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  #3101  
Old 01-18-2020, 12:57 PM
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When family is also your job/employment, I think things get sticky. Most of us have no clue what that would be like (especially from birth). I also think it's a fantasy to pretend that the Royal Family is mostly a family (and not a business/occupation/power base as well). Families do not always get along, nor should they. No one should have to remain close to their family, if that's not working for their mental health or happiness.

I think Meghan was caught up in her love and romantic view of Harry and despite all advice, there was no way for her to know what being part of this family would be like. I also think Meghan is something of an extreme individualist (hence her love for California). I also think her goal is to live at least part time in the US, which the Queen is not permitting Harry to do, as I understand it. Am I understanding that correctly?

In the end, I think Harry will do whatever he (and Meghan) want to do, regardless. Probably sooner rather than later. Harry and Meghan are at that age where young adults really want to cement their lifestyle, their own young families and overall tragectories for life. They'll want and need some sort of stability.

Right now, they really are looking like peripatetic, vagabond Royals.
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  #3102  
Old 01-18-2020, 12:58 PM
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I think that while Harry used to give an impression of being a "jolly lad" without much brain but a good heart, who enjoyed life.. perhaps underneath it he was always a mixed up messed up young man who found royal life a strain.. but tried his best with it.. And who longed for love and appreciation from the public and in private.
It’s common for kids considered class clowns to be hiding a serious side, a side full of pain - and some of them grow up to be comedians, many of whom are hiding painful private lives. Humor is often used to mask hurt. So, I think you raise a good point...
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  #3103  
Old 01-18-2020, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
And his sister Anne, who is slightly younger and his brother Edward and sister-in-law Sophie who are only in their mid 50s.
Realistically, Anne, Sophie and Edward are already IMO pretty busy. Charles is a notoriously hard working busy man.. and when he becomes King he will be at full stretch. The kents and Gloucesters may well have given up.. If he does not have the 2 sons and ideally thteir wives as well I don't see how he can muster enough people to do the job.
  #3104  
Old 01-18-2020, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
I respectively disagree. If Meghan had felt she needed the time to accustom herself to her new position, her country and her role within the institution the Queen would have been more than accommodating. Meghan stated she was ready to hit the ground running and that is what she did. That is all on her. Not the Queen.
I agree that all indications are towards Meghan being the one who wanted to 'hit the ground running'. She was pretty clear in her engagement interview and unlike other future royal brides she took on quite a few engagements during their engagement period; and while doing so, she also started working on her own project. That surely was not something that was instigated by the queen. So, yes, it's on Meghan (although I don't think this is at the heart of the issue she is having now; had she 'slowed into royal life' she would most likely have been more miserable).
  #3105  
Old 01-18-2020, 01:16 PM
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I agree that all indications are towards Meghan being the one who wanted to 'hit the ground running'. She was pretty clear in her engagement interview and unlike other future royal brides she took on quite a few engagements during their engagement period; and while doing so, she also started working on her own project. That surely was not something that was instigated by the queen. So, yes, it's on Meghan (although I don't think this is at the heart of the issue she is having now; had she 'slowed into royal life' she would most likely have been more miserable).
I think that perhaps by working she opened herself up to a lot of comments but then it is possible that if she had not done work, the tabloids would have said "where is she hiding herself?" and called her lazy. Its alos the things she did off duty, like the baby shower, the zipping off to see tennis in the USA etc..
I honestly think that perhaps she was very naïve and didn't believe she would get criticism... perhaps Im wrong. I feel that perhaps she thought that as a Royal she would be admired and if she had had negative press prior to her getting engaged to Harry, it would all disappear once she was a member of the RF? Its daft of course because the tabloids are vicious nd they are usually hostile these days to new royals... but I sort of think maybe she DID think like that?
I I
  #3106  
Old 01-18-2020, 01:20 PM
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Just to throw another topic in here. It is just my opinion, but I think the reason that Meghan chose to return to Canada is that custody laws are much different here. For instance, if Harry and Meghan separate in the UK, Harry is likely to retain custody of his son, whereas in Canada, Meghan would likely get custody.

