The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[Erin9]

Originally Posted by duchessrachel

It is interesting learning how one of their friends feels about the Sussex's decision. I suspect the rest of them feel the same way.

I was really surprised to see that. Shocked. I think that’s a first- or close to a first- from any of William and Harry’s close friends. And she’s been friends with both of them.

That she removed it from Instagram quickly may well speak to the fact she realized it was a bad idea. But- she made her feelings clear.

Is it just me- or did it seem slightly more aimed at Meghan? The part about yoga seemed so directed at her. It was kind of generic until that jab.

[duchessrachel]

Originally Posted by Missjersey

Oh boy, do I agree with all you said.

The pictures.......you’re spot on. I saw the pic of Harry in the car which looked like he was using or looking at his phone and thought to myself, she’s making sure you told them bah, blah, blah, jmo.

I respect all the different opinions on the forum and understand “wait and see”, but I do think the day will come when Meghan will blindside Harry.

I could not agree more. Who would have ever imagined this "stepping back" coming less than two years after their marriage. I remember during their engagement interview she expressed excited over the work she would get to do as a member of the RF. She was ready to "hit the ground running". Meghan said one time, before she met Harry, that she would like for charity work to be her main focus and acting second. However, I believe she wants to do the charity work she wants, and not necessarily what the RF would like for her to do. Having married Harry she is world famous and has a title. The first thing she does when she gets back to Canada, leaving Harry in the UK, is a charity visit. "If" she gets the kind of deal she wants from the RF during this transition period, I believe Harry's usefulness to her will run out at some point, and she will blindside him. The sad thing is that I am afraid Harry does not even see it coming. What is scary to me, is what is going to happen if she does not get the deal she wants during these negotiations that are currently going on. All of this is JMHO.

Originally Posted by wyevale

I think Meghan Markle recognised in Harry a Man 'discontented with his lot' in life, looking enviously at the family life his brother enjoyed with his wife and young family, and saw [clearly] that this man, with a global reach she has LONG desired, [but not independently achieved] could provide her with that fame, and 'Global platform'..

He was 'ripe for the picking'.

Now she has the Title, the platform, the child, what need has she of him any more ?

Oh my goodness!! I just stated the same thing in a post below, and then I saw yours. We are thinking the same thing.

Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile

Rose and Hugh van Cutsem's daughter Grace was a bridesmaid in William & Kate's wedding. Grace's first cousin, Florence (daughter of Hugh's brother Nicholas and his wife Alice) was a bridesmaid in Harry & Meghan's wedding.

So, I don't see how anyone could argue that they are not really friends.

I find Rose's post...interesting.

"Verrrrrrrryyy interesting"--Arte Johnson

[_Heather_]

Originally Posted by Erin9

I was really surprised to see that. Shocked. I think that’s a first- or close to a first- from any of William and Harry’s close friends. And she’s been friends with both of them.

That she removed it from Instagram quickly may well speak to the fact she realized it was a bad idea. But- she made her feelings clear.

Is it just me- or did it seem slightly more aimed at Meghan? The part about yoga seemed so directed at her. It was kind of generic until that jab.

That's exactly how I felt about it. Yes, she then posted some response or jab at the DM but the post was already out there. And that response read very much like she was angry or embarrassed or maybe both that they had caught it and published an article about it. I would agree, though, that the whole "spend time with my friends, drink coffee, do yoga" bit seemed pretty directed. Especially after the pictures we've seen of Meghan over the last couple of days.

[Countessmeout]

Let’s try this again as it seems my last post wasn’t read

https://www.instagram.com/p/B7afFbqgRBA/?hl=en

Rose made a second post on Instagram in response to the DM article.

For all those commenting about a friend speaking. And this proof Meghan alienated him from everyone.

