The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 6: Aug. 2021- Oct. 2022

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by Denville

I think it woudl be hurtful to the queen if her grandson was not willing/able to come to her Platinum Jubilee - which is a first for a British monarch.. and even sadder if Meghan and the children dont come and she never gets to see Lili

I think too that the Queen is pragmatic and realistic enough to know the temperature of the climate that surrounds public celebrations and from everything I've ever come to know about HM, she would put her people first when it comes to the public celebrations and even would want to spare her grandson backlash from the public should he and his family decide to attend the public celebrations. The Platinum Jubilee actually is a celebration related to the monarchy and truth be told, Harry is no long relevant at all in the monarchy's scheme of things going into the future. I do believe we'll see Harry alone at anything public surrounding the BRF. Jubilees, memorial services, coronations etc.

Meghan and the kids, of course, would be very welcomed to spend time privately. How much time is the Queen really going to have to spend with her great grandchildren amidst all the different celebrations surrounding the jubilee? Does she really want the backlash and tabloid fodder that'll surround whether or not Harry and his family are presented on the balcony? I remember the last jubilee where folks were up in arms because it was only the succession of the monarchy represented on the balcony appearance. It's wise to scupper anything that could cause a celebration to go sideways and put a damper on the occasion. The Sussexes do tend to create controversy these days no matter where they go or what they do. It's not fair at all but it's the way of the world we live in today.

[Denville]

i dont believe that there is liklely to be any public drama if Harry attends, whether alone or with his family. But it does sound as if perhaps it is not going to happen. But I am sure the queen would long to see him in private with his wife and kids and see her little great grandchild

[Queen Claude]

I am trying to figure out what the Met Police offer that cannot be obtained from a top notch UK-based security firm, or a top-notch security firm with a multi-national footprint. In other words, what are the gaps are between what Met Police can do versus private security, and if that particular gap poses a significant security risk that private security firm can't address in other ways within their means.

One such gap is that I am aware of is that the Met Police can carry firearms, however, AFAIK, RPOs do not routinely have to draw their weapons to protect The Queen and the other royals that they protect.

A possible gap is vehicle escorts, but private security firms also offer vehicle escorts, they may not be able to clear or re-route traffic, but do the Sussexes really need that service? I may be wrong, but I think that RPOs have come up with more discreet and less intrusive means of getting royals to their destinations. I've heard that The Queen and Charles often get motorcades, but Prince George, an heir apparent, goes to school quite a distance from his home, and apparently his security detail have figured a way to get him to and from school, possibly driven by one of his parents, without too much of a ruckus.

Regarding the incident this past summer, what would a Met Police detail done that was not, or could not have been done by private security? OK so Harry is willing to pay for Met protection, but who is going to determine how many Met officers and what means they can employ? Harry? For example, is Harry going to make the call that traffic needs to be stopped when Harry or one of his family members arrives and leaves a location?

As has already been stated, if it is determined that there is a certain level of threat then protection will be offered at no cost to the individual.

Presumably a top-notch UK security firm has former Met Police offices at all levels of their organizations, so protecting someone like Harry and his family should not be a challenge with a lot of unknowns.

[Denville]

well for one thing, the Met can carry guns.. as you say. And It seems like Harry wants the Met officers because they will have local knowledge about security issues in London and in relation to the RF. But that is tricky esp if he is bringing men of his own to help out...

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Osipi

I think too that the Queen is pragmatic and realistic enough to know the temperature of the climate that surrounds public celebrations and from everything I've ever come to know about HM, she would put her people first when it comes to the public celebrations and even would want to spare her grandson backlash from the public should he and his family decide to attend the public celebrations. The Platinum Jubilee actually is a celebration related to the monarchy and truth be told, Harry is no long relevant at all in the monarchy's scheme of things going into the future. I do believe we'll see Harry alone at anything public surrounding the BRF. Jubilees, memorial services, coronations etc.