Yes, there is joint custody but even in the case of Charles and Diana, her lawyer had to fight for her to have joint custody and she could not live in another country with her sons.
  #3107  
Old 01-18-2020, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I think that perhaps by working she opened herself up to a lot of comments but then it is possible that if she had not done work, the tabloids would have said "where is she hiding herself?" and called her lazy. Its alos the things she did off duty, like the baby shower, the zipping off to see tennis in the USA etc..
I honestly think that perhaps she was very naïve and didn't believe she would get criticism... perhaps Im wrong. I feel that perhaps she thought that as a Royal she would be admired and if she had had negative press prior to her getting engaged to Harry, it would all disappear once she was a member of the RF? Its daft of course because the tabloids are vicious nd they are usually hostile these days to new royals... but I sort of think maybe she DID think like that?
I I
I don't think the press would have been much different whether she was working or not (looking back, it seems that the positive press that she got was mostly for doing royal work); my concern was with Meghan herself being deeply unhappy if she had not been allowed to do all kinds of different things but just had been allowed to 'learn being a princess/duchess'; she would have felt even more 'encaved' (or even 'imprisoned').
  #3108  
Old 01-18-2020, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
I think a few salient points are being missed in the Meghan should have had more time to adjust before being thrown in head first debate.

Harry was born famous and has spent his life resenting the attention. Meghan was born a nobody and has spent her lifeseeking fame and attention. Meghan is an actress. She is a seasoned pro in front of the cameras and crowds and she is natural and experienced speaker. She wanted to “hit the ground running” and why wouldn’t she? She married into the most famous family in the world and was now the center of world attention. No television or movie role in the universe could eclipse this platform of fame. There was NO way she was going to sit on the sidelines and miss her spotlight. Mr. De Mille she was not only ready for the camera, she didn’t need you to direct her. Step aside.

Meghan’s problem within this institution isn’t the media negativity. It’s the structure and the limitations of her role in it. I think she considers herself and Harry as progressive Superstars, and she expected to be put front and center in modernizing the monarchy and bringing their causes front and center. I really don’t think she ever considered that she was only going to be a minor player on a much larger stage with more important players. Always having to stand or walk behind other family members and not being front and center wasn’t going to work for her. It was doomed from the get go because the Queen, Prince Charles, William and George were the real stars of this show. Harry and Meghan are support cast, which is not the role she had signed up for. The fact that Meghan doesn’t understand the monarchy, the country or the history and traditions is clear. Nor does she care to.

Bottom line is I don’t for a moment believe Meghan was thrown into the role before she was ready or that the media intrusion, racial slurs or protection for their Son was the the reasons they want to step back or leave. I believe they want a larger role in the world stage and they want to direct it, star in it and reap the financial rewards from their adoring public. Being a mere Royal isn’t enough. They want it all....or at least Meghan does. I believe Harry just wants to make her happy but at the cost of making others unhappy.

My two cents for what it’s worth.
I agree. Meghan has been a rule breaker from the time she was a kid, writing in to get that commercial changed,....and GOOD for her, that was awesome ! However, no one asked her to modernize the monarchy - and anyway, the Queen has done that pretty well, I think. She got rid of that ludicrous primogeniture “law”, the Royals now are internet savvy, etc..Nothing that Meghan can do, IMO, can top the first thing - that’s literally changing one thousand years of history.

Meghan wants to be a force for good, and that’s great, but as a member of the BRF, she’s got to do it while “playing the game” - and she wasn’t interested in doing that. Prince Philip must have really loved Princess Elizabeth if he gave up everything for her - and of course, he did. He didn’t just give up his Naval career, he’s had to spend his life walking behind his wife. Many people in this family have given up many things. George VI had kingship thrust upon him, which ultimately shortened his life. Actually he’s a perfect example for Harry - poor Bertie wasn’t temperamentally suited for such a public role, but his own natural decency and goodness were aided immensely by his wonderful family life. Queen Elizabeth (not yet the Queen Mother, of course) was firmly behind him, supported him, was strong when he needed her to be. Of course he had his darling little girls ...Harry isn’t even at all a similar position to Bertie; he doesn’t have any of the responsibilities and pressures. Yet, a stable family life could have helped him immeasurably....if he’d given it a chance.

More in those who sacrificed - his own parents. Now if they hadn’t, we wouldn’t have William and Harry, but Charles and Diana knew they weren’t suited for each other, but they married anyway because it was expected of them. Their search for happiness ended up in pain and upheaval that no one wanted. I could go on, but my point has been made. Given the sacrifices so many have made, why couldn’t he truly give this a go? Why couldn’t he have privately asked for maybe a few less engagements if that’s what he needed? His father and grandmother would have listened, as they have done now, and tried to make it work. Instead, Harry and Meghan just did what they wanted, and didn’t give a darn about anyone else
  #3109  
Old 01-18-2020, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Realistically, Anne, Sophie and Edward are already IMO pretty busy. Charles is a notoriously hard working busy man.. and when he becomes King he will be at full stretch. The kents and Gloucesters may well have given up.. If he does not have the 2 sons and ideally thteir wives as well I don't see how he can muster enough people to do the job.
The Duke of Gloucester is only 4 years older than Charles. I think as long as he continues to be healthy he will stay on during Charles’s reign. But, yes, the number of people will be more limited.

