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  #2841  
Old 01-17-2020, 06:43 AM
muriel's Avatar
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At the heart of the problem, IMO, is the issue that I raised a while ago. I just do not think Meghan was ever going to be happy being in a supporting role in the BRF. And whilst there may have been issues with the press (which, IMO, was not insurmountable), my guess is that she quickly realised that being married to the 6th in line to the throne was not all it was cut out to be. The rest is just details.

As regards Harry, I think he has always craved emotional security, and Meghan was probably the first person who could provided it to him after growing up. However, my guess is that he was always concerned that she may decide it is all too much for her and that is why he rushed into the marriage. Following the marriage, and with this backdrop of emotional dependence on her, I just do not think he could lay down the boundaries in the relationship, and allowed himself to be alienated from his family, as is now clear, the only life he has known.
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  #2842  
Old 01-17-2020, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by UglyAmerican View Post
Is there any precedent for someone who neither has nor is currently pursuing British citizenship to have an HRH style?
I don't think the situation's ever arisen. The system 100 years ago was that women took their husband's nationality on marriage - and that a British woman lost her British nationality if she married a foreign man. Equality for women, i.e. making their own choice about seeking naturalisation, is a fairly new thing, and only really applies to the last few generations!

Princess Marina was a princess in her own right anyway, I’m not sure about Princess Michael but her first husband was British so she may well have already been a British citizen, and I think - I may have forgotten someone - that all other recent male HRHs have married British citizens … with the obvious exception of the Duke of Windsor. Prince Philip was granted British citizenship before getting married.

I don't think Meghan not being a British citizen would be a reason for her not to be styled HRH, though, and I think that taking the style away now that it's been granted would be seen as a very hostile thing to do. If she chose to renounce it, that would be different.
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  #2843  
Old 01-17-2020, 07:16 AM
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I never thought that Harry (as part of) would become so divisive....... I find it rather sad....
  #2844  
Old 01-17-2020, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
I don't think the situation's ever arisen. The system 100 years ago was that women took their husband's nationality on marriage - and that a British woman lost her British nationality if she married a foreign man. Equality for women, i.e. making their own choice about seeking naturalisation, is a fairly new thing, and only really applies to the last few generations!

Princess Marina was a princess in her own right anyway, I’m not sure about Princess Michael but her first husband was British so she may well have already been a British citizen, and I think - I may have forgotten someone - that all other recent male HRHs have married British citizens … with the obvious exception of the Duke of Windsor. Prince Philip was granted British citizenship before getting married.

I don't think Meghan not being a British citizen would be a reason for her not to be styled HRH, though, and I think that taking the style away now that it's been granted would be seen as a very hostile thing to do. If she chose to renounce it, that would be different.
The Duchess of Gloucester is Danish. Don't know if she has dual nationality.
  #2845  
Old 01-17-2020, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UglyAmerican View Post
Is there any precedent for someone who neither has nor is currently pursuing British citizenship to have an HRH style?

I believe in former times it was easier to become British on marriage. Thinking eg of princess Marina of Greece and Denmark who became the Duchess of Kent. She would have lost her own HRH when she became British but her husband had one, so she took his.



Same with Brigitte of Gloucester amd Marie Christine of Kent. I believe they got the British passport when they married as they were foreigners. If not, then they both were HRH (like Meghan sharing the style as the wife of a HRH) as foreigners till they got the British nationality.


And it doesn't matter for Meghan, as she only shares her husband's style, as the queen made clear in 1996 when she removed the style from Diana and Sarah following their divorces. Since then it is law that only the wives share their husband's style and once the marriage is dissolved, the style of HRH is removed from the divorcée.
  #2846  
Old 01-17-2020, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Agreed. I forgot to mention in my above post that the fact that he does read what the media has to say about him is a really, really bad choice. Harry seems to have an obsession with the media - he hates them, but he needs them. People normally try and avoid things that make them angry, so why isn’t he ?
It’s counter productive on every level. He was born to the most famous family in the world, not to Joe and Sally Smith. He can’t change that. If he was really so miserable with his lot in life, he could have pursued a higher education and made it clear years ago he did not want to ever become a full time Royal and wanted to pursue a career outside the BRF. If he had met and married a normal girl who wanted just him and a family and a quiet life outside media attention, then he may have had a chance for that “normalcy” he claims to want so badly. However, he met and married a woman who has spent her life wanting and craving fame. There is absolutely no denying that. She has all the fame she wants and needs now and there is no way she is going to be happy anywhere unless she is front and center of the world’s attention and the only way she can get that attention is through the media. Without media they fade away to obscurity, which would suit Harry but it would never suit Meghan.

He will never be free of media intrusion or criticism because these two will never go away and live their life as quietly as possible. It will only get worse from here and in the end Harry will find that he has traded his Royal heritage for Meghan’s ambitions and he will not be any happier. Living outside the fishbowl only makes you prey for sharks.

Read on Harry.
  #2847  
Old 01-17-2020, 07:46 AM
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The Spectator article was written by Camilla Tominey. Tominey is an established royal reporter and the article is an analysis piece with supporting details. I don't always accept analysis pieces, but I accept much of what she is saying because I think she is onto something regarding the impact of Sir Christopher Geidt's departure and Charles' relationship with his sons.

I find her closing sentence quite ominous.

Quote:
This is the tension that now lies under the royal household, and the drama over Harry will not be the last of it.
  #2848  
Old 01-17-2020, 07:56 AM
ACO ACO is offline
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Well clearly something is brewing as the editor of The Mirror has hinted more them once now. He says members of the press who know are legally not allowed to discuss it, but he claims there is way more to the Sussex exit drama.

