The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 6: Aug. 2021- Oct. 2022

[UglyAmerican]

I don't think there's any real doubt that Meghan was lying, not just forgetful. But if she had sincerely forgotten that she'd done it, I think their public denials would have been more sweeping and general: "We had nothing to do with FF" rather than just "We never spoke with Scobie." I remember commenting on that phrasing at the time. If they'd genuinely forgotten that they'd cooperated with the book, I don't think they'd have used that careful phrasing that seemed to intentionally not address the possibility of using someone else as a mouthpiece.

 

[Hallo girl]

The only winners will be the lawyers, did you see how many were in that court room all on mega bucks per hour. As someone pointed out further up the thread , the MOS did print the letter and as a result may still lose the appeal.
If only the couple had let the article go it would have been chip wrappings long ago, but we now have a situation where by Meghan has admitted an oversight that she failed to recall that she had e mail conversations with her communications staff with regards the letter and the cooperation with the book. The optics are bad, yet she appeared to have remembered to tell a friend that she had e mails with regards the royal family, the same friend who popped on UK Tv the morning after the Oprah interview to tell the world about the e mails,

The MOS want the decision knocked back and for the case to go to trial, that is what they always wanted and Meghan fought against. What we are hearing now is what they wanted to present at a trial, that is why they went to the appeal court .

It doesn't matter who wins the case, whether the decision is upheld or it goes to trial, Pandoras box is open, we now all know from Meghans own words what took place. That is what the MOS wanted.
We know know why the MOS refused to settle out of court they wanted the day in court.

Recollections may vary.....priceless,

 

[Heavs]

I think you hit the nail on the head regarding the Mail’s focus.

Now it’s:

What else has Meghan “forgotten”? (I rolled my eyes reading her statement. Not believable at all IMO. I realize she had to say that. She couldn’t admit it was deliberate. It just looks so bad when reading her statement that she just forgot followed by clear evidence of ALL of the time, thought, and strategy that was put into a subject that Meghan now claims to have just conveniently forgotten about.)

What else was carefully worded with intent to deceive?

Fits in very nicely with "recollections may vary" doesn't it?

It was either say "sorry I forgot" or admit to perjury.

The MOS now have it out in the High Court that Meghan and Harry "forget" things and have deliberately planned ways they can get away with lying and misinformation (Harry's email to Jason) Highly ironic given the many times Harry has brought this up over the last few years including just a couple of days ago.

Any time they say anything now it gives the DM and anyone else more of a rein to say "we don't believe you, did you *forget* again?"

I think ANL are going to lose this appeal but I don't think they mind because they've successfully brought up a lot of evidence that would have come up at a full trial and got the Sussexes to admit to being "forgetful" in court. Which they can now use for years to come.

This is exactly why most public figures don't sue. Especially as the letter itself did not make Meghan look bad at all. Because she knew it was going to get released one way or another.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

It doesn't explain how the authors of the book also forgot about the cooperation.

Excellent point!

 

[Curryong]

Meghan’s own explanation in court documents of how she felt she had to write the letter, an explanation that spoke about the pressure from other royals.

In her own court documents, Meghan accused senior royals of putting pressure on her and Prince Harry to stop her dad's attacks.
She suggested the family only became concerned over the "public attacks" when Mr Markle began to criticise them.
Meghan writes: "I was especially sensitive to this as I had very recently married into the family and was eager to please them.

"It is correct that ... the situation was putting significant pressure on my husband, both externally and by his family, and I felt strongly that I needed to do something about it.
"I felt that, even if my attempt to stop my father talking to the media failed, at least my husband would be able to say to his family that I had done everything I could to stop it."
'Refusal to meet dad'

As the attacks became more prominent, Meghan said she was told by a Palace aide she should fly to Mexico and meet Mr Markle in person.
But she says in the witness statement: "It seemed to me, however, that, even had I
wanted to, it was completely unrealistic to think that I could fly discreetly to Mexico, arrive unannounced on his doorstep...to a location and residence I had never visited or known in a small border town that had been descended upon by the press, and somehow hope to speak privately to my father without causing a frenzy of media attention and intrusion that could bring yet more embarrassment to the Royal Family."

