The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[evolvingdoors]

Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher

I'm not really sure that living together for a longer period have prevented this situation. Harry obviously loves Meghan more than he loves being a full-time royal (which I don't think he was overly wild about anyway. If they had lived together for a while, they may have realized that Meghan didn't want to live a royal life, but they would be in the same place.

I disagree.
2 year ago before the engagement was announced and we were talking about it, despite being very new to the website I said, even back then, that it will be a good idea for them to take it slow and not rush things. To find a way for her to come live in the U.K. on a visa (she could have qualified for an artist visa, because even though Suits was a shitty show it had enough interest in it that Meghan could have made a strong argument to be eligible for it).
This would have allowed them the freedom to date peacefully while living in the same continent let alone city, would have allows Meghan the time to learn about Britain as a resident, and would have allowed the royal family to get to know her and her them and by so learn what will be expected of her as a royal wife.
she would have either bolted or not. But at least the excuse of “she had no idea” would not have worked.

So yes, I think dating and possibly living together would be very beneficial for a royal couple.
Honestly Catherine, Sophie, Camilla (to a degree), The Queen and Prince Philip! There are, i’m sure more examples to prove that this works!

And what would have been bad about them realiing she is unfit for royal duties ahead of time? Chelsy realized she had no desire to live the royal bowl, and bowed out. FYI, Harry despite claiming to want to live a private life, stayed and did not follow her.
Knowing ahead of time because they dated for a couple more years would have given them the time to weight all their options and make an educated mature decision not based on first year honeymoon dating infatuation stage.

We will have to disagree about the fact that he loves Meghan. Or she him.

[Leopoldine]

Originally Posted by rob2008

Meghan gave marriage into the BRF a go, didnt like it and has moved on.

I wonder what reception she would get if she came back to the UK? It is not impossible that she will be snubbed for what she has done to HMQ and Philip.

Now that the racism card is out of the bottle, she would no longer be able to fight back with accusations of racism. The subject has been raised explicitly, it's out there. Everyone is so acutely aware of the racism accusations, every criticism would be scrutinised and if anyone wishes to be racist, they would know not to be - secondly, if it happened there would be severe suppression and condemnation. So this is a key defence that is no longer going to operate in the future surely.

Harry will always be one of ours - but will there be a cooling in the relatinship as well? Could he be snubbed for the above reasons - or worse?

Their son will one day be Duke of Sussex and probably by then he will be a distant minor celebrity - maybe big in the tv magazines (or their cultural equivalent in 50 years)

Interesting post [...]. The couple seems to not be given anything of substantive value outside of leases and loans.

Maybe there's a precedent. HM technically owned Sunninghill when Andrew and Sarah divorced. Sarah, from press reporting at the time, had no ownership in that property. Then it was sold, and Andrew profited mightily as the owner!

[_Heather_]

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

Was Edward ever accused of betraying his parents when he and sophie pursued their business? Was William accused of breaking his grandfather's heart when he spent years flying and not as a working Royal??

I completely understand that for the vast majority of the [...] Sussex fans there will always be these attempts at "but what about...?" However, we all know that in these two examples there's absolutely no comparison to be made.

First, and most crucially, in the case of Edward and Sophie, they made it clear throughout their relationship and when they married that they did not intend to be full time royals and that their model would be very much like that of some of more distant royals and much like what we currently see from the York girls. They'd keep their careers, live a quiet life, go on about their business, enjoy their time with the family, and only represent the Queen when specifically asked to do so in the one off and odd situations. Those circumstances changed down the line but they didn't start off with this "all-in" mentality and then later drop a bombshell resignation complete with demands that we've seen in the Sussex situation. I have no doubt that had HM asked them to step up to full time work at the beginning of their marriage they would have done so out of respect for her. But that wasn't the case. I fully believe that had Harry and Meghan made clear at the time of their marriage that this would be their path there would be no drama and chaos. They would have been allowed to take the path that Edward and Sophie started out on and that would be that.

In William's case, there was never at any time a refusal to perform his duties as a senior member of the royal family. The RF has always seen military service as a very appropriate and worthy career path and since the crux of their existence centers around serving others, I suspect they also see his service as an air ambulance pilot in that same light. Even while performing his duties in the military and with the air ambulance he performed duties and engagements on behalf of both himself and his interests and those of the Queen and the monarchy. Yes, it was less than full time, but every bit of that was with not only the agreement of the Queen but quite obviously with her blessing and I'd venture to say even interest and pride given what we know of her feelings regarding service and those lovely images of her being shown around the helicopters by William. Given his background in the military I have no doubt that Prince Philip was and is exceedingly proud of William's service in both the military and the air ambulance and, I suspect, quite proud of the fact that he balanced that with continuing to perform a reduced level of duties and engagements. There's quite a difference between doing something honorable that means your duties must drop to a part-time level with the wholehearted agreement of the Queen and Prince Philip and flat out refusing to do the job that you're supposed to be doing and breaking that news in as explosive a way as possible.

[texankitcat]

Originally Posted by Sionevar

I was going to post a message wondering what lessons the BRF will learn from this, how they will handle the 'onboarding' of future royal brides to ensure they understand what they're getting into...

