The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 7: Oct. 2022 - Apr. 2023

[Heavs]

I was a fan of Suits before the Mike issue became too incredibly stupid and I knew Rachel Zane but many people on both sides of the Atlantic had never heard of the show.

Meghan was a working actress, a regular on a show, that is an achievement, it truly is especially in an industry where 70% of people don't have a job at any one time. No one should take that away from her. That said she was also nearing the age where unless you're high profile good roles for women tend to be few and far between. Which is why I initially thought becoming a full time working royal was a 'wise career move' for her and meant it sincerely, given that she did seem interested in charity work.

To act as though she would have been offered the same global fame and opportunities without Harry is just as silly as saying she was nothing without Harry. For example she may have still created a podcast and pitched shows to Netflix but she wouldn't have gotten the deals or publicity for them. Katherine Heigl who 'took over' her slot on Suits was at one point genuinely A list famous and is a successful blogger and charity supporter doesn't get a fraction of the opportunities the Sussexes do.

 

[Granada]

Countessmeout, I guess we will have to disagree on Meghan's star power-celebrity pre dating Harry. I and my family and friends had never heard of her.
Just one update regarding the "clothing line" . It was an offshoot ONLY after She married Harry thru her Smart Works Charity. She was going to partner with Marks and Spencer, Johm Lewis, and Jigsaw according to a then Kensington Palace release. That project went nowhere
And I honestly don't believe that "The Tig" could ever have been considered a hugely successful blog.

I also wish Harry and Meghan had sent Birthday Greetings for King Charles yesterday, that would have been nice. His first Birthday as King.
Sadly, that doesn't give me much hope how situations and relationships will be portrayed in the book.

More "compassion in action" missing again from The Sussex's...

 

[Springbee]

Meghan had a succesful acting career, hugely popular blog, clothing line and numerous high profile charity roles prior. In no way is her name through marriage

I had no idea who she was and I was regular watcher of the channel that her show was on. My favorite show of all time was on that channel. I had heard of the show and even watched an episode or two and either she wasn't in the episodes I watched or I didn't remember her.

 

[Ista]

Let's move on from the issue of how famous the Duchess of Sussex was or was not prior to her marriage. It's beginning to derail the discussion.

 

[Claire]

I'm wondering why top US Navy personnel were attending to Harry at the Pearl Harbor memorial.

Harry and Meghan have not been removed from the protocol list of foreign dignitaries and individuals of the UK. So technically they still represent the British royal family, UK and Commonwealth. Unless that is removed they will get access, royal carpet treatment and the respect that position entails.
Many people have asked why that is - notable the presidency of Ghana where Harry recently visited - the protocol office was not sure if he was to be seen as a UK Prince or Head of charity. Head of Charities do not get to met the President and have a red carpet, unless you are Bono and Angelina Jolie.

And all attempts to get the matter cleared up has fallen on deaf ears at BP. I suppose there has to be a new one soon.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Harry and Meghan have not been removed from the protocol list of foreign dignitaries and individuals of the UK. So technically they still represent the British royal family, UK and Commonwealth. Unless that is removed they will get access, royal carpet treatment and the respect that position entails.
Many people have asked why that is - notable the presidency of Ghana where Harry recently visited - the protocol office was not sure if he was to be seen as a UK Prince or Head of charity. Head of Charities do not get to met the President and have a red carpet, unless you are Bono and Angelina Jolie.

And all attempts to get the matter cleared up has fallen on deaf ears at BP. I suppose there has to be a new one soon.

That’s news to me! I wonder if BP removes them from the list, then they will they not be received by certain heads of state?

 

[Erin9]

The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 7: October 2022-

Harry and Meghan have not been removed from the protocol list of foreign dignitaries and individuals of the UK. So technically they still represent the British royal family, UK and Commonwealth. Unless that is removed they will get access, royal carpet treatment and the respect that position entails.

Many people have asked why that is - notable the presidency of Ghana where Harry recently visited - the protocol office was not sure if he was to be seen as a UK Prince or Head of charity. Head of Charities do not get to met the President and have a red carpet, unless you are Bono and Angelina Jolie.



And all attempts to get the matter cleared up has fallen on deaf ears at BP. I suppose there has to be a new one soon.