Instead, she reignited the discussion over how to "deal with the concern surrounding" her dad and "his dealings with the media" while visiting a senior royal named as B.
Meghan said: "While my husband and I were sitting with Senior Member B, I was told that Senior Member A was on the telephone and wished to speak to me.
"The telephone was passed to me and we had a discussion about the situation in the presence of Senior Member B and my husband.
"Once the call ended, we continued discussions with Senior Member B, and it was only after these discussions, and in accordance with the advice that I received from the two senior family members, as stated in my Re-Amended Reply, I decided, that I would write a letter to my father."

It was previously claimed by her lawyers in court she sent her estranged father the "heartfelt" five-page letter in 2018 after they reached "breaking point".

https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/16694069/meghan-markle-court-claims-credibility/

 

[Erin9]

Fits in very nicely with "recollections may vary" doesn't it?

It was either say "sorry I forgot" or admit to perjury.

The MOS now have it out in the High Court that Meghan and Harry "forget" things and have deliberately planned ways they can get away with lying and misinformation (Harry's email to Jason) Highly ironic given the many times Harry has brought this up over the last few years including just a couple of days ago.

Any time they say anything now it gives the DM and anyone else more of a rein to say "we don't believe you, did you *forget* again?"

I think ANL are going to lose this appeal but I don't think they mind because they've successfully brought up a lot of evidence that would have come up at a full trial and got the Sussexes to admit to being "forgetful" in court. Which they can now use for years to come.

This is exactly why most public figures don't sue. Especially as the letter itself did not make Meghan look bad at all. Because she knew it was going to get released one way or another.

It does indeed.

This may be a case of the Sussexes winning the battle, but losing the war. Now everyone knows just how deceitful and how “forgetful” they can be.

I’m just shaking my head that they laid all this out in an EMAIL. How utterly foolish. They literally wrote out their very detailed, planned intentions to deceive. They wanted to shape their image, but wanted to be able to deny involvement. Nice.

 

[HighGoalHighDreams]

I am sure no one would question or doubt that Meghan was indeed under tremendous pressure, indeed pressure that few of us could conceptualize. But my genuine question is... what does this change? To me, the fact that she is an admitted liar and perjurer is not changed by what led her to lie. Her other statements before and since this time are no more reliable because of the factors that led to her falsehoods, nor is this couple's hypocrisy any less startling.

Perhaps others here, like me, can imagine being driven to cooperate with an unauthorized biography given the depths of pressure Meghan was under. Maybe we can even imagine then trying to coordinate an effort to cover that up (I am being kind) in order to retain supporters.

But the reasonable actions of a person led to publicly lie to their supporters or commit perjury is not then to found an entire nonprofit (Meghan and Harry) on notions that are utterly and totally undermined by these actions; nor are they to launch a campaign against "misinformation" (Harry) when you have just engaged in years of concerted misinformation yourself. That shows a level of callousness and a lack of basic understanding that is difficult for many of us here to comprehend.

 

[Erin9]

I think you really have hit the hammer on the head when you say that "The revelation that she lied underoath completely undercuts her credibility about anything she has ever said"

I agree. Very succinct sum up.

 

[Prinsara]

It does indeed.

This may be a case of the Sussexes winning the battle, but losing the war. Now everyone knows just how deceitful and how “forgetful” they can be.

I’m just shaking my head that they laid all this out in an EMAIL. How utterly foolish. They literally wrote out their very detailed, planned intentions to deceive. They wanted to shape their image, but wanted to be able to deny involvement. Nice.

A long, long time ago I asked my dad about the mother of all modern political scandals, namely: "if you knew you were doing something illegal, why would you tape it?"

His response: “They didn't think they'd get caught.”

Still applies.

 

[Moran]

I am sure no one would question or doubt that Meghan was indeed under tremendous pressure, indeed pressure that few of us could conceptualize. But my genuine question is... what does this change? To me, the fact that she is an admitted liar and perjurer is not changed by what led her to lie. Her other statements before and since this time are no more reliable because of the factors that led to her falsehoods, nor is this couple's hypocrisy any less startling.

My genuine question is... why should we believe the touching story she's spinning now about stress and the RF? It might be true but even if it isn't... what is she supposed to say - I did it willingly and I was fully cognizant of what I was doing and the effect I wanted to achieve? Blaming pressure and other people is the only way she can try to save face.

So, once again: why should we believe it? We were meant to believe her equally firm statement that she had nothing at all to do with the book a year ago.

 

[Fem]

I think you hit the nail on the head regarding the Mail’s focus.

