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  #3661  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Rosa Monckton, Close friends of Diana, Princess of Wales has tweeted;


https://twitter.com/moncktonr/status...434088448?s=21
Good lord, he's not dead. The first reply:

Quote:
He’ll be back. Alone
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  #3662  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Elenath View Post
I think this the incident where what people already believe shows in how they react to this. I never regarded this as a pitch, but more as a joke. I think the press regarded it as a joke as well, otherwise they would have jumped all over it last year. They use it now because it fits the current narrative and people how don't like them join in. None of us know when that deal was agreed upon, but the voice over was reportedly done at the end of last year. I wouldn't be surprised if all of this was agreed upon when Disney made a contribution to their charity.
With that video of the exec and Harry with his back turned, sure I can believe it's a joke. But that's a very specific joke to make, and a very drawn out one seeing as he made the same to two different people. For Iger to seemingly repeat it to his wife, and her reaction (I understand these last two are interpreted from the photos), to me it's clear as day, it was a pitch.
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  #3663  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post

I think Harry and Meghan are immature, frankly. I also can’t get past that they gave it less than two years. She seems to hate the UK - which can’t endear her to the British - and her seems to hate everything about the institution of the monarchy, even though it seems he’s all put out because he feels he’s been pushed out. Such a momentous decision required far more thought...
I don't find them immature as much as self-absorbed. They seem to have a sense of entitlement that is hard to dismiss.

But perhaps I see it that way because I simply can't imagine anyone hating the UK! It's one of my favorite places in the world- I visit every year, sometimes twice a year- and I just can't fathom someone not liking it as much as I do. So, I am struggling with attempting to be fair to M & H.
  #3664  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:41 AM
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I don't particularly get "Sussex Royal" as a brand name. It sounds like a hospital. Or a golf club. Or a racehorse. Or even a posh china tea service. JMHO!
  #3665  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UglyAmerican View Post
The Guardian only looked at coverage from the past 18 months. If you looked at the 15-20 years Kate's been in the public eye, there have been plenty of 18-month periods where the coverage has been mostly negative. This isn't one of them, because she's done an excellent job in role she chose to take on, and the press eventually got bored with trying to find things to criticize when there really weren't any. The same would have happened with Meghan had she behaved the same way as Kate. There were far worse things said about Camilla than about either Meghan or Kate for decades, and basically no positive coverage until fairly recently. Is it fair that marrying into the royals requires enduring that? No, but it's not unique to Meghan, and it shouldn't have come as surprise. If she was truly unaware that the press could be that bad, that's her own fault for not having bothered to look into how previous royal brides were treated by the press.
I agree. It's not right nor fair, it should not be happening, but it is the case. The press will be awful at the begining. Camilla, Sophie, Catherine showed us what it takes to survive - keep quiet and do your job, they'll stop eventually. Trying to fight it, going against the current, letting your friends speak to the press, it all creates more friction and more things for the press to write about. I think people are forgetting how bad it was for Catherine, how awful the press was to Sophie, and most importantly - what Camilla went through to marry Prince Charles. It takes a special kind of person, a special kind of love, to endure that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UglyAmerican View Post
Harry's far from blameless here, but if he'd set out with the intention of quitting the royal family because his wife didn't like it, he'd have just married Chelsy Davy or Cressida Bonas and done that to begin with. Meghan is getting blamed because she incorrectly assured him that she could handle it when, by her own words, she had no idea what would be involved. Now that he's married and has a baby, she's decided she doesn't like it anymore, and put him in a situation where he has to choose - and where there's basically no right answer. Harry's responsible for his own actions, but Meghan's responsible for creating the situation.

