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  #2901  
Old 01-17-2020, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Why is it on Harry? Charles has not much in common with his sons, and they had many years when his marriage to their mother was a very diffiuclt one... I think that as a result of that, perhaps Chas let them get their own way too much...
They surely share some of their father’s desire to do good - that doesn’t all come from Diana. I don’t know them personally so I can’t comment on any personal characteristics they might share. If the two boys - men - don’t respect their father, don’t listen to him (from all accounts he’s been a good father), yell at him, treat him like he’s a joke...then yes, IMO, that’s on him. William and Harry grew up to be fine young men - that’s in large part due to their father. From what I’ve read, Charles tried to give them the freedom to find their way, possibly because he had no choices in his own childhood (like being forced to go to Gourdonston).

I’m not saying Charles is perfect, lord knows he’s got flaws and faults like all of us. I’m just saying he’s done the best he can, and I feel sorry for him if he’s not got a great relationship with his sons.
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  #2902  
Old 01-17-2020, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
They surely share some of their father’s desire to do good - that doesn’t all come from Diana. I don’t know them personally so I can’t comment on any personal characteristics they might share. If the two boys - men - don’t respect their father, don’t listen to him (from all accounts he’s been a good father), yell at him, treat him like he’s a joke...then yes, IMO, that’s on him. William and Harry grew up to be fine young men - that’s in large part due to their father. From what I’ve read, Charles tried to give them the freedom to find their way, possibly because he had no choices in his own childhood (like being forced to go to Gourdonston).

I’m not saying Charles is perfect, lord knows he’s got flaws and faults like all of us. I’m just saying he’s done the best he can, and I feel sorry for him if he’s not got a great relationship with his sons.
Its possible that they do think of him as a bit of a joke, a fussy old fuddy duddy…. but still care for him. I can't believe they have no real respect for him..though I think they do have little in common in terms of interests or general outlook.
I think that Ch DID spoil them a bit as boys because they had lost tehir mother, and he himself had not had much of a relationship with them during the bad years of the marriage. So he tired to make up for it by letting them away with too much. As a result they both were rather tiresome Hooray Henries for a time. I think WIlliam grew out of it and found Kate and got married.. but Harry took longer to grow out of the spoiled phase. However I wonder about H.. he seems to have changed radcially from the young man he was in army days to what he's like now.. He's become this heavyily sierous "new Man" which makes you wonder "has he always had this heavy serious over emotional side" or has Meghan changed him>?
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  #2903  
Old 01-17-2020, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
Yes, here they will be chased and microphones put in their face. Then she will truly understand what Diana experienced from the press.


She’s already getting photographed on “off” time. So possibly since they’re changing the rules, the media will too.
  #2904  
Old 01-17-2020, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
William especially did say nice things about his father for his 70th birthday...
The first part of my statement should not have been there. It was part of a quote that I incorrectly published because my cursor was in the wrong place. My statement began a few lines down with "I remember..." I just wanted to clarify. Thank you. William does, I believe, appreciate his father and will probably grow even closer to him due to this recent crisis.
  #2905  
Old 01-17-2020, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Its possible that they do think of him as a bit of a joke, a fussy old fuddy duddy…. but still care for him. I can't believe they have no real respect for him..though I think they do have little in common in terms of interests or general outlook.
I think that Ch DID spoil them a bit as boys because they had lost tehir mother, and he himself had not had much of a relationship with them during the bad years of the marriage.
I never read that he didn’t have much of a relationship during the stormy years, but actually that he and Diana had always agree about putting the boys first. I think they probably resent him - a lot has been said about this - for not being around as much as they wanted or needed him to, and I believe he regrets this. It almost feels like he was repeating the same cycle he grew up with - we know his parents weren’t around much when he was a boy.
  #2906  
Old 01-17-2020, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
She’s already getting photographed on “off” time. So possibly since they’re changing the rules, the media will too.
As Diana found out when she dropped her royal duties as a regular thng.. and her RPOs, if the press don't get a recognised time when they can photograph you, they'll photograph you any time they can. THey will say that if they can't have legitimate access, they will grab at any access they can get. However does Meghan care about that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I never read that he didn’t have much of a relationship during the stormy years, but actually that he and Diana had always agree about putting the boys first. I think they probably resent him - a lot has been said about this - for not being around as much as they wanted or needed him to, and I believe he regrets this. It almost feels like he was repeating the same cycle he grew up with - we know his parents weren’t around much when he was a boy.
During the bad years of the marriage, increasingly I think that he saw less fo the boys. He was busy with his work, he had Camilla and he and Di could hardly bear to be in he same place at times. So I can't believe that they were all that close.. plus the boys realised he was making their beloved mother unhappy...
Then when Diana died, he took them on, and tried ot make up for her loss but he was still a workaholic and spent a lot of time at his work, so they may have felt that he still didn't give them that much real attention though he did his best...
  #2907  
Old 01-17-2020, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
They surely share some of their father’s desire to do good - that doesn’t all come from Diana. I don’t know them personally so I can’t comment on any personal characteristics they might share. If the two boys - men - don’t respect their father, don’t listen to him (from all accounts he’s been a good father), yell at him, treat him like he’s a joke...then yes, IMO, that’s on him. William and Harry grew up to be fine young men - that’s in large part due to their father. From what I’ve read, Charles tried to give them the freedom to find their way, possibly because he had no choices in his own childhood (like being forced to go to Gourdonston).