Meghan and the kids, of course, would be very welcomed to spend time privately. How much time is the Queen really going to have to spend with her great grandchildren amidst all the different celebrations surrounding the jubilee? Does she really want the backlash and tabloid fodder that'll surround whether or not Harry and his family are presented on the balcony? I remember the last jubilee where folks were up in arms because it was only the succession of the monarchy represented on the balcony appearance. It's wise to scupper anything that could cause a celebration to go sideways and put a damper on the occasion. The Sussexes do tend to create controversy these days no matter where they go or what they do. It's not fair at all but it's the way of the world we live in today.

I agree. The jubilee, like the coronation, is a state occasion, not a family affair, so it is reasonable that jubilee events should be attended only by family members who have an official state role. In theory, that would exclude the Duke of Sussex and, as of today, the Duke of York, and their respective immediate families. An exception may be made for Prince Harry if the Prince of Wales insists on it, but I don't see any exception being made for the Duchess of Sussex or the children.

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by Denville

well for one thing, the Met can carry guns.. as you say. And It seems like Harry wants the Met officers because they will have local knowledge about security issues in London and in relation to the RF. But that is tricky esp if he is bringing men of his own to help out...

I think the biggest argument for Harry is that the elite force that provides RPOs for high level security through the Metropolitan Police/Scotland Yard also have access to credible threats and chatter of possible dangers from the Secret Intelligence Service (SIS) known as M-15 and M-16. Private security details do not have access to such information. (I *think* I have that right)

For Americans, it would be like the FBI or the CIA provide pertinent information to the Secret Service to protect the President and his family more closely depending on the information they've gathered both nationally and internationally.

[Denville]

Yes but it might create issues with revealing such information esp if Harry also has his own security men with him. And it would create a dangerous precedent of other people claiming a right to hire the Met's police officers and having access to thier highly sensitive information.

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by Denville

Yes but it might create issues with revealing such information esp if Harry also has his own security men with him. And it would create a dangerous precedent of other people claiming a right to hire the Met's police officers and having access to thier highly sensitive information.

That's exactly the reason why Harry's request for RPOs as "rent-a-cops" isn't going over well for him. As Harry is now a private citizen and doesn't even reside in the UK, he has as much chance of renting a RPO as he would asking the Secret Service in the US for protection detail. It's just not something that Harry is "entitled" to anymore as he was as a working member of the British Royal Family and representing the monarchy and, at times, fulfilling requests from the Home Office to do tours and ambassadorial visits representing the UK and the Queen.

With intelligence services, they're very tight lipped and information is shared on a need to know basis. Harry, just because he was born a prince, doesn't need to know. Same with the majority of the mass population of the UK that are private citizens.

[UglyAmerican]

I'm really going to laugh if this ends up being about guns. Harry and Meghan aren't exactly fans of the Second Amendment (the provision of the US Constitution that grants people the right to own and carry firearms). And of course there are plenty of intelligent arguments to be made against it. But "bearing arms" is shaping up to be one more item on their list of "rules for thee, but not for me." If they don't want others to have the right to carry firearms for private self-defense purposes, perhaps they shouldn't be so quick to demand it for themselves.

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by UglyAmerican

I'm really going to laugh if this ends up being about guns. Harry and Meghan aren't exactly fans of the Second Amendment (the provision of the US Constitution that grants people the right to own and carry firearms). And of course there are plenty of intelligent arguments to be made against it. But "bearing arms" is shaping up to be one more item on their list of "rules for thee, but not for me." If they don't want others to have the right to carry firearms for private self-defense purposes, perhaps they shouldn't be so quick to demand it for themselves.

To be honest, I've never equated Harry's request to rent RPOs with their ability to carry guns or not. Carrying a gun actually wouldn't make Harry any safer. I think he's more paranoid that there's someone out to get him because of being high profile and a "prince" and having served two tours in Afghanistan, he's been trained to as the saying goes "sleep with one eye open at all times". When you've suffered from PTSD, everything that could present a threat to you becomes amplified and to Harry, the elite RPO detail that he took so much for granted all of his life, actually are the best trained and the most well informed security detail he could have. He chose to walk away from that perk of royal life and now wishes he had that perk back again to protect himself and his family from harm.