[duchessrachel]

Originally Posted by DuchessMia

Harry’s own brother was allowed to be a part-time royal for a number of years so as to ensure the success of his marriage and family. I’m still not sure why Harry asking for the same consideration, plus the opportunity to be financially independent, is causing all this angst. Harry is placing his family first. Just as others have done.

William and Kate did this at the beginning of their marriage. Meghan said in the engagement interview that she was ready to "hit the ground running" when it came to doing work. They seemed ready to jump right in. I think that if they had told the Queen when the got engaged that they needed time to adjust before becoming full time, I feel sure she would have given it to them. But now, they have commitments and charities who are worried about their support. It is hard to un-ring the bell.

Originally Posted by Erin9

I was really surprised to see that. Shocked. I think that’s a first- or close to a first- from any of William and Harry’s close friends. And she’s been friends with both of them.

That she removed it from Instagram quickly may well speak to the fact she realized it was a bad idea. But- she made her feelings clear.

Is it just me- or did it seem slightly more aimed at Meghan? The part about yoga seemed so directed at her. It was kind of generic until that jab.

It most definitely had to be aimed at Meghan. That just makes me believe that if friends feel this way about her, then the RF is most definitely have the same perception. This makes me think she and Harry won't get the deal they want.

[ACO]

Originally Posted by duchessrachel

It most definitely had to be aimed at Meghan. That just makes me believe that if friends feel this way about her, then the RF is most definitely have the same perception. This makes me think she and Harry won't get the deal they want.

Rose literally posted twice on her IG saying otherwise and yet people chose to ignore it for whatever reason because I guess the alternative is a better story. This is exactly why these papers do what they do.

It also doesn't matter that that business man denied that was his home. The papers still claiming it is and linking him to it. So honestly we just saying facts no longer matter and theirs people's own words mean nothing?

[King of the Jungle]

Also, one huge difference was that William's civil workload, training and royal roles were announced officially after the plans were carefully worked out with the Queen.
Probably, Harry and Meghan's needs could have been met, without shock and uproar, had they co-operated patiently with Buckingham Palace.

Do you think the amount of private income that Harry and Meghan hope to generate (or that they might not intend to donate earnings back to charity) was a conflicting factor in discussions initially? Or perhaps the fact that they wish to live for months, not weeks, abroad?

The actual package that Harry wants will be interesting when the final plan is released.
It could be positive; here's hoping!

[Missjersey]

Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile

I think if it had been said they wanted to start a family and have Meghan adjust to all the changes in her life for a couple years as she learned her role, there would have been understanding.

Indeed.

I remember immediately after the engagement interview we were all discussing how they were going to hit the ground running. I just never thought it would be to Canada.

[Missjersey]

Originally Posted by duchessrachel

I could not agree more. Who would have ever imagined this "stepping back" coming less than two years after their marriage. I remember during their engagement interview she expressed excited over the work she would get to do as a member of the RF. She was ready to "hit the ground running". Meghan said one time, before she met Harry, that she would like for charity work to be her main focus and acting second. However, I believe she wants to do the charity work she wants, and not necessarily what the RF would like for her to do. Having married Harry she is world famous and has a title. The first thing she does when she gets back to Canada, leaving Harry in the UK, is a charity visit. "If" she gets the kind of deal she wants from the RF during this transition period, I believe Harry's usefulness to her will run out at some point, and she will blindside him. The sad thing is that I am afraid Harry does not even see it coming. What is scary to me, is what is going to happen if she does not get the deal she wants during these negotiations that are currently going on. All of this is JMHO.

And that could very well be a sticking point...

[PrincessKaimi]

Originally Posted by Betsypaige

Meghan’s ex-friend and business partner wrote recently about how she expressed concern to Meghan about marrying unto the BRF and the completely different lifestyle that requires...and Meghan apparently cut her off, said something to the effect that “I’m happy now” and that was it.....Meghan cut this woman out of her life. Sound familiar ?

