The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[tommy100]

I think the announcement they will no longer formally represent the Queen may give patronages a bit of wiggle room. A bit like with Andrew,patronages can effectively opt in or out and I don't blame them if they want some one else, you know someone actually living most the time in the country.

 

[soapstar]

I think that is primarily because the Duchy supports the work of William and Harry and is available for public scrutiny.

Yeah, that's definitely the primary reason. I just thought it was interesting because there has been such a big discussion about whether it was appropriate for Charles to fund them from the Duchy and it appears even BP/Charles are struggling to work out this issue.

We weren't talking about work...


LaRae

I misread it. I thought the discussion was about taking up new royal patronages, but I see it's about their existing ones.

 

[Mbruno]

they have been told they can't represent the queen.. that they can't use their HRH's.. Peoeple will know that Charles is the one who will have to fudn them and pay for Frogmore.. they are not going to do it.. so their financial independence is a myth. They may find that stepping away from the Royal life isn't much fun.. at least for Harry...

We have to wait for the finer details , if they are ever disclosed. Assuming Harry and Meghan keep the Duchy of Cornwall funding and 24/7 state-paid security, it is a win for them.

Given, however , that the Metropolitan Police is already reviewing Andrew’s security on the basis that he is no longer a full-time working royal, I don’t see how they could justify not looking at Harry and Meghan’s arrangements too. And it appears they will actually live mostly in Canada, where the local government may be even less inclined to pay for their security. Right now, I am inclined to believe they will lose it and will have to pay for security themselves ( or, more likely, Charles will have to pay).

 

[Florestane]

Good luck to them - hope it works out for them. I don't think it's going to be easy but I'm sure they feel more in control of what they can do.

I'm still not clear about where the money is going to come from - just their private fortunes and commercial deals or will they still get an allowance from the Duchy of Cornwall.

 

[Erin9]

Well that is what happened with Diana. They aren't Diana and I honestly think that unless they continue to court the media. They will loose interest.

For their business interests to work- the media will have to be involved imo.

 

[Lady Daly]

I am so happy for Harry and Meghan. They are still members of the Royal Family and will continue to serve the Monarchy. https://sussexroyal.com/monarchy/

No one has all the immediate answers but I think the Queen has given them a gift!

 

[Halley]

The person this is going to affect most is Harry. He has been brought up as a Royal - and a 'senior' one at that. He will lose his military position as Royal Colonel of regiments, and will not be able to be at the Cenotaph on Remembrance Day with his father and brother. Although he found Royal protocol restricting, that doesn't mean that he is used to doing all his own planning himself without the backup of the Palace. Many of his patronages may not find him as valuable when is just 'plain' Duke of Sussex (one of about 22 Dukedoms in the UK). Megan will probably gain, because she has status and connections she didn't have before. This will help with her moneymaking, which seems to be important to her, and which was something that Royals don't even think of doing. Of course they will have to change their Brand name as they probably can't use the Royal in 'Sussex Royal'. It is a pity all round that she couldn't 'stick it out' for another year or so, made some British friends and tried to find out what it was all about. All the mainstream Royal watchers and supporters had such hopes for this new member of the Royal Family, who was bringing a new angle into the family, but we should have seen the writing on the wall when they didn't accept for Archie the title he was entitled to have as the heir to the Dukedom of Sussex, i.e. Earl of Dumbartonshire. But, there it is!

 

[Pranter]

The person this is going to affect most is Harry. He has been brought up as a Royal - and a 'senior' one at that. He will lose his military position as Royal Colonel of regiments, and will not be able to be at the Cenotaph on Remembrance Day with his father and brother. Although he found Royal protocol restricting, that doesn't mean that he is used to doing all his own planning himself without the backup of the Palace. Many of his patronages may not find him as valuable when is just 'plain' Duke of Sussex (one of about 22 Dukedoms in the UK). Megan will probably gain, because she has status and connections she didn't have before. This will help with her moneymaking, which seems to be important to her, and which was something that Royals don't even think of doing. Of course they will have to change their Brand name as they probably can't use the Royal in 'Sussex Royal'. It is a pity all round that she couldn't 'stick it out' for another year or so, made some British friends and tried to find out what it was all about. All the mainstream Royal watchers and supporters had such hopes for this new member of the Royal Family, who was bringing a new angle into the family, but we should have seen the writing on the wall when they didn't accept for Archie the title he was entitled to have as the heir to the Dukedom of Sussex, i.e. Earl of Dumbartonshire. But, there it is!

