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  #2961  
Old 01-17-2020, 04:49 PM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Perhaps they complete each other. Perhaps they are the epitome of "you and me against the world". Perhaps they really do love each other and that was the sole reason for marriage and family to begin with. Its so easy to be cynical and see the worse in people if you're on the outside looking in and playing script writer for a soap opera which seems to be quite the lucrative business for the media at this time.

You may be totally right on the money about all this, wyevale, and then again you may not. We just don't know at this time.
but they're not "you and me against the world" right now. At a time when you would expect that they'd hang together, when they are getting knocked for walking away, she is in Canada and Harry's still here in England.. alone.. And it seems like as regards Frogmore, they may not be keeping it as a home.. which suggests that Meghan has mentally moved to Canada and Harry may fnd he will be doing his engagements here in the UK on his own...
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  #2962  
Old 01-17-2020, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
I think Meghan Markle recognised in Harry a Man 'discontented with his lot' in life, looking enviously at the family life his brother enjoyed with his wife and young family, and saw [clearly] that this man, with a global reach she has LONG desired, [but not independently achieved] could provide her with that fame, and 'Global platform'..

He was 'ripe for the picking'.

Now she has the Title, the platform, the child, what need has she of him any more ?
I really believe you're 100% right about this, though I really hope you're not. I'm no fan of Meghan's but I certainly wouldn't wish a broken marriage, only part time custody of his son, and all of the trauma that would come with that on Harry. However, I do very much believe that you're right and now it's really only a matter of time before we see this come about and then watch Harry try to, once again, pick up the pieces and deal with the trauma.
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  #2963  
Old 01-17-2020, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
I think Meghan Markle recognised in Harry a Man 'discontented with his lot' in life, looking enviously at the family life his brother enjoyed with his wife and young family, and saw [clearly] that this man, with a global reach she has LONG desired, [but not independently achieved] could provide her with that fame, and 'Global platform'..

He was 'ripe for the picking'.

Now she has the Title, the platform, the child, what need has she of him any more ?
I donít want to go quite that far, but they met on a blind date, right? So maybe itís possible that she was already inclined to like him because of who he was. Meghan is very confident and I believe that Harry is insecure, and maybe he was looking for someone like her to bolster his self-esteem. Maybe he saw her as a way out of the life he didnít want to live, the life that he knew he couldnít escape if he were on his own..
  #2964  
Old 01-17-2020, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I donít want to go quite that far, but they met on a blind date, right? So maybe itís possible that she was already inclined to like him because of who he was. Meghan is very confident and I believe that Harry is insecure, and maybe he was looking for someone like her to bolster his self-esteem. Maybe he saw her as a way out of the life he didnít want to live, the life that he knew he couldnít escape if he were on his own..
that's what kind of scares me.. Because in spite of everything I do feel a little sorry for Harry.. I am wondering if he was drawn to her partly because he was a lot lonelier and more messed up than he appeared to a casual observer (me at least) and that he really DID feel the need of a woman and a home..and believed that MEg could cope with Royal life and wasn't put off by it, the way some women were. And IMO if she DID come across as "I can cope with it" It was because she didn't actually understand it very well...
And perhaps on some other unconscious level, he also felt "If I DO find I want to get out of this royal cage... Meghan is strong and clever enough to find a way for us to do it". NOW, he's facing the fact that they Are going to do it, and it is scaring him.
  #2965  
Old 01-17-2020, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
Well, if there is any truth in this article, we know now who was really behind this "stepping back as senior Royals"-move! All this talk about "joint decision", "why is only Markle who gets all the blame" and so on is in vain if this story is true!
Surely, Prince Harry was also not happy about his "horrendous fate, worse than death"-situation (no quote, my own words), but he always knew where his place was and what he owed to his grandmother and the country as many things he said during royal tours or interviews in documentaries show.

It is sad, but the truth is that virtually every person marrying into the RF, who came from a broken home/ family him/ herself, caused deep trouble to the monarchy, beginning with Wallis Simpson, Townsend, Lord Snowdon, the Princess of Wales, Fergie and now MM. Can all of these cases really be of pure coincidence?! Who could possibly believe that?

