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  #2301  
Old 01-13-2020, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
A long dating period, followed by a long engagement?
By which time Meghan would be nearing forty and the possibilities of her having any children (very much wanted by Harry) would be rapidly receding into the distance. All these arguments for and against a long pre engagement period were thrashed out at great length in the appropriate thread at the time.

It's been said that no-one knows what Royal life is really like unless and until you are actually living it, and to a large degree I agree with that. Harry was also a full time Royal on his wedding day, so there could not be any gradual part time induction into the role such as Kate had.

Plus, I do not believe that it was primarily her role in fulfilling engagements that put Meghan off living in Britain. She usually looked as if she was hugely enjoying it. I saw the couple on their Australian tour and that seemed genuinely to be the case. IMO the vile and incessant criticism she received from the British tabloids from the beginning has played a large part in this.
I completely agree with you ! I share your opinion.
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  #2302  
Old 01-13-2020, 10:54 PM
ACO ACO is online now
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
There has been one polo match over the summer that both William's and Harry's family attended. Unfortunately, there was hardly any interaction between them. I seem to remember Louis trying to get some attention from Archie but Meghan was holding him close, so that was about it.
There were cute pictures of Louis in Kate's shades trying to interact with Meghan and Archie. One picture of Louis touching Archie's foot.
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  #2303  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
Yes- that is my biggest takeaway: deep sadness and hurt. Which frankly matches “sources” statements too.

I do suspect everyone hasn’t moved out of the “anger’” phase yet, but that would not be a constructive sentiment to express.
I think they probably expressed some of that anger when H and M dropped the bombshell, but it’s been a few days and that naturally will cool tempers. More practically, continued anger isn’t productive, and it’s neither going to make Harry feel any better nor convince him to change his mind. The only thing HM and Charles can really do is express their love for Harry and make sure he understands that they want him to be happy. I imagine they spoke of their disappointment - and their hope that one day he’d return to the fold.
  #2304  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I think they probably expressed some of that anger when H and M dropped the bombshell, but it’s been a few days and that naturally will cool tempers. More practically, continued anger isn’t productive, and it’s neither going to make Harry feel any better nor convince him to change his mind. The only thing HM and Charles can really do is express their love for Harry and make sure he understands that they want him to be happy. I imagine they spoke of their disappointment - and their hope that one day he’d return to the fold.
Its never been in the plan that they'd be leaving the fold. Just not as many engagements and duties and tours that are expected of full time senior working royals. No matter what happens from here on out, they'll still be part and parcel of the family and all inclusive with being part time inclusive in the "Firm" side of things.

At least that's how I interpret it.
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  #2305  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
By most accounts Charles' relationship with William has vastly improved over the years, particularly as William has grown older and taken on more responsibilities and seems more able to understand his father's work and duties and responsibilities. And based on pictures and videos it would appear that both William and Kate have quite lovely relationships with Charles and Camilla, particularly as time has gone on. And I agree, William/Kate and Charles/Camilla are very much going to need each other's support going forward, though it does seem as though the older couple is well-preparing the younger couple for their future lives with much help from the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh.
I wouldn’t be surprised if their relationship was complicated early on because William was older and he knew more of the problems in his parents’ relationship. I’ve read they disagree in several issues, but that’s ok - lol, probably no one has disagreed more than Philip and Charles. You just deal with it and move on. I recall William talking about how his father passed on his concern for the environment, recycling, etc..in “Charles at 70”. That was really lovely, seeing William talk about wishing his dad could take some time off and spend it with his grandkids as he’s “brilliant”. I love seeing Charles with George, Louis and Charlotte - just precious. I’m really happy that he has such good relationships with his daughters-in-law.

William is lucky in that he has pretty amazing people to look up to and to guide him towards his future kingship. HM’s father, George VI, prepared her brilliantly - and she’s become perhaps England’s greatest monarch. Charles has been prepared all his life, and his life had been spent doing good works.. The monarchy’s future is solid (but, they still need Harry)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Its never been in the plan that they'd be leaving the fold. Just not as many engagements and duties and tours that are expected of full time senior working royals. No matter what happens from here on out, they'll still be part and parcel of the family and all inclusive with being part time inclusive in the "Firm" side of things.