I had no idea. This sounds absolutely absurd to me that these 2 are getting privileges like this and other much busier, more important people are essentially having to waste their time on them.

This needs to be dealt with imo.

 

[TLLK]

That’s news to me! I wonder if BP removes them from the list, then they will they not be received by certain heads of state?

I expect that Buckingham Palace is continuing to make the necessary changes during the transition from one reign to another. Just as it's taken some time to make the necessary additions to the list of eligible Counsellors of State, no doubt there will be changes made to the protocol list reflecting the new reign that will be distributed the Commonwealth Realms and Republics as well as other nations.



The Duke of York and the Duke and Duchess of Sussex will likely be removed from the list considering that they no longer carry out official engagements and visits on behalf of the monarchy and the United Kingdom.

 

[Curryong]

Harry is still a Prince and the son of a reigning monarch (one of only two offspring) and will remain that way for the rest of his life, as well as the only brother when William becomes King. As such he will probably need to be treated with some respect by foreign governments in countries and locales he visits (with or without his wife) out of common courtesy, as well as by protocol.

 

[Claire]

If they are removed from the list then they are normal citizens - so yes. I don't think they can. As long as he has a title. Ironically I think the Duke of Windsor was always on these list. It is just a guide on how the person should be treated by a friendly to avoid given offensive to the other country. The US doesn't need to follow it - I doubt BP is going to send them a strongly worded email. Everyone at the moment simply does not know how they should be treated as they still have the titles and they are on the list - so what should they do? They do need some clarity.

However I was recently send a email from a venue in Germany that was forwarded to them from Archewell. And Archewell is sending out the exact protocol guidelines that the top royal's offices forward to the LL before engagements. You know the one that said you can bow, but you don't have to. Address as HM first and then sir thereafter. That guest that will be met with have to be screened ect. This is not how a charity operates - this is how a royal office operates. I mean there was even a security briefing.

Note this is different from diplomatic status or IPP status. He might actually have IPP status in the US - how else is his visa working? At this point who knows.
I wonder if they change the protocol list if it will affect the IPP status? We dont know what the motivation for the special visa was - was it given as a Prince of the UK or head of charity?

 

[Ghost]

If they are removed from the list then they are normal citizens - so yes. I don't think they can. As long as he has a title. Ironically I think the Duke of Windsor was always on these list. It is just a guide on how the person should be treated by a friendly to avoid given offensive to the other country. The US doesn't need to follow it - I doubt BP is going to send them a strongly worded email. Everyone at the moment simply does not know how they should be treated as they still have the titles and they are on the list - so what should they do? They do need some clarity.

However I was recently send a email from a venue in Germany that was forwarded to them from Archewell. And Archewell is sending out the exact protocol guidelines that the top royal's offices forward to the LL before engagements. You know the one that said you can bow, but you don't have to. Address as HM first and then sir thereafter. That guest that will be met with have to be screened ect. This is not how a charity operates - this is how a royal office operates. I mean there was even a security briefing.

Note this is different from diplomatic status or IPP status. He might actually have IPP status in the US - how else is his visa working? At this point who knows.
I wonder if they change the protocol list if it will affect the IPP status? We dont know what the motivation for the special visa was - was it given as a Prince of the UK or head of charity?

This is ridiculous and infuriating. What authority does Archewell have to dictate how people should adress Harry? And is Archewell now managing Invictus? Because they were in Germany for the countdown to Invictus.

 

[Somebody]

I am not sure about the various 'levels' of diplomatic courtesy. However, typically the children of a head of state (even in republics) are treated differently than 'normal citizens' (who aren't close family members of a head of state). However, they would normally not be expected to be received by a foreign head of state when visiting a country for a private or professional visit - but they are treated far from normal...

This is ridiculous and infuriating. What authority does Archewell have to dictate how people should adress Harry? And is Archewell now managing Invictus? Because they were in Germany for the countdown to Invictus.

For Invictus I can see how they might be allowed to use (or request the use of) 'HRH' as that is a continuation from their royal roles but for their Archewell activities they aren't allowed as that is their own private (business) vehicle.

 

[Prinsara]

Note this is different from diplomatic status or IPP status. He might actually have IPP status in the US - how else is his visa working? At this point who knows.
I wonder if they change the protocol list if it will affect the IPP status? We dont know what the motivation for the special visa was - was it given as a Prince of the UK or head of charity?

