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  #2241  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:21 PM
Courtier
 
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Piers Morgan is the man who carried on as if vegan sausage rolls were a threat to Western culture. I don't know why the rest of the media even report what he says!


It would be very unusual for anyone to be stripped of a royal title - it's only really been done, except in cases of divorce, with distant relatives who fought for Germany during the First World War.
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  #2242  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:22 PM
Commoner
 
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Elated for the Sussexes! Freedom!
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  #2243  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:27 PM
ACO ACO is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
It is clear that Meghan doesn’t want to live or be in the UK. In that case, the part-time project won’t work.The only question in my mind is if she ever considered making a serious commitment to the UK or if she already got married with an intention to bail out as soon as possible.

Just to draw a parallel, Chris O’Neill didn’t want to commit to Sweden or live there permanently either, but he was candid about it. When he married Princess Madeleine, he turned down a title, membership of the Swedish RF and Swedish citizenship. And then he moved with his family overseas. Of course, it is easier for him as he is a man and husbands of princesses are not expected to be working royals as wives of princes normally are, but, still, if Meghan had doubts about adjusting to Harry’s life, they could have come to an agreement to live like the O’Neills right from the beginning of their marriage and never be working royals to begin with, or she could have considered not having got married at all.
She clearly had every intention. Those initial months says a lot. Royal Foundation. The Fab Four. All that stuff. They did the work. It was fine... until it clearly wasn't.

I truly think that the non stop nastiness all throughout her pregnancy really tainted things for her. It made Harry extra protective and Meghan seemed to sour on things. We have no idea what happened behind closed doors but clearly they were struggling.

So now things will be different. It is a shame but sometimes you have to do what is best for you. I almost wonder if Meghan might be again and they just wanted to avoid going through all that and rather have peace.

Who knows. I just hope everyone can finally move on now that a plan is somewhat in place. It is a transition for the whole family. They now down three senior working royals when they never thought that would be the case.
  #2244  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evolvingdoors View Post
Honestly, this statement (give it take a few lines) is what would have been released eventually by BP had they listened to Charles and, apperaty their aides, and just waited until everything was finalized and ready to be properly shared.
It does not take a genius to realize that.

If they would have waited, they would have been at the same situation they are now: on a break, slowly deconstructing their U.K. life.
Minus the tantrum drama, Meghan fleeing too afraid to face “the family she never had”- that being said it allowed many people to see her true colors so..

What Harry wanted and sadly got was his meeting with the queen, essentially bypassing his father and her explicit request to first clear the plan with him..
Thus essentially disrespecting them both!
I am really surprised at such a personal statement from the Queen, emphasizing me and family so much.

She seems to have taken control of this situation now. Harry wanted to deal with her directly in the first place but she directed him to Charles as she clearly has been handing a lot over the Charles over the past few years. IMO Charles is the one who misread Harry's state of mind and could have handled this much better.
  #2245  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:33 PM
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Ironically Harry and Meghan think that they are "senior" royals, the queen describes their position as "full-time working" royals.
Work, not high position
  #2246  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:33 PM
Royal Highness
 
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I can’t believe this interviewer ... this is on Charles? That he failed as a parent and PoW because all he did was sit by and “wring his hands”? Victoria, you were too nice- I’m sorry to say I had to shut off the interview after that (you were the best part, by far). Ugh. Charles had the sad duty to raise his boys after Diana died, and I’d say he did a fine job. From what I’ve read, William and Harry haven’t always listened to their dad, they aren’t always respectful to him. Who’s to say that Harry ever really opened up to his father? That was just so disappointing.

*I don’t blame Victoria Arbiter at all

https://twitter.com/questcnn/status/...102417411?s=21
  #2247  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:34 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
Piers Morgan is the man who carried on as if vegan sausage rolls were a threat to Western culture. I don't know why the rest of the media even report what he says!


It would be very unusual for anyone to be stripped of a royal title - it's only really been done, except in cases of divorce, with distant relatives who fought for Germany during the First World War.
True and, again, in that case, it was done by an act of Parliament, which is a far more complicated process.
  #2248  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:35 PM
texankitcat's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
She clearly had every intention. Those initial months says a lot. Royal Foundation. The Fab Four. All that stuff. They did the work. It was fine... until it clearly wasn't.

I truly think that the non stop nastiness all throughout her pregnancy really tainted things for her. It made Harry extra protective and Meghan seemed to sour on things. We have no idea what happened behind closed doors but clearly they were struggling.