Now it’s:

What else has Meghan “forgotten”? (I rolled my eyes reading her statement. Not believable at all IMO. I realize she had to say that. She couldn’t admit it was deliberate. It just looks so bad when reading her statement that she just forgot followed by clear evidence of ALL of the time, thought, and strategy that was put into a subject that Meghan now claims to have just conveniently forgotten about.)

What else was carefully worded with intent to deceive?

No matter what will be the end of this legal battle with Mail, it's clear who won - and it weren't the Sussexes.

The Mail got something to write about, huge numbers of clicks on their articles, proved the Sussexes did, in the end, cooperated with Scobie on "Finding Freedom" and made money doing that. And now they can do it all over again, even in more nasty ways, because every time Meghan says something, they can throw in that maybe she simply "forgot" about something once again.

That's why so many of us knew since the beginning that sueing them was not the right choice. It just gives the tabloids more cannon fodder.

Also, while I understand what they thought they had to do from a PR perspective, this just makes Harry's position on "misinformation" that much more hilarious, with solid, written evidence that he willingly participated, because he's fine with it as long as it serves him.

 

[ACO]

Today it was revealed that Meghan was asked to search through her emails, text, and files to provide the defense info. It was a sum of 117 words. She said that in her search she missed the email. But also how stressful it was especially as they also requested things such as her child, mother, and things like kiss and sex. Not sure what they had to do with the letter.

Meghan also stated during that time of stress was when she miscarriage. And she was granted the summary judgment hearing and postponement when she learned she was pregnant again. The doctor wanted those early months stress free.

https://www.newsweek.com/meghan-mar...ocial&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1636645777-1

 

[Curryong]

I think it is absolutely clear that the newspaper group couldn’t have cared less what stress their lawyers put Meghan under or about any miscarriages. What they care about first and foremost is clickbait and the money from it.

 

[Erin9]

A long, long time ago I asked my dad about the mother of all modern political scandals, namely: "if you knew you were doing something illegal, why would you tape it?"



His response: “They didn't think they'd get caught.”



Still applies.

Very true.

Certainly applicable to them: They didn’t think they’d get caught. It takes a certain level of arrogance and entitlement to behave like this IMO.

 

[HighGoalHighDreams]

If she did, in fact, "miss the email," it makes this situation incalculably worse.

She knew that she had cooperated in the book, so to say that she missed the email suggests very strongly that she believed there was no written evidence of her cooperation because her searching of her records produced no such records, so she proceeded forward with the lie believing it couldn't be proved.

I hope this is a misinterpretation of something that has been said.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Today it was revealed that Meghan was asked to search through her emails, text, and files to provide the defense info. It was a sum of 117 words. She said that in her search she missed the email. But also how stressful it was especially as they also requested things such as her child, mother, and things like kiss and sex. Not sure what they had to do with the letter.

[...]

https://www.newsweek.com/meghan-mar...ocial&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1636645777-1

From the article you posted, the full quotation from the Duchess of Sussex about the "originally proposed" search terms (later "narrowed down") was:

Meghan said in her statement: "I knew that this would be a labor-intensive and invasive exercise, given the breadth of the search terms originally proposed by [The Mail on Sunday].

"I understood that the 177 search terms included 'I love you,' 'Harry,' 'sex scene,' 'Doria,' 'mother,' 'Kate,' 'William,' 'Suits,' 'baptism,' 'kiss,' 'childcare,' 'Archie,' and countless others (although these were later narrowed down).

"To undertake this process and cope with the accompanying stress, I wanted to wait until I was in better mental and physical health so as to not risk a second miscarriage."

Searches did not go ahead because Meghan secured a quick win without a trial in February.

While I cannot see the relevance to copyright, the "sex scene" and "Suits" search terms possibly relate to the sex scenes in the show Suits, which employed her prior to her marriage.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

I think it is absolutely clear that the newspaper group couldn’t have cared less what stress their lawyers put Meghan under or about any miscarriages. What they care about first and foremost is clickbait and the money from it.

I'm sure they don't care about Meghan. But alhtough she may have different stressors, but I do not believe that she or any member of the royal family has more stress than average people living in Western nations - and our stress is nothing compared to those who live in unsafe areas of the world.

There is give and take with everything in life. The price for seeking the public spotlight as Meghan has done, is that there will be public criticism. If Meghan doesn't want to deal with it, perhaps she should completely retire from public life.

On another point, if she didn't appreciate her father's comments her to the media, perhaps she should keep her comments about the royal family to herself.