Yes Archie has the title, they did accept it, he's simply not using it at this time was their wording. Unless something changes Archie will be HRH when Charles is the King.


LaRae

 

[O-H Anglophile]

I am so happy for Harry and Meghan. They are still members of the Royal Family and will continue to serve the Monarchy. https://sussexroyal.com/monarchy/

No one has all the immediate answers but I think the Queen has given them a gift!

Well, they are still members of the Mountbatten-Windsor family but not even occasional working Royals or even able to use their HRH.

And no, they will not continue to represent the Monarchy-they are out.

 

[Lori138]

I am so happy for Harry and Meghan. They are still members of the Royal Family and will continue to serve the Monarchy. https://sussexroyal.com/monarchy/

No one has all the immediate answers but I think the Queen has given them a gift!

That is not how I interpreted the statement issued by HM. She stated they would remain members of her family but will NOT be performing any duties and keep only their personal patronages. They also will not be getting any funding from the Crown. There was no mention of continuing to serve the monarchy, in fact Harry will not be allowed to wear a uniform any more.

 

[poppy7]

For their business interests to work- the media will have to be involved imo.

IF the media are interested. And that in the long term is a big if.

 

[Betsypaige]

Below is a link to an updated version of the article I posted yesterday...

Ok, so Harry and William’s relationship with their father has had ups and downs - that’s life in any family. What I don’t understand it’s why Harry didn’t speak to Charles about feeling “pushed out”. It’s not like Charles doesn’t praise him publicly, saying how proud he is of him. What does Harry want? He doesn’t want to be “pushed out”, but he also doesn’t want to be a working Royal. What then? Then he’s pissed at his father because he’s jealous that William and Kate got “their own court” and he and Meghan did not? William is the future king, there’s a big difference. I believe this, yes I do; not everything in the newspapers is wrong. I feel like Harry is running away to North America as a way to cope with his feelings of insecurity and kind of jealousy (I say kind of because he hates the media). As to the rift with his brother, it seems sibling rivalry runs deeper than I thought.

Charles’s aides asked William to praise his father’s role in the boys’ upbringing when the brothers appeared in documentaries to mark the 20th anniversary of their mother’s death. He refused. Only Harry paid a brief tribute. Then when it came to marking Charles’s 70th birthday in November 2018, it was Harry rather than William who gave a heartfelt speech to mark the milestone at a special garden party in the summer, thanking him on behalf of the nation for his ‘incredible work’. Then in a documentary to mark the occasion, William lamented the fact that his children did not see more of their grandfather – seemingly concerned that history may repeat itself when it came to Charles’s absenteeism during his own childhood. Amid reports Kate’s parents Michael and Carole Middleton saw far more of Prince George, Princess Charlotte and Prince Louis, Charles was said to have been upset when he found out William had jokingly started referring to his father-in-law as ‘Dad’. And then there was an unfortunate incident when a never-seen-before picture of Charles holding George as a baby accidentally made an appearance in a video clip released by Clarence House to mark Earth Hour in 2015. Notoriously privacy-obsessed William hit the roof.

So for a long time, Harry was always the closer of the two sons. But the future Prince of Wales, William is increasingly being brought into his father’s decision making. He has been spending a lot more time learning about the Duchy of Cornwall (which currently funds the Cambridges and the Sussexes as well as Charles and Camilla) and was heavily involved in the decision for the Duke of York to step back from public duties over the Jeffrey Epstein scandal last November. It seems the closer William has become to Charles, the more Harry has felt pushed out.