...then I realized we probably won't see another royal bride until Prince George or Prince Louis marries, which could easily be 25-30 years from now.

Oof.

How is this the BRF’s fault?

[Gawin]

Originally Posted by Eskimo

It had to be...

As a Canadian, I follow Canadian media and you should have seen the overwhelming negative reaction to previous article. There were multiple calls for opposition parties to band together and defeat the government in a motion of no confidence (Trudeau leads a minority government). Trudeau might want to do the BRF a solid and pay for Harry and Meghan's security while they stay in Canada on a semi-permanent basis but he is not willing to lose his job over it.

Thanks for the "insider" knowledge. Out of curiosity I took a look at the Toronto Star website:

https://www.thestar.com/politics/fed...k-tabloid.html


It includes a link to a more detailed article from Global News:

https://globalnews.ca/news/6405546/t...ecurity-costs/

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by sndral

Wait - what? Has Anne issued a statement? If not, then imputing an opinion to her is a disservice to her, IMO. I do recall that when asked about the news of one of the Cambridge pregnancies - George, I believe, - she said it was nothing to do with her and my guess is that her attitude about the current situation is much the same - none of her business.
I do find it interesting that her son Peter is reported to be at Sandringham, years ago I read that he and William were close. He also lived outside of the country for awhile.

Peter apparently took guests to church yesterday, so yes, at Sandringham. And it wouldn't be surprising if he would indeed be spending time with William and Catherine. I can imagine they'd like to have some trusted friends to talk about all that is happening; and cousins Peter & Autumn might be the right persons to do (and maybe the queen likes to hear Autumn's perspective on the Canadian side of things). I guess this visit was already planned as the Philips family was out of the country (Canada most likely) for Christmas; so this was most likely a preplanned belated Christmas visit.

I do wonder where and with whom Harry spent the last few days...

[Curryong]

A long dating period, followed by a long engagement?
By which time Meghan would be nearing forty and the possibilities of her having any children (very much wanted by Harry) would be rapidly receding into the distance. All these arguments for and against a long pre engagement period were thrashed out at great length in the appropriate thread at the time.

It's been said that no-one knows what Royal life is really like unless and until you are actually living it, and to a large degree I agree with that. Harry was also a full time Royal on his wedding day, so there could not be any gradual part time induction into the role such as Kate had.

Plus, I do not believe that it was primarily her role in fulfilling engagements that put Meghan off living in Britain. She usually looked as if she was hugely enjoying it. I saw the couple on their Australian tour and that seemed genuinely to be the case. IMO the vile and incessant criticism she received from the British tabloids from the beginning has played a large part in this.

[_Heather_]

Originally Posted by texankitcat

How is this the BRF’s fault?

I'm not sure that anyone is saying that it's their fault. Only that things change so quickly in this world that what they put in place today may be completely and totally meaningless 25-30 years from now. By the time George, Charlotte, and Louis marry it's quite possible that all new rules or customs regarding those marrying into the family will need to be worked out just simply because times have changed.

[4Pam]

Good luck to both of them. It looks like they are getting what they want. And who knows what the future will bring?



It's a pity that only Harry went to this meeting without Meghan. What does that say about her?

[DuchessMia]

Originally Posted by 4Pam

Good luck to both of them. It looks like they are getting what they want. And who knows what the future will bring?



It's a pity that only Harry went to this meeting without Meghan. What does that say about her?

It says that this is Harry’s family to deal with. He’s the royal with duty drilled into him from birth. He’s asking his grandmother’s permission to alter his position in the Firm.

[_Heather_]

Originally Posted by DuchessMia

It says that this is Harry’s family to deal with. He’s the royal with duty drilled into him from birth. He’s asking his grandmother’s permission to alter his position in the Firm.

It may be his family but it's both of their livelihoods. At least for the present. And the outcome of all this will significantly impact their son. There's not really any great excuse as to why Meghan couldn't or wouldn't be present at these negotiations and discussions that have a significant impact on every aspect of her life, her husband's life, and her son's life.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by _Heather_

As for Archie, we may have seen lots of him in pictures provided by his parents but other than the pictures of him meeting the Queen and Prince Philip and his christening pictures featuring the immediate family sans children, we haven't ever seen him with any family member. And frankly, unless it's for PR purposes, I don't believe we will. There's absolutely zero evidence that any of them, other than the immediate family we've seen in those official photos, have actually even met him. This is especially true since it's not believed they turned up at Balmoral this summer and we know they didn't show up at Sandringham at Christmas. He was born after Easter and they skipped the family Christmas lunch at the palace. I truly doubt we'll ever see pictures like we've seen of Louis with Charles/Camilla on the balcony or grabbing at Charles' face or even pictures like we got to see of Camilla with her arm around Charlotte or any of those pictures like we saw of the Cambridges with Kate knelt down looking at Lena in a stroller or the Phillips girls playing on the hill with George and Charlotte. Many of those were purely family moments and not trotted out for PR. I fully expect that we'll never see Archie unless it's a carefully controlled PR photoshoot.