In 1952, the Queen had exactly who working? Herself, her husband, her mother, the current Duke of Gloucester’s parents. Maybe Princess Marina.
  #3110  
Old 01-18-2020, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
She married into the most famous family in the world and was now the center of world attention. No television or movie role in the universe could eclipse this platform of fame. There was NO way she was going to sit on the sidelines and miss her spotlight. Mr. De Mille she was not only ready for the camera, she didn’t need you to direct her. Step aside.

Meghan’s problem within this institution isn’t the media negativity. It’s the structure and the limitations of her role in it. I think she considers herself and Harry as progressive Superstars, and she expected to be put front and center in modernizing the monarchy and bringing their causes front and center. I really don’t think she ever considered that she was only going to be a minor player on a much larger stage with more important players. Always having to stand or walk behind other family members and not being front and center wasn’t going to work for her. It was doomed from the get go because the Queen, Prince Charles, William and George were the real stars of this show. Harry and Meghan are support cast, which is not the role she had signed up for. The fact that Meghan doesn’t understand the monarchy, the country or the history and traditions is clear. Nor does she care to.
I really think this all sums it up rather nicely. You know, there are some people in the world who are able to compartmentalize things and as such, are able to put things into a box and seal it off when they're finished with it. I'm not one of these people and I admit that I'm often baffled as to how that works for people who are able to. However, my husband is somewhat like this and admittedly, it's caused problems over the years. I really believe that Meghan is one of these people. She's all in when something is working for her or useful for her. When it's no longer working for her or useful to her she seals the box and stores it away and is on to the next thing. Her life even before Harry does seem to be a series of these boxes and this is no different now. She tried it out, it wasn't what she thought it would be but she's benefitted from it all, and now she's sealed that box and is off to the next phase.
  #3111  
Old 01-18-2020, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Lori138 View Post
Just to throw another topic in here. It is just my opinion, but I think the reason that Meghan chose to return to Canada is that custody laws are much different here. For instance, if Harry and Meghan separate in the UK, Harry is likely to retain custody of his son, whereas in Canada, Meghan would likely get custody.

Yes, there is joint custody but even in the case of Charles and Diana, her lawyer had to fight for her to have joint custody and she could not live in another country with her sons.
This is a good point and one I've wondered about as well. However, since they're technically just "visiting" in Canada and neither are citizens would it matter legally what Canada's laws are regarding custody? I'm not being snarky, I just genuinely don't know. But I do wonder if potential custody issues might have at least been in the back of her mind when she chose to leave Archie in Canada while she returned to the UK for a short few days and when she immediately left to return to Canada while leaving Harry to go it alone in the UK.
  #3112  
Old 01-18-2020, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I think that perhaps by working she opened herself up to a lot of comments but then it is possible that if she had not done work, the tabloids would have said "where is she hiding herself?" and called her lazy. Its alos the things she did off duty, like the baby shower, the zipping off to see tennis in the USA etc..
I honestly think that perhaps she was very naïve and didn't believe she would get criticism... perhaps Im wrong. I feel that perhaps she thought that as a Royal she would be admired and if she had had negative press prior to her getting engaged to Harry, it would all disappear once she was a member of the RF? Its daft of course because the tabloids are vicious nd they are usually hostile these days to new royals... but I sort of think maybe she DID think like that?
Yes I think she had a massive shock when she received that volume of negative press (much of it lies). Even more of a shock perhaps was that the BRF didn't step up & call it out so she felt unsupported.

I agree the press would have called her lazy if she'd done very little work, which is why I've said before that she could have done a lot of joint visits, supporting Harry mainly but also with others. She'd have shown she's willing to work without taking on her own projects until she'd become more familiar with the role & the public had become more used to seeing her as a BRF member. She'd have still had ridiculously petty & some vitriolic press because that's what they do but she would have been able to bank a lot of public respect.
  #3113  
Old 01-18-2020, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
This is a good point and one I've wondered about as well. However, since they're technically just "visiting" in Canada and neither are citizens would it matter legally what Canada's laws are regarding custody? I'm not being snarky, I just genuinely don't know. But I do wonder if potential custody issues might have at least been in the back of her mind when she chose to leave Archie in Canada while she returned to the UK for a short few days and when she immediately left to return to Canada while leaving Harry to go it alone in the UK.
I've never heard that "Diana's lawyers had to fight for her for custody". The queen had over all custody of the boys but she was not going to take them from Diana. And I doubt if meghan would want to deprive Harry of custody of his son, even if they split up. I think that leaving Archie was more of an excuse to go back to Can soon, and it did leave poor Harry having to do the arguing with the RF on his own without her being nearby...
  #3114  
Old 01-18-2020, 01:42 PM
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Yes I think she had a massive shock when she received that volume of negative press (much of it lies). Even more of a shock perhaps was that the BRF didn't step up & call it out so she felt unsupported.