Harry’s his own relationship with his father suffered a severe blow when, in agreement with the Queen, Charles refused to let the Sussexes set up their own ‘court’ at Windsor after they split their household from the Cambridges’ at Kensington Palace last spring. If William and Kate had their own fiefdom, why couldn’t he and Meghan? Ironically, by trying to keep them in the fold, Charles effectively gave the couple carte blanche to start operating in a silo.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spectator.co.uk/2020/01/warring-windsors-the-real-royal-conflict-is-between-charles-and-his-sons/amp/

 

[tommy100]

That is not how I interpreted the statement issued by HM. She stated they would remain members of her family but will NOT be performing any duties and keep only their personal patronages. They also will not be getting any funding from the Crown. There was no mention of continuing to serve the monarchy, in fact Harry will not be allowed to wear a uniform any more.

And there is a statement at the front of the Sussex's website saying it will be updated in time in light of today's announcement. The first version is just the vision they had for their future

Update: 18th of January 2020

In line with the statement by Her Majesty The Queen, information on the roles and work of The Duke and Duchess of Sussex will be updated on this website in due course. We appreciate your patience and invite you to explore the site to see the current works of Their Royal Highnesses.

 

[Mbruno]

Yes Archie has the title, they did accept it, he's simply not using it at this time was their wording. Unless something changes Archie will be HRH when Charles is the King.


LaRae

I’d be greatly surprised if Archie ever became an HRH now that his parents aren’t using the style either. Although he will be the King’s grandson in male line, there is precedent for him to be styled only as the son of a peer ( see James and Louise) if that is Charles’ will and it will most likely be now that Archie will be raised outside the Royal Family and probably in North America. I don’t see him and his mother coming to the UK very often.

 

[Curbside]

Even if they are happy, no one else is. Even if the Crown “won”, the personal pain involved is incredibly sad. Harry and Meghan are thrilled to be getting away from everyone ...father, brother, cousins, aunts, uncles...I deliberately left out his grandmother.

There aren't many family businesses where individuals are expected to take on a job, even before they are even born.

 

[Lady Marlboro]

Just to throw another topic in here. It is just my opinion, but I think the reason that Meghan chose to return to Canada is that custody laws are much different here. For instance, if Harry and Meghan separate in the UK, Harry is likely to retain custody of his son, whereas in Canada, Meghan would likely get custody.

Yes, there is joint custody but even in the case of Charles and Diana, her lawyer had to fight for her to have joint custody and she could not live in another country with her sons.

I was going to reply to this earlier before the "breaking news" hit. I had been thinking something similar but not with Canada. I figured since they weren't Canadian citizens, the court would probably dismiss any filing and refer them to the British courts. My concern was with the United States. The border is right there and it would be easy for her to take Archie to visit her mom and then file in the US as both would be US citizens. This is where my biggest concern comes in - she files for sole custody of Archie on the basis of Harry being emotionally unstable from the death of his mother and thus not fit to have even joint custody of his son. In a touch of extreme irony the lawyers would cite all the media reports of how emotionally fragile he is during this period. I am afraid she might win and that would absolutely destroy him.

 

[Kataryn]

[Bolding mine]
I think this is the crux of it. I think she wanted to be able to direct her own activities, to be the author of her role within the RF. She didn't want everything to be subject o BP's approval. She wanted to highlight her causes on her terms, now that she had this huge platform. She found that her role and her causes were secondary. She didn't know or didn't appreciate that the RF as an institution is bigger than that, and she would have to take her place within it.

There's a big generational divide on this. The younger generation in my family see it as Meghan apparently sees it. To them, Meghan should have been able to do whatever she wanted as DoS, and since she couldn't they see no reason for her to stay.

I'm still of the opinion that it was the way the media reacted to Meghan doing her things. She didn't get the recognition (apart from the book project and only after the book became a bestseller) but the other positive things were not properly brought forward by the media while all things that went a little bit wrong became a "desaster" in the tabloids. Of course she realised that! And how the media helped her family to have a get-go at her. So what the queen calls "Intense scrutiny" could make her getting doubts if the official way as part of the RF including the rota-system etc. was the right one for her.



But what I personally like now - the queen made clear that while she at least likes Meghan, she will not allow for them to use their Royal styles to make money out of it. The Royals learned from Sarah! Such tacky things like Dietdrinks and "Royal" furniture are a no-no. At least they are as long as Meghan is married to Harry.



