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  #2081  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:00 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ista View Post
I started out today stating on this forum that I thought H and M would get virtually everything they demanded, and based on the tone and content of Her Majesty's statement, I am drastically rethinking that. It feels almost as though what she is saying is that she, Chales and William love Harry and understand his and his wife's desire to do their own thing, but that is on the personal side. The reference to the couple as Harry and Meghan, and then as the Sussexes, no use of their styles or titles really is in stark contrast to that. You can't help wondering what it means.

And yes, so, so sad and unnecessary.

I wouldn't read too much on that statement , one way or the other.



Considering that the Queen has asked for a speedy solution, the concrete details will emerge in the coming days rather than weeks and we will know for sure what exactly Harry and Meghan got and what they did not.


EDIT: Daily Mail's Headline (a pun om Boris Johnson's campaign slogan)


"Queen : Get Megxit done"
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  #2082  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:01 PM
Heir Apparent
 
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Location: Herefordshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,397
The *damage* is certainly done.. no matter the 'family unite' statements likely to be forthcoming, the great British Public have already 'formed a view', and it is far from favourable to the Sussexes .
HMQ will be forgiven, being seen as 'browbeaten' into this, the PoW gets sympathy for having an 'errant' Son, and the DoC enormous respect for 'doing the decent thing' when his brother WILL NOT..

The less time the Sussexes spend in the UK the better, frankly.
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  #2083  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:01 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Wherever I wish, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Funny that what was "agreed", i.e. the move to Canada, is actually one of the most difficult problems to tackle due to the lingering questions about immigration, security, funding, etc.


The statement, however, stresses the sense of entitlement of the royals. Basically, Harry and Meghan have decided to move to Canada and everybody else, including the British and Canadian governments, are commanded to find a way as soon as possible to make it happen.


Republicans will have a field day with that !





I was thinking about that over lunch and I agree it is a good opportunity for new LPs to be issued limiting the HRH to children of a sovereign, children of the heir, and children of the eldest living child of the heir.


The problem is that HM won't agree to take away the HRHs of Beatrice and Eugenie, or of the Gloucesters and the Kents, so it remains to be seen if a special provision will be made to affect Harry and Meghan only and, otherwise, the LPs will apply only to people born after they are issued.


Personally, I think Harry and Meghan might keep the HRH, even if the statement may suggest otherwise
.
But even if we follow the rules you laid out, Harry and Meghan would still be entitled to an HRH as a child of the heir and his spouse. That LP would only affect Archie, and given they aren't even using his courtesy title I doubt H&M would be sad if he didn't get an HRH.
  #2084  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:02 PM
wbenson's Avatar
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I don't think the lack of titles is significant of anything except who wrote the statement, i.e. the press people rather than the protocol people. If their formal status was going to change, there's no need to do some weird foreshadowing beforehand.
  #2085  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:02 PM
Eskimo's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Dallas, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
So the public is attacking the Queen for her statement
Rightfully so.....

This is classic Elizabeth. Head in the sand and misjudging the public mood.

The public are not really concerned as to what they feel as a family. They are concerned about having to pay for semi-private/private "royals" and if these two are looking to cash in on their royal titles and styles.

As someone said up-thread, the BRF wanted the UK and Canadian Governments to figure out how to resolve this problem. In other words, use taxpayer monies to let Harry and Meghan do what they want.

Maybe it is time for the BRF to go. And as a ardent royal watch this pains me to say this
  #2086  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:03 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Woodbury, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
Yes. That was what really got my attention too.

They’ll support it, but she went out of her way to say this wasn’t what they wanted. That was obvious imo, but there’s knowing that the Sussexes were expected and desired to be FT support- especially for William- and directly saying that in the statement.

It really speaks to the tension and hurt around this and how it’s been handled: very poorly from the Sussexes.

Really- this hurts William more than anyone in terms of family support when he’s monarch.
True, though it also hurts Charles - both as King and father. It puts a burden on everyone - it's the domino effect.

I hope public sympathy lies with the Queen and Charles, not with Harry and Meghan.
  #2087  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:04 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 505
A nice place to rest...

"According to the Page Six, Harry and Meghan have been 'hiding out' at a home owned by Canadian billionaire and Clinton pal Frank Giustra - the former owner of Uranium One who donated $31.3 million to the Clinton Foundation - which was later followed by a pledge of at least $100 million."
...
"According to the report, "The main house, called Mille Fleurs, was bought in 2014 and registered under a local country club to shield the identity of the owner. Even the neighbors haven’t known who the buyer is. The home is11,416 square feet, with five bedrooms and eight bathrooms, and the property also boasts a 2,349-square-foot guest cottage with three beds and two baths."
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...rry-and-meghan
  #2088  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:06 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
To me, personally, the statement says that the half in half out nature that the Sussexes wanted wasn’t accepted. What we’ll now see is the workings out of how the title situation should be handled. I think the issuing of new LPs will take place, potentially not just for H&M but for other members of the RF as well.