If I'm remembering right, Harry also expressed his dismay at losing his security detail in the Oprah interview

Harry explained to Oprah: "I never thought I would have had my security removed.

"That was a shock to me. That was what changed the whole plan."

Meghan Markle added: "I even wrote letters to his family.

"I said please keep my husband safe... they said it is just not possible." (Hence why he's petitioned the Home Office for a judicial review.)

So this has been something that has really been bothering Harry ever since he upped the stakes and rode off into the sunset in California. Not surprisingly, his fears haven't abated at all and now he fears even returning to the UK.

Once again, it does seem to me that they've made choices without thinking a lot of things through and how it would affect them long term. The loss of his 24/7 security detail was something that he counted on always being there for himself and his family and he found out differently and it basically is scaring the life out of the guy and really creating a mental crisis for him.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Osipi

That's exactly the reason why Harry's request for RPOs as "rent-a-cops" isn't going over well for him. As Harry is now a private citizen and doesn't even reside in the UK, he has as much chance of renting a RPO as he would asking the Secret Service in the US for protection detail. It's just not something that Harry is "entitled" to anymore as he was as a working member of the British Royal Family and representing the monarchy and, at times, fulfilling requests from the Home Office to do tours and ambassadorial visits representing the UK and the Queen.

With intelligence services, they're very tight lipped and information is shared on a need to know basis. Harry, just because he was born a prince, doesn't need to know. Same with the majority of the mass population of the UK that are private citizens.

I think that that is the worry. If Harry is allowed to do this, then say a divorced ex member of the RF could make the same request of Can I hire the MEt officers /RPOs provided I pay for them. It just seems odd.. Harry's been back in the UK twice in the past 9 months and he has I presume had RPOs looking after him durig those brief visits. Why does he think he wont be safe now?

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by Denville

I think that that is the worry. If Harry is allowed to do this, then say a divorced ex member of the RF could make the same request of Can I hire the MEt officers /RPOs provided I pay for them. It just seems odd.. Harry's been back in the UK twice in the past 9 months and he has I presume had RPOs looking after him durig those brief visits. Why does he think he wont be safe now?

Frankly because I think PTSD and paranoia are the main culprits here. Obviously Harry didn't feel his security was up to snuff when he was followed by a few paparazzi and his fears are amplified when he thinks on the fact that he's responsible for the safety of his wife and his children.

One thing I always believed and still do believe is that Harry is one of those men that are naturally geared to be daddies. His children probably are his world and he'd do anything and everything to assure that they are safe. That's his nature when it comes to kids and I always loved that about him.

[Leopoldine]

There may also be elements of status at play. According to many accounts, they seem very sensitive about the visuals, like no Sussex photos visible during the Queen's Christmas message, or their exclusion from the senior royal processional into Westminster Abbey at the Commonwealth service. Lack of full police protection is another visual indicator of the difference in rank between the Sussexes and Cambridges. I can't help but think it plays at least a small part in their demands for full-on police security.

There are countless other things that could possibly rankle them if they come to the UK for the Jubilee and Philip's anniversary memorial. In the past, we've seen minor royals travel in buses and people carriers to events, while the direct heirs and perhaps some senior royals travel in Bentleys and Rolls Royce saloons from the Royal Mews. What if they are assigned to a people carrier? There will no doubt be many situations, even very minor details, denoting status that will probably upset them.

[UglyAmerican]

Originally Posted by A-Bik

In any case, personally I hope they Meghan, Archie and Lili never, ever, return to the UK.
That would be 100% my choice if I were Meghan. It'll also be best for all sides going forward.

Prince Harry can and should visit his grandmother in her later years, or honour his grandfather at the memorial. Alone.

Plus, Lili's first birthday, June 4th, falls slap bang between the Jubilee celebrations on Jun 3rd - 5th.
Convenient & happy News, as it's not like they can be in 2 places - Cali & UK - at once.