I’m not saying Charles is perfect, lord knows he’s got flaws and faults like all of us. I’m just saying he’s done the best he can, and I feel sorry for him if he’s not got a great relationship with his sons.
I think it's obvious that William and Harry are not going to have the same respect towards their father as the do towards their Grandmother who is with head of the family and the Queen. They have grown up knowing that her decision is the final decision as head of the family and as the Monarch. Their father is their father and they have a completely different relationship with him as most children do with their parents. As Charle's was very young when his mother ascended the throne, he was put in a very different position as a child than Willian and Harry have experienced, so I don't think Charles would ever "talk back: to this mother, but I can certainly see William and Harry talking back to him and expressing their views and disagreements very openly. Bottom line is until Charles becomes King, the Queen has the last say in decisions involving the family even if she isn't keen to take that position at times.
  #2908  
Old 01-17-2020, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
. Their father is their father and they have a completely different relationship with him as most children do with their parents. As Charle's was very young when his mother ascended the throne, he was put in a very different position as a child than Willian and Harry have experienced, so I don't think Charles would ever "talk back: to this mother, but I can certainly see William and Harry talking back to him and expressing their views and disagreements very openly. Bottom line is until Charles becomes King, the Queen has the last say in decisions involving the family even if she isn't keen to take that position at times.
still according to some reports, when Charlres told Harry to put his request in writing, Harry wen to the queen. And couriters tried to keep H from meeting his grandmother because they feared she'd be too soft with him?
  #2909  
Old 01-17-2020, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
They also deliberately defied the Queen and Charles. Charles asked Harry not to mention this publicly until a plan had well and truly been put in place; the Queen said the same and told Harry to first discuss this with his father before having any conversations with herself
We do not know what Charles said. We just know what the tabloids have said.


LaRae
  #2910  
Old 01-17-2020, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
I think it's obvious that William and Harry are not going to have the same respect towards their father as the do towards their Grandmother who is with head of the family and the Queen. They have grown up knowing that her decision is the final decision as head of the family and as the Monarch. Their father is their father and they have a completely different relationship with him as most children do with their parents. As Charle's was very young when his mother ascended the throne, he was put in a very different position as a child than Willian and Harry have experienced, so I don't think Charles would ever "talk back: to this mother, but I can certainly see William and Harry talking back to him and expressing their views and disagreements very openly. Bottom line is until Charles becomes King, the Queen has the last say in decisions involving the family even if she isn't keen to take that position at times.
But Charles will be King and head of the family eventually and will also hold the keys to the family’s money. I can’t see how they cannot take him seriously or respect him.
  #2911  
Old 01-17-2020, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
still according to some reports, when Charlres told Harry to put his request in writing, Harry wen to the queen. And couriters tried to keep H from meeting his grandmother because they feared she'd be too soft with him?
We do know that the Queen refused to meet with Harry until the Sussex, Wales and Cambridge camps got together to work out a workable plan, which is exactly what Charles asked Harry to do and exactly what happened. The Queen was not going to be placed in the middle. I am sure Harry wanted to plead his case and expedite the process through the Queen, but that isn't how things are done. He should have known better. The world does not revolve around Harry and his spouse.
  #2912  
Old 01-17-2020, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
It now appears that Rose Van Cutsem, wife of Hugh Van Cutsem who has been a longtime close friend of both Harry and William posted and then quickly removed an IG post mocking Harry and Meghan's announcement. If that's true, and I frankly believe that it is because it would be easy enough to prove (screenshots are taken of this kind of thing all the time), then it speaks volumes. There's been numerous reports of Harry dropping his old friends, etc. and if someone like Rose Van Cutsem feels like it was okay to post that then clearly there's not much of a relationship there any longer.
You mean the woman who has posted a rant about the Daily Mail calling them trash for twisting something that has nothing to do about them? That Rose?
  #2913  
Old 01-17-2020, 01:12 PM
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I think the boys and Charles usually have a loving/respectful relationship with each other...however even adult children may not always get along with the parents.

