The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[O-H Anglophile]

Originally Posted by BaiSoSo

...but they couldn't/wouldn't say anything about their (great) grandson, nephew being portrayed as a monkey.

They didn't need to--the person who did that was fired in short order. That sent the message that that was not okay.

[LadyGlendower]

The statement sounds to me like no public money is forthcoming after a transition period?

the Sussexes----but not the Duke and Duchess, Harry and Meghan instead
making it personal? signalling a change in HRH status? both?

I don't know what to think but my gut feeling is that they did not get what they wanted.

[evolvingdoors]

Originally Posted by Alison H

Moving abroad is a complicated thing, whoever you are. It can't all be sorted in one afternoon, by people who are not legal and financial experts.


The "my family" rather than "the Royal Family" was very telling, and the comment about wishing they'd stayed as full time working royals was as well.


There is widespread sympathy for the Queen and Prince Philip. I don't know how much of what the papers say to believe, but they're reporting that Prince Philip is bedridden for much of the time now. I don't think he was physically up to dealing with this. All the more reason why Harry should have visited him over Christmas.

True!

As someone who immigrated herself, twice, the second time returning to my birth country, it is a rollercoaster of emotions as you adjust to a new culture and way of doing things,or readjusting back to old ways, even when you have friends and/or family already established it can be rouge.
Immigration can make or break a marriage. So far Harry and Meghan have spend two years together with her as the immigrant and as we have seen cracks have began to show, and his is with them having a strong familial, friendships and financial support!

Which makes me worry for Harry, essentially all alone, in a foreign country inside a marriage that is, by all evidence, have been proving to cause him major emotional and psychological regression.


Honestly, how does anyone in their right mind think this will end well?!!

I repeat: I don’t think I have ever been so worried for another person well being, a person that is not my immediate relation or friend.

[PrincessRoyalist]

Originally Posted by BaiSoSo

Harry has spoken kindly of Catherine over the years, looked after her and was even with her when she met the Queen for the first time....William was off to a wedding or somewhere else.

It is easy for people who are sitting on the couch not getting abused to say the abused person is overly emotional, petty, childish and unstable because you aren't the one feeling the pain. It is never emotional, petty, childish or unstable to stand up for yourself if you are getting bullied in private or in the media. And no one should have to just get use to it.

The vitriol spewed at Meghan which has been occurring for well over a year was horrible and had racial components to it....something Catherine never had to deal with. But again the Palace (CH, KP or BP) spoke up about simple things such as botox, hair extensions but they couldn't/wouldn't say anything about their (great) grandson, nephew being portrayed as a monkey.

Meanwhile, Meghan was out there doing everything they asked of her 3 tours... 2 while pregnant and 1 with an infant. Helping out UK/Commonwealth people and businesses with her projects. They lived (live) in the smallest of all the royal homes, had the lowest renovation cost and yet the media and those that dislike them always complained about how much they were spending. They complained about the cost of clothes that Meghan owned before she became a royal. The media tried to sabotage her projects (Hubb & Vogue projects) condemned her for eating avocado (when Catherine did something similar is was to cure morning sickness. They called Meghan vulgar for wearing a one-shoulder dress... and not less than a month later Catherine did the same and was praised for it. Catherine never had to put up with being shamed fairly often on a morning show because she didn't want to have drinks with the host.

The list goes on and on and these are just the things we as fans/the public know about. Even now she is getting blamed for the Sussexes leaving and some even saying she manipulated Harry even though he has stated a few times since 2007 how he wanted to leave the family business but stayed because of his grandmother. Well, he has a child of his own (and a wife) that he needs to put first and didn't want to raise his family in that mess and who could blame him it was horrible.

Half of what you’re referring to is unsubstantiated rumors or made up stories. Of course there is a racial component to the coverage of Meghan. Kate is British and white and there are certain experiences unique to her. However, if we’re going to talk about someone not just having to take abuse then say the same things for every other woman who has married into the royal family. Talk about how Fergie shouldn’t have been called ‘Duchess of Pork’ or Kate shouldn’t have been accused of anorexia or had naked pics taken of her or been called ‘Waity Katie’ or a social climbers or had her trash dug thru or had papa call her horrible names to her face when she dated William or surround her car so she couldn’t leave her home or have her phone hacked. Talk about how Diana shouldn’t have been spit on or followed or have to died because the press chased her. Talk about how Camilla shouldn’t have faced all the vitriol directed at her for over a decade or been unable to marry Charles for years after Diana died or been made fun of for her appearance and compared unfavorably to Diana.