He is married to a US citizen — that gives you very fast-tracked (essentially automatic) permanent resident status. It's not the same as being there on any normal or even special kind of visa, and is why "green card marriages" (domestic citizen/non-citizen) are so heavily scrutinized by immigration.

 

[Claire]

It is actually a very good question - did they do Archewell work while in Germany? They had Archewell people with them - so it is a good assumption. However I think Harry's new royal court is just called Archewell. He has replaced his private secretary with a manager. But they are essentially doing the exact same work, with a commercial branch. Needless to say there seems to be overlap. It is very blurry.

For example - Harry's trip to Pearl Habour recently was arranged by Archewell. Does Archewell - the studio, media company or the charity, have anything to do with veterans of the World Wars. I doubt that any of the soldiers of WW2 are competing in the Invictus Games. Which branch of this organization needed the PR ?

 

[Durham]

I am not sure about the various 'levels' of diplomatic courtesy. However, typically the children of a head of state (even in republics) are treated differently than 'normal citizens' (who aren't close family members of a head of state). However, they would normally not be expected to be received by a foreign head of state when visiting a country for a private or professional visit - but they are treated far from normal...

I don't suppose anyone would object if he's treated the same as the adult son of any other HofS such as Hunter Biden. But as to the future, siblings of a HofS don't have any sort of status do they? That would make no sense at all.

People are a lot less deferential than they were in the late Duke of Windsor's lifetime so there's going to be a lot less patience with the notion that Harry represents (or benefits from links to) the UK in any capacity. We are in uncharted territory & precedent is no longer a dependable guide to what happens next.

 

[Erin9]

The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 7: October 2022-

I don't suppose anyone would object if he's treated the same as the adult son of any other HofS such as Hunter Biden. But as to the future, siblings of a HofS don't have any sort of status do they? That would make no sense at all.

People are a lot less deferential than they were in the late Duke of Windsor's lifetime so there's going to be a lot less patience with the notion that Harry represents (or benefits from links to) the UK in any capacity. We are in uncharted territory & precedent is no longer a dependable guide to what happens next.

Include me in the “less patience” category.

Harry being the 2nd son of a king isn’t doing much for me at the moment. He doesn’t live in the UK and is no longer a working member of the royal family. It doesn’t help much that he’s continually complained about said family while reaping benefits such as this.

Why exactly did upper members of the US military need to spend (waste- might well be a better word depending) their time on Harry’s visit to a WW II memorial? Seriously.

I suppose in the interests of being fair- Hunter Biden is an ok comparison. But- Harry’s circumstances being what they are- I don’t see it as truly an apples to apples comparison. Not sure who would be off hand.

Agreed on the sibling issue. Is this supposed to be a lifetime courtesy for Harry? Really?!

 

[FigTree]

Include me in the “less patience” category.

Harry being the 2nd son of a king isn’t doing much for me at the moment. He doesn’t live in the UK and is no longer a working member of the royal family. It doesn’t help much that he’s continually complained about said family while reaping benefits such as this.

Why exactly did upper members of the US military need to spend (waste- might well be a better word depending) their time on Harry’s visit to a WW II memorial? Seriously.

I suppose in the interests of being fair- Hunter Biden is an ok comparison. But- Harry’s circumstances being what they are- I don’t see it as truly an apples to apples comparison. Not sure who would be off hand.

Agreed on the sibling issue. Is this supposed to be a lifetime courtesy for Harry? Really?!

My eyes are so far back in my head. However, the Windsor’s were at this for life. Didn’t harm anyone and in the long run who can even remembers, so if it makes them happy and everyone is happy just to ignore them then so be it.

 

[Sunnystar]

I suspect that the revision of the protocol list could be something that is either left alone, because the thought process is why give the Sussexes more reason to complain about how they've been mistreated by BP and the BRF, or it's one, last, minor carrot dangling out there waiting for Harry's book to come out.

