The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[wyevale]

I , and the British Public are now questioning why 'the lady' [if committed to this country and her marriage] retained her lawyers and agents, as well as business/es in the US throughout the marriage ?

Her tearful interview looks like one of her many theatrical performances, and only that.

Many now see clearly she only ever has but one 'commitment', and that is to herself..

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Roderick

How would the Queen stop the wedding from happening? She can only advise and counsel, but she is not omnipotent when a grandson in his 30s decides to marry an American actress. She did what she often does in circumstances where she is not best pleased - she made the best of it.

In my opinion, Harry relied on the huge outpouring of love, understanding and sympathy he rightly received at the age of 12 when he lost his mother and seemed to believe it would last forever. As an adult, he was expected to move beyond that and be regarded and respected in his own right. He didn't like that. He crumbled when he and his wife were criticised and instead of working through it, pulled the plug in the most dramatic way he could think of.

AFAICR, Harry had to ask for permission to marry.. I agree that the queen wasn't likely to refuse it.. but maybe showing a bit of caution, like suggesting he and Meg lived together for a time, or at least that they moved into Royal life slowly (Meghan) would have been a good idea. If Meg had just done occasional engagements, as Kate did at first, and the queen had held off from giving Harry a big role like the commonwealth for a yaer or 2, then even if they had ended up saying they didn't want to stick wit the Royal role... it would not have been such a bombshell as this was. It was a difficult position I agree. the queen is very old now, its time she handed over most of her work to the grandsons and so on.. and Harry was supposed to be a full time royal. Philip has retired and is now very old and not well. SHe should be able to rely on her family to get on with Royal life and let her take things easier, and know that they will carry on for her. But I can't help wondering did she know that Harry was so wobbly? Or that Meghan was not likely to be able to support him to stay in his job? the problem is that it is difficult to see who can fill in for htem. ANdrew has now left his patronages, the commonwealth is an important job.. and I don't think that Charles wants to call in any of his nephews and nieces and they probably don't want to give up tehir lives either. I agree, if Harry was so wobbly, he should have made it clear years ago that maybe he simply coudlnt or wouldn't become a full time royal and that they would then have had some time to consider other options.

[texankitcat]

Originally Posted by Denville

Obviously whatever financial arrangemetns are made from the Duchy money will have to be agreed to by Wiliam as well...

If there continues to be financial support by the time Charles ascends the throne, Harry will then be supported by the Duchy of Lancaster which King Charles will inherent as the Sovereign. William will not be in the position to support his brother.

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by wyevale

I , and the British Public are now questioning why 'the lady' [if committed to this country and her marriage] retained her lawyers and agents, as well as business/es in the US throughout the marriage ?

Is it a surprise to anybody that Meghan would have business ventures in the US? To be honest here, I didn't have an inkling that she did but then again, people that have substantial amounts of money invest it in various ways and businesses is one way. They also have lawyers and managers that will look after these investments for them. Its just never really been made public just what her wealth was invested in (that I can recall anyways).

HM, The Queen is no exception to this either. She uses her personal fortune and over the past 30 years, has earned $9,372,441.00 with her "business" being horse racing and its been her personal passion (according to MyRacing.com). Its never detracted from her duty, her love of Crown and Country and no one has really bat an eye about it other than the supposed "rumors" of the close friendship between Elizabeth and her racing manager, Henry Herbert, 7th Earl of Carnarvon with whom she had a wonderful friendship and was known as "Porchey". The Queen Mother was also big on investing in horse racing.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/08/quee...de-hustle.html

I imagine that if we really wanted to delve into it deeply, we'd find out that most of the royal family have portfolios and investments made with their personal monies in areas where that money would glean return for them. Its just their private income and private investments don't really hit the news that often as "black marks" against a royal and their dedication to Crown and Country.

So.... where's the beef?

[wyevale]

where's the beef?

*AGENTS* - why would 'a senior member of the BRF' require or retain them ? Does the Princess Royal do commercials ? Does the Duchess of Cambridge 'step the boards' ?

[Lilyflo]

Originally Posted by wyevale

*AGENTS* - why would 'a senior member of the BRF' require or retain them ? Does the Princess Royal do commercials ? Does the Duchess of Cambridge 'step the boards' ?

It wouldn't bother me if the work the agents procure is for charity fundraising. Meghan has acting experience so why not use that for things like voice-overs, presenting etc if it's dignified & raises money for good causes. However, if it's mainly for personal gain then we're back in the same mess we were with the Wessexes & we know how that turned out.

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by wyevale

*AGENTS* - why would 'a senior member of the BRF' require or retain them ? Does the Princess Royal do commercials ? Does the Duchess of Cambridge 'step the boards' ?