Then there’s Harry’s own exs who Chelsy was treated abominably by British press and called ‘Miss Piggy’ and Cressida was made fun of continuously for her style of dress and followed as well. Kate and Camilla and Sophie and Chelsy dealt with all of that for years on end before even becoming royals. After, they faced the same vitriol with a little better protection now but Kate has only had mostly positive press in the last 2 years and Camilla only a recently as well. Stop making Meghan this perfect figure. She not. She’s made her mistakes and bad decisions just the same as everyone else but the family supported her in ways that were different from other women before her. She was also older when she married in and was supposed to have experience and be this strong woman unlike the others.

Also, please don’t assume you know what goes on in anyone’s life. People can come to different conclusions than you. I think this forum allows for that as well. I have sympathy for Meghan while also not being happy with the way she’s handled things. I will say that I think Harry and Meghan are in the midst of some kind of breakdown and they may need to get some help to deal with everything especially considering Meghan is post-baby and may be suffering some of the residual effects from that.

[carlota]

A rather bland statement today that says nothing new - just a cordial message to try and calm the press and the public opinion down with statements such as “fully support”, “would have liked them to remain full time royals”, “constructive”, etc. They just had to get out there something positive as the press and public opinion was creating all kinds of stories following what was a very unprecedented, disloyal move. Seems they moved past “disappointed” and “hurt”.

Also strange to see a statement by the queen addressing H&M by their first names or using the terminology “the Sussexes”....

I wonder what this all means. On one hand it seems that they are in cordial terms and that the rage of the surprise has settled. On the other it seems from the queens message that they got two things that wanted: they will reduce their work to at least part time and they will leave partially in Canada. The other part of the deal remains to be seen but my guess is that we will are compromise on either their titles and/or their funding. They couldn’t have gotten away with everything they wanted so I’m wondering what was left on the table. I think their titles are more important to them than the money and I’m expecting the final decision to be among those lines.

[Sionevar]

Originally Posted by PrincessRoyalist

What does interest me is whether Princess Eugene and Beatrice will be asked to step up to part-time royals. I think William especially will need their support during his reign but also Charles may have to call on them as his siblings age. The Wessexes and Anne will not be enough. What’s the public opinion on that in the UK?

As long as they're willing to put in the work, I don't see why Eugenie and Beatrice should not be allowed to step up. Prince Andrew's Epstein troubles are not their fault, and IMHO, they should not suffer for his mistakes. But the Duchess of York would have to accept that she could not get involved.

[carlota]

Originally Posted by moby

I honestly think that if Meghan just took more time to understand the media, the social environment, etc., she could have done so much more with her issues with the media. I wonder if she ever thought to take a step back, objectively assessed the situation, and thought of shining a spotlight on the issues she encountered—racism, responsible journalism, cyberbullying, heck even social integration— and made them her advocacies. Kind of like how the brothers made their mental health advocacy personal and related it to their own experiences. Those are still very progressive issues and she still would have rocked the boat, if that’s what she wanted. Again, I can’t imagine what it’s like to be in her shoes but if she, a Duchess and extremely privileged person, already genuinely felt that way, how much more worse for the thousands of immigrants, young people throughout the UK ones without actual support?

I think these would have been more constructive approaches.

Absolutely. That’s what royalty is about. Not about attending Wimbledon, editing vogue, attending premieres, baby showers paid by your wealthy friends and touring the world in official visits. But Meghan just didn’t understand this, it would seem.

[Gawin]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

The UK Home Secretary, who is of Ugandan-Indian (?) descent BTW, categorically denied today accusations of media racism against the Duchess of Sussex. And Piers Morgan accused Meghan of libel against Britain for her insinuations of institutional racism.

Priti Patel I am willing to believe but Piers Morgan???!!!! May as well quote Donald Duck!!!