 

[Curryong]

I’m not sure that average people in Western nations sit down to breakfast each morning for literally every day for about four years wondering what negative articles in the media will be coming out about them.

In fact I don’t think that any average Briton or European would have any conception of the stresses and strains of royal life has on those not born into it, and that would indeed impact on a foreign high profile royal in a new country with a very new lifestyle.

 

[Claire]

The problem isn't that Meghan forgot and that is to say to legitimately forgot. The fact that Harry, Omid Scobie and Caroline Durant all knew and collaborated the lie. yes - they didnt do it all in court - like Scobie, but collaboration is collaboration.

Essentially this trail is about copywrite and the Mail did invade her copywrite , but it morally wrong to write something, flaunt it around your friends and pass it to people knowing that if they send it to the press you can sue. But that will be okay too as you have worded the document for publication to show you in a good light and even already given the press office copies for when it happens.

Letter of the law the Mail was wrong, but the essential gift wrapped them a story and tempted them to publish so that they could sue so that they can play the victim card, is not cricket.

 

[Osipi]

Very true.

Certainly applicable to them: They didn’t think they’d get caught. It takes a certain level of arrogance and entitlement to behave like this IMO.

¨What a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive¨sums this latest development up quite nicely. Once a deception is put into place, it opens up the floodgates that will require more and more deceptions to build up on top of each other and there´s no way out and no excuses are plausible.

Are we back to crocodile tears and playing the victim with a story about Royal A and Royal B (who cannot be named and also famously has the family mantra of ¨never complain, never explain¨) as whitewashing and reasoning that just somehow seems so very insincere and a last ditch effort to put the blame elsewhere than it belongs.

The MoS has the Sussexes right where they want them. Fodder for more stories and the profits keep rolling in. They´ve given Meghan enough rope and she´s nicely hanging herself with it every time she opens her mouth to ¨explain¨ things.

 

[Hallo girl]

I’m not sure that average people in Western nations sit down to breakfast each morning for literally every day for about four years wondering what negative articles in the media will be coming out about them.

In fact I don’t think that any average Briton or European would have any conception of the stresses and strains of royal life has on those not born into it, and that would indeed impact on a foreign high profile royal in a new country with a very new lifestyle.

I would not disagree with any of this but the bottom line is after months of debate, lawyers, stories etc etc Meghan has admitted she forgot some vital detail. That is all people will chose to remember.

The rights or wrongs of how they actually arrived in court has vanished in a puff of forgetfulness.

 

[Claire]

The sad part of this is that it shows a very unpleasant situation. The Sussex's were attempting to spin positive stories shortly after they were married to hide something. I don't get the get our truth in the public domain idea - as that would simply have involved moving forward and making friends with reporters which could easily been done.
Harry mentions back briefing the press about Thomas Markle. Oddly this is exactly what he has accused the Cambridge of doing about him and Meghan. But in the emails he clearly starts that they are to back brief the press about the Markle family. He has essentially said there is an very embarrassing story there that they don't want getting out. If it was something that they could dress up to their advantage they might have played the card by now or they are waiting to do so.

 

[Curryong]

I don’t accept that the Sussexes were attempting to spin positive stories about themselves in the Press to hide something at all. Everything in those emails shows that they were trying desperately to counter all the negative stories about them in the Press from 2016 onwards.

And why should they play games like making friends with the Press? The people who right from the beginning of their relationship were out to publish as much dirt on Meghan, her family and her past life as they could!

Thomas Markle snr gave numerous interviews complaining about his daughter and son in law before giving that letter to the DM. That was what Harry was commenting on in his email to Jason Knauf.

There was no embarrassing situation regarding Meghan, as with the Markles banging in one direction and the media in every other, virtually nothing important about her life since babyhood has remained unhidden.

 

[Sunnystar]

Why would Meghan be conducting the search of her emails? Wouldn't this be something that was handled by a forensic computer scientist employed by her own law firm with her turning over her electronic devices for the search? Yes, I can imagine it was stressful, discussing what terms needed to be included in the search but this is simply not something that her very well paid attorneys should have left to chance. Pffft at Meghan's current spin on why this email conversation with Knauf was missed/forgotten.

 

[Claire]

Why would Meghan be conducting the search of her emails? Wouldn't this be something that was handled by a forensic computer scientist employed by her own law firm with her turning over her electronic devices for the search? Yes, I can imagine it was stressful, discussing what terms needed to be included in the search but this is simply not something that her very well paid attorneys should have left to chance. Pffft at Meghan's current spin on why this email conversation with Knauf was missed/forgotten.