Maybe its just me but all agents aren't attached to the entertainment business. The definition of an agent is "a person who acts on behalf of another person or group." Do you know (and I'm honestly asking as I don't know) that Meghan's agent(s) are all pertaining to the entertainment business?

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by ACO

Then that eventually also becomes William's. Again paying for a brother he likely does not get on well with. I guess this could be a legit question regarding Harry's quest for this current transitional independence. Maybe preppy oneside against the idea of just being cut off. Not that it wouldn't happen under his reign but it could have.

The Queen's children have benefited greatly from her living a very long time. I pray Charles has that same health. Nothing is guaranteed and family issues are clearly a thing. Right or wrong.... trust between the brothers is non existent. That much is clear.

Do your think then that Harry’s quest for financial independence was motivated by fears that William might cut him off when he is king ?

Anyway, going forward I believe it makes sense that second- born children in Royal Families grow up with financial independence as a goal considering that public support for funding siblings of monarchs later in life is diminishing. The norm for adult siblings will be to be part timers and be reimbursed only for the royal events they attend as it is the case in Sweden or the Netherlands .

The problem with Harry is that it should have been done the proper way , I e going to university and getting a real career , or starting a business like Princess Anne’s that is completely separated from his royal profile. The Sussex Royal brand mixes the two things in a completely inappropriate way .

[Osipi]

I'm still thinking that by "financially independent" and "professional income" and the trademarking of the "brand" Sussex Royal is in reference to the Sussex Royal Foundation they're establishing for their philanthropic work.

They would be part time royals working for the "Firm" and Queen and country and totally separated would be their philanthropic work with their foundation and how its run, managed apart from Sovereign Grant funding. Being professional philanthropists could be the "business" and "career" path they wish to take.

But what do I know. I'm just following this like everybody else is and enjoying an immensely informative and intelligent discussion about it.

[Kataryn]

Originally Posted by wyevale

I , and the British Public are now questioning why 'the lady' [if committed to this country and her marriage] retained her lawyers and agents, as well as business/es in the US throughout the marriage ?

Her tearful interview looks like one of her many theatrical performances, and only that.

Many now see clearly she only ever has but one 'commitment', and that is to herself..

I read she removed her company from "noisy" California to "discreet" Delaware, both in the US?? Where did you read this with the move from the Uk to the US? Considering that she still as an American has to declare her taxes there, it is probably good for her and for the Royal family (whose finances were said to be involved in these tax declarations) to change the adress from California to Delaware. I was wondering anyway why so many actors have agencies and lawyers in such "obscure" states when they resided in California? This explained it!


As for your opinion on her reactions, theatrical or not, and her devotion only for herself or for Harry and his family, too is again duly noted but contested.



I personally see why she could have reacted as she did, though I'm not happy about it for the sake of the rest of the RF. But our mileage varries here.

[Betsypaige]

Originally Posted by Denville

AFAICR, Harry had to ask for permission to marry.. I agree that the queen wasn't likely to refuse it.. but maybe showing a bit of caution, like suggesting he and Meg lived together for a time, or at least that they moved into Royal life slowly (Meghan) would have been a good idea. If Meg had just done occasional engagements, as Kate did at first, and the queen had held off from giving Harry a big role like the commonwealth for a yaer or 2, then even if they had ended up saying they didn't want to stick wit the Royal role... it would not have been such a bombshell as this was. It was a difficult position I agree. the queen is very old now, its time she handed over most of her work to the grandsons and so on.. and Harry was supposed to be a full time royal. Philip has retired and is now very old and not well. SHe should be able to rely on her family to get on with Royal life and let her take things easier, and know that they will carry on for her. But I can't help wondering did she know that Harry was so wobbly? Or that Meghan was not likely to be able to support him to stay in his job? the problem is that it is difficult to see who can fill in for htem. ANdrew has now left his patronages, the commonwealth is an important job.. and I don't think that Charles wants to call in any of his nephews and nieces and they probably don't want to give up tehir lives either. I agree, if Harry was so wobbly, he should have made it clear years ago that maybe he simply coudlnt or wouldn't become a full time royal and that they would then have had some time to consider other options.

I agree with this, although would the Queen, Charles or any future monarch want to try and ...well, make any serious relationship almost like a job with, say, an interview or a slow dipping of toes into the Royal pool? Then again, this might be a unique situation since how often will future Royal children marry someone who is not British and completely unsuited to the “life” ...which wouldn’t be known before the marriage? Harry himself had dated several women, at least one of whom bowed out because she knew she couldn’t handle being Royal.

The issue with Harry is that I’m not sure how often he opens up to anyone. [...]While he’s close to the Queen, who’s to say he spoke to her about his worries? I suspect Harry just kind of kept a stiff upper lip...

