The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[JessRulz]

Why does anyone think the media/reporters are accurate in these claims? Seriously ppl..this is the media who have run around making false claims for years about all of them.


LaRae

Considering Dan Wootton was correct in his scoop on this matter, I think we can give him some credence on follow-up info.

 

[gerry]

Wouldn't residing part of the year in Canada be actually residing part of the year in a Commonwealth country? To me, that is actually highlighting their Commonwealth positions and goals to support and work for the Commonwealth nations.

I can't wrap my head around the supposition that Harry would blatantly blindside his grandmother. He's always seemed to be quite close to her and it seems so out of character for him to even *think* about hurting her in any way. The original statement issued said "We look forward to sharing the full details of this exciting next step in due course, as we continue to collaborate with Her Majesty The Queen, The Prince of Wales, The Duke of Cambridge, and all relevant parties. Until then, please accept our deepest thanks for your continued support.” I can't picture Harry being so underhanded as to state something like this and knowing well that no one else knew a thing about their plans. Just being logical here.

I also have read over and over again the statement "We intend to step back as ‘senior’ members of the Royal Family, and work to become financially independent.." Does this necessarily state point blank that "financially independent" as in relation to their own pockets and profit? Or could it mean that their work, their office and staff will be financially independent from the "Firm"?

The website now divides itself into three portions of where Harry and Meghan's goals are going to be. The Community, the Monarchy and the Commonwealth. Is that really so much different than what their aims were when they were with the "Firm"?

It'll be interesting to see how everything develops from here on out. I'm not going to even think of forming a judgement or opinion until the fog lifts on so many questions that have been presented just by all of us here in this thread. I'm sure everyone and their mailman's nemesis called "Fang" on Everyday Street has wheels turning like crazy in their heads over all this. ?

Thanks Osipi for the opportunity to share your 'wait and see' message, as well as this opinion piece from the Toronto Star on the Sussex announcement. Clearly the Duke and Duchess have had enough of the craziness surrounding their press/tabloid ascribed identities and want the ability to project their own messages rather than what the editors of the Sun or Evening Standard feel will sell their newspapers. Who is Dan Wootten anyway and who cares!? In the meantime, here is one Canadian's answer:
https://www.thestar.com/entertainme...free-now-come-to-canada-where-you-belong.html

 

[Mbruno]

I have been watching the UK Sky News and they have a Press Preview show where they discuss the headline stories from the papers. One of the commentators is saying that this is a worse crisis than Andrew AND that Harry and Meghan are actually republicans (he is a well-known republican). He is scathing about this decisions (well both the commentators are but the republican guy is stronger in condemning Harry and Meghan).

I have also heard some of the press are saying the decision by Harry and Meghan to not use the royal rota of correspondents will backfire on them as the other reporters will continue to get their stories or make them up.

Harry may or may not be a republican as you claim, but it sure looks like he was under some delusion that he and his wife could somehow become de facto a proxy Viceroy and Vicereine of Canada, which is not how the UK/Canada relationship works now ( as you, as an AustralIan, probably understand better than we do). And he was also under a delusion that he and his wife could be free agents within the Royal Famiily, carving out a new “ progressive role” for the institution outside the normal chain of command, as if he were more important than the heirs in direct line when, in reality, right now he is technically even less senior than his uncles in precedence.

Seriously, I can’t possibly imagine where this astonishing lack of judgment came from ( his wife or his own personal/emotional issues, or whatever).

 

[DeeT]

Just a few weeks ago, Wootton & the Sun claimed Harry & Meghan were in the US, when they were in Canada. Not sure why anyone would believe all that nonsense from a reporter associated with terrible past conduct, just based on 1 scoop..

I also saw the press reviews, no surprise, typical of those type of commentators they’ve never had anything positive to say about the Sussexes. I’m so glad the Royal Rota will not be used, they can focus on the Queen & her direct heirs, just as many of them wished for & had recently written numerous articles about.

 

[ACO]

Considering Dan Wootton was correct in his scoop on this matter, I think we can give him some credence on follow-up info.