At least that's how I interpret it.
You’re right ....thanks for reminding me! I wonder what these part time duties, etc.... will entail? I guess they’ll work that out...and I do still look forward to seeing them on occasions like Trooping the Colour, etc..l
  #2306  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:18 PM
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I have to admit that I'm really, really going to miss all of those wonderful pictures and videos of Harry and Kate. Theirs was always one of my absolute favorite relationships within the BRF and it was clear that they genuinely enjoyed each other's company. I always looked forward to events that both would be at because it was almost a guarantee that at some point throughout the engagement, barring a very serious event like Remembrance Sunday, we would get to see those pictures of them speaking closely and laughing together. I know that it's not a new thing that they no longer seem to have that relationship, it's been the case for close to three years now for the most part, but with these recent developments I think it's probably safe to say that we've seen our last picture of these two laughing, joking, and appearing for all the world like very, very close friends. I know that I've seen others express the same sadness at the loss of this particular relationship and I have to wonder if they themselves miss this relationship as much as many of us do. I would imagine that they do, though of course I can't speak for them.
  #2307  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:24 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
no public-funded security,
Edward has had, and probably always will have, 24/7 security.

At the time that the Wessex's were trying to operate as private individuals Sophie also had 24/7 security. She only lost it after the review in 2012 that stripped that level of security from her, the Gloucesters and Kents who all only have security when on official duties and the York girls who lost it when they had finished their education.
  #2308  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I wouldn’t be surprised if their relationship was complicated early on because William was older and he knew more of the problems in his parents’ relationship. I’ve read they disagree in several issues, but that’s ok - lol, probably no one has disagreed more than Philip and Charles. You just deal with it and move on. I recall William talking about how his father passed on his concern for the environment, recycling, etc..in “Charles at 70”. That was really lovely, seeing William talk about wishing his dad could take some time off and spend it with his grandkids as he’s “brilliant”. I love seeing Charles with George, Louis and Charlotte - just precious. I’m really happy that he has such good relationships with his daughters-in-law.

William is lucky in that he has pretty amazing people to look up to and to guide him towards his future kingship. HM’s father, George VI, prepared her brilliantly - and she’s become perhaps England’s greatest monarch. Charles has been prepared all his life, and his life had been spent doing good works.. The monarchy’s future is solid (but, they still need Harry)
I would agree that their relationship was quite complicated early on for a vast number of reasons. But, as with most of us, I think with age has come understanding and wisdom for William and with age and happiness has come a bit of a relaxation and not such a rigid viewpoint for Charles and that's a very, very good combination for the father/son relationship. I remember the quote you're speaking of from William about Charles passing on his dedication to the environment and wishing he could spend more time with the grandchildren and I seem to recall some sort of lovely comment from Charles recently about William becoming more and more involved with the Duchy. I also very much believe, based on photo and video evidence in moments that aren't tightly controlled and scripted, that Kate has terrific relationships with both Charles and Camilla and more and more over the last couple of years we've been treated to some sweet pictures of them with the grandchildren. They may not get to spend as much time with them as William, and presumably Catherine, would wish they could but it's clear that the children are all quite fond of them and probably very much enjoy the time they do get with Grandpa Wales. For the record, I'd be curious to know if they refer to Camilla as Camilla or if they have some other sweet name for her. Does anyone actually know? And, not that anyone really asked me, but I do believe that William has a pretty good relationship with Camilla. I don't believe that she ever had any intention of even trying to replace his mother and no one could replace her for him but I think they've clearly found a friendship and a happy coexistence not only for Charles' sake but because they genuinely do seem to like each other.
  #2309  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:29 PM
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I'm going to divert a little bit back to the discussion about the trademarks and the various areas that were presented in the applications for trademarks.