Having said that...I think racism did play a part, at least for some reporters & the public, but I also believe the situation was much more nuanced than that. For example, I suspect some reporters & members of the public (and this forum) dislike Meghan's progressive "liberal" views.

When comparing the treatment of Meghan and Catherine you also need to keep in mind their own behavior. When Catherine entered the BRF she kept her head down and her mouth shut, to the point where she has been criticized as too bland. But I think she realized she had to do that as the new kid on the block. The new kid always gets the most scrutiny whether its at school, in the neighborhood, or at work. They're being watched to see how well they fit in, whether they follow or break the rules, what makes them tick, etc.

By doing this & biding her time I think Catherine avoided some of the scrutiny. But IMO Meghan jumped right in. She immediately took on causes that were important to her (understandable since she's very committed to helping others) and edited a magazine where she championed progressive women (yes, other members of the BRF have edited magazines but NOT right away). No one would ever call Meghan bland. But IMO that drew even more scrutiny her way. Once you voice your opinions you open yourself to criticism. After all you can't criticize someone's opinions if you don't know what they are.

For some Meghan may also have come across as too eager, the exact opposite of the understated British approach, and another reminder that she was (shudder!) an American. Let's face it, the spotlight already shone more brightly on Meghan than Catherine because Meghan wasn't simply the new kid (strike one), she was also different: biracial, American, actress, divorced, a self-proclaimed feminist (strike two, three, four, five, and six). The person who's different gets scrutinized more closely too.

Was it fair? No. And I'm happy to see the toxic tabloids are getting the comeuppance they deserve from the American press.

But unfortunately it is the way life works. I can't help but wonder how different things might be today if Meghan had slowly eased into her new role, watched, and waited, with a focus on the UK: cut ribbons, visit schools, meet and greet the people and let them see for themselves what a nice person you really are despite the nasty headlines, learn the ropes, etc.

I'm only speculating. Meghan and Harry both have a lot to offer & it's sad that it's come to this.

[Lumutqueen]

This is a genuine question, and not asked lightly, can anyone point me or give me any articles, videos or statements from Henry supporting his sister-in-law during the “Waity Katie” an such years...

I’m not asking to start a fight, I’m asking for genuine information purposes. Because this is one of the main points of this sibling relationship breakdown.

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by _Heather_

Agreed. As an institution the monarchy has weathered far worse storms than this and the Whims of the Whiny won't bring down the whole institution. Yes, there's absolutely personal hurt between members of the institution and yes, there might be a new path for a couple of people who are, in the grand scheme of things, rather unimportant but as for the whole 1000 year old institution? No, these two want-to-be influencers won't be enough to shake that foundation.

The Abdication Crisis of 1936 was worse than this by far. But the drip drip drip effect of crises and scandals in the last 30 years in the BRF...The War of the Wales, Squidygate, Camillagate, the neverending Andrew-Sarah scandals,and now this...are not helpful at all to a public that is growing more 'what have you done for us lately?" in attitude.

I don't think Harry and Meghan should have married, for all her gifts of beauty and intelligence and charm she is not the type of wife he needs...like Sarah Ferguson a generation ago she is simply not suited to Royal life.

As for Harry, I am just really very disappointed in him. I hope by the time he is standing before the bier(s) of his grandparents he will have had time to make amends to them in some meaningful way.

[BaiSoSo]

Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile

They didn't need to--the person who did that was fired in short order. That sent the message that that was not okay.

The firing of the person who did it was too little too late. The spin was going to be negative against the Sussexes and they did their best to prevent that. Besides, it was just the latest in leaks from the Palaces when it came to Harry and Meghan. The couple per Tom Bradby (sp?) was already reluctant to put the plan in writing because they were concerned about it leaking... the Queen, Charles & William (whoever received the plan) should have done more to prevent it from happening to begin with show the Sussexes that they could trust them.

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

The Abdication Crisis of 1936 was the worse than this by far. But the drip drip drip of crises and scandals in the last 30 years in the BRF...The War of the Wales, Squidygate, Camillagate, the never Andrew-Sarah scandals,and now this...are not helpful at all to a public that is growing more 'what you you done for us lately?" in attitude.