I think this is only if there is a crime - so different type of trail. This is not a criminal case.

 

[UglyAmerican]

Today it was revealed that Meghan was asked to search through her emails, text, and files to provide the defense info. It was a sum of 117 words. She said that in her search she missed the email. But also how stressful it was especially as they also requested things such as her child, mother, and things like kiss and sex. Not sure what they had to do with the letter.

Meghan also stated during that time of stress was when she miscarriage. And she was granted the summary judgment hearing and postponement when she learned she was pregnant again. The doctor wanted those early months stress free.

https://www.newsweek.com/meghan-mar...ocial&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1636645777-1

Meghan initiated the lawsuit, which means she had control over its timing and its existence. Presumably she also had some control over the timing of her pregnancies. When you choose to initiate a lawsuit, you don't get to selectively hit pause because you've subsequently made other personal choices that combine to make the stress of a lawsuit a bad idea at that time. If she didn't want the stress of a lawsuit to potentially affect her pregnancy, she shouldn't have initiated one at that time.

 

[Moran]

The sad part of this is that it shows a very unpleasant situation.

Yes, and IMO the most unpleasant part of the situation is that they lied with a straight face. I don't care how many unpleasant stories there were about them in the press. I initially stopped reading about them because the stories were so saccharine that I couldn't possibly take them with my morning coffee. Initially, the stories were very flattering, with the rare exception. It was the well trodden path - praise the new bride to high heaven and then bring her down. Each one of the royal women have felt it, save for Camila who has had the "pleasure" of being tabloid fodder literally for decades. She never got a period of flattery.

So what if the tabloids were nasty? Meghan's life or job didn't depend on them. Most of us here agree that it is no justification to carefully orchestrate a campaign to do something and then cry out that you never did such a thing, let alone perjury yourself.

And the things she briefed Jason Knauf on were very disturbing for a self-professed feminist. She didn't want to serve her own child on a silver platter but she would have been happy to throw her half-sister's children to the press to delve into their lives and discover why, exactly, their mother didn't have custody. Whatever Samantha did, it's never OK to bring children into this. Privacy, anyone?

 

[Sunnystar]

I think this is only if there is a crime - so different type of trail. This is not a criminal case.

It doesn't have anything to do with this being a civil vs criminal case. It has everything to do with her attorneys not covering their bases and making sure that there really was nothing there to come back and bite them in the tail.

Either

1) the firm is completely incompetent and didn't think for themselves that they should have a forensic computer scientist handle the search of Meghan & Harry's electronic devices, or

2) they had an inkling of the truth and let Meghan complete the search herself to give themselves an out of "oh, whoopsie, we MISSED THAT, our bad!" should it come out in the future, or

3) Meghan flat out lied to her own attorneys.

Take your pick on which option you believe.

 

[soapstar]

Some more of the emails between Knauf and Meghan.

Nov 19, 2018

Duchess to Mr Knauf:

"Has omid gotten back to you with his outline of what he foresees covering in the book. If so, can please let me know in separate email and then I can make the decision [about whether to invite him to report on a royal engagement] accordingly?"

Dec 10, 2018

Mr Knauf to Duchess:

"Please see attached the areas Omid and Carolyn have asked to discuss with me. My advice is that we do not ask your friends to directly engage with them. I think it is important that we can say hand on heart they had no access, just in case it goes into any difficult territory.

"If you’re happy I will see them later this week to set out the factual background and to provide more recent context. Of course if you still think you would like to have one or two people speak to them on your behalf we will arrange it."

Dec 13, 2018

Mr Knauf to Duchess:

"I also had close to two hours with Omid and Carolyn yesterday. I took them through everything. They are going to time the book for run-up to the baby being born and it is going to be very positive. They are prioritising the US market and will position it as a celebration of you that corrects the record on a number of fronts. I will stay in close contact with them."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-f...pondence-palace-aide-letter-father-biography/

 

[Moran]

I think this is only if there is a crime - so different type of trail. This is not a criminal case.

My lawyer brother always brings his own experts for his clients. Civil cases included. And he asks clients the same questions ten times in a row... and there are still documents that the clients forgot to mention when it was time and are inadmissable as evidence at this or that stage.

Lawyers prefer covering their own bases, just like everyone else in their chosen profession. As well-meaning as clients are, they aren't experts and mistakes are easier to make.