Who knows though but if true I’m sure it’s bound to leak.
  #2849  
Old 01-17-2020, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
It’s counter productive on every level. He was born to the most famous family in the world, not to Joe and Sally Smith. He can’t change that. If he was really so miserable with his lot in life, he could have pursued a higher education and made it clear years ago he did not want to ever become a full time Royal and wanted to pursue a career outside the BRF. If he had met and married a normal girl who wanted just him and a family and a quiet life outside media attention, then he may have had a chance for that “normalcy” he claims to want so badly. However, he met and married a woman who has spent her life wanting and craving fame. There is absolutely no denying that. She has all the fame she wants and needs now and there is no way she is going to be happy anywhere unless she is front and center of the world’s attention and the only way she can get that attention is through the media. Without media they fade away to obscurity, which would suit Harry but it would never suit Meghan.

He will never be free of media intrusion or criticism because these two will never go away and live their life as quietly as possible. It will only get worse from here and in the end Harry will find that he has traded his Royal heritage for Meghan’s ambitions and he will not be any happier. Living outside the fishbowl only makes you prey for sharks.

Read on Harry.
I don't think it was ever possible for Harry to pursue higher education NOR to easily avoid his destiny of being full tiem royal in due course. he is one of only 2 sons.. He may have thoutgh that he could nto escape.. htat he had to do royal duties after some time in the army... esp as his grandparents were getting older... but I do believe if he really really felt he could not hack it.. then the time to give up was before he got married... to say that he coudlnt' do the job, and that Meghan was too independent and thtat they'd have to find someone else to take on the second son duties. Not to take on marriage, a wife, and an important royal role and then say he and his wife had to bail out, 2 years later.
  #2850  
Old 01-17-2020, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I don't think it was ever possible for Harry to pursue higher education NOR to easily avoid his destiny of being full tiem royal in due course.
Harry was not the most academically gifted, so the idea of higher education would only have taken him so far!
  #2851  
Old 01-17-2020, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muriel View Post
Harry was not the most academically gifted, so the idea of higher education would only have taken him so far!
well precisely. I don't think he was likely to find it a possible escape avenue. I can't decide wehter Meghan wanted out from the time she was in.. or if she really did mean well and then found that England and royal life was not what she had expected or wanted to be involved with.
  #2852  
Old 01-17-2020, 08:51 AM
hel hel is offline
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Patricia Treble raises an interesting question:



https://twitter.com/PatriciaTreble/s...75008023568384
  #2853  
Old 01-17-2020, 08:54 AM
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Poor Harry doesn't seem to have a stable self-identity. He becomes the image of his current lived environment.

Royal/not Royal - Army/not Army - Global Sleb/not Global Sleb...
  #2854  
Old 01-17-2020, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophie25 View Post
The Duchess of Gloucester is Danish. Don't know if she has dual nationality.

She is British. Don't know if she still has her Danish nationality.



A quote from the Duchess: "it is one of the major aspects which makes me very proud to be British."


from: https://www.royal.uk/the-duchess-of-gloucester (the official portrait of the Duchess on the homepage of the BRF).

Quote:
Originally Posted by hel View Post
Patricia Treble raises an interesting question:



https://twitter.com/PatriciaTreble/s...75008023568384

The call came from the Uk, the manager of the shelter said to the Daily Mail.
  #2855  
Old 01-17-2020, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
The call came from the Uk, the manager of the shelter said to the Daily Mail.
Why is the manager of the shelter talking to the Daily Mail? I would have thought Meghan would have warned them against talking to the British press.
  #2856  
Old 01-17-2020, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
The Spectator article was written by Camilla Tominey. Tominey is an established royal reporter and the article is an analysis piece with supporting details. I don't always accept analysis pieces, but I accept much of what she is saying because I have think she is onto something regarding the impact Sir Christopher Geidt's departure and Charles' relationship with his sons.

I find her closing sentence quite ominous.
If true, this part is telling:

Quote:
Charles’s aides asked William to praise his father’s role in the boys’ upbringing when the brothers appeared in documentaries to mark the 20th anniversary of their mother’s death.
  #2857  
Old 01-17-2020, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muriel View Post
Harry was not the most academically gifted, so the idea of higher education would only have taken him so far!
Emotional and psychological traumas can cause serious mental health issues causing even the smartest person to fail at school - this I write from personal experience, my father death at a young age impacted my academic abilities to the point I dropped out of the traditional school system.
FYI I was labeled a genius and was offered a spot at a school for the gifted.

I always felt that once he found a vocation that he loved he would have given it his all. To me he always seemed perfectly suited for teaching and or counseling work of some sort. This chase for a life of paparazzi and glitz and glamour disguised as charity work... that’s not what he deeply, imo, craves for.
  #2858  
Old 01-17-2020, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Elenath View Post
If true, this part is telling:
How is it “telling.” The documentary was about Diana and the 20th anniversary of her death. As their parents were divorced after acrimony, there was no place for talking about Charles in that particular documentary. I can see someone like Mark Bolland asking though.
  #2859  
Old 01-17-2020, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
Why is the manager of the shelter talking to the Daily Mail? I would have thought Meghan would have warned them against talking to the British press.
Warning or not, that doesn't mean they can't talk to people should they wish. Meghan has no issue with them publicising the event on their social media.

Meghan appears to have "shed" all aspect of royal life as soon as she left the country.
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  #2860  
Old 01-17-2020, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Warning or not, that doesn't mean they can't talk to people should they wish. Meghan has no issue with them publicising the event on their social media.

Meghan appears to have "shed" all aspect of royal life as soon as she left the country.
True, but now that they have talked to the Daily Mail-will that be the first & last the shelter sees her?
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