


Basically we have a situation where someone makes unacceptable demands and, when his demands are (justifiably) turned down, he blames the other side for forcing him out. Again, Harry's sense of entitlement is showing.


I am sorry for having to say that, but I wasn't moved an inch by his speech.
  #3871  
Old 01-20-2020, 12:13 AM
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This has been confusing me, the Buckingham Palace Press Rlease of January 18 stated that H + M will "maintain their personal patronages".

I'm now seeing this summary, per Emily Andrews (is she a good source?) published in Town & Country magazine:

"Harry will no longer be Captain General of Marines, Hon Air Commandant or Commodore-in-chief nor Youth Amabassdor. He & Meghan will keep Pres & VP of @queenscomtrust plus Sentebale, Invictus etc & M’s patronages she took on last year."

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/so...lth-new-roles/

Apologies if this is duplication.
  #3872  
Old 01-20-2020, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Harry's speech was actually confrontational and tried to pin the blame on the Royal Family for driving him out, which is actually a distorted version of reality.


Basically we have a situation where someone makes unacceptable demands and, when his demands are (justifiably) turned down, he blames the other side for forcing him out. Again, Harry's sense of entitlement is showing.


I am sorry for having to say that, but I wasn't moved an inch by his speech.
ok....no where did he blame his family at all. IMO they bear a lot of fault but Harry himself didn't say anything negative.

As it is neither you nor I know the 'reality' of the situation since we are not in the room where things happen. We are all speculating based on ever-changing info and agendas from a greedy media and internal polity.
  #3873  
Old 01-20-2020, 01:16 AM
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To me, it seems that in seeing the familial relationships, we're tending to lump everything together without realizing that its a two fold familial situation.

This is a family that not only has their private familial relationships but also had professional familial relationships. A lot of the discord that has happened came about because of the "Firm" and difference of opinions on how to do things. With William and Harry, they were not only brothers but partners in a Royal Foundation. Then came Catherine and then came Meghan.

On top of all that, they all work for the family "Firm" with the monarch at the helm. Not Granny. The monarch. Then as second tier, you don't have "Pa" but The Prince of Wales. With everyone, as a family, working for the same goals, they end up having differences of opinions on how things should and could be done. The "Firm" isn't a dictatorship but as the Queen, herself, sees it as "Team Windsor".

Harry and Meghan have left the "Firm" to strike out on their own. They're still members of the family and perhaps even with the "professional" disputes finally out of the way and solved, so will the tension between them as family members dissipate. I'd hope so anyways.
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  #3874  
Old 01-20-2020, 01:37 AM
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It's Harry's Life....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladongas View Post
Why should he live it to the specifications and expectations of others?

There’s probably more than one member of this forum who has an adult child whose life and lifestyle they disapprove of, don’t like his spouse, hate his choice of career, disapprove of his political opinions or hobbies, etc...

Do you, can you force him to live his life as you see fit? Or is he entitled to make his own choices regardless of what you think?

I don’t think HM, the PoW, William, all the extended family, the U.K. newspapers and their readership, Piers Morgan, or the general public worldwide have the right to force H&M to live in a fashion that makes them unhappy. Charles said that his relationship with Camilla was “ non-negotiable”, no matter how much pain and embarrassment it caused others. No one objected to his spending Duchy money on his mistress. (Well, maybe they did!)

But Harry, currently 6th in line, is to have no autonomy just because others think he should do something different? Too bad, so sad, it is his life and he is entitled to live it as he pleases.

Of course, we are all entitled to our own opinions, I think a little more compassion is in order.
I do agree with you, Ladongas.

As an American I prize my independence.

It's just a fact of life that families move far away, move in different circles from their childhood friends, leave a family business, make a higher priority of their spouse and children then their grandparents/parents/siblings, as well as carving out their own financial situation.

As for knowing or doing that on your own in advance, some do, some can, others are more likely to do it when they find their life partner, or start a family if their own. It's different for everyone.

Can we agree that Harry's lifestyle and role (recently touted as "William's secret weapon" in the tabloids) had made it downright IMPOSSIBLE for him to maintain a relationship which would otherwise most likely have been viable, successful and become a long term happy marriage because of the British press + internet?

Instead a press buffer was created for William, which allowed Kate and William to get their footing. Harry was a solider and with the troops.

I do worry for him, as I don't believe that pulling away from everyone and keeping to himself, with Meghan and Archie alone would satisfy - we all need extended friends and family He will want and need his home country and connections, as well as new life and connections that they establish together - hopefully freely. I am sad for hims that for his military (so closely related to the Crown) and Queens Commonwealth Youth roles to be taken.