There has been one polo match over the summer that both William's and Harry's family attended. Unfortunately, there was hardly any interaction between them. I seem to remember Louis trying to get some attention from Archie but Meghan was holding him close, so that was about it.

[CyrilVladisla]

The Queen issues a statement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3yuo9rkGWM

It is interesting that The Queen referred to the Sussexses by their names instead of The Duke and Duchess of Sussex.

[Betsypaige]

Originally Posted by _Heather_

It may be his family but it's both of their livelihoods. At least for the present. And the outcome of all this will significantly impact their son. There's not really any great excuse as to why Meghan couldn't or wouldn't be present at these negotiations and discussions that have a significant impact on every aspect of her life, her husband's life, and her son's life.

You’d also think that she’s close enough to the Queen and Charles to open up to them about why she feels it necessary to leave. She IS their daughter-in-law and granddaughter-in-law. Harry shouldn’t have to speak for her, and I think she owed it to them to be there. It all goes back to her tendency to flee, and also her desire to just get the heck out of Dodge.

What is like to know is what Charles’ relationship with William is like. They’re going to need each other more now..

[evolvingdoors]

Originally Posted by Curryong

A long dating period, followed by a long engagement?
By which time Meghan would be nearing forty and the possibilities of her having any children (very much wanted by Harry) would be rapidly receding into the distance. All these arguments for and against a long pre engagement period were thrashed out at great length in the appropriate thread at the time.

It's been said that no-one knows what Royal life is really like unless and until you are actually living it, and to a large degree I agree with that. Harry was also a full time Royal on his wedding day, so there could not be any gradual part time induction into the role such as Kate had.

Plus, I do not believe that it was primarily her role in fulfilling engagements that put Meghan off living in Britain. She usually looked as if she was hugely enjoying it. I saw the couple on their Australian tour and that seemed genuinely to be the case. IMO the vile and incessant criticism she received from the British tabloids from the beginning has played a large part in this.

I’ll only answe about the having kids part: this is the 21st century where women have children later and later in life. Amal and George Clooney had their twins when she was 38!
Sophie had James at around the same age, even later.

Having babies post 40 is no longer an odd pregnancy. Many women have multiple ones, without the need for an IVF.

[Erin9]

Originally Posted by Betsypaige

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...een-story.html



So, some interesting details......but still, mostly what I get from all of this is a sense of deep sadness that has pervaded and will continue to pervade this family.

Yes- that is my biggest takeaway: deep sadness and hurt. Which frankly matches “sources” statements too.

I do suspect everyone hasn’t moved out of the “anger’” phase yet, but that would not be a constructive sentiment to express.

[Sionevar]

Originally Posted by texankitcat

How is this the BRF’s fault?

I didn't mean at all to imply that it was.

More just thinking about how long it's going to be before we see another fully royal wedding, how few full royals the BRF is going to have in coming years, how old it all makes me feel!

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by 4Pam

Good luck to both of them. It looks like they are getting what they want. And who knows what the future will bring?



It's a pity that only Harry went to this meeting without Meghan. What does that say about her?

This is just my personal take on it but I think it shows that right now, no matter what is happening or needing to be resolved, both Harry and Meghan feel their first and primary priority is to their son, Archie. It is not rocket science that a routine is needed to be established for babies and Archie is only 8 months old. I believe this is the reason he wasn't uprooted and taken to the UK for what the Sussexes, at the time, figured would be a short stay.

The fact remains that we do not know if Meghan participated in the summit meeting. She very well could have done so via a secure line and teleconferencing from Vancouver.

[_Heather_]

Originally Posted by Betsypaige

What is like to know is what Charles’ relationship with William is like. They’re going to need each other more now..

By most accounts Charles' relationship with William has vastly improved over the years, particularly as William has grown older and taken on more responsibilities and seems more able to understand his father's work and duties and responsibilities. And based on pictures and videos it would appear that both William and Kate have quite lovely relationships with Charles and Camilla, particularly as time has gone on. And I agree, William/Kate and Charles/Camilla are very much going to need each other's support going forward, though it does seem as though the older couple is well-preparing the younger couple for their future lives with much help from the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Lilyflo

Interesting point made above about Princess Anne making money out of breeding horses. I think she has a farm, which is a commercial business. So if some working royals are also earning money outside of their income from the Queen, could that be the precedent referred to by H&M in their statement? Anne doesn't use her royal status to generate the private income though, which would be the sticking point for H&M I think.

I suppose H&M could generate a private income from something that didn't trade off their status eg investments, property etc. If their royal foundation was wholly for charity & they took no personal income from it, perhaps that would be acceptable.

Just another thought - the Queen Mother left money in her will. Where did that come from? Presumably there was an investment portfolio generating a private income. The Queen herself makes money from her horse stud & Sandringham is a commercial enterprise isn't it? Perhaps there are many ways H&M could generate a private income without cashing in on their titles and use them solely for charity fundraising.

Which would also suggest that no 'break' was needed to do so. Given that H&M thought their current role limited their possibilities, apparently they want more or something different than Anne or any other full-time working members of the royal family so far.