I think something has been agreed today, now they have to work out the logistics and the legislature if required.

The statement itself shows how much The Queen, Charles and William were blindsided by this.


It certainly left a lot to ponder: agreeing they would no longer be full time members of the family and will be spending time in Canada, but are still valuable members of her family. Whatever exactly that means. You’re right: could be titles are being discussed.

I’m rather glad she’s making it clear how blindsided and hurt -no doubt- she, Charles and William were by this. It was obvious imo, but this statement leaves no room for doubt.
  #2089  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:10 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: May 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillVictoria View Post
But even if we follow the rules you laid out, Harry and Meghan would still be entitled to an HRH as a child of the heir and his spouse. That LP would only affect Archie, and given they aren't even using his courtesy title I doubt H&M would be sad if he didn't get an HRH.

Yes, that is true. I was just trying to say that , if Harry and Meghan lose their HRH, she could take the opportunity also to limit the class of people who would have the princely title going forward.
  #2090  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:10 PM
Claire's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, United Kingdom
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They could follow the Wessex children route - the titles and HRH not there by mutual agreement. No need to change the LP. Just consent.
  #2091  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:12 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Woodbury, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post
Rightfully so.....

This is classic Elizabeth. Head in the sand and misjudging the public mood.

The public are not really concerned as to what they feel as a family. They are concerned about having to pay for semi-private/private "royals" and if these two are looking to cash in on their royal titles and styles.

As someone said up-thread, the BRF wanted the UK and Canadian Governments to figure out how to resolve this problem. In other words, use taxpayer monies to let Harry and Meghan do what they want.

Maybe it is time for the BRF to go. And as a ardent royal watch this pains me to say this
I don't agree at all that the Queen deserves to be attacked - and I don't think she's misjudged the mood. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, however.
  #2092  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:14 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Oakland, United States
Posts: 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Statement from HM The Queen


https://twitter.com/RE_DailyMail/sta...68238975176706


Apparently no concrete arrangements have been announced yet. It seems, however, that they are going ahead with plans to move part time to Canada.
Honestly, this statement (give it take a few lines) is what would have been released eventually by BP had they listened to Charles and, apperaty their aides, and just waited until everything was finalized and ready to be properly shared.
It does not take a genius to realize that.

If they would have waited, they would have been at the same situation they are now: on a break, slowly deconstructing their U.K. life.
Minus the tantrum drama, Meghan fleeing too afraid to face “the family she never had”- that being said it allowed many people to see her true colors so..

What Harry wanted and sadly got was his meeting with the queen, essentially bypassing his father and her explicit request to first clear the plan with him..
Thus essentially disrespecting them both!

My Brit friends say many will not forgive nor forget this move by Harry and Meghan. Especially if the stress of it will cause any harm (ie death) to The Queen or Prince Philip
  #2093  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:15 PM
Royal Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
It certainly left a lot to ponder: agreeing they would no longer be full time members of the family and will be spending time in Canada, but are still valuable members of her family. Whatever exactly that means. You’re right: could be titles are being discussed.

I’m rather glad she’s making it clear how blindsided and hurt -no doubt- she, Charles and William were by this. It was obvious imo, but this statement leaves no room for doubt.
I love the fact that she mentioned that they are "valuable members of the family". It emphasizes and reminds that the BRF, the monarch, the Firm, isn't just a business/Institution, but a real family made up of real human beings.

I hope that when Harry (I've given up on Meghan) is back in Canada, he takes some time to understand the wounds that he has opened up. I HOPE that he will spend time with his father before he returns to his wife and child....and I hope that somehow there will be an olive branch between he and his brother.
  #2094  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:15 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bonn, Germany
Posts: 15
For me, what is somehow the worst of this whole sad mess is the fact that Prince Philip couldn't bear to be present. Whether it's from physical weakness or anger and disappointment or everything together - it's a sign of how things have changed. Even a year ago, I don't believe he would have let his wife weather this storm alone. And he loves Harry.

I may be wrong but I always had the feeling that there's a very soft heart behind all this bluster. When I think that his life could be over in the near future - and this is the situation - and I don't even know whether he saw Harry now or when he will see him again - it somehow breaks my heart.

I understand Meghan's unwillingness to put up with a bitchy press, and understand even more Harry's fierce wish to protect her and Archie.

But my heart is with two old people who have to deal with the fall-out of the decisions of their grandson. When there's trouble enough around.