On the positive list we have people like the current Duchess of Gloucester, Sophie Wessex or the Duchess of Cambridge, by origin of stable family backgrounds.
You made a good point here, members who came from broken familie vs members from stable families. Also Wasn't Sophie and the husband having their own business and the Queen asked them to drop it an be full time royals along time ago? For me it is surprising that she left her home with probably a few suitcases not to come back? She knew what was coming, that is the reason they did not spend Xmas with the Queen. This was an elaborate plan. Just I think she does not have roots, I mean family one, I understand she has money to buy any house she wants but it is a sense of belonging. And in the article it is said she did not want her son to grow in a toxic atmosphere , she is taking him away from his own country and his own roots. I am not sure this is wise of it is in the best interest of her son. But knowing how she cut off ties with her father's family and her mother's family you don't wander now she is cutting Hurry from his family. Though I also believe Harry probably wanted out too and her was his perfect match to push it
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  #2966  
Old 01-17-2020, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I donít want to go quite that far, but they met on a blind date, right? So maybe itís possible that she was already inclined to like him because of who he was. Meghan is very confident and I believe that Harry is insecure, and maybe he was looking for someone like her to bolster his self-esteem. Maybe he saw her as a way out of the life he didnít want to live, the life that he knew he couldnít escape if he were on his own..
I do understand what you're saying but I honestly have to question just how confident she really is. Yes, she wants people to believe that she's completely self confident and doesn't waste her energy worrying about what others think of her. But really, haven't the last three years, particularly the last year, shown us otherwise? Using her friends to speak out on her behalf, fleeing to Canada to let Harry handle the fallout on his own, the crocodile tears in that interview, doesn't it all show that just maybe she's not quite the entirely self-confident and self-assured strong woman she wants everyone to believe she is? Some people love to spout those things but behind it all are actually quite self-conscious and unsure and are only masking it well until things get too real, too close, or too hard. I tend to believe this is the category Meghan falls in. And if that's true, then I don't think she's capable of being the solid shoulder than self-conscious and insecure Harry needs to get him through all this.
  #2967  
Old 01-17-2020, 04:58 PM
ACO ACO is offline
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that's what kind of scares me.. Because in spite of everything I do feel a little sorry for Harry.. I am wondering if he was drawn to her partly because he was a lot lonelier and more messed up than he appeared to a casual observer (me at least) and that he really DID feel the need of a woman and a home..and believed that MEg could cope with Royal life and wasn't put off by it, the way some women were. And IMO if she DID come across as "I can cope with it" It was because she didn't actually understand it very well...
And perhaps on some other unconscious level, he also felt "If I DO find I want to get out of this royal cage... Meghan is strong and clever enough to find a way for us to do it". NOW, he's facing the fact that they Are going to do it, and it is scaring him.
Why do we assume this man is scared? It is interesting listening to the corespondents who have been following them around and none of them think this is all on Meghan. In fact most think Harry is leading the charge. Frankly it just shows how we the observers mostly see what we want to see.

I am with the likes of the press pack and fully think this is more on Harry than Meghan though she was right by his siding willing and ready to leave. They have a child now. Priorities change. What you use to be able to tolerate is now off the table. I suspect that plays a large role in why they want out.
  #2968  
Old 01-17-2020, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
Not really an apples to apples comparison. Denmark is a different country and Mary was going to be the future Queen marrying the Crown Prince.
Plus she had both British and Australian citizenship, so she exchanged just one EUnationality for another.
  #2969  
Old 01-17-2020, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I donít want to go quite that far, but they met on a blind date, right? So maybe itís possible that she was already inclined to like him because of who he was. Meghan is very confident and I believe that Harry is insecure, and maybe he was looking for someone like her to bolster his self-esteem. Maybe he saw her as a way out of the life he didnít want to live, the life that he knew he couldnít escape if he were on his own..
I agree so much with you! Also she read the book "the rule" Once you read it you know how she really got him!
Of course it is a lot of factors involve, but I am sure she was drawn to the fact he was a prince and the magic of Royalty like a Disney movie
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  #2970  
Old 01-17-2020, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
Why do we assume this man is scared? It is interesting listening to the corespondents who have been following them around and none of them think this is all on Meghan. In fact most think Harry is leading the charge. Frankly it just shows how we the observers mostly see what we want to see.