Many of the media, who seem to personally like Harry, describe him as mercurial - so how he feels and acts may change from day to day. If he cuts himself off from his family, I’ve no doubt he’ll regret it. Of course there are phones and other ways to communicate with loved ones, but to paraphrase a famous line, “the BRF are not like you and me”. Is Harry going to just pick up the phone and call his father when he’s not used to doing that (I’m basing this on what I’ve read about how Royals communicate with each other )? Will he do that for the Queen? Philip? William ? The same goes vice versa..

What a shame that Harry has cut himself off from his friends ...he’s really isolated himself from everyone who loves him

Are you sure she "cut off" the woman? Perhaps merely distanced herself from someone who is a little too nosey? How can we know?

I do not think Harry was seeing his family members day to day, most royals don't. He will likely miss some family occasions but, as others have done, he can then go home to visit. Lots and lots of Americans prefer living a bit away from their extended family.

I'm pretty sure Archie and Meghan love Harry.

[Betsypaige]

I'm pretty sure Archie and Meghan love Harry

.

You’re taking me way too literally....In any case, what about his father? Brother? Grandparents? Aunts and uncles ? His extended family?

Originally Posted by Missjersey

Indeed.

I remember immediately after the engagement interview we were all discussing how they were going to hit the ground running. I just never thought it would be to Canada.

They meant to say “hit the ground running....away”!

Also, one huge difference was that William's civil workload, training and royal roles were announced officially after the plans were carefully worked out with the Queen.
Probably, Harry and Meghan's needs could have been met, without shock and uproar, had they co-operated patiently with Buckingham Palace.

Do you think the amount of private income that Harry and Meghan hope to generate (or that they might not intend to donate earnings back to charity) was a conflicting factor in discussions initially? Or perhaps the fact that they wish to live for months, not weeks, abroad?

The actual package that Harry wants will be interesting when the final plan is released.
It could be positive; here's hoping!

I’m sure everything was a complicating factor, but IF they had been patient, things would have worked out as everyone wanted them to be happy. But. no, they had to act like spoiled five year olds.... they had to act like Veruca Salt :

I want the world
I want the whole world
I want to lock it
All up in my pocket
It's my bar of chocolate
Give it to me now

I want today
I want tomorrow
I want to wear 'em
Like braids in my hair and
I don't want to share 'em

I want a party with roomfuls of laughter
Ten thousand tons of ice cream
And if I don't get the things I am after
I'm going to scream

And now

Don't care how, I want it now
Don't care how, I want it nooooooooooooow

[Lee-Z]

imo they had not intended it and if they had sought the collaboration with the BRF they would have had a much better chance of getting what they wanted (imo helping on some royal engagements, but less than before and with more freedom to choose, esp. financially) with less amount of media fuss (which they also want (or so they say..they don't always act like it imo))

but the way they handled it...they indeed come across as 2 "Veruca Salt"'s...

Did they honestly not see that coming? Or did they see it but don't care?
Did noone advice them? Or did they get advice but choose not to listen?

On the one hand I'd like to know, on the other I'd like nothing better than the BRF and H&M arranging things behind closed doors and everyone going their own paths without much further explaining or complaining.
And hopefully for them as a family their paths will still cross from time to time..

[Alison H]

No-one needs to be a British citizen to be HRH. It's only in the last century that it's become usual for British citizens to marry into the Royal Family at all - and only in the last generation that the issue of divorce arose, so that's all pretty new.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Alison H

[...] It's only in the last century that it's become usual for British citizens to marry into the Royal Family at all - [...]

Before January 1, 1983, the law gave foreign women marrying British men the right to British citizenship. As a result, women marrying into the Royal Family may not have been British citizens prior to marriage, but they became British citizens upon marriage.

British Nationality Act 1948
British Nationality Act 1981

As this did not cover foreign men marrying British women, naturalization procedures were used for the men who married into the Royal Family, including Prince Philip of Greece before his marriage.