I HATE seeing Prince Philip as frail. And hurt. :-(
  #2095  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:16 PM
Commoner
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
Whilst I totally agree that the Queen did not sit down and personally pen that statement, I fully believe that she did sign off on it before it was released and would have demanded edits to it if it were not what she wanted released. On mundane subjects perhaps statements are released without her direct signature. However, I 100% believe that in issues such as these, with public feeling at the level that it is, she would not allow a statement to go out on her behalf without personally signing off on it.
I completely agree. The Queen is the Queen. She would have had a final say in this. Whatever the statement says, and the way it was said, was intentional. Make no mistake, I think she and Charles are heading these negotiations. William is just kind of there as part of the succession and a senior royal. I do not think William is controlling anything at this point. But my mind kind of started to wonder from there. I guess what I am trying to say is that Harry is concentrating, rightly so, on his grandmother and father. Absolutely. They hold control over what is decided and how it will be done. BUT Harry also needs to remember is that when the Queen and Charles are gone, he will be dealing with William as the head of the House of Windsor. Just saying. I hope he doesn't make that extremely awkward for himself. The Queen is in her nineties. Charles is in his seventies. William is not yet 40. He will deal with William the longest. And William might remember Harry taking off to Canada and leaving the royal family with quite a few royal engagements to make up for. I do not think William is a mean person. I can see William doing his duty and following through with whatever is agreed upon. But I just hope Harry has thought all of this through.
  #2096  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:18 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Wowzers.

The undertone of “although we would have preferred them”. Shows how much they have forced their own families hand in this.
I think that her remark shows that she at least is not happy with it.. but has given way. And I think its a poor decision on her part...
  #2097  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:19 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Woodbury, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evolvingdoors View Post
Honestly, this statement (give it take a few lines) is what would have been released eventually by BP had they listened to Charles and, apperaty their aides, and just waited until everything was finalized and ready to be properly shared.
It does not take a genius to realize that.

If they would have waited, they would have been at the same situation they are now: on a break, slowly deconstructing their U.K. life.
Minus the tantrum drama, Meghan fleeing too afraid to face “the family she never had”- that being said it allowed many people to see her true colors so..

What Harry wanted and sadly got was his meeting with the queen, essentially bypassing his father and her explicit request to first clear the plan with him..
Thus essentially disrespecting them both!

My Brit friends say many will not forgive nor forget this move by Harry and Meghan. Especially if the stress of it will cause any harm (ie death) to The Queen or Prince Philip
This! They needed to have everything they wanted right NOW.... why, why couldn't they wait? Charles and HM were perfectly amenable to a workable plan as they love Harry deeply and want him to be happy. I feel like Harry and Meghan have used the Queen and Charles' love against them.....and I think they clearly misread the public. It feels like H and M thought their immense popularity would see them through, but they didn't understand that the millions of mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, grandmothers and grandfathers would identify not with them but with HM, Charles and William.
  #2098  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:20 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
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Location: Waterford, United States
Posts: 2,765
I still believe this is a mental health issue rather than a FU Royal Family issue. Things may look very different to both sides from the inside. Let them have a year or whatever in Canada and see what happens then. A little tender patience for this couple is more than warranted.

And the “all we’ve done for them” rings a bit hollow, since it’s mainly ‘just money’.
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  #2099  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:21 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diotima View Post
Fo, and understand even more Harry's fierce wish to protect her and Archie.

But my heart is with two old people who have to deal with the fall-out of the decisions of their grandson. When there's trouble enough around.

I HATE seeing Prince Philip as frail. And hurt. :-(
He's likely to have not been there because the man is ill and old. Not up to dealing wit all this malarkey. Probalby more angry than hurt.
  #2100  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:22 PM
Courtier
 
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Location: Mokane, United States
Posts: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diotima View Post
For me, what is somehow the worst of this whole sad mess is the fact that Prince Philip couldn't bear to be present. Whether it's from physical weakness or anger and disappointment or everything together - it's a sign of how things have changed. Even a year ago, I don't believe he would have let his wife weather this storm alone. And he loves Harry.

I may be wrong but I always had the feeling that there's a very soft heart behind all this bluster. When I think that his life could be over in the near future - and this is the situation - and I don't even know whether he saw Harry now or when he will see him again - it somehow breaks my heart.

I understand Meghan's unwillingness to put up with a bitchy press, and understand even more Harry's fierce wish to protect her and Archie.

But my heart is with two old people who have to deal with the fall-out of the decisions of their grandson. When there's trouble enough around.

I HATE seeing Prince Philip as frail. And hurt. :-(
I agree. I'm sad for Charles and for William but I'm most sad for the Queen and Prince Philip. After a rough end to the year health wise this really isn't something Prince Philip should even have to think about dealing with. He should be able to relish his time with his children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren. Instead he's watching this mess play out. It's terribly sad and quite disrespectful and we all know what kind of toll significant stress can take on the elderly. I've said before and I'll say again, I really hope that Harry never comes to regret his decisions but I suspect that he will very much regret them with time.
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