I am with the likes of the press pack and fully think this is more on Harry than Meghan though she was right by his siding willing and ready to leave. They have a child now. Priorities change. What you use to be able to tolerate is now off the table. I suspect that plays a large role in why they want out.
Honestly, I don't understand how anyone could watch all of this and expect him to not be at least a little bit scared. Change is scary and it doesn't matter who you are or whether you're a little old commoner like us or a royal prince. Change is scary and it's hard. Harry is changing everything he's ever known and is changing and upending his entire life. I think there's probably a wide range of emotions and feelings right now but I'd be absolutely floored if "scared" isn't one of them. You can be scared even when making very positive changes. But when you're stepping away from everyone and everything you've ever known, it's playing out in international headlines, and everyone and their dog has and expresses an opinion, how could he not be at least a little bit scared?
  #2971  
Old 01-17-2020, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
I'm referring to the pictures we saw of him in the car, the pictures and video we saw of him prior to the beginning of his engagement yesterday, and even the fact that those who were at the engagement spoke of how quickly he rushed through it as though he really just wanted to be finished with it. Yes, he put on his game face and was pleasant throughout the engagement but the rest of the pictures we've seen of him this week combined with the statements from those who, unlike myself, were at that engagement...he seems like a very stressed and worried man. She, on the other hand, has been pictured looking nothing less than blissfully happy. Quite the contrast.
He was in the car...they are allowed to be normal like the rest of us, he looked like anyone else would.

They always put their game faces on at these events. However he did seem his usual self in all the video clips and pics I saw. There was nothing really different from any other time he's been out doing something solo.

If those who are making the comments about him are royal reporters and tabloids then really not surprised they are painting their own narrative. One of them tried to act like (on Twitter) he was very down, they conveniently posted only pictures of him looking serious ....they were called out about it but amazingly never responded.



LaRae
  #2972  
Old 01-17-2020, 05:17 PM
ACO ACO is offline
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
Honestly, I don't understand how anyone could watch all of this and expect him to not be at least a little bit scared. Change is scary and it doesn't matter who you are or whether you're a little old commoner like us or a royal prince. Change is scary and it's hard. Harry is changing everything he's ever known and is changing and upending his entire life. I think there's probably a wide range of emotions and feelings right now but I'd be absolutely floored if "scared" isn't one of them. You can be scared even when making very positive changes. But when you're stepping away from everyone and everything you've ever known, it's playing out in international headlines, and everyone and their dog has and expresses an opinion, how could he not be at least a little bit scared?
They are human. Of course they are feeling a wild range of emotions. I am not saying they not nervous. There are degrees of it. But if this was planned as much as some claim then maybe they are more content than you think. They have clearly accepted whatever will come. I mean they had to know posting what they did would create some mania. They did it anyways.

Honestly Harry seems relieved to me. In fact I agreed with one royal correspondent on GMB today who said he looked like a giant weight was lifted off his shoulders. Change is a lot. Having those butterflies as it approaches and comes into fruition for sure hits you. But he doesn't come across as fearful in the least to me. More like a man tying up loose ends before he heads out.
  #2973  
Old 01-17-2020, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Blog Real View Post
The comment above is one of the smartest I've read in this topic.
I agree with everything I read. I also think that's what happened. I think Harry is sad and worried. His main concern right now is saving his marriage, so he made the decision to move to Canada. Meghan definitely couldn't handle the pressure of being a member of the royal family ...
I don't think Meghan couldn't handle it--I think she chose not to be bothered. She had no vested interest in the UK or the BRF.
  #2974  
Old 01-17-2020, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
I do understand what you're saying but I honestly have to question just how confident she really is. Yes, she wants people to believe that she's completely self confident and doesn't waste her energy worrying about what others think of her. But really, haven't the last three years, particularly the last year, shown us otherwise? Using her friends to speak out on her behalf, fleeing to Canada to let Harry handle the fallout on his own, the crocodile tears in that interview, doesn't it all show that just maybe she's not quite the entirely self-confident and self-assured strong woman she wants everyone to believe she is? Some people love to spout those things but behind it all are actually quite self-conscious and unsure and are only masking it well until things get too real, too close, or too hard. I tend to believe this is the category Meghan falls in. And if that's true, then I don't think she's capable of being the solid shoulder than self-conscious and insecure Harry needs to get him through all this.
I think she’s confident in her milieu - and probably vulnerable in something so completely different as the Royal life. I think her fleeing, her using friends to be her mouthpiece, speaks more to weaknesses in her character than to her lack of confidence. It’s cowardly to run out on your new family, refusing to face them with your fears. It’s cowardly to use your son as a reason to hurriedly escape the UK.