Without them, I could go into business and produce and market a product called Sussex Royal Crown Cola. Oh waitaminute here... I'd run into trouble with Cadbury (then Cadbury Schweppes) that owns the trademark for Royal Crown Cola through its acquisition of Snapple. Maybe for us royal watchers that gather to watch royal weddings and coronations, I could market Sussex Royal Crown whiskey! Oh waitaminute. Royal Crown whiskey is already trademarked.

Just because something is trademarked, it doesn't necessarily mean something is going to be marketed but rather the "brand name" protected from being used in a whole lot of different areas as I've pointed out.
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  #2310  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I'm going to divert a little bit back to the discussion about the trademarks and the various areas that were presented in the applications for trademarks.

Without them, I could go into business and produce and market a product called Sussex Royal Crown Cola. Oh waitaminute here... I'd run into trouble with Cadbury (then Cadbury Schweppes) that owns the trademark for Royal Crown Cola through its acquisition of Snapple. Maybe for us royal watchers that gather to watch royal weddings and coronations, I could market Sussex Royal Crown whiskey! Oh waitaminute. Royal Crown whiskey is already trademarked.

Just because something is trademarked, it doesn't necessarily mean something is going to be marketed but rather the "brand name" protected from being used in a whole lot of different areas as I've pointed out.
You're certainly not wrong. But I think that with the trademarks issue, just as with most of the issues this mess has brought up, we're just going to have to wait and see how it all plays out. If the trademarks have been placed simply to keep others from using them then there's no problem at all. If they've been placed because there will be a range of products with 100% of the profits going to a non-profit organization to fund a myriad of good works then again, no problem. However, if those trademarks have been placed in order to create a line of merchandise whose sale will line the personal pockets of Harry and Meghan who are making significant personal profits or "professional income" off the backs of their Sussex titles then that's a significant problem on a number of fronts. I admit that I can certainly see where the concern is coming from given the emphasis in their statement regarding "financial independence" and "professional income." I, like most of those commenting here, will be interested to see which path this trademark business all takes.
  #2311  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
You know perfectly well that the situation is completely different,. Edward and Sophie never quit the country to build a global business brand overseas monetizing their royal titles and claiming to be “ disrupting “ the Royal Family in the process. And they never treated the Queen the way Harry treated his grandmother , his father and his brother with veiled threats and unexpected public announcements designed to push them to a corner.

Poor Edward and Sophie just tried to live normal, ordinary lives as some of their princely friends in the continent do. No Oprah, no multiple homes in Windsor, Whistler and Toronto, no public-funded
security, no Wessex Royal trademark in 3 continents covering stationery, sports goods ,clothing , alcoholic beverages and even self-help /support groups, no Disney or AppleTv plus deals, etc etc

Seriously , how can anyone even consider comparing the two situations ?
Oh so it would be okay if Meghan and Harry were doing it in the UK and not moving to Canada?? I forgot they have to be within national borders and only support the UK.

Edward and Sophie did create a business. And if you think for one second they weren’t cashing in on his title you are fooling yourself. Edward wasn’t getting his work based on his talent. He very much got it as son of the queen. And should we list the name of celebrities Edward rubbed elbows with for business???

Tax payers aren’t buying them a house in Canada or paying for their life. So who cares if they have two homes. Not the only royals with two homes.

And FYI the Wessexes had security 24/7 publicaly funded in those days.
  #2312  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
You know perfectly well that the situation is completely different,. Edward and Sophie never quit the country to build a global business brand overseas monetizing their royal titles and claiming to be “ disrupting “ the Royal Family in the process. And they never treated the Queen the way Harry treated his grandmother , his father and his brother with veiled threats and unexpected public announcements designed to push them to a corner.