 

[muriel]

Harry and Meghan have not been removed from the protocol list of foreign dignitaries and individuals of the UK. So technically they still represent the British royal family, UK and Commonwealth. Unless that is removed they will get access, royal carpet treatment and the respect that position entails.
Many people have asked why that is - notable the presidency of Ghana where Harry recently visited - the protocol office was not sure if he was to be seen as a UK Prince or Head of charity. Head of Charities do not get to met the President and have a red carpet, unless you are Bono and Angelina Jolie.

And all attempts to get the matter cleared up has fallen on deaf ears at BP. I suppose there has to be a new one soon.

I suspect it is just a question of time before H&M are removed from the list. They do not represent the Crown or the UK, so there is no reason, IMO, for them to remain on the list.

 

[muriel]

I suspect that the revision of the protocol list could be something that is either left alone, because the thought process is why give the Sussexes more reason to complain about how they've been mistreated by BP and the BRF, or it's one, last, minor carrot dangling out there waiting for Harry's book to come out.

If I were BP, I would not particularly care if their removal from the list would lead to H&M complaining; history would suggest that the complaining and negative spin from Montecito is unlikely to stop come what may.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

My eyes are so far back in my head. However, the Windsor’s were at this for life. Didn’t harm anyone and in the long run who can even remembers, so if it makes them happy and everyone is happy just to ignore them then so be it.

The Windsor’s were only able to get away with this because it was a long time ago and it was a point of deference. That ship sailed years ago.

 

[Toledo]

I'm reading the transcript from the podcast and I have to say I'm glad she is addressing the situation of the women in Iran right now. When I read the lines from her guest Shohreh Aghdashloo I could actually heard her unique voice in my head! Her voice and acting reminds me of French legendary actress Jeanne Moreau when she did the 2005 TV series Les Rois Maudits.

Positive: Meghan is finally discussing something relevant in the news beyond guests doing self-congratulations and praises that at time feel shallow. Like when people met celebrities and first thing is "I like you on this and that, when you did this and that..." to flatter the ego.

Negative: I don't think the podcast is doing any progress, the official ratings just came out this week and she went from being on top now down to # 27. I assume part of the problem is the topics feel more like going on reverse, as setting us back to the 20th century women's right to vote. I won't be surprised if the guest one day was Eleanor Roosvelt via a Ouija Board.

But not everyone sees it that way, especially when it comes to women.
0:23
I started to notice this, almost default I roll when someone would mention a woman fighting for a cause, and almost, here she goes again, or maybe it was more of stand for something...

Why is she recounts the term suffragette?
1:22
and she explains in the piece that in 1906, this term this word suffragette which is a fraught term Was created by a journalist for a well-known UK publication.
Or shall I say tabloid?

And so he used the diminutive at to belittle them.
Now, as we all know with the word suffragette, this became adopted the world over to refer to women in the suffrage movement. The suffix at, by the way, is literally used to describe a smaller form of something. so, for these women, it was used and adopted globally as a dig for women who wanted the right to vote.


Kidding aside, it was good she discussed Iran in her podcast so more people can be aware of the crisis. Hope she does the situation on women's rights in the Saudi Kingdom and even touch on USA's Mormon Religion old customs of men having multiple 'sister-wives' a review, too. Or at least comment an outrage on Swaziland's young women participating in the King's annual Reed Dance.

I would like her to discuss the here and now, we already know the past and its awful. But the here and now for women in the 21st century is the pressure of social media on them. She blames men often but these trends are also done by women themselves, obsessed with trends like the Kardasians, reality TV (the Housewives, the Batchelor/Bachelorette, and shows that focus on women being taken advantage of like the 90-day Fiancée.

The podcast is at risk of becoming repetitive and that shows in the fallen ratings the followers need to differentiate each episode's theme apart. By being repetitive is when we get the airing the Duchess own grievances and needs to be accepted disguised in third person plural as the women. But this week I'll say it was a good discussion overall.