I'm not sure what you wanted the queen to do by way of support. Issuing public statements of support for royals being pilloried by the media for various perceived offenses against fashion and the status quo isn't the way it's done - she hasn't done it for anyone else, and if Meghan believes it should have been done for her because she's special, that's just further proof of what her detractors have said about her. It's not the queen's fault that Meghan's relatives are so much worse than Kate's or Camilla's or anyone else's. The queen isn't going to tell Thomas and Samantha Markle to stop saying mean things about Meghan, because it would be wildly inappropriate for her to publicly insert herself into someone else's family drama that doesn't involve her. Even if she did, does anyone seriously think that would have made them stop doing it? Meghan should have understood that. If she didn't, that's her own shortcoming, not the queen's.
I feel like there's some mixed messages here - in the engagement interview we got confident Meghan, ready to hit the ground running Meghan, we got Harry saying that she will be great in the job part. Yet now we get "I didn't know the press won't be fair" Meghan? What? When was the press fair to BRF? Did the treatment of Diana or Catherine seemed fair? Was Meghan's treatment in the press fair during their engagement? I don't believe she was unprepared to this extreme and I honestly feel like the "bad press" is being used as a scapegoat here, a convienient excuse for this decision.

The ground rules that BRF has are pretty clear - keep quiet, keep working, don't complain. They might offer support and reassurance in person, but they KNOW any public statement will cause more scrutiny than the lack of it. When they have that option, they take legal measures, but it requires having solid ground for the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halley View Post
So Harry will be based in Canada, with trips to the US and UK. He will have left his friends and his way of life. Let us hope that his relationship with Meghan and Archie is enough to make him happy. No. Harry has not won.
You're right, Harry didn't win. But his wife might have.
  #3666  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
W

Those precious contacts that they may be relying on may turn to dust when its realized that the Sussexes are totally divorced from the royal family business. I don't expect them to draw the crowds they used to draw as a "golden royal couple" and they'll fade away into obscurity except for the tabloids still having a field day with them. Like any celebrity, they're going to be at the mercy of public opinion even more now than they were before. They've lost the royal fishbowl and have been dumped into the ocean to fend for themselves against the sharks. They've lost more than they bargained for. I wish them well in whatever they end up doing but I do think there'll come a time where they will regret the moves they made.
People have been saying this for a week, tatht they want to make money but they may find that when they ARE divorced from the RF as is likely to happen, the rich folks don't cluster around to offer them money making opportunties so much nor to donate to their charities. The queen has shown that she can be ruthless, esp in taking away Harry's military appointments. nad I thnk that Harry and Meghan may find exile diifcult esp if they are trying to make a living but not succeeding as well as they'd hoped.
  #3667  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:47 AM
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^It might be all those things [in the future], what it won't be is a money making vehicle for the Henry, Duke of Sussex and Meghan, Duchess of Sussex
  #3668  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I don't find them immature as much as self-absorbed. They seem to have a sense of entitlement that is hard to dismiss.

But perhaps I see it that way because I simply can't imagine anyone hating the UK! It's one of my favorite places in the world- I visit every year, sometimes twice a year- and I just can't fathom someone not liking it as much as I do. So, I am struggling with attempting to be fair to M & H.
I can quite imagine her hatng the UK.. but when you marry into the head family of the UK, the one that represents the country to the world, IMO its foolish to do that without a solid knowledge of what the country is like. Even 6 months living here with Harry would have given her a decent idea of what the place is like...
  #3669  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
J


I do think, however, that the British way is more sensible. There is no point really in dropping the HRH style and not dropping Prince as a prefix either.


I justz read an article about the historical advancement of the title of prince/princess and HRH in England, Scotland and then the Uk and while there have been several rules about that over the time the main point is that the "style, title or dignity" (depends on in which time you werre considered a prince and/or HRH) is always depending on the will of the sovereign. No fulfilling the points in a letter patents can give you the title of a prince and the style a Royal Highness if the sovereign does not want it. There is no court who will grant that to you and no civil servant who will act on it. Now the queen is a rather soft lady and tend to stick to the rules of old but here she is absolutely within her rights and so at the moment noone should use the HRH for Harry and Meghan and at best forgetr about the prince/princess part as well. For HM does not want it to be used.