I think there may have been uneasiness at times (like when they did the interview about Diana a couple years ago) for them...it can't of been comfortable for Charles (and perhaps other family members) to hear them talk about Diana not getting support etc, Harry talking at another time about walking behind the coffin and and not thinking he should of had to do that etc.

I'd think if anyone would understand Harry's desire to put some space between himself and the Firm ...it would be Charles and William.


LaRae
  #2914  
Old 01-17-2020, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
I think it's obvious that William and Harry are not going to have the same respect towards their father as the do towards their Grandmother who is with head of the family and the Queen. They have grown up knowing that her decision is the final decision as head of the family and as the Monarch. Their father is their father and they have a completely different relationship with him as most children do with their parents. As Charle's was very young when his mother ascended the throne, he was put in a very different position as a child than Willian and Harry have experienced, so I don't think Charles would ever "talk back: to this mother, but I can certainly see William and Harry talking back to him and expressing their views and disagreements very openly. Bottom line is until Charles becomes King, the Queen has the last say in decisions involving the family even if she isn't keen to take that position at times.
I’m sure Charles is glad that William and Harry feel comfortable disagreeing with him - he doesn’t seem to care or expect that they share his beliefs, which is fine since people can disagree and still love each other (see: Charles and Philip). I wasn’t, by the way, implying that Charles should or ever would have talked back to his mum...the Queen.

The Queen is her own entity and deserves respect on that fact alone, but I think Charles should be respected as a William and Harry’s father - unless he hasn’t earned that respect. If Harry respected or was even particularly close to his father, he’d have discussed this with him without needing the Queen’s intervention. I think HM herself was trying to encourage Harry in this regard because Charles is his father. Yes she’s the ultimate authority, but this is still a family matter - and she respects her son as Harry’s father.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I think the boys and Charles usually have a loving/respectful relationship with each other...however even adult children may not always get along with the parents.

I think there may have been uneasiness at times (like when they did the interview about Diana a couple years ago) for them...it can't of been comfortable for Charles (and perhaps other family members) to hear them talk about Diana not getting support etc, Harry talking at another time about walking behind the coffin and and not thinking he should of had to do that etc.

I'd think if anyone would understand Harry's desire to put some space between himself and the Firm ...it would be Charles and William.


LaRae
I don’t know about William (I suspect he understands), but Charles doesn’t seem to have an issue with it because he’s ultimately concerned about his son’s happiness...

I agree with you about the up and down nature Of parent/children relationships, and if that’s how it’s been with the Wales’, that’s fine. It’s not like we’d get reports stating “oh, they love each other” - no, we’d pretty much only get stories of problems because those sell.
  #2915  
Old 01-17-2020, 01:23 PM
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I remember when the papers used to claim Charles and William had no relationship and he was being kept away from his grandchildren. That was the narrative for a very long time. And then we have people like Dan Wootton going on his show saying that Charles (or his office) were behind a lot of the "leaks" about his sons over the years. Is that true? Probably not but that is the kind of stuff these papers want out there.

I have no doubt that these three men love each other but they are their own people. Families have conflict. You can love someone and not like them very much at times. I suspect Harry is having a period of that now. William probably had that period as well. People change as their lives change. You have different priorities and expectations. It is not a good or bad thing. It is just different.
  #2916  
Old 01-17-2020, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I don’t know about William (I suspect he understands), but Charles doesn’t seem to have an issue with it because he’s ultimately concerned about his son’s happiness...

I agree with you about the up and down nature Of parent/children relationships, and if that’s how it’s been with the Wales’, that’s fine. It’s not like we’d get reports stating “oh, they love each other” - no, we’d pretty much only get stories of problems because those sell.

I think William has been raised with a very different set of expectations from Harry..so perhaps he's been more groomed to know there's no getting out of it ever..you are gonna be the King at some point.

Harry would of had (been raised with) different expectations and allowed to have more freedom in options. Perhaps without that sense of you must do X.