I'll grant you it might be best for all sides if Meghan and the royals never have to interact again - she clearly despises them, and the sentiment is undoubtedly returned, even if the royals are quieter about it. But why does that mean it's best if the Queen never sees Archie again, and never gets to meet Lili? Not getting along with your in-laws is one thing. Using your children as tools to try to force your in-laws to publicly apologize for some perceived slight having nothing to do with the children is quite another, and it's not good for anyone - especially the children. If one parent can't force him or herself to tolerate their in-laws for a few days, that's their own issue, and it doesn't justify preventing the other parent from taking their own children to see their own relatives. The right answer in that case is that the parents who hates the in-laws either sucks it up and manages to be civil because they're an adult and sometimes adults need to do that, or resigns themselves to occasionally being parted from their children on those occasions.

And why is it essential for Lili to be in California for her first birthday? It might be different for a child old enough to understand that 1) today is their birthday, and 2) they're not getting a party on their birthday because Great-Grandma's having a bigger party for herself, but we're talking about a one-year-old. First birthdays are typically geared towards extended family anyway, because one-year-olds can't really have independent meaningful friendships with peers. They can certainly afford to fly Doria to the UK with them if they think her presence on that specific date is important. It's not as if Lili goes to full-time daycare while her parents work, so she's probably never or almost never around other kids her age anyway. If Harry and Meghan have their hearts set on a party with Lili's "friends" from a well-baby group or something like that, that's all well and good, but it makes no difference to Lili whether that happens on her birthday or 1-2 weeks later.

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by Leopoldine

There may also be elements of status at play. According to many accounts, they seem very sensitive about the visuals, like no Sussex photos visible during the Queen's Christmas message, or their exclusion from the senior royal processional into Westminster Abbey at the Commonwealth service. Lack of full police protection is another visual indicator of the difference in rank between the Sussexes and Cambridges. I can't help but think it plays at least a small part in their demands for full-on police security.

There are countless other things that could possibly rankle them if they come to the UK for the Jubilee and Philip's anniversary memorial. In the past, we've seen minor royals travel in buses and people carriers to events, while the direct heirs and perhaps some senior royals travel in Bentleys and Rolls Royce saloons from the Royal Mews. What if they are assigned to a people carrier? There will no doubt be many situations, even very minor details, denoting status that will probably upset them.

There are a bazillion "what ifs" and "could be" and threads and tangents that that could direct an explanation of all kinds of reasons why the Sussexes do the things they do or believe what they believe.

For this discussion when it comes to full time security by RPOs while in the UK, I'm going to stick with the Occam's Razor theory where the simplest explanation backed by facts is the most likely reason.

[Granada]

Why am I NOT surprised by this hornets nest being stirred up in Queen Elizabeth's historic Platinum Jubilee by the perpetually aggrieved Harry and Megan?

Charles publicly offered them accommodations with Him for a Stay. That would also mean top Security arrangements while there. And while attending events with the Family for Jubilee Celebrations, top notch provided Security also.
However that doesn't seem to suit the Sussex's. Why ?

Well because The Sussex (and sometimes the Kids) would be out and about visiting People and Causes AND Castles on their own. Harry and Megan want RPO's providing them "Royal Protection Security". 24\7. Yep, all the Whistle and Bells. Fanfare and excitement. As Harry and Megan believe they deserve.

BUT I suspect that this would ALL be part of a Netflix Special.... Not anything though related to the Family Events of The Jubilee. Thats not going to happen.
But "off duty" I can see it now !!!
"The Duke and Duchess of Sussex Return Home......Showing Archie and Lilibet Dad's Country and Heritage". Video Crews documenting a trip to Diana's Family Home of Althrop. Visits to the Diana Statue, ect.....anything that provides a sprinkling of Royal and Diana 'Fairy Dust'. I bet it would get big ratings on Netflix too.
Sorry to be so cynical. But it seems with these two there are usually ulterior motives. Monetizing The Sussex Brand is number one, usually by criticism of the Family when they don't get their way.
So, if they don't get Royal Protection Services round the Clock, *if* they come back, it will just make for a scathing chapter in Harry's book that is
coming out this year.
For the record, I bet the whole Family comes back. It is just to much publicity for The Sussex's to give up. And whatever drama that results, can and will be used in a documentary and Harry's book. That I am sure of.