He also was forced to admit he lied on another exclusive not to long ago. That said I credit him on this initial school of them leaving but all these added details now seem more like padding a story. But time will tell like it always does.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Why does anyone think the media/reporters are accurate in these claims? Seriously ppl..this is the media who have run around making false claims for years about all of them.


LaRae

Until today, I wouldn’t have given it credence, Now, I’m willing to at least entertain the idea as truth.

 

[kalnel]

I wonder how they are envisioning their future ventures without the royal connection. Meghan was a virtual unknown before the wedding -- a B-list celebrity on a cable show -- so it's not like she has the cachet of a George Clooney, Oprah, or the Obamas. And Harry has burned through a lot of goodwill by blindsiding the Queen with this.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

[...] I suspect the RF will try to strike a conciliatory tone [...]

I think they would be wise to strike a conciliatory tone, but a palace spokeswoman has surprisingly given another short statement to the BBC.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51041950

He also was forced to admit he lied on another exclusive not to long ago.

Can you provide a link to this?

 

[duke of poliganc]

Well, I can't say that I am shocked by this I did expect something like this with these two.

It's the arrogance and privilege at full force and a prat attitude.

They are both used to get the sympathy and benefit of the doubt from the son of the Princess of people who just want a normal life, to the African American who was never accepted by the archaic firm she married in to and the bad media.

I say to them walk a mile in The York's shoes or even a normal highschool kid who would have much rathered to get bad stories in the press while living in a palace, jets, a televised wedding, etc...

I remember when the "Prince" was applauded for attacking the media for speculation about him dating Meghan while at the same time saying that Sarah Ferguson was out of touch cause she fought back against one of the press attacks her daughters get on a daily basis.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

I confess that I have not had time to read through the entire thread - but what I have read so far has been very thoughtful and interesting.

Since the African tour, it has been obvious that they have been unhappy and are concerned that the stress may have undermined their health. For that reason, I think it is a good move and hope they will find a good balance moving forward.

I find it difficult to believe that Harry and Meghan did not discuss this with Charles and William, at least. It's possible they were not consulted about the timing - and it is also possible that palace didn't know about it yet. However, I find it hard to believe that Harry and Meghan would announce that Charles would continue funding their activities and they would continue to live at Frogmore and travel for the Queen, if they had not had any discussions with them.

I also sincerely doubt they were upset by the release of the photo of the Queen and her direct heirs. At the same time, it's hard to discern the current relationships among the family members. I could be wrong but when I watched their interview a few months ago I got the impression that Harry and Meghan felt the family was not being as supportive as they should have been. Mainly, I assume that because Harry and Meghan had several opportunities to say that the family had been supportive and didn't. To be fair, I'm not sure that Harry and Meghan know what they want and need, so it may be hard for their loved ones to know how to support them.

Obviously, Harry and Meghan want to create a new role in the family, but don't seem to be able to explain what that would look like. I wonder if it would have been less disruptive to simply tell the Queen and Charles that they want to cut back on their official appearances. I find it hard to believe that Charles and the Queen would have tried to force them to do things they did not want or would stop them from getting involved in any particular charitable cause. So the only thing that I can think of that would have been off limits is getting involved with politics. However, if they become political, it will be difficult (if not impossible) to support the Queen in any official capacity.

It certainly will be a change and I will be very interested to see what happens and what the other people on this board think about it.

 

[ACO]

I think they would be wise to strike a conciliatory tone, but a palace spokeswoman has surprisingly given another short statement to the BBC.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51041950

Can you provide a link to this?

I don't have a link but I am sure you can find the SUN retraction somewhere. It was his story they had to backtrack on. It wasn't that long ago. Maybe others remember? I know it was posted here.

 

[ladongas]

Who is the Money Man/Woman?

An endeavor like this will require large sums of money in pretty short order. They must have a mega-rich sponsor to help them get this thing off the ground. It will be interesting to see who’s signing the checks.