I believe (just my gut feeling) that Harry and Meghan, while wishing for a different outcome (see their webpage), pointed out the hartrassment of Maghan and little Archie to the queen and Charles. Rightfully so!
I read here a message from a WoC about her experiences and how that would have influenced Meghan as well and I was so so sad for both of them. And as a German interested in history I know how aggressive people can be to others and how even those considered to be "decent" can be made murderous by propaganda against people they consider to be, hm, let's say "aliens". So I won't be able to gloss over the media and what they did to Harry, Meghan and Archie.
OTOH, there is Meghan's past and the influx of what might be her dreams on their webpage (and on their goals for the negotiations). Let's just say as I don't want to claim things I cannot check, probably it was good that Harry went negociation with the family and she took care of Archie meanwhile. For I believe they were afraid for their little boy and that's why mom & babe stay in Canada.



Now that they reached a compromise which should be okay for the "taxpayer", though probably not for the "tabloids", we'll see where they go.

But I'm sure the retaking of the military positions (which could have asked for security and so had to go) hurt Harry and maybe we see him back - with or without Meghan. We don't know her for real and so does HM and the PoW. But if she can stand the next year with Harry (she can always go the Sarah-way without him), maybe she can stand that they come back. I would wish it for the BRF!!!

 

[Lumutqueen]

I am so happy for Harry and Meghan. They are still members of the Royal Family and will continue to serve the Monarchy. https://sussexroyal.com/monarchy/



No one has all the immediate answers but I think the Queen has given them a gift!

They are members of the Mountbatten-Windsor household, their family is part of the British monarchy but it’s quite clear from the statement they are not members of the “royal family”, nor will they serve the monarchy past Spring 2020.

I wish Buckingham Palace would give us clear guidance on Harry and Meghan’s titles and styles so we know how to call them. For starters, I don’t know yet if Harry is still using the titular dignity of Prince prefixed to his name ( as he is legally entitled the) or if he has also voluntarily relinquished that title along with the HRH style.

We’ve had it. They will be Henry, Duke of Sussex and Meghan, Duchess of Sussex. They will no longer use their style HRH and Prince. They go hand in hand I guess.

The only thing we don’t know is security, and their residential status in their country of choice.

 

[wyevale]

How bad is Harry going to look when he rolls up, alone and wearing 'civvies', to his father's coronation ?

 

[Betsypaige]

For sure- no one else is happy. Tired, stressed, disappointed, hurt, etc. Still- I think happy would be an over- statement for Harry and Meghan. This wasn’t their vision either. They got some- but hardly all- of what they wanted. And how well this will work is debatable- especially in the long term.

I’m not sure they’re “thrilled” to get away from everyone but the Queen. Maybe, but the only one in the family there’s known to be friction with is William. Though I’m sure their relationship with Charles has taken a big hit with this mess. Possibly the rest of the family. It’s hard to imagine ANYONE in the family is happy about the public mess they’ve made. Their friends likely have their own POV too- especially ones they share with William.

I probably exaggerated - I admit I’m a little bitter at them for this whole thing. As to relationships, I just posted an updated link to the Spectator article on the Wales’ - it’s rather revealing. Of course Harry doesn’t mind taking money from his dad..l

 

[Denville]

I am so happy for Harry and Meghan. They are still members of the Royal Family and will continue to serve the Monarchy. https://sussexroyal.com/monarchy/

No one has all the immediate answers but I think the Queen has given them a gift!

? they wont be representing the queen. they will be probably lviign abroad most of the time. They will get money but that was always on the cards.. how can they serve the monarchy when they have effectively been dropped?

 

[Mirabel]

Peter Hunt, ex-BBCer, thinks M and H win and the Monarchy “lost - big time”. I’m like, huh? Ok, they do have to figure out who else will become working royals, but the institution is and will be just fine.