So this means Louise and James Wessex are not princess and prince because their grandmother did not want them to be it. Harry and Meghan are not longer HRH in everyday life, even though this is still in their background and there might be a day when HM or then King Charles want them to have it again. Who knows. But right now it's gone! And if Charles does not want Archie to be a prince and HRH he won't be. Without anything written, it's enough that Charles says it to his staff and they make it public.



I wasn't aware it was that way but the article gave lots of quotes etc.

It's on heraldica.org under British princes.
  #3670  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:52 AM
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I really don't see any of this that has gone down relating to a like or dislike of the UK. Perhaps the sticking point was the UK and its royal connotations for them would be too detrimental to starting up their own charities and foundation as a "business" rather than being connected to their royal roles. Perhaps the Canadian way of life is more appealing as it seems to give more "privacy" and "freedom to move". We have to remember too that their original plan included remaining royal and still working for the "Firm" part time.

Now as independent totally from the "Firm" and devoid of being able to use anything in connection with being "royal" in their professional lives, I think they're going to find that "privacy" and "freedom to move" turns out to be more isolating and distant than they had hoped to be. Harry's family "Firm" will go on strong even with the changes that have happened within the past year. Without the "royal" connections, as they're not allowed to use their HRH for professional ventures, they may find that without that HRH "perk" people aren't going to be that drawn to do business with them. Their "chutzpah" has severely decreased as they lose the ability to "promote" themselves as royals. They've also lost their hope of doing "part time" royal work which would have had an influence on their "private commercial" angles.

So, welcome to the "real" world Harry and Meghan. Its a dog eat dog world out there and you've chosen to wear Milkbone underwear. Lets see how that pans out for you.
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  #3671  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fem View Post
I agree. It's not right nor fair, it should not be happening, but it is the case. The press will be awful at the begining. Camilla, Sophie, Catherine showed us what it takes to survive - keep quiet and do your job, they'll stop eventually. Trying to fight it, going against the current, letting your friends speak to the press, it all creates more friction and more things for the press to write about. I think people are forgetting how bad it was for Catherine, how awful the press was to Sophie, and most importantly - what Camilla went through to marry Prince Charles. It takes a special kind of person, a special kind of love, to endure that.


I feel like there's some mixed messages here - in the engagement interview we got confident Meghan, ready to hit the ground running Meghan, we got Harry saying that she will be great in the job part. Yet now we get "I didn't know the press won't be fair" Meghan? What? When was the press fair to BRF? Did the treatment of Diana or Catherine seemed fair? Was Meghan's treatment in the press fair during their engagement? I don't believe she was unprepared to this extreme and I honestly feel like the "bad press" is being used as a scapegoat here, a convienient excuse for this decision.

The ground rules that BRF has are pretty clear - keep quiet, keep working, don't complain. They might offer support and reassurance in person, but they KNOW any public statement will cause more scrutiny than the lack of it. When they have that option, they take legal measures, but it requires having solid ground for the case.


You're right, Harry didn't win. But his wife might have.
Meghan certainly won, in the short term, at least. We'll see how this plays out over time, and I can see lots of potential trajectories.

The thing that has always annoyed me about the "evil press" narrative, is that it doesn't leave room for any personal responsibility on the part of Harry and Meghan, and I think that there were multiple points along the way where they could have positively influenced the press they were getting, or at least defused some of the criticism. It wouldn't have made the bad press go away, but it wouldn't have added oil to the fire, which their actions consistently did.

Little things, such as the imbalance in the designers Meghan chose to wear, especially to high profile events such as Trooping where she chose American or Canadian or European designers: Dior and Givenchy and Carolina Herrera. In spite of some posters here pointing out that her jewelry or handbag was British (and no doubt her underwear, too) the overall impression was not of someone who "got" the importance of the symbolic gesture. The constant whingeing to the press from Meghan's friends was not helpful, especially since many of the friends were American celebrities, and for some of those celebrities it wasn't even clear how long or how well they actually knew Meghan. The overall impression was that she was much more attached to celebrity connections than she was to acclimating to British life--which was, after all, part of the job she had taken on.