[Kataryn]

Originally Posted by Denville

But I can't help wondering did she know that Harry was so wobbly? Or that Meghan was not likely to be able to support him to stay in his job? the problem is that it is difficult to see who can fill in for htem. ANdrew has now left his patronages, the commonwealth is an important job.. and I don't think that Charles wants to call in any of his nephews and nieces and they probably don't want to give up tehir lives either. I agree, if Harry was so wobbly, he should have made it clear years ago that maybe he simply coudlnt or wouldn't become a full time royal and that they would then have had some time to consider other options.

Once it started to matter, Charles surely told her and they together were looking for a solution. They probably hoped that Meghan would stabilize him (which she would have IMHO done if the tabloids had stopped to hunt her down that way. One day there were 5 new articles critizising her for this or that in one issue of the DM!)



But yes, it is difficult with the way the RF is organized at the moment. I can well be that Charles together with William and Harry planned to cut down on the HRH-style only for the children of the monarch and his direct heir's kids. That's why little Archie is only "Master Mountbatten-Windsor" now and probably won't be a prince in his life. Thinking about that, I think the parents decided with Charles to wait for the queen's death and then make new decisions whether Archie is earl Dumbarton or Prince Archie of Sussex or stick with Master Mountbatten-Windsor once granddad is king. Which would have been decided if they chose then that but now they are free to follow Charles' wish. And little Louis will grow up as well to know how things are (just like little Sverre in Oslo grew up) for him and his children.



As for Harry being wobbly - I believe the RF did a lot to make him stick to them and his job as a prince. And before he had a wife and son it was not so urgent for him. I believe it wouldn't have been so urgent for them if the media had treated Meghan better.

So understandible that it needed for a small Sussex-branch of the RF for Harry to figure things out. Unfortunately not for the family he was born into.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Betsypaige

I agree with this, although would the Queen, Charles or any future monarch want to try and ...well, make any serious relationship almost like a job with, say, an interview or a slow dipping of toes into the Royal pool? Then again, this might be a unique situation since how often will future Royal children marry someone who is not British and completely unsuited to the “life” ...which wouldn’t be known before the marriage? Harry himself had dated several women, at least one of whom bowed out because she knew she couldn’t handle being Royal.

The issue with Harry is that I’m not sure how often he opens up to anyone. [...]While he’s close to the Queen, who’s to say he spoke to her about his worries? I suspect Harry just kind of kept a stiff upper lip...

]

problem is, that it IS a job. Meghan seemed keen on it, she was doing engagements ealry on and seemed to be well up to it, which isn't surprising as she was an actress and used to public performing. So I think the queen can't imagine that anyone would have real problems with the "job" or that they would undertake royal life and then walk away from it.

I do feel that either Harry should have opened up if he was really so unsure of whther he could do the royal job.. a few years ago.. or that the RF should have noticed if he seemed to be getting wobbly. It does seem frorm stories in the papers over the past few months that this withdrawal has been coming on for the past 6 months or so, and that the 2 of them have felt unable to cope, but either could not or would not discuss with the rest of the family...

[Kataryn]

Originally Posted by wyevale

*AGENTS* - why would 'a senior member of the BRF' require or retain them ? Does the Princess Royal do commercials ? Does the Duchess of Cambridge 'step the boards' ?

We don't even know what is meant by the word and already it is used against Meghan, while the queen herself has business agents help her staff running her business interests.

Originally Posted by Mbruno

Do your think then that Harry’s quest for financial independence was motivated by fears that William might cut him off when he is king ?

Anyway, going forward I believe it makes sense that second- born children in Royal Families grow up with financial independence as a goal considering that public support for funding siblings of monarchs later in life is diminishing. The norm for adult siblings will be to be part timers and be reimbursed only for the royal events they attend as it is the case in Sweden or the Netherlands .

The problem with Harry is that it should have been done the proper way , I e going to university and getting a real career , or starting a business like Princess Anne’s that is completely separated from his royal profile. The Sussex Royal brand mixes the two things in a completely inappropriate way .

Not yet it doesn't. Or can you give me examples yet? It is feared that... is the way the papers claim such things...

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Kataryn

We don't even know what is meant by the word and already it is used against Meghan, while the queen herself has business agents help her staff running her business interests.

I think we do know what an actress's agent is...

[Osipi]

Family dynamics and relationships are complicated and that's just with handing the families we all have. We really do not have an insider's view of the dynamics between *any* of the BRF and as outsiders looking in at seeing a little bit here and a little bit there, we don't have a full enough picture to actually psychoanalyze these people as being "wobbly" "daft" "myopic" "ditzy" or any other description we can use as labels for them.