I agree that Charles is going to want both boys to be happy. The last thing he's going to do is insist Harry keep doing the full time work for the Firm if he is miserable doing it.

I tend to go by the body language of them when they've all be together in public for events or interviews etc. I think they usually get on well with Charles. The media is not going to be overly concerned with us hearing how much they love/respect each other.



LaRae
  #2917  
Old 01-17-2020, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
I remember when the papers used to claim Charles and William had no relationship and he was being kept away from his grandchildren. That was the narrative for a very long time. And then we have people like Dan Wootton going on his show saying that Charles (or his office) were behind a lot of the "leaks" about his sons over the years. Is that true? Probably not but that is the kind of stuff these papers want out there.

I have no doubt that these three men love each other but they are their own people. Families have conflict. You can love someone and not like them very much at times. I suspect Harry is having a period of that now. William probably had that period as well. People change as their lives change. You have different priorities and expectations. It is not a good or bad thing. It is just different.
And then in the documentary for Charles's 70th birthday, William said he wished his father was able to spend more time with his children. I bolded some relevant points.

My point is, it is possible to have some facts, but without having or using the whole picture, shape those facts into a story that is not accurate.

https://www.etonline.com/prince-will...-grandchildren


'Prince William and Prince Harry want their father, Prince Charles, to focus on his work-life balance a little more. In the new BBC One documentary, Prince, Son & Heir: Charles at 70, in honor of the Prince of Wales' upcoming 70th birthday, the brothers open up about their father and their hopes for him.

Charles’ eldest son, William, expresses his desire to have his father spend more time with his three children, Prince George, 5, Princess Charlotte, 3, and Prince Louis, 6 months.

"I would like him to have more time with the children,” William says of his father. "Having more time with him at home would be lovely, and being able to, you know, play around with the grandchildren. When he’s there, he’s brilliant, but we need him there as much as possible.”'
  #2918  
Old 01-17-2020, 01:53 PM
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We all have to remember that we are ALL blinkered in a sense by who we like and support. This means that someone who likes and supports Harry and Meghan will never see things the way I see them--and that is A-OK. We need to be able to respect each others right to have an opinion AND the opinion that we express on the matter.

I can see how William and Harry might not be close to Charles. As someone who grew up being what would be described as a Mamas boy--I became aloof from my father when I felt he was disrespecting or doing wrong by my mother. I still at times find myself sub-consciously blaming him for little things relating to his treatment of my mother, years after my mother is no longer with us. It is quite possible that they feel the same way.

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Originally Posted by UglyAmerican View Post
Is there any precedent for someone who neither has nor is currently pursuing British citizenship to have an HRH style?
There wouldn't be. The idea that you would not be automatically granted citizenship when marrying into a country's royal family only came about in the last 10 years. The Crown Princess of Denmark was automatically granted danish citizenship upon marriage as late as 2005.
  #2919  
Old 01-17-2020, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I think William has been raised with a very different set of expectations from Harry..so perhaps he's been more groomed to know there's no getting out of it ever..you are gonna be the King at some point.

Harry would of had (been raised with) different expectations and allowed to have more freedom in options. Perhaps without that sense of you must do X.

I agree that Charles is going to want both boys to be happy. The last thing he's going to do is insist Harry keep doing the full time work for the Firm if he is miserable doing it.

I tend to go by the body language of them when they've all be together in public for events or interviews etc. I think they usually get on well with Charles. The media is not going to be overly concerned with us hearing how much they love/respect each other.



LaRae
I tend to agree with you Pranter, especially your last paragraph.

I’ll add, I’ve always thought Harry had a chip on his shoulder/resentment towards his father and grandmother in the way his mother was treated during/after his parents divorce.

Who knows what goes on behind closed doors but I do think Harry has been mollycoddled where that has become his “norm”. When he married, I can’t help but think there was a sigh of relief from his elders hoping that this would see him settled in some way and building a marvelous future for himself and his bride.

Today I don’t think it’s a chip/resentment anymore. I think it’s a deep internal rage that’s now playing out in public. I think he’s a very angry young man.
  #2920  
Old 01-17-2020, 02:15 PM
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There wouldn't be. The idea that you would not be automatically granted citizenship when marrying into a country's royal family only came about in the last 10 years. The Crown Princess of Denmark was automatically granted danish citizenship upon marriage as late as 2005.
Not really an apples to apples comparison. Denmark is a different country and Mary was going to be the future Queen marrying the Crown Prince.
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