There were numerous points along the way where Harry and Meghan could have chosen differently, and they didn't, for whatever reason. That's on them, not on the tabloids. The Sussexes, and especially Meghan, as victim narrative has some elements of truth, but these are adults, supposedly media savvy, and they own some of the responsibility for how they were covered in the press, and for the choices they made.
  #3672  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post
This has been an interesting announcement to say the least...

This is what I am concerned about/want answers for:

1. What legal status is Meghan, Duchess of Sussex, a PRIVATE CITIZEN living in Canada under? Has fanboy Trudeau queue-jumped the immigration system for them?

2. Who is going to be paying for the security of these PRIVATE CITIZENS. The Canadian taxpayer better not be stuck with the bill.

3. What assets does Charles have that do not come from the Duchy of Cornwall. All his personal savings and investments come from the money he made from the Duchy.

As for the announcement, I feel like the BRF has given them enough rope to see what they do with it. If they engage in questionable money making ventures, I believe Letters Patent formally stripping them of their HRH (and possible parliamentary action taking away the peerage and position in the line of succession) are not out of the question.
Charles has more than just money from the duchy. His grandmother left him money and other assets.


LaRae
  #3673  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I agree with all of this. You’re either in or you’re out; you can’t halfway commit to the hard work the Royals do, and it seems clear that H and M were not committed. Their priorities, I hate to say, are themselves...not the BRF, not the family relationships, not the British people...but themselves. They want to make money, period...they want to be a business in and if themselves. Well, good luck I guess, but I agree with those who believe that they’ve now lost a good deal of their appeal. If this were Harry Smith and Meghan Jones, no one would care about them....


Agreed. They may do very well- but they’ve also lost some respect and good will that will be difficult- if not impossible- to get back.

There’s something a bit distasteful to me about the fact that the ONLY reason they’re in the position to make all this money is through the family they just dragged through a public and publicly embarrassing divorce. It doesn’t sit well. Without this family- no one would know their names.

Especially Meghan. She gave this less than 2 years- and could make a fortune because she married into a famous family, couldn’t or didn’t want to handle what came with it, threw a public fit with her husband- and can now profit from that. Nice. (Harry has his own responsibility in this mess, but it is a little different.)
  #3674  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Elenath View Post
People putting all the blame on her when we still don't really know that much. We don't know what happened behind closed doors and it might well be that in a number of years, we find out things weren't what we thought they are.

With the amount of vitriol she had to deal with, I would have left as well. And I'm happy HM acknowledged this in her statement. Royal family be damned, they've survived much worse than this. People are projecting their own feelings on HM, prince Philip and Prince Charles.

It's about time the Royal Family dealt with the gossip media in the UK. The old mantra doesn't work anymore.

Hear hear! Misogyny, sexism and even a little nationalism are very present.

I was very glad to see the Queen comment to the 'intense scrutiny' but I couldn't help but think if they had taken a stand back after the first tour when things went crazy if this could of all been avoided.



LaRae
  #3675  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ista View Post
Meghs it wasn't even clear how long or how well they actually knew Meghan. The overall impression was that she was much more attached to celebrity connections than she was to acclimating to British life--which was, after all, part of the job she had taken on.