 

[dorop]

Very, very disappointing. They were my favorite royals, but I started to sour on them with the Africa documentary. The personal revelations they chose to include were unfortunate. Then to take the long break over Christmas, with Harry not even flying back when his 95 year old father was hospitalized. It just smacked of entitlement. Their lives are not that hard compared to most of The Queen's subjects. A beautiful home, all the money you could want, prestige, a worldwide platform, not to mention a beautiful son and each other. Even their work is nothing compared to the slog most of us have to go through to keep a roof over our heads. The tabloid press is poison, but others have had to run that gamut. It is best ignored. Instead, they tried to be secretive about even unimportant things, and that just got the reporters riled up even more. So many of their decisions have been poor; they have terrible PR instincts.

I sound like a hater, but I've been a big fan and have defended them time and time again. But now, with this move, I can't feel the same about them. From the disrespectful way they sprang this on the RF, to the horrid PR jargon of their announcement, to their apparent desire to have their cake and eat it, too, I feel so let down. If I were British, I think I'd feel angry.

Harry strikes me as a follower, and I get a sense that this is led by Meghan. The announcement is 100% her. She has always talked about her initiatives and interests in global terms, not UK terms. It stands to reason Britain and the BRF have little meaning for her. But they do have meaning for Harry. And that phrase about financial independence is scary. Do they plan to commercialize their titles? If so, their brand is going to be tarnished sooner than they would like. Being royal is what makes them.

(I love how Meghan plans to "collaborate" with the Queen? Big of her!)

I can't help thinking that Harry is going to have big regrets about allowing himself to be estranged from his family. I can't imagine it having happened without Meghan. On the other hand, Harry does seem pretty impulsive, so maybe he was the prime mover after all. Either way, I think he will regret it.

They are in for a shock if they think they can control their press now, or that it will be better. It's going to be worse, the scrutiny will be greater, probably the criticism too. Everyone who ever accused Meghan of merching is going to have a beady eye on their every move with Sussex Royal. And they've put themselves in an uncomfortable position in the UK.

Poor little Archie! All of this is swirling around over his innocent head. To think how cheered I was to see that cute photo of him and Harry, thinking they would soon be back, and all would be back to normal. And meanwhile this was being cooked up in the background. Well, perhaps I'm being overly cynical and it is all in his best interests in the end. I hope so.

 

[Countessmeout]

I am sorry most of that exclusive seems made up in fairy land. Harry is not going to quit over a generational photo. They have done them for years. He is not an idiot, he understands the symbolism.

It seems like someone grasping at straws. No one who actually has the inside ear to the queen, Charles or William would leak this crap.

I have my doubts that charles at the very least had no idea. If Harry plans to continue some royal duties he needs funding and they comes from dad. Think buckingham simply got blinded by When it was announced, not by the announcement. The leak made Harry jump the gun and announce sooner. Buckingham didn't have their announcement drafted yet and simply made a short release to deal with the talk.

As for not being able to keep up with commonwealth roles, why not? The commonwealth trust and ACU are not based in the UK. Meghan and Harry could both be involved heavily in commonwealth activities from a Canadian base. Both in Canada and abroad. Beyond the commonwealth nations, more important are the Queehs realms. And beyond Canada, many of them are in the Western Hemisphere.

Canadians will be happy to have them here. As we aren't footing their living expenses. Canada has a non existent republican movement outside Quebec, unlike Australia. If they were to take up some patronages here and be a face for the royals in canada may do good.

 

[dorop]

If that's true then this truly is nothing more than a temper tantrum of epic proportions thrown by two spoiled brats who saw themselves as far more central and important than they really are. Those were portraits of the Queen and her heirs. Period. They are the future and the continuity of the monarchy. Harry, Meghan, and Archie were never going to be that. They were never the heirs. If the historic portraits showing the Queen with three future generations of monarchs really set them off then they need to be sat down immediately and have it driven home in no uncertain terms that they are not nearly as central to the monarchy as they apparently believe themselves to be.

Besides, how could Harry be in the portrait if he was out of the country? (It appears to have been taken at the same time as the baking photos, over Christmas.)