[ladongas]

Wasn’t it because he is 6 th in the line of succession? And he still is. To be blunt, with all senior royals being in the same place at the same time, if Harry does not have the same level of security, he- and the “line” could be very vulnerable.

And were I Queen, I would want all of my nearest and dearest to be near to me for this grand occasion. It very well may be the last happy occasion for them all to gather. Continuing to gnaw on the bone of what Harry has done- however that is described- is not a good look for the family. We really don’t know what caused Harry and Meghan to leave, but it could be something rather shocking and poorly-reflecting on the family. Charles is allegedly concerned about the content of Harry’s memoirs.

Protecting the Sussex family on this occasion seems like a no brainer. It would be somewhat healing for all concerned to gather around and celebrate the Queen.
And before anyone mentions money- the BRF has enough to pay for it.

[Osipi]

One thing is clear to me no matter what "motives" Harry and Meghan may have is that they're going to have to be satisfied with whatever protection is afforded them while they're in the UK (staying with Charles, being part of a royal entourage with protection etc) but anything they want to do on their own, they're responsible for providing their own private security force.

The Sussexes are in no position to demand anything at all these days when they visit the UK. They'll be regarded as extended family visiting for specific reasons on their visas. If they want 24/7 protection while in the UK, they'll need to provide it and pay for it themselves.

This "go big or stay home" look isn't doing them any favors whatsoever

[RosieStroud]

Originally Posted by Osipi

I think a lot of people can and do realize that Harry isn't the the epitome of mental health as he is trying to put himself out to be. One thing is evident is that he's aware of his issues and what has gotten him to this point in his life and he's actively trying to find himself. Finding peace and stability and purpose in life doesn't always go smoothly like graduating from high school into the collegiate world and then easing into having a young family to support for anyone and Harry's had more than his share of things happen in life that truly had a traumatic effect on him. It's a process he's still working on but by no means is his road anywhere close to the average person's road.



One thing we all do on our road to discovery of who we are and who we want to be going into the future is dissect our past and place blame here and there because that "caused" it and we react in such a manner. Eventually we do come to an acceptance that we can't change what already has been and we move on and adapt and conform things to how we want things to be in our lives going forward. I believe Harry is in the middle of still figuring things out. He wants the things that he took so very much for granted all his life but also lashes out at those things for causing his trauma and distress. That, in and of itself, is a huge mental conundrum.



I do have absolute faith though that he'll come to terms with himself and what makes him happy and contented but that depends solely on him and his attitude towards things he cannot change and he gains courage to change the things he can. He's still searching for the wisdom to know the difference. It's a personal journey though and not one that should be played out in public as an "influencer"

As often the case with you, Osipi, absolutely spot on!

[Erin9]

Originally Posted by ladongas

Wasn’t it because he is 6 th in the line of succession? And he still is. To be blunt, with all senior royals being in the same place at the same time, if Harry does not have the same level of security, he- and the “line” could be very vulnerable.



And were I Queen, I would want all of my nearest and dearest to be near to me for this grand occasion. It very well may be the last happy occasion for them all to gather. Continuing to gnaw on the bone of what Harry has done- however that is described- is not a good look for the family. We really don’t know what caused Harry and Meghan to leave, but it could be something rather shocking and poorly-reflecting on the family. Charles is allegedly concerned about the content of Harry’s memoirs.



Protecting the Sussex family on this occasion seems like a no brainer. It would be somewhat healing for all concerned to gather around and celebrate the Queen.

And before anyone mentions money- the BRF has enough to pay for it.

The royal family has no say in the security. This isn’t something they control. It’s not about the RF paying for security.

And- I honestly do not see how it’s dangerous for them to come over and visit family privately if that is the first priority. They live on secured estates as it is. I assume- could be wrong- if they really wanted to- they could probably take a helicopter from the airport to the family homes. If traveling by car was out.

I would think any public events- with the RF or on their own- would be second to actually seeing their family.

From how I interpret Harry’s statements- they won’t come at all if they don’t get the security he wants- which apparently they’re simply not entitled to anymore. Unless this review comes to a different conclusion.