 

[Granada]

I'm with Sunnystar on this, I believe The Family and Advisors are holding off any actions on the Sussex "situation" until the Book is released and what the Docu-Series actually comes off as. That show is supposedly going to be shown very soon, in December.
Smart move too.
In less than 2 months the strategies of the Sussex will be known and clear. Their aims and goals will be well defined by two public ventures, the Spare book, and a television series about them. No muddying of the waters in terms of how Harry perceives his Family relationships, upbringing and Royal Duties and "treatment" in The Firm. All will be clarified.
And how meeting Meghan changed his life and perspectives for the better. In spite of, Harry will claim obstacles and downright hostility. How much or deep ? By who ?
And the TV series will be about the Sussex lives going forward. As philanthropists, "social influencers" and potential game changers. A rival Court in America, I fear they think can be shown. But they would never characterize it as such. But that is what it could be *perceived* as such by Americans. Like the visit by Harry to Pearl Harbor on Veterans Day, wearing a Poppy. A commingling of British Remembrance Day and America's Veterans Day.
Interesting.

Whether they can achieve that without Buckingham Palace seeing them as abusing their Royal Titles and trading and monetizing The Windsor connections will we see.
The situation in Denmark with Titles being stripped and the talk that Princess Martha Louise in Norway was treading a fine line too in commercial pursuits does strengthen The Firms hand in a way. *If* trust is irrevocably destroyed by the book.

Lots on the line for both Families.

 

[Toledo]

I'm with Sunnystar on this, I believe The Family and Advisors are holding off any actions on the Sussex "situation" until the Book is released and what the Docu-Series actually comes off as. That show is supposedly going to be shown very soon, in December.
Smart move too.
In less than 2 months the strategies of the Sussex will be known and clear. Their aims and goals will be well defined by two public ventures, the Spare book, and a television series about them. No muddying of the waters in terms of how Harry perceives his Family relationships, upbringing and Royal Duties and "treatment" in The Firm. All will be clarified.
And how meeting Meghan changed his life and perspectives for the better. In spite of, Harry will claim obstacles and downright hostility. How much or deep ? By who ?
And the TV series will be about the Sussex lives going forward. As philanthropists, "social influencers" and potential game changers. A rival Court in America, I fear they think can be shown.

Whether they can achieve that without Buckingham Palace seeing them as abusing their Royal Titles and trading and monetizing The Windsor connections will be interesting.
The situation in Denmark with Titles being stripped and the talk that Princess Martha Louise in Norway was treading a fine line too does strengthen The Firms hand in a way. *If* trust is irrevocably destroyed by the book.

Lots on the line for both Families.

Re their work, this week Prince Harry and Meghan Markle's Robert F. Kennedy Human Rights award for fighting racial justice got them in hot water by the son of late Senator Robert Kennedy. Robert Kennedy Jr went public to also question issues presented on their charity claims that are still to be documented. The ceremony is December 6th so I guess we will have an article approved for discussion soon.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I apologize if I have overlooked it as I have not read the entire thread, but where does one go to read the cited "protocol list"? Or, if it is not publicly available, what is the source of that information and is it reliable?

 

[Marengo]

As forwarded by TLLK:

More information regarding the Sussexes being awarded the Robert F. Kennedy Ripple of Hope Award. According to Kerry Kennedy it was that the couple challenged the systemic royal racisim.

https://archive.ph/oK5Qb

 

[FigTree]

As forwarded by TLLK:



https://archive.ph/oK5Qb

That is extremely defamatory as no one suggested the royals are racist...while Meghan implied it in factual inaccurate statements.

Having said that none of Kennedy's apart from Jackie and children were ever thought well by anyone I knew.

 

[Hallo girl]

Harry has allowed himself to be dragged into even stormier waters. Unsubstantiated claims made in an interview along with other claims that a bus could be driven through and found to be inaccurate.

The family have stood back and let the couple make their way , it is almost that is what annoying them that the RF are not responding. All the hinted threats, eg didn’t sign anything etc etc.

Anybody that has read anything about the Kennedy family,know what is going on here. I do not wish to put anything else in print.
I will leave it at that.

 

[Somebody]

That's indeed defamatory as by awarding them for challenging 'systemic royal racism', they publicly state that what happened was due to Meghan being biracial instead of because of a culture clash due to Meghan not fully understanding the royal world as an American (which is how for example very recently the Norwegian royal family is explaining the differences in point of view between them and ML's fiancé) and her different goals in life that ended up not being compatible with the central concept of 'duty' that is ingrained in royal life.

I would hope someone would stand up and defend the BRF - as this accusation should not go unchallenged.

 

[FigTree]

Some fights aren't worth having. But this one doesn't make either party look good. I wish they would just live their very privileged lives and stay away.