 

[BaiSoSo]

If that's true then this truly is nothing more than a temper tantrum of epic proportions thrown by two spoiled brats who saw themselves as far more central and important than they really are. Those were portraits of the Queen and her heirs. Period. They are the future and the continuity of the monarchy. Harry, Meghan, and Archie were never going to be that. They were never the heirs. If the historic portraits showing the Queen with three future generations of monarchs really set them off then they need to be sat down immediately and have it driven home in no uncertain terms that they are not nearly as central to the monarchy as they apparently believe themselves to be.

I don't think that portrait had anything to do with this...some are just reaching for excuses to blame Meghan/Harry. It was clear back in September (long before the portrait or photos) that things weren't going well. The constant attacks by the media, lack of support from the family (while they can manage support for those accused of much worse or more trivial things), leaks to the media were far more likely to be factors than random pictures.

 

[Mbruno]

So, in the UK they will be keeping their Uk-funded security. But, when they are living in Canada for half of the year , will the Canadian government be responsible for their security ?

I am srill trying to understand what their legal status in Canada would be. Woulld Harry be an accredited UK diplomat with UK-funded security ? How would that square with not being a senior royal and being outside the RF’s chain of command ?

 

[Betsypaige]

I have serious reservations about using their royal status for profit. When Andrew’s profit making side-line came to light in the recent fiasco, his whole charity was ended. I am appalled.

And if Meghan and Harry were really upset that much by a photo of the Queen and her three direct heirs, then they are delusional.

I just read that article - and I’m almost incandescent with rage at what seems to be Harry throwing a fit and wanting to stick it to the Queen - his grandma, his father, brother and the rest of the BRF. Add on the fact that they are whoring themselves out for profit and I’m just done with them. Good riddance.

 

[Somebody]

An endeavor like this will require large sums of money in pretty short order. They must have a mega-rich sponsor to help them get this thing off the ground. It will be interesting to see who’s signing the checks.

Meghan knows how to make money by writing blog posts (and having sponsors). Speaking engagements could be another potential way of earning lots of money. Not sure whether Harry might profit from his Travalyst role if he would want to. Merchandize of their Sussex brand could turn out to be rather popular (at least for a short while).

The fact that they are quite open about how they want to be able to professionally earn money but other than that only talk about spending time in the UK and North America and launching their charitable entity, suggests that they are not looking for 'normal day jobs' but more likely to big bucks sponsoring them, writing books, doing speaking engagements etc (like other celebrities combining both getting/staying rich and doing charitable work). So far, this is meant to be in addition to the 95% of their current funding they expect to keep receiving from Charles; but I do see them becoming 'financially independent' in time. But we'll have to see how all plays out, because that's the part that remains rather 'unspecific' even though they prepared a long page on 'funding' for their website.

 

[nightsky]

To be honest, I really don't know what to think. I'm reading that they can't have titles and make money, like going on QVC. So I just don't know how this will play itself out. I wish them the best, but I don't think this will stop the press, especially the British. As for the Firm not supporting them. Who knows? It sounds to me like both Harry and Meghan don't really know what they need or want!

 

[_Heather_]

I don't think that portrait had anything to do with this...some are just reaching for excuses to blame Meghan/Harry. It was clear back in September (long before the portrait or photos) that things weren't going well. The constant attacks by the media, lack of support from the family (while they can manage support for those accused of much worse or more trivial things), leaks to the media were far more likely to be factors than random pictures.

Well some things never change. I'm so incredibly sick of this screaming about "a lack of support from the family" and blaming of everyone and everything but Harry and Meghan for their missteps. There's plenty of blame to go around but I'm so tired of this line that there's no blame to be placed on these two. Why in the world would the family or the Firm go out of their way to throw "support" behind a couple who have done nothing but turn their noses up at every aspect of the Firm and family right from the beginning? In their desire to be progressive and edgy and modern they managed to make themselves seem ungrateful and disrespectful and came across like they viewed the Queen and the family as a lot of dotty old relatives that you occasionally humor but don't set much store by. That's horribly offensive and not exactly the kind of attitude and behavior that wins you a lot of "support" and defense and goodwill. Much of this can be laid squarely at Harry and Meghan's doorstep and if they had stepped back and looked outside of themselves for even a few minutes they might have realized long ago that they were shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[King of the Jungle]

This is so left of field that I wonder whether there is another major issue.