[wartenberg7]

Originally Posted by Betsypaige

Wow...what a shame that she wasn’t speaking to her mother - I didn’t know that. Of course friendships can end for various reasons, but cutting people off completely on a regular basis seems rather rough...

Princess Diana and her mother Frances had a very troubled relationship (not from the surface or in public, of course) because the mother left the family for another man. It was THE scandal in the british aristocracy in the late 1960s.
Since then, feeling obliged to take care of her even younger brother when Diana herself was in urgend need of comfort and care, she felt lonely, betrayed and let down - actually for the rest of her life - and took this into her later relationships/ friendships and, yes, marriage. I´m sure that experience was something that, deep down in her, she was never to forgive her mother, who left her beloved father.
Perhaps family history repeats itself a bit here when it comes to Harry in a modified male version of a "family pattern"? May be Harry is "mummy´s boy" when it comes to dropping friends who do not act like he expects, too? I also admired P Charles, William and Harry for getting along so well after all what happened in the early 1990s. But perhaps that´s just one side of the story.

[poppy7]

Originally Posted by wartenberg7

Princess Diana and her mother Frances had a very troubled relationship (not from the surface or in public, of course) because the mother left the family for another man. It was THE scandal in the british aristocracy in the late 1960s.
Since then, feeling obliged to take care of her even younger brother when Diana herself was in urgend need of comfort and care, she felt lonely, betrayed and let down - actually for the rest of her life - and took this into her later relationships/ friendships and, yes, marriage. I´m sure that experience was something that, deep down in her, she was never to forgive her mother, who left her beloved father.
Perhaps family history repeats itself a bit here when it comes to Harry in a modified male version of a "family pattern"? May be Harry is "mummy´s boy" when it comes to dropping friends who do not act like he expects, too? I also admired P Charles, William and Harry for getting along so well after all what happened in the early 1990s. But perhaps that´s just one side of the story.

It is way way more complex than that. Diana's father was an abusive man and her mother was basically sold into marriage. Much like her daughter would be. Earl Spencer treated her appallingly and she eventually left. Taking Diana and Charles with her. They would visit their father of course and on one such visit he refused to give them back. There was a custody hearing. Her own mother testified against her and the law showed good and proper that children were the property of their father especially when he has money and influence. Diana's anger in what was a traumatic childhood spread everywhere. She hated her stepmother. She dropped friends for disagreeing with her. At the time of her death, she was talking to her stepmother. But not to her brother, mother or sister Jane. Her father was of course dead. If Diana adored her father it was misplaced loyalty and I think we can only begin to understand how traumatised she was. Her brother too whose personal life has been rocky. She needed some much to find a loving, older partner with patience and time to help her heal and manage her difficulties. She didn't get that. Harry seems very very similar if it is to be believed he has cut off people. Who will he have Eugenie?

[Lumutqueen]

Please may I just put an FYI out there, this is by no means directed at anyone in particular but is just for everyone.

I know when threads get super long, and with our different time zones, you may join a thread and have up to 20 pages to read and you end up finding 6 or 7 posts that you want to comment on. Commenting on them all individually means that your posts alone can take up an entire page. On the app, this thread is currently at 300+ pages.

There's a button between QUOTE and the speech bubble that looks like "", if you click this when you find a post you like it will automatically queue it into a reply post for you. When you get to the last post you want to quote, you press the QUOTE button and all the posts you wanted to reply to will be there.

Like I said this is just a general FYI as I know a couple of posters were talking about it yesterday.

[Kataryn]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

Before January 1, 1983, the law gave foreign women marrying British men the right to British citizenship. As a result, women marrying into the Royal Family may not have been British citizens prior to marriage, but they became British citizens upon marriage.

British Nationality Act 1948
British Nationality Act 1981

As this did not cover foreign men marrying British women, naturalization procedures were used for the men who married into the Royal Family, including Prince Philip of Greece before his marriage.