So now things will be different. It is a shame but sometimes you have to do what is best for you. I almost wonder if Meghan might be again and they just wanted to avoid going through all that and rather have peace.

Who knows. I just hope everyone can finally move on now that a plan is somewhat in place. It is a transition for the whole family. They now down three senior working royals when they never thought that would be the case.
I don’t understand what “nastiness” was directed towards Meghan when she was pregnant. There were comments in the media about the frequency of holding her baby bump. Other than that I don’t recall any nastiness.
  #2249  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jannedde View Post
I am really surprised at such a personal statement from the Queen, emphasizing me and family so much.

She seems to have taken control of this situation now. Harry wanted to deal with her directly in the first place but she directed him to Charles as she clearly has been handing a lot over the Charles over the past few years. IMO Charles is the one who misread Harry's state of mind and could have handled this much better.
How do you know this? Charles is the one who’s been speaking to Harry for months. He can only do so much if Harry isn’t going to open up. He’s not a mind reader - and Harry is an adult; Charles can’t watch over him at every moment.
  #2250  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
They now down three senior working royals
Yes, and what a feeling to be betrayed by your grandson, son and brother.. they will have to be 'better people than l', not to be overwhelmed with bitterness and gnawing resentment, as they struggle to fly the flag, he has so signally deserted.
  #2251  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:48 PM
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After reading the statement from HM, The Queen, I've jumped forward in the thread to post my gut reactions from it before I go through all the pages and pages that have been posted afterwards. I will be reading them and responding so if it seems my take on the statement was formed without reading the entire thread, that is why.

The statement issued by the Queen to me was very, very human. Not solely as a grandmother or solely as the monarch. Its easy for us to see these people in a specific way because the Family is crucial to the "Firm" and the "Firm" is crucial to the Family. Its very a very tightly woven carpet the encompasses so much and so many different angles.

Like any father that owns a company, adding that "& Sons" is sometimes a huge dream and goal as the business grows through a lot of elbow grease and sacrifices and long hours. Having one of those sons reaching adulthood and perhaps being not that enthused with just stepping into the plan, he wants to "find himself". It happens worldwide in a lot of instances.

The Queen understands this. She's disappointed that the full time working part for Harry and Meghan, through all that has happened so far, has turned out to be something that has caused stress and unhappiness for the couple. She also believes that the "hitting the ground running" as full time working senior members of the "Firm", adapting to a new marriage and becoming parents for the first time were too much. The Queen, herself, had a period of adjustment after marriage spending time with Philip in Malta. William and Catherine were part time and resided in Wales. Charles and Diana went full blast into full time Prince and Princess of Wales mode and we know how that turned out. Of course she's disappointed that the Sussexes do not want to be full time senior working royals but she fully understands the reasons why and perhaps regrets the family's expectations that the Sussexes could and would take on everything from the get go and be a perfect fit.

This is amending and adapting and working *with* Harry and Meghan not to "give them what they want" but perhaps giving them what they *need* at this time. Breathing space. Time to step back, look at things calmly and clearly and focus on where they want to go in the future. I actually think its a huge step forward at this time with a lot of love, compassion, understanding and hope. Especially hope. No doors are being slammed. No total break has been made or basically *anything* really changed other than the fact that they're being given that breathing space to sort things out within their own family and within their extended family and its "Firm".

So my take on the Queen's statement is that in a language that amplifies that they are first and foremost a family, Harry and Meghan's unhappiness with the way things were has been duly noted and taken into account and solutions are being discussed and found so that everyone can be at peace.

Its not about the titles and their royal status and I'd really not be surprised if the Sussex foundation's launch is delayed for the time being. Those things basically are secondary in my eyes to the main issue which is actually Harry and Meghan themselves. So, in a way and referring to my allegory I painted, the "& Sons" pulling Harry and Meghan into a full time partnership with the "Firm" is on hold. At this time. Perhaps even, there's regret that the full time expectations didn't work out and the chaos of the last few days is the result. The door is still open though.

Just my thoughts. As always.
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  #2252  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:53 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Yes, and what a feeling to be betrayed by your grandson, son and brother.. they will have to be 'better people than l', not to be overwhelmed with bitterness and gnawing resentment, as they struggle to fly the flag, he has so signally deserted.
And depending on how the Sussexes conduct themselves the bitterness may grow in the coming months or years.
  #2253  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:55 PM
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Osipi, that was beautifully stated ....I hope that Harry has seen how much everyone loves and values him, and that he perhaps might reconsider his stance down the line. His father and brother will need him
  #2254  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:58 PM
texankitcat's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jannedde View Post
I am really surprised at such a personal statement from the Queen, emphasizing me and family so much.