I can't see any benefit for them.
I can't see Harry and Meghan being happy to be as supportively polite and as diplomatic as other royals who do their own thing.
Prince and Princess Michael, The Duchess of Kent, The Snowdons, Chattos, Phillips and Tindalls all voice positve and show positive regard to the Queen and the Monarchy but they are relativley quiet and very low key about promoting their own agenda.
Perhaps Harry and Meghan intend to only promote good causes - not themselves.
I worry about their safety and personal earning ability if that is the case.
I do predict that the BRF will react with calm and respect.

 

[Mbruno]

On “ lack of support from the family” , one of the Palace “ sources” quoted by the press said that they were given the wedding they wanted, the home they wanted, the office they wanted, the money they wanted , and got to pick the tours and patronages they wanted. He concluded then by asking what else they wanted !

It may be. a one-sided account, but it is true nonetheless.

 

[Al_bina]

From Dan Wootton, who had the exclusive on the move: ... [snipped]
"I’m told Harry and Meghan decided to rush out a statement after learning yesterday that The Sun was about to break the story. In doing so, courtiers say they have “exiled themselves from the royal family”."

One wonders who sold the story to The Sun. On a different note, The Duke of Sussex and his spouse can do whatever they wish to do.

 

[soapstar]

I have my doubts that charles at the very least had no idea. If Harry plans to continue some royal duties he needs funding and they comes from dad. Think buckingham simply got blinded by When it was announced, not by the announcement. The leak made Harry jump the gun and announce sooner. Buckingham didn't have their announcement drafted yet and simply made a short release to deal with the talk.

Yep. They weren’t blinded about Harry and Meghan wanting to leave - they knew that, they were blindsided about Harry and Meghan announcing it now when a decision hadn’t even been made yet.

This was still in the early stages, so I wouldn’t expect BP to have a draft ready. Hard to draft a statement when they are still trying to work through and figure this all out.

It seems the BRF was “disappointed” in the Sussexes decision to release a statement (from the BBC link posted in a previous post).

The BBC understands no other royal, including neither the Queen nor the Prince of Wales, was consulted before the unexpected statement was released on Wednesday evening.

A palace spokeswoman told the BBC the Royal Family was "disappointed”. She said discussions with the couple were at an early stage. "We understand their desire to take a different approach, but these are complicated issues that will take time to work through," she added.

I’m shocked that the Sussexes released a statement before informing the Queen and Prince Charles and before anything had even been decided.

 

[marlene]

I wonder if this decision might have more to do with Harry’s mental health than anything. In all honesty we have almost no proof of Meghan doing all the things she is accused of so we should really only consider the facts that we do know. Harry has shared the troubles he has had and said how difficult it was for him when Diana died. Perhaps he is struggling with the media vitriol towards Meghan and is terrified. As for the financial independence I think that would be a good thing and then no one can complain about what ever designer Meghan is wearing. I remember the media and how they went after Diana but times have changed and they are far nastier now than they were then. My guess is that they will still live primarily in the uk but have a holiday place perhaps in Canada. Archie will one day go to school and that will mean a more permanent home in one of the two places they spend time in. I’m sad that it has come to this as I don’t think either of them deserves the treatment they have received. I’m also sad for the Queen as this is a sadness for the family.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

I don't think that portrait had anything to do with this...some are just reaching for excuses to blame Meghan/Harry. It was clear back in September (long before the portrait or photos) that things weren't going well. The constant attacks by the media, lack of support from the family (while they can manage support for those accused of much worse or more trivial things), leaks to the media were far more likely to be factors than random pictures.

I agree that Harry and Meghan seem to believe the royal family has not been supportive, but I am not sure it is fair to accept that it is all the family's fault. Harry and Meghan are both in their thirties. They have each other and they have a staff. Yes, there are some pressures unique to the royal family, but they also don't have the stress of many things other people face, such as not being able to pay their bills or serious illnesses.