There were numerous points along the way where Harry and Meghan could have chosen differently, and they didn't, for whatever reason. That's on them, not on the tabloids. The Sussexes, and especially Meghan, as victim narrative has some elements of truth, but these are adults, supposedly media savvy, and they own some of the responsibility for how they were covered in the press, and for the choices they made.
I think that s true that she came across as more attached to celebrity life.. than to her new home. And I do wonder, for goodness sake she said she did't know about the tabloids?? She thought they would be "fair"??
She was married to Harry, to a family that hates the press and knows damn well that the tabloids are there to make money and they are very tough players and are not "fair!". I said when she married H that I felt she didn't know enough about royal or British life.. after all she had only visited briefly a couple of times I gather.. mostly their relationship had been conducted in Canada...But people told me (often rather roughly) that Meg was an intelligent woman and she knew her stuff and she'd be fine as a British royal.. Clearly, she wasn't. She didn't know much... courting Harry had not been a primer in British life or Royal family goings on. And I think that, (Trying to be fair to her) life in Britian and in the RF wasn't what she had imaigned or expected and was a much rougher ride than she had expected. I would guess that she grew to hate the place, and found the RF a lot duller and stiffer than she had expected them to be.. Possibly at first with Harry by her side, it all seemed exciting meeting them and they were trying hard to be friendly..but in a little while they as they tend to do, expected her to get on with things and do her job.. and she found it stressful.. And if she tried to get away for a braek like the Baby shower, she was accused of all sorts. I do feel a bit sorry for her but I think she should have been better aware of the country... before electing to marry into the RF
  #3676  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
Agreed. They may do very well- but they’ve also lost some respect and good will that will be difficult- if not impossible- to get back.

There’s something a bit distasteful to me about the fact that the ONLY reason they’re in the position to make all this money is through the family they just dragged through a public and publicly embarrassing divorce. It doesn’t sit well. Without this family- no one would know their names.

Especially Meghan. She gave this less than 2 years- and could make a fortune because she married into a famous family, couldn’t or didn’t want to handle what came with it, threw a public fit with her husband- and can now profit from that. Nice. (Harry has his own responsibility in this mess, but it is a little different.)
But perhaps there was no point in staying longer? She is not happy here, Harry's not happy.. and they are not going to "tough it out for the sake of the monarchy" as people might have done years ago. If the queen had said "Give Royal life another few years, wait till yu've been here 5 years and then if you still hate it, you can get out..." would it have made things any better? I don't think that the 2 of them would have coped any better and in another few years, the queen will be older and re organising the work side of things will be more problematic...
  #3677  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I don't find them immature as much as self-absorbed. They seem to have a sense of entitlement that is hard to dismiss.



But perhaps I see it that way because I simply can't imagine anyone hating the UK! It's one of my favorite places in the world- I visit every year, sometimes twice a year- and I just can't fathom someone not liking it as much as I do. So, I am struggling with attempting to be fair to M & H.


I’d say they come across as a combination of immature, self- absorbed, and entitled. It’s hard to view what’s happened, and the way it’s happened, in any other way imo.

I love the UK too. I’d love the opportunity to live there. So, yes. It’s hard for me to fathom disliking it as much as Meghan seems to. I have who friends who’ve gotten to live there for work purposes and love it. Sure, they don’t have the media issue, but still.
  #3678  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:01 AM
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I hope that the next generation will be prepared better to their roles.
If Charlotte and Louis would study and then have a normal job being employed somewhere
and take part in their parents work, this could be a schedule working like other monarchies have shown aswell.
Though maybe W&K might not want their second and third child to be working for the firm and the UK goes ahead with upcoming changes to a future mode of a slimmed RF with only the heir being fulltime working with his parents to make sure the others can live a happy rather independant life.
I do not think a harsh split like this must be always, if H had not forced this and not wanted to gain financial plus, things had gone normal. So H& M 's idea mentioned on their website, carving a new role... is only about them and not a giod idea for future generations.
I hope the best for Charlotte& Louis.��

And ask myself why the british RF make such a drama far too often compared to others��
  #3679  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:03 AM
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The drama was made by Meg and Harry. They undertook a full time royal role. Perhaps in Willaims day there will be only the heir working.. and the younger children wll be completely free to work outside. But for the moment, in 2018/19 Will and harry were both considiered to be required for full time service and they undertook the job.
  #3680  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Hear hear! Misogyny, sexism and even a little nationalism are very present.

I was very glad to see the Queen comment to the 'intense scrutiny' but I couldn't help but think if they had taken a stand back after the first tour when things went crazy if this could of all been avoided.



LaRae
I agree with thinking why on earth did HM choose them for such an important thing( I suppose it to be compared to other wirk) like the CW? Did nobody realize what was going on, their immaturity......
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