I agree the press would have called her lazy if she'd done very little work, which is why I've said before that she could have done a lot of joint visits, supporting Harry mainly but also with others. She'd have shown she's willing to work without taking on her own projects until she'd become more familiar with the role & the public had become more used to seeing her as a BRF member. She'd have still had ridiculously petty & some vitriolic press because that's what they do but she would have been able to bank a lot of public respect.
Your first paragraph tells me that Harry didn’t adequately prepare Meghan for life with the media, but more importantly it tells me that she’s too concerned with what the media says - Harry as well. She’s not the only one who has had nasty, vicious, and at times vulgar press coverage - Charles and Camilla are good examples, though lord knows not the only ones. If they’d paid any attention to the media - or cared about what was printed- they’d never have gotten in with their lives. If Charles had been debilitated by the press coverage during the Diana years, he’d have never been able to be the remarkable PoW he is. If Meghan expected to be publicly supported by the BRF, then she didn’t do her research, didn’t ask the right questions...and that’s on HER. I’m sure she was offered support in private, but I’m guessing she just didn’t recognize it..
  #3115  
Old 01-18-2020, 01:43 PM
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Yes I think she had a massive shock when she received that volume of negative press (much of it lies). Even more of a shock perhaps was that the BRF didn't step up & call it out so she felt unsupported.

I agree the press would have called her lazy if she'd done very little work, which is why I've said before that she could have done a lot of joint visits, supporting Harry mainly but also with others. She'd have shown she's willing to work without taking on her own projects until she'd become more familiar with the role & the public had become more used to seeing her as a BRF member. She'd have still had ridiculously petty & some vitriolic press because that's what they do but she would have been able to bank a lot of public respect.
But the RF don't usually do that, unless things are very bad, it doesn't really do any good.. trying to fight with the Press. I think they take the view that the bet thing royals can do is not read the tabloids and avoid the sort of stuff that they print. don't listen to it and get on with the job. Hard but sometimes better than fighting. I think that some of the criticism she got over the baby shower was her own fault.. it didn't look good, and I think it began to make her look like a pampered celeb to the public.
  #3116  
Old 01-18-2020, 01:48 PM
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I still can't help but be struck by how much more relaxed Harry has seemed over the last three years when Meghan hasn't been with him. On engagements he's done alone he seemed much more relaxed than on joint engagements. I was particularly struck by how relaxed and happy he seemed at the Anzac Day service that he attended last spring with Kate. Even at Lady Gabriella's wedding he seemed quite relaxed and happy. For me it's a stark contrast to the engagements when they've been together and he's appeared tense, moody, unsmiling, and stressed, especially at the last Trooping but that's certainly not the only time. There's an article making the tabloid rounds this morning about Harry being out for dinner and drinks last night with his friends and how he was laughing and joking and seemed just like any other guy out with friends. It's a tabloid article so who knows whether it's true or not but if it is, it just speaks to how much more relaxed he appears to be when they aren't together.
  #3117  
Old 01-18-2020, 01:56 PM
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Your first paragraph tells me that Harry didn’t adequately prepare Meghan for life with the media, but more importantly it tells me that she’s too concerned with what the media says - Harry as well. She’s not the only one who has had nasty, vicious, and at times vulgar press coverage - Charles and Camilla are good examples, though lord knows not the only ones. If they’d paid any attention to the media - or cared about what was printed- they’d never have gotten in with their lives. If Charles had been debilitated by the press coverage during the Diana years, he’d have never been able to be the remarkable PoW he is. If Meghan expected to be publicly supported by the BRF, then she didn’t do her research, didn’t ask the right questions...and that’s on HER. I’m sure she was offered support in private, but I’m guessing she just didn’t recognize it..
Love is blind (and deaf) as most of us could testify I expect.

Meghan might have been told & didn't listen or grasp it or Harry might have been so desperate to keep her that he didn't tell her the worst. Others might have tried but people in love often feel invincible "We'll face & conquer all adversity together" etc.