I don't think Harry and Meghan should have married, for all her gifts of beauty and intelligence and charm she is not the type of wife he needs...like Sarah Ferguson a generation ago she is simply not suited to Royal life.

As for Harry, I am just really very disappointed in him. I hope by the time he is standing before the bier(s) of his grandparents he will have had time to make amends to them in some meaningful way.

How can you say that Meghan and Harry shouldn't have married and that she isn't the type of wife he needs even though she is intelligent (and my words loving towards him). How do you know what type of wife he needs? As I said before Harry mentioned before how he disliked royal life.... maybe Meghan was exactly the wife he needed....one that could help him transition from a life he didn't like to one that is better suited for him. Why would he have to make amends to his grandparents for leaving the family business? People are just using the age of the Queen & Prince to guilt trip Harry....not a good look.

I hope that Harry and Meghan are successful in their new life/roles and that they have a happy marriage and that Archie grows up with two loving parents in the home. Why would anyone want differently for this family?

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by BaiSoSo

Harry has spoken kindly of Catherine over the years, looked after her and was even with her when she met the Queen for the first time....William was off to a wedding or somewhere else.

It is easy for people who are sitting on the couch not getting abused to say the abused person is overly emotional, petty, childish and unstable because you aren't the one feeling the pain. It is never emotional, petty, childish or unstable to stand up for yourself if you are getting bullied in private or in the media. And no one should have to just get use to it.

The vitriol spewed at Meghan which has been occurring for well over a year was horrible and had racial components to it....something Catherine never had to deal with. But again the Palace (CH, KP or BP) spoke up about simple things such as botox, hair extensions but they couldn't/wouldn't say anything about their (great) grandson, nephew being portrayed as a monkey.

Meanwhile, Meghan was out there doing everything they asked of her 3 tours... 2 while pregnant and 1 with an infant. Helping out UK/Commonwealth people and businesses with her projects. They lived (live) in the smallest of all the royal homes, had the lowest renovation cost and yet the media and those that dislike them always complained about how much they were spending. They complained about the cost of clothes that Meghan owned before she became a royal. The media tried to sabotage her projects (Hubb & Vogue projects) condemned her for eating avocado (when Catherine did something similar is was to cure morning sickness. They called Meghan vulgar for wearing a one-shoulder dress... and not less than a month later Catherine did the same and was praised for it. Catherine never had to put up with being shamed fairly often on a morning show because she didn't want to have drinks with the host. Said host told her to "go back to America" if she isn't happy now he's ranting because she did just that...technically.

The list goes on and on and these are just the things we as fans/the public know about. Even now Meghan is getting blamed for the Sussexes leaving and some even saying she manipulated Harry even though he has stated a few times since 2007 how he wanted to leave the family business but stayed because of his grandmother. Well, he has a child of his own (and a wife) that he needs to put first and didn't want to raise his family in that mess and who could blame him it was horrible.



I don't think they intended to release the website so soon, but they were warned that the Sun was going to publish the story and they weren't getting far with the Queen & heirs and at some point had to take control of their own lives and story. Part of the problem is that the monarchy is slow (in some cases too slow) to react and is often reactive instead of being proactive.

I will only respond to one of your lines which, I insist, is the common American cultural misunderstanding that explains Meghan’s failure to adjust to life in the RF: it is not a “ family business “ ( your words) which can be replaced by an alternative , more “ progressive” celebrity brand; it is a state institution .

[_Heather_]

Originally Posted by Sionevar

As long as they're willing to put in the work, I don't see why Eugenie and Beatrice should not be allowed to step up. Prince Andrew's Epstein troubles are not their fault, and IMHO, they should not suffer for his mistakes. But the Duchess of York would have to accept that she could not get involved.

Exactly my take on it. They absolutely should not be forced to step up if they don't want to but if they do, then great. As long as they're willing to put in the work, except the conditions laid out to them by the Queen and Company, and make every effort to support the Queen and the RF admirably then they should be welcome to do so, particularly in light of the fact that three senior royals are now no longer working for the the Firm. They shouldn't be made to pay for the abominable decisions of their father and it'll have to be made clear that their mother is not welcome to be a part of their working life but as long as they can accept that then more power to them.