The other family members have their own lives and pressures. Familial support should be a two way street. The family shouldn't revolve around them. His grandparents are in their 90s and probably should be receiving support from them, rather than the other way around. William has his own family. I find it difficult to believe that Charles, who was so supportive of Harry and Meghan during their engagement and the first few months of marriage (and I'm not talking about just walking her down the aisle), has simply abandoned them.

My guess is that, if there is a problem, Harry and Meghan have been unable to clearly communicate their needs. As adults, Harry and Meghan have to be part of the solution.

 

[ACO]

On “ lack of support from the family” , one of the Palace “ sources” quoted by the press said that they were given the wedding they wanted, the home they wanted, the office they wanted, the money they wanted , and got to pick the tours and patronages they wanted. He concluded then by asking what else they wanted !

It may be. a one-sided account, but it is true nonetheless.

And Meghan says no one even bothered to ask if she was okay. Maybe it lies somewhere in the middle. No one is all right or wrong. I mean heck in this mess some could just trying to save face. We have zero idea because we have no clue what the REAL dynamics of these people are. We just know what they want us to know and most of the time that is rarely the truth... unless forced out.

All we know based on what was issued is that Harry and Meghan want out of royal duties. My guess is that the Queen and Charles were trying to get them to wait a bit but the Sussexes have made up their mind. Maybe this statement was to force their hand. Maybe that website was to provoke. I don't know.

But what I can guess is that Harry and Meghan are not naive and know they can't be half a royal. They either will be all in or leave. If they are given that ultimatum I suspect we will be getting another statement saying they are no longer HRH or a member of the royal family.

These next few days will be very very interesting.

 

[Al_bina]

If the Sussexes wanted the element of surprise as a sort of leverage, they have it. For about 48 hours is my guess.

Then they lose whatever advantage they might have had because I find it hard to believe that no one at BP has long since gamed out what might happen if they took this tack.

Interesting days ahead at BP, BBC, DM, etc.

And that means interesting days at The Royal Forums as well. God bless the mods!

my bolding
Right you are!

 

[Mbruno]

I wonder if this decision might have more to do with Harry’s mental health than anything. In all honesty we have almost no proof of Meghan doing all the things she is accused of so we should really only consider the facts that we do know. Harry has shared the troubles he has had and said how difficult it was for him when Diana died. Perhaps he is struggling with the media vitriol towards Meghan and is terrified. As for the financial independence I think that would be a good thing and then no one can complain about what ever designer Meghan is wearing. I remember the media and how they went after Diana but times have changed and they are far nastier now than they were then. My guess is that they will still live primarily in the uk but have a holiday place perhaps in Canada. Archie will one day go to school and that will mean a more permanent home in one of the two places they spend time in. I’m sad that it has come to this as I don’t think either of them deserves the treatment they have received. I’m also sad for the Queen as this is a sadness for the family.

I don’t see any major issue about Harry and Meghan living in Canada as private citizens provided they can sort out their immigration status, which should not be too difficult ( although Harry for example would struggle under the Canadian point system as he doesn’t have a university degree, doesn’t speak French , etc.).

My concern is about Harry seeking to have any public role in Canada as the Canadian constitution, as I argued before, assigns no official public role to members of the Royal Family other than the Queen of Canada herself and, unlike his great-granduncle, the late Duke of Gloucester, who was Governor General of Australia (?), Harry will not be Governor General / Viceroy of Canada. As I said, Harry could be an accredited UK diplomat in Canada, with the UK government paying for his housing , maintenance and security, but that doesn’t square with his desire to be a free agent and carve out his own progressive role without being constrained by instructions from Buckingham Palace or the Foreign Office.

On the other hand, Canada paying for the maintenance of a British Prince, who is not a Canadian citizen and has no official position in the Canadian government or any Canadian federal or provincial agency/department, certainly won’t fly well with the Canadian public and is not a realistic option. That is completely different from an occasional Royal Family tour on the invitation of the Canadian government.

I wish Harry and Meghan would provide further details on their Canadian base and how that is supposed to work. Maybe they could set up a private foundation /charity run fom Toronto or Vancouver , but then we are talking about them living in Canada as private citizens only , with no public or diplomatic role, and the issue of their security for example would arise again.