I think M & H did win much of what they desired:

a. Keep Titles (I doubt anyone will care that much about HRH)

b. Still Funded by Charles

c. Retain Frogmore cottage

d. Retain some patronages (The ones they want)

e. Release from Royal duties

f. Security most likely to be paid by the public

 

[Claire]

I think there is still a lot to be finalized - which is why they have given themselves till Spring 2020.
From what I understand they will only be doing private patronages - so the National Theatre has already been removed. So they will not be able to represent the Queen and the monarchy anywhere. Which must be a blow for them as they wanted to still concentrate on the Commonwealth.
Harry loosing all Honorary Military Positions is also sad. Alastair Bruce of Sky has said that they will no longer take part in any ceremonial part of the royal family. I am presuming that included Trooping. Garter and Centroph. Unsure if Ascot is considered ceremonial.


https://news.sky.com/story/harry-an...ueen-shes-brought-down-the-iron-fist-11912143


So at the funerals of his grandparents, his fathers and brother's coronation - will he be sitting with the family or in the back somewhere with Prince Andrew and Sarah, Duchess of York?

 

[poppy7]

Below is a link to an updated version of the article I posted yesterday...

Ok, so Harry and William’s relationship with their father has had ups and downs - that’s life in any family. What I don’t understand it’s why Harry didn’t speak to Charles about feeling “pushed out”. It’s not like Charles doesn’t praise him publicly, saying how proud he is of him. What does Harry want? He doesn’t want to be “pushed out”, but he also doesn’t want to be a working Royal. What then? Then he’s pissed at his father because he’s jealous that William and Kate got “their own court” and he and Meghan did not? William is the future king, there’s a big difference. I believe this, yes I do; not everything in the newspapers is wrong. I feel like Harry is running away to North America as a way to cope with his feelings of insecurity and kind of jealousy (I say kind of because he hates the media). As to the rift with his brother, it seems sibling rivalry runs deeper than I thought.





https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sp...conflict-is-between-charles-and-his-sons/amp/

I think it's bigger than that. I think he must be a rather vain person like his great great uncle and his uncle to be raised with such a sense of duty and apparently be left nit picking. He was doing a lot of good to many people with his work.

On a family front this is a tradegy. The abdication changed the lives and destinies of the York family and hw leaving too will affect the lives of other members of the royal family. He was close to Eugenie and I have noticed she hasn't touched her personal instagram since Christmas. Probably to avoid questions.

And then the quotes that he is doing this for Charlotte and Louis. The nerve. I doubt either will hold their uncle in high esteem given that they will see the personal affect of this on their father. I can only imagine that William will continue to grow towards his Phillips cousins in the family. He never was that friendly with the York's. But you know they are older now too. Family is so important to them given the lack of outsiders you can trust.

 

[Lumutqueen]

How bad is Harry going to look when he rolls up, alone and wearing 'civvies', to his father's coronation ?

He won’t. He still holds military rank. It is only his honorary appointments that are being removed.

 

[Erin9]

IF the media are interested. And that in the long term is a big if.

Agreed. It’s the long- term media interest that I question. And they need it.

They’re good looking, charismatic, have name recognition, Harry is Diana’s son- but I can say with absolute certainly: Americans have short attention spans.

And whatever they do- it was made clear they wouldn’t embarrass the Queen (further). Not those exact words, but that was the gist.

 

[Betsypaige]

How bad is Harry going to look when he rolls up, alone and wearing 'civvies', to his father's coronation ?

If he shows up, lol....

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Has there been any clarification of the vague sentence about ceasing use of the HRH titles (in spring)?

1. May the couple continue to use their titles of Prince and Princess?

2. May other parties continue to use the HRH titles on their behalf? For instance, suppose a company books them for a paid speaking engagement. May that company advertise that event as "Meet TRH Prince Harry and Princess Meghan", provided that the Sussexes do not call themselves HRH in their speeches?

 

[Kataryn]

But without the HRH’s aren’t they lower ranking to Bea and Eug who are HRH Princesses?

Their rank is determined by what they are, not by what they are known as. Bea and Eugenie will use their style when they write a letter or are introduced, Harry and Meghan will not. But they all "have" the HRH and Harry has the higher rank because he is the future king's son while the girls are just the future king's nieces.

 

[evolvingdoors]

They will no longer use their HRH titles.

The official statement from HM The Queen.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1218601424986234881

But no news regarding any money to be provided to them via the Duchy of Cornwall?. which was essentially their main salary.