[Nico]

Originally Posted by BaiSoSo

But again the Palace (CH, KP or BP) spoke up about simple things such as botox, hair extensions but they couldn't/wouldn't say anything about their (great) grandson, nephew being portrayed as a monkey. .

It's so difficult to understand, apparently, that the Palace can react only for outrageous things printed in the press by journalists (or so called jounalists), not written by some bozos on twitter.
The most virulant, violent, outrageous things written about Meghan were done on social medias by often anonymous individuals.
I can concede that Kate, back then, didn't face this sometimes online vendetta (but i can remember some pretty strong opinions about "Waity Kathy" on this very same forum though).
You can blame until the end of times some kind of imaginary "lack of support" from BP and CH, but they can't chase indefinitely cyber ghosts. By the way i'm pretty sure the mods were well at work on the various Royal Family accounts to delete the most outrageous comments, like they did for Kate and Camilla, does that count for "support" to you ?
Meghan was victim (and as a celebrity she was sureley not alone, just see Michelle Obama and the unfamous Monkey Google search) of what brought her fame : Social medias. It's, sadly, a terrible issue of our times.

[Kataryn]

Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe

Has anyone ever seen a formal statement from the Queen where she refers to members of her family by anything other than their titles? The “Harry and Meghan” reference had me shocked.

My understanding is the Queen can remove the HRH with the stroke of a pen. Removing the peerage would take an Act if Parliament.


https://peeragenews.blogspot.com/202...nd-titles.html

The queen cannot say she is entirely supportive and that they had constructive discussions and then remove the Royal titles from her grandson and his wedded wife as both remain a valued part of her family. As for their names Harry is now Henry Sussex according to the rules for names in the Uk, even if his son Archie is Master Mountbatten-Windsor, which translates into: having no title, only a name.

[texankitcat]

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen

This is a genuine question, and not asked lightly, can anyone point me or give me any articles, videos or statements from Henry supporting his sister-in-law during the “Waity Katie” an such years...

I’m not asking to start a fight, I’m asking for genuine information purposes. Because this is one of the main points of this sibling relationship breakdown.

I don’t recall Harry making any statement to the media about Kate other than saying how excited he was to have Kate join the family when William and Kate got engaged and how excited he was to become an uncle when she was pregnant with George. I am scratching my head (no, not fleas) trying to figure out how this is being touted as a reason for the current tension.

[QueenMathilde]

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen

This is a genuine question, and not asked lightly, can anyone point me or give me any articles, videos or statements from Henry supporting his sister-in-law during the “Waity Katie” an such years...

I’m not asking to start a fight, I’m asking for genuine information purposes. Because this is one of the main points of this sibling relationship breakdown.

I've never seen him do it. But they don't as a rule - the mantra is "never complain, never explain".


As for Meghan and Harry I imagine a lot of it is just made up. Largely by Piers Morgan - that's the biggest mystery to me. Why did she alienate him. She would have done better to have him on her side.


They've denied that William and Harry are fighting, I doubt that Kate is "crying" over Meghan's treatment of her - she has enough problems of her own. Oprah said she isn't going to interview them. Their best bet is to lay low and let this whole thing blow over for a couple of months. If they don't do anything there's less for the media to report on.


This was handled badly but they can straighten it out. There's no reason Harry and Meghan can't be separate from the royal family - they're minor royals. Stay in Canada and get settled.


Oh and don't get political. The worst thing you can do in anyone's country is stick your nose in their politics. It alienates people.

[ACO]

I am sure we will learn of their title status this week. Harry will be heading back after his engagement on Thursday. No doubt they want it as sorted out as possible by then.

My guess: No HRH but will maintain Duke and Duchess of Sussex

[Nico]

Originally Posted by ACO

I am sure we will learn of their title status this week. Harry will be heading back after his engagement on Thursday. No doubt they want it as sorted out as possible by then.

My guess: No HRH but will maintain Duke and Duchess of Sussex

So like divorcees : Henry, duke of Sussex and Meghan, duchess of Sussex ?
Seems a bit drastic for the Queen i think.

[wyevale]

HMQ's short statement mentions family 8 times.

If only Harry reflected on the privileges that family has brought him.. I suspect he will have long, lonely years 'to reflect and repent, at leisure'...