Poor Edward and Sophie just tried to live normal, ordinary lives as some of their princely friends in the continent do. No Oprah, no multiple homes in Windsor, Whistler and Toronto, no public-funded
security, no Wessex Royal trademark in 3 continents covering stationery, sports goods ,clothing , alcoholic beverages and even self-help /support groups, no Disney or AppleTv plus deals, etc etc

Seriously , how can anyone even consider comparing the two situations ?
Edward has always been accused to been the wimp, homosexual, coward ect. for decades for quitting the Marines when he felt it right and not doing his loyalty and right to the crown . This hasn't changed - just look at the comments on every press he gets or the twitter page. All public opinion of Edward is negative. Only reason the press doesn't flame it is Sophie rates high with women of a older generation. So they ignore them. But if there is an opportunity to thrown them into the fire they do. They are not attractive and appealing to the younger generation. Yes - the world is full of hypocritics and bullies. But they don't care to acknowledge them that gives them power.

A look at the engagement stats will show that although Edward and Sophie has full time jobs they were still carrying out a significant amount of engagements.

The difference is Edward knew his lot in life from as soon as he was old enough. He wasn't paid special attention to by the Queen Mother and Lord Mountbatten, he wasn't groomed for any role in the future. He knew it and accepted it.
  #2313  
Old 01-14-2020, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
Edward and Sophie did create a business. And if you think for one second they weren’t cashing in on his title you are fooling yourself. Edward wasn’t getting his work based on his talent. He very much got it as son of the queen. And should we list the name of celebrities Edward rubbed elbows with for business??? Oh wait they were British so it’s forgiven.
How can anyone ever forget that Edward not only had celebrities but also his own royal family lined up in a row for a television show (albeit a television show for charitable causes) called "Its A Royal Knockout". There was nothing close to "regal" or "royal" behavior on that show and to be honest, I found it actually quite amusing watching it years and years later.
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  #2314  
Old 01-14-2020, 12:13 AM
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So the morning papers in my cubtry have come to my work place, not much about it.
One paper (a pretty left wing leaning publication but trust worthy for the most part) on its local version had a small write up about it with secretary Patel statement about the lack of racism in Britain. This was on page 9 of 14.
The English version, which is essentially a local NYT print has Afua infuriating op-ad.

The most major local paper, which has like many other papers in the world that were once news only and serious has turned into seeker of sensationalized news mixed with proper news but with errors. They did had a portion of the middle section to it, but have a few points which we know are incorrect thrown in, the biggest that caught my eye was the supposed fued between Catherine and Meghan. And claiming the talks were a failure.

Both papers were talking about the fact that many were putting the blame for this mess mainly on Meghan and her lack of willingness to adapt to royal life and putting the blame for it on the press. - you know my point of view on that.

I have no idea what the news shows are saying as I do not have a tv not watch the news at the moment (we’re in the midst of election season, again, in under a year trying to kick our corrupt PM)
  #2315  
Old 01-14-2020, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evolvingdoors View Post
I’ll only answe about the having kids part: this is the 21st century where women have children later and later in life. Amal and George Clooney had their twins when she was 38!
Sophie had James at around the same age, even later.

Having babies post 40 is no longer an odd pregnancy. Many women have multiple ones, without the need for an IVF.

And honestly, I never got the maternal vibe from Meghan as opposed to Catherine. She is a career woman through and through, that much is obvious. I’m sure she loves Harrison, but you can tell by the few interactions we have had of her with him on camera she looks very uneasy with him (perhaps this will change as he grows up).
As much as I agree that they would have benefited from a longer engagement I do agree that wanting children was a consideration for them. Anything over 35 is a geriatric pregnancy. Possible to get pregnant...sure. Guaranteed definitely not. Also, choices like suragcy would be at best complicated for them. I expect that baby number 2 will happen in the not distant future.

Born royal get a slow introduction to royal life. As children they do the walk to church at Christmas, wave from the balcony and basically get use to strangers being interested in them. As they get older they they take on more. Kate was lucky because she got married to William when he was still in this phase. Meghan married a fully trained royal, so she was thrown into the deep end. I don't think this was against her will. She's industrious and was anxious to start her new life.