They seem the sort to be able to create that in any new place if without the harassment of the daily tabloid papers (the rota) and _courtiers_leaking nasty stories. I hope it will be safe, peaceful and without paparazzi for them. I hope, I hope, that security will become less and less necessary over time rather than the opposite. It does very much depend on how they handle themselves going forward, Meg mustn't drum it up for fame. That she opted to be paid for her voiceover with a donation to charity bodes wells. She will succeed and take Harry along with her; I believe they can do it as a team. She does seem to need Harry's help with his ability to connect to others. She also seems to have many strong friendships of her own choosing as well.

Once H, M and A are happy, the English family will take it in stride better.
.. or not.
It must bite to see someone grab freedom, when you are stuck in a role that has been determined by your birth, obligation weighing heavy upon you, with a calendar of inescapable dates growing more solid and regular that it keeps you from daily moments with those you love. Surrounded by riches, but only the custodian. Duty to others, always.

But to me what is worse is to be 2-3 steps removed from all the riches with no freedom or power, with those above in rank jealous of your popularity while you remain ... possibly without a partner or children, getting older.

Life is compromise and choice, but each one of us has to make our own choice.
Even if it's one we never really thought possible.
  #3875  
Old 01-20-2020, 01:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
To me, it seems that in seeing the familial relationships, we're tending to lump everything together without realizing that its a two fold familial situation.

This is a family that not only has their private familial relationships but also had professional familial relationships. A lot of the discord that has happened came about because of the "Firm" and difference of opinions on how to do things. With William and Harry, they were not only brothers but partners in a Royal Foundation. Then came Catherine and then came Meghan.

On top of all that, they all work for the family "Firm" with the monarch at the helm. Not Granny. The monarch. Then as second tier, you don't have "Pa" but The Prince of Wales. With everyone, as a family, working for the same goals, they end up having differences of opinions on how things should and could be done. The "Firm" isn't a dictatorship but as the Queen, herself, sees it as "Team Windsor".

Harry and Meghan have left the "Firm" to strike out on their own. They're still members of the family and perhaps even with the "professional" disputes finally out of the way and solved, so will the tension between them as family members dissipate. I'd hope so anyways.
Osipi - I just can't really even imagine how hard it would to get in sync with all the layers of that family with Major Public Role business due to birth order!
  #3876  
Old 01-20-2020, 02:14 AM
ACO ACO is offline
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Seems reporters are questioning why Harry couldn’t maintain HRH or keep doing some service without the public purse as other royals have. ITV said they looking into it.

This story not dying down anytime soon
  #3877  
Old 01-20-2020, 02:56 AM
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They are not trustworthy and have become toxic towards the firm. That will be my guess
  #3878  
Old 01-20-2020, 03:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I saw that in the DM...are they trying to go into producing tv shows and movies? Vehicles for Meghan? I doubt Charles is going to want to oversee what Harry is doing with the $ - in fact, it’s probably not a good idea as if he wants to be independent, he’s got to sink or swim on his own.
Netflix

Now......from the network that brought you The Crown......the true story of The Purloined Tiara, starring HRH...whoops, strike that......Meghan Sussex, playing herself.

  #3879  
Old 01-20-2020, 03:14 AM
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I Definitely believe that Meghan is going to use her marriage to a Prince to further her ambitions. I once thought she wanted to be part of the BRF but now I see I was fooled. I feel sorry for Charles and the Queen who also has to deal with the Andrew situation.
  #3880  
Old 01-20-2020, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
He seems to be putting the blame on his family rather than taking any responsibility for their own actions in this drama. I would have more respect if he had just kept his mouth shut instead of playing the victim yet again.

Yes - it started off really well when he said that he'll always love the UK. He should have just left it there, but then he had to shout his mouth off about how this wasn't what he wanted. Sorry, Harry, but no-one gets exactly what they want in life, and you've already shown the Queen enough disrespect without adding to it. Couldn't he just have said that he's pleased to be starting a new life, blah-blah-blah?


A lot of people in the UK have relatives in Canada, the USA, Australia, New Zealand or elsewhere. It's not easy, especially if there are young children, and elderly grandparents or great-grandparents who aren't up to the long flights, but the geographical distance doesn't have to destroy family relationships, especially when people have the money to make frequent visits. That depends on the family dynamics.
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