Meghan said recently that she knew the press would write about her but she thought they'd be fair so it's clear to me that she hadn't been shown the very unfair (& often untrue) things written about Catherine (& her mother). The volume & strength of it has been even worse for Meghan so at times, it must have felt like an avalanche of hate raining down on her.
  #3118  
Old 01-18-2020, 02:05 PM
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Love is blind (and deaf) as most of us could testify I expect.

Meghan might have been told & didn't listen or grasp it or Harry might have been so desperate to keep her that he didn't tell her the worst. Others might have tried but people in love often feel invincible "We'll face & conquer all adversity together" etc.

Meghan said recently that she knew the press would write about her but she thought they'd be fair so it's clear to me that she hadn't been shown the very unfair (& often untrue) things written about Catherine (& her mother). The volume & strength of it has been even worse for Meghan so at times, it must have felt like an avalanche of hate raining down on her.
The media in general will never be fair even if some are because there are too many (not everyone) out for the big headlines and fanfare..I'm referring to the press in America, as well. Maybe she wasn't a big enough star (well actually, she really wasn't a star, period) to have fallen on the wrong side of the tabloids - it's not like anyone really paid attention to Suits.

Here's another article that raises some valid points. I'll be honest -I really resent H and M's desire to engage only with "young, up-and-coming" journalists. It's age-ist in the extreme.

Quote:
Meghan in particular has had a rough ride since joining the firm. And carefully selected comparisons between stories about her and Kate Middleton highlight a double standard (“Pregnant Kate tenderly cradles her baby bump”... ”Why can’t Meghan Markle keep her hands off her bump?”) But it’s worth also recalling the broad adulation that has greeted the couple. The royal rota is part of a machine that is, if anything, geared to fawn over its subjects. The British front pages were a saccharine sea of acclaim after Harry and Meghan’s wedding. Only three days before their October attack on the press, the same newspapers were celebrating the couple’s tour of southern Africa as an unbridled triumph.

....

There is—inevitably—a certain rallying among a media that is itself rightly facing scrutiny. But the question remains: will this new approach succeed? “Edward and Mrs Simpson were still the object of public fascination,” Palmer says. Edward VIII, after all, married an American and stepped back from the royal family before it was cool. And it was also before the internet; ditching the royal rota and fleeing to North America won’t calm the wild west that is much of the web. Moreover, libel laws allow American news and gossip sites to say and allege more than the British media dares.

“I know several LA-based paps who are already digging out their duvet jackets and planning to relocate to Canada," Ian Kirby, a former tabloid political editor at a large London PR firm, told PR Week, an industry journal. The royal rota also makes it easier for the Sussexes to promote good causes, he added.

Nina Sawetz, managing director of Future, another PR firm, put it this way: "By detaching themselves from the Royal Family, they also detach themselves from the power, protection and authority the Royals have when they need it… Their desire for more control over press coverage is admirable, but I think they'll find quite quickly that they've actually given the press even more freedom."

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/so...safety-canada/
  #3119  
Old 01-18-2020, 02:06 PM
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How can you be sure of that? I don't say she forced a reluctant Meghan, but I think that she was more than willing to get her onto the work rota.. I think that she was more easy going about Kate and other royal brides.. but now, time IS running short. In a few years, the queen Will be very old or have passed away.. Charles will be in charge, and he has a cadre of older support royals who are likely to be retiring or ill or passing away too. He has lost Andrew... so all he has realistically is his 2 boys and their wives...
I can be sure based on the fact that Harry was conducting his duties “singularly” just find before Meghan came along and he could have continued if Meghan felt she wasn’t ready. I can be sure because the Queen does not need to “rush” anyone that is a supportive member into positions they are not ready for or unwilling to take on because of her age. She only needs to ensure that her heirs are ready and that the institution is sound and will carry on when she is gone. She has done her best and it is now up to Charles and then William to carry on from here.

I don’t see Ann retiring from anything anytime soon. She has an incredible work ethic and sense of duty, and like her mother she will continue until she isn’t able. Edward is quite a bit younger than Charles and still has many years ahead to serve. She didn’t raise quitters or whiners. With the exception of Andrew, they will carry on her legacy.
  #3120  
Old 01-18-2020, 02:10 PM
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The idea that Meghan was not aware of the media intrusion does not fly with me:

1. We have an article from a former business associate who says she warned her about the media and was ignored.

2. Many media sources have claimed that she followed Diana's press coverage in the 90's very intently. If true, there is no way she did not notice how her later MIL was hounded by the press on a daily basis.

3. She is an actress. She is well aware of media coverage (including constant paparazzi intrusion) that high profile celebrities get.

I can buy that she choose to ignore them believing that she would somehow be immune but do not try to tell me that she was unaware of media interest like a doe-eyed teenager would have been.
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