She seems to have taken control of this situation now. Harry wanted to deal with her directly in the first place but she directed him to Charles as she clearly has been handing a lot over the Charles over the past few years. IMO Charles is the one who misread Harry's state of mind and could have handled this much better.
She directed the Sussex’s, The Prince of Wales and William to figure out a plan and present to her for final approval, which is appropriate as they are Harry’s father and brother as well as the future Monarch and his heir who will be most affected by Harry’s decision. If Harry was not cooperative with the process and impatient to push it through which is apparently what happened, then that is all on him. Not the Queen, the POW or William. It is a complex issue which Harry doesn’t appear to appreciate or have the patience to work through which is what brought it to this point.

At this point I think the Queen and her family are incredibly sad and disappointed, but resolved that is has to be done. What ever comes of today’s summit, the final decisions will be jointly made by all involved.
  #2255  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
the bitterness may grow in the coming months or years.
'Absence makes the Heart grow COLDER'...
  #2256  
Old 01-13-2020, 07:01 PM
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This report is in contrast to the previously reported willingness by Mr. Trudeau to cover the costs of the Sussexes security.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/worl...-a4333461.html
  #2257  
Old 01-13-2020, 07:22 PM
Osipi's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyGlendower View Post
The statement sounds to me like no public money is forthcoming after a transition period?

the Sussexes----but not the Duke and Duchess, Harry and Meghan instead
making it personal? signalling a change in HRH status? both?

I don't know what to think but my gut feeling is that they did not get what they wanted.
They don't receive any "public" money now or have they ever. Even their expenses paid for by Charles through his Duchy of Cornwall private income is divided and categorized and itemized between "official" and "personal".
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  #2258  
Old 01-13-2020, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
True, she and Harry accepted a title, a role etc.. and gave the impression they were longing to beaver away at saving the world. But it didn't last very long..
I don't know if she intended to stay, or if she cynically accepted Harry to get a title and notice in the US...Im inclined to think she did intend to stay but found that Being Royal and living in britian was not what she expected..
I think she was fully committed in the beginning but didn't have any real understanding of what it would be like. Though both are english speaking, there are enormous cultural differences between the USA and the UK. Harry being in the royal family and not knowing any other way of life probably did not recognise that enough to advise her. English upper classes are very reserved and don't openly display their feelings.
  #2259  
Old 01-13-2020, 07:27 PM
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HMQ came to the Throne when she was just 25 [younger than Harry], she too had a foreign spouse, from a 'broken home' [at a time when Britain was considerably more unfriendly to foreigners than it is today]. He faced massive hostility [albeit without the rampant press], but from an 'establishment' and Court [who he lived amongst] that resented and resisted every 'modernising' move he made.
Did he 'flounce out', resent his in-laws and adopted family, encourage his wife to 'throw in the towel' for 'a better life' ?

NO, he [currently in the closing years [possibly months] of his existence, devoted himself to his adopted country, serving it selflessly ALL his long life.

No wonder the Sussexes DARE not look him in the face.
  #2260  
Old 01-13-2020, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Most people I know who went through graduate school in Canada ( including people from “ problematic countries” like Iran) got permanent residency and later citizenship without any major difficulty. True, they had PhDs in technical fields , but many people nowadays have degrees like that too and, in the US, mAny times they are turned down. I also know people who went through graduate school in the US, couldn’t stay there and are now settled in Canada or the UK.

So my anecdotal evidence is that it is easier to emigrate to the latter aforementioned countries.
As, I've stated before, our government policy that has changed in recent years. That isn't true any longer.

My son-in-law has a friend who immigrated to Canada a number of years before he did from the same original country, came to Canada to study as a grad student (as my son-in-law also did) and and got permanent residency that way. The immigration policies were changed so that avenue no longer existed for my son-in-law (my daughter thoroughly researched it and spoke to her former employer who was an immigration lawyer). About the only avenue now open is spousal sponsorship or being an approved refugee. Apparently they are going to be closing the family reunification immigration program for grandparents and parents shortly (the waiting lists for that are very long like the business class was when they closed it).

Although Canada may be more open than the US (we certainly accept more refugees), the people you know who immigrated that way are fortunate when they came because most of them would not be able to it now.
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