Life is trial and error and being royal doesn't make them exempt from this. What is so surprising about when Harry and Meghan started down the road of royal life that they actually expected it to work beautifully and were happy and eager to jump right in and go full speed ahead? It didn't work out that way and when something doesn't work, you fix it. Its a truism that in order to *know* something (such as royal life in the fishbowl, marriage and family, deciding to colonize and live on Mars etc) it takes experience to *know*. Knowing and understanding are horses of two different colors and breeds.

I can read and understand the dynamics of what its like to walk on the moon but until I actually *do* walk on the moon, I can't say I *know* what its like. For all I know, it could make me physically sick every time I put the space walk suit on. That would have been something unforseen in my understanding of walking on the moon.

A lot of the craziness with the harassment of Meghan and the huge responses to her appearances with a cookbook on a best seller list, being dragged over the coals about insignificant details such as Avocado Gate and doing things differently with the birth of Archie all fit into the experiences that have led to where the Sussexes are now. They couldn't have been predicted or prepared for when they decided to walk the road of life together.

In a way, the relationship and marriage of Harry and Meghan up until now really has been the closest thing to "Dianamania" as we've ever gotten and what we're seeing is the effects of all that. It couldn't have been predicted either. Its a unique situation that involves two unique people and their trials and errors as they walk through life together.

At least that's how I see it.

[Betsypaige]

Originally Posted by Denville

problem is, that it IS a job. Meghan seemed keen on it, she was doing engagements ealry on and seemed to be well up to it, which isn't surprising as she was an actress and used to public performing. So I think the queen can't imagine that anyone would have real problems with the "job" or that they would undertake royal life and then walk away from it.

I do feel that either Harry should have opened up if he was really so unsure of whther he could do the royal job.. a few years ago.. or that the RF should have noticed if he seemed to be getting wobbly. It does seem frorm stories in the papers over the past few months that this withdrawal has been coming on for the past 6 months or so, and that the 2 of them have felt unable to cope, but either could not or would not discuss with the rest of the family...

I don’t think it’s fair to expect anyone to be mind readers, and that’s why I firmly believe it was on Harry to express his feelings. The People magazine I quoted earlier in the thread, and which the below article references, goes into more detail, but:

“Let down by the institution”? Wanting to “carve out a new model”? What are H and M trying to do, create a different kind of Royal family in North America? One that’s openly emotional and different from his own or the BRF in past generations ?

The more I read, the more upset I get with them. This rift with William could have been resolved if he told his brother how he felt and they got it all out in the open. Is Harry so unforgiving? Because, to be honest, he sounds as unbending as Meghan. I thought he’d gotten closer to his father lately - ironically because of Meghan- but Sarah Vine said in a piece written a few days ago that Harry had been distancing himself from Charles, from everyone. To my mind, both H and M are largely to blame for the “bad blood” they think exists.



https://twitter.com/re_dailymail/sta...374536704?s=21

[texankitcat]

Originally Posted by Kataryn

We don't even know what is meant by the word and already it is used against Meghan, while the queen herself has business agents help her staff running her business interests.

Don't we? An agent in the Entertainment industry manages careers of their clients who are Actors in that industry. If she retained that Agent, which means she is still paying them, then it indicates she may have been planning all along to use her position to pursue projects within that industry. That is very telling and gives rise to what is really going on with these latest developments from her end.

[Mbruno]

I think retaining an agent, business interests and lawyers in the US was Plan B ( and a fallback) for Meghan. It is an American instinct to do so and doesn’t necessarily mean she was not committed to Plan A, although I understand it might look like that to the British public.

Certainly she didn’t make a complete break with her former professional life as Mary Donaldson did when she moved from Australia to Denmark , but Mary is destined to be the next queen, so the two situations are not exactly the same.

What I am sure , however, is that Sussex Royal is something that was largely engineered by Meghan’s North American advisors,/ agents , Plan B then became Plan A , which is troubling.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Betsypaige

The more I read, the more upset I get with them. This rift with William could have been resolved if he told his brother how he felt and they got it all out in the open. Is Harry so unforgiving? Because, to be honest, he sounds as unbending as Meghan. I thought he’d gotten closer to his father lately - ironically because of Meghan- but Sarah Vine said in a piece written a few days ago that Harry had been distancing himself from Charles, from everyone. To my mind, both H and M are largely to blame for the “bad blood” they think exists.



https://twitter.com/re_dailymail/sta...374536704?s=21

I would not normally have been taking the various stories about them over the summer all that seriously but this business makes me think that ther was something in the stories..... that Meg and Harry have rightly or wrongly felt very stressed and not happy and that they HAVE been distanced from the RF.I think that it seems that its they who have doen the distancing.. Rather than going to Charles or WIlliam and admitting that they feel like wlaking away, they just seemed to wall up alone with the baby and avoid talking about it - possibly knowing that it would lead to conflict.