Philipp was a Briton as a descendant of the electress Sophia, but the law was so old that noone remembered it! LOL. That is changed now, too.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by DuchessMia

Harry’s own brother was allowed to be a part-time royal for a number of years so as to ensure the success of his marriage and family. I’m still not sure why Harry asking for the same consideration, plus the opportunity to be financially independent, is causing all this angst. Harry is placing his family first. Just as others have done.

Because it is completely different. William wanted to have a few years, in his earlier 30s to do a normal job and spend time with his kids while they were little. He never asked to go and live abroad, or to look for an independent income. He knew that he couldn't do that. When he had his time as a pilot, the queen and all her helpers were a bit younger, Philip was still working and it was possible for him to have some "normal life" time. Harry married when Phil had retired, the queen's now a very old lady, and the other royals who work for the Firm are all getting older.
He had had some years of freedom in the Amry and now was expected to be a fulltime Royal with the important role of Commonwealth prince... If he had issues with it, that was the time to say "Sorry Granny, I can't take on the full time royal Role.. I want to spend time with Meg and our kids and we need to earn our own money so that will mean I can only do a very part time job and maybe I'll want to live abroad as well...."
It would not be easy, to rearrange things, as I Think Charles si very reluctant to use cousins and siblings' children because it means he (AND William) will end up payng for them for the rest of their lives.. so he has hoped to do the job with the Aid of his 2 sons and their wives... It not like Ch and the queen can put an advert out for a "commonwealth Prince " or "Patron who wil cover X charities"... It CAN Be done that they can rearrange things if Harry goes, but it will take time nad wont be easy.
Harry knew this was his destiny.. I don't think he liked it but if he was willing to work at the Royal job, that was a commitment he made before and from the time of his marriage...
He knew that he and Meghan were on the full time royal roster, from ealry on.. Kate didn't do many engagements in the first years but Meghan was drafted in, early on.. and she wanted herself to "hit the ground running"....

[Betsypaige]

Originally Posted by wartenberg7

Princess Diana and her mother Frances had a very troubled relationship (not from the surface or in public, of course) because the mother left the family for another man. It was THE scandal in the british aristocracy in the late 1960s.
Since then, feeling obliged to take care of her even younger brother when Diana herself was in urgend need of comfort and care, she felt lonely, betrayed and let down - actually for the rest of her life - and took this into her later relationships/ friendships and, yes, marriage. I´m sure that experience was something that, deep down in her, she was never to forgive her mother, who left her beloved father.
Perhaps family history repeats itself a bit here when it comes to Harry in a modified male version of a "family pattern"? May be Harry is "mummy´s boy" when it comes to dropping friends who do not act like he expects, too? I also admired P Charles, William and Harry for getting along so well after all what happened in the early 1990s. But perhaps that´s just one side of the story.

It is way way more complex than that. Diana's father was an abusive man and her mother was basically sold into marriage. Much like her daughter would be. Earl Spencer treated her appallingly and she eventually left. Taking Diana and Charles with her. They would visit their father of course and on one such visit he refused to give them back. There was a custody hearing. Her own mother testified against her and the law showed good and proper that children were the property of their father especially when he has money and influence. Diana's anger in what was a traumatic childhood spread everywhere. She hated her stepmother. She dropped friends for disagreeing with her. At the time of her death, she was talking to her stepmother. But not to her brother, mother or sister Jane. Her father was of course dead. If Diana adored her father it was misplaced loyalty and I think we can only begin to understand how traumatised she was. Her brother too whose personal life has been rocky. She needed some much to find a loving, older partner with patience and time to help her heal and manage her difficulties. She didn't get that. Harry seems very very similar if it is to be believed he has cut off people. Who will he have Eugenie?

Wow, how tragic. I’m not sure if I could or would ever truly forgive if that had happened to me...Hmm, perhaps they cut people off before these people could hurt them (anymore)?