We talk about royal fiancees going to 'Princess school'. I think they need to. Learning protocol etcetera is the easy part. You can study that. Future royal brides should get a much longer onboarding period. It should be made plain when they join the family that the public should not expect them to ramp up too quickly. Give them 5 years to become full-time royals. William and Harry got that. Why should royal brides get less? It worked for Kate and Sophie. Meghan is certainly not the first royal bride to find it a challenging transition.
  #2316  
Old 01-14-2020, 12:23 AM
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The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

Giving it some thought, it makes sense the meeting was short.

I think the basics more or less were what they were: no one is going to force them to stay in the U.K. full time or remain full time royals. Some level of financial change goes with that.

With that in mind, I can see them starting to work though the details based on that reality - and being given time to think about the consequences. That and there are likely questions that are still outstanding.

I don’t think this is as simple a move or as popular of one as Harry and Meghan thought it would be. They already had some idea of how the family felt- they had to- which in some ways makes the website tone even more astonishing. (That they published it at all is still mind blowing to me.) But I suspect they thought the public would be more supportive. Of course, there is some support, but less than I think expected.

Though public sentiment would have been very different if they’d just kept quiet until the matter was settled.
  #2317  
Old 01-14-2020, 12:37 AM
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This has probably been clarified on this thread but I thought I'd post this from Peerage News re H&M's titles

https://peeragenews.blogspot.com/202...nd-titles.html
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  #2318  
Old 01-14-2020, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
Me too. I'm setting aside my emotions and asking so what? Set aside that the Sussexes are tossing in the full time towel and you have a life a lot like the really years of the Cambridge marriage. Which had William enjoying a very normal job for as long as he could. Which had a lot of time to be together and grow the kids. In fact, it still has a fair amount of that, given they have defined their work life for being around their children.

It was the Sussexes who leapt into MODERN FULL TIME royalty (not like their elders, but their style of full time) so quickly. Maybe that was not such a great choice. Maybe they were overconfident.

Time will tell whether they enjoy this 50/50 lifestyle, continue to not enjoy the firm, stay together and most of all have to face some unacceptable racism on a regular basis. I don't think any of us know. I don't think they know for sure.

I do think that as a family they need the same time and space Kate and Wills took. I think some resolution to the racist hatred will be easier to achieve as non-full-time royals.

I don't think it's a terrible thing BUT I ALSO think it looks a lot like Kate and Wills - the Early Years in a lot of ways.

Time will tell and I never wish ill on anyone. What's the point of that?
I have not seen that much of them and agree Meghan was probably to quick on her own route, but worked too hard?
I think if HM had proposed something similar the Cambridges had with living in thw countryside having a normal job how could this have worked? Harry knows nothing to so what job should it have been and Meghan off from the limelight, this is not what they achieved for.
But we will see😉
  #2319  
Old 01-14-2020, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post

"What they can’t do is expect either the taxpayer or Prince Charles to fund their lifestyle and security if they’re giving nothing back, or to cash in on the royal name.
Excuse me? of course they can! the reason they need it in the first place is the fact that Harry is royal and Meghan and Archie are sharing his need for security through their association.
Meghan did not need this type of security before she became Royal the need for it happened after she joined the family. This was when she was subjected to hatred and and racism and where she was expected to put up with it personally and having her beautiful first born child being compared to a monkey just a few days old.
Im proud of them being responsible parents putting their family first and not putting up with the ridiculous demands of a petulant British public. Harry isa spare but he is also royal from birth he should be allowed to retain his birthright but live a life that is not attached dependently on royal duty. So it appears the Queen is also supportive what you think the rest of the family the Queen as well were not hurt by the hatred and the racism? Im sure that high on the list of avoidance is another Diana episode which the media seemed hell bent on recreating.
  #2320  
Old 01-14-2020, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Osipi, that was beautifully stated ....I hope that Harry has seen how much everyone loves and values him, and that he perhaps might reconsider his stance down the line. His father and brother will need him
Will they? HE has shown himself and his wife has also shown to be very unreliable. perhaps they have mental helath issues that means they can't help it but eiter way, it doesn't seem a good plan to try and depend on either of them
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