I don’t believe this is all on her, though. His name is on his website, too. Harry has handled this all atrociously. I’m a bit tired of the notion that he can only protect his new family if they escape the BRF, as if that’s the sole cause of his unhappiness. William and Kate have done wonderfully with their three little ones. It’s fine if he doesn’t want that life, but that doesn’t mean it’s toxic...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashelen View Post
I agree so much with you! Also she read the book "the rule" Once you read it you know how she really got him!
Of course it is a lot of factors involve, but I am sure she was drawn to the fact he was a prince and the magic of Royalty like a Disney movie
Is that the book that tells women how to land a man (by playing by certain rules)? !!
  #2975  
Old 01-17-2020, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Itís fine if he doesnít want that life, but that doesnít mean itís toxic...
I think that's a very good point. Now, in all fairness, none of us know what life is truly like inside the BRF but, it's a very good point that just because a certain lifestyle isn't for you doesn't make it toxic. And I think that might really be what's at the heart of some of the outrage about all this. It has been handled atrociously but the image being put out there of the BRF being toxic is really offensive and outrageous to many people and even though we really can't say with certainty what it's like, just because it is different than any other lifestyle and understandably might not be ideal for everyone based on personality, background, etc., it's not inherently toxic just because someone or a couple of someones are unhappy in it.
  #2976  
Old 01-17-2020, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
It now appears that Rose Van Cutsem, wife of Hugh Van Cutsem who has been a longtime close friend of both Harry and William posted and then quickly removed an IG post mocking Harry and Meghan's announcement. .
That's a shame. Harry and William have been friends with the van Cutsems for years. I don't think she should have been having a go at Harry in public, but, yes, it doesn't say much for how his relationships with his old mates are at the moment.
  #2977  
Old 01-17-2020, 05:35 PM
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I ., it's not inherently toxic just because someone or a couple of someones are unhappy in it.
It seems like Harry is finding it "toxic" and has been for some time, and I think Meghan's alos finding it a lot more unpleasant than she expected....
Lots of royals have been less than happy with it, but they've usually stayed because of duty and because they can't really imagine any other life...
  #2978  
Old 01-17-2020, 05:39 PM
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I don't think she should have been having a go at Harry in public
Perhaps that was her sole method of getting 'at him' ? By all accounts his old 'friends' have been dropped like a stone...

The temptation of revenge may have proved irresistible ?
  #2979  
Old 01-17-2020, 05:40 PM
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It seems like Harry is finding it "toxic" and has been for some time, and I think Meghan's alos finding it a lot more unpleasant than she expected....
Lots of royals have been less than happy with it, but they've usually stayed because of duty and because they can't really imagine any other life...
Yes, maybe Harry and Meghan are finding it not to their liking. But to declare the entire institution to be "a toxic environment" isn't fair. Just because something isn't to one's liking does not make it inherently toxic. A lot of people don't like office-type jobs, that doesn't mean they're toxic. A lot of people don't like high pressure jobs, that doesn't mean they're toxic. A lot of these stories and purported "leaks" from the Harry/Meghan camp claiming that the BRF is "a toxic environment" that they just couldn't bear to raise their son in simply aren't fair. We don't know that the whole environment is toxic, only that they found it not to their liking.
  #2980  
Old 01-17-2020, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
I think Meghan Markle recognised in Harry a Man 'discontented with his lot' in life, looking enviously at the family life his brother enjoyed with his wife and young family, and saw [clearly] that this man, with a global reach she has LONG desired, [but not independently achieved] could provide her with that fame, and 'Global platform'..

He was 'ripe for the picking'.

Now she has the Title, the platform, the child, what need has she of him any more ?
She needs him for the title. Until she becomes a British citizen, Duchess of Sussex is a courtesy title and in case of a divorce the best she could do is call herself Ms. Meghan Mountbatten-Windsor. If she is a British citizen (she loses all accrued time if she spends 90 days outside the country in any given year), she would be entitled to call herself Meghan, Duchess of Sussex.

Also, IMO, the platform heavily depends on her being a member of the BRF. No one is going to want to finance Ms. Meghan Markle as a globe trotting philanthropist but a lot of people would be willing to do so for HRH The Duchess of Sussex or even Meghan, Duchess of Sussex.
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