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  #81  
Old 06-10-2021, 04:47 AM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by UglyAmerican View Post
Has it been confirmed that he's going for that? And even if he was, wouldn't that be him acting as an individual? My understanding was that it was all planned before Archewell or any of Harry's other independent possibly-income-generating projects existed.
its hardly "work" to do something like this. Its honouring his mother.
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  #82  
Old 06-10-2021, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Durham View Post
Well it sure sounds like from birth in the interview but to coin a phrase recollections may vary.

The idea that the boy was not/might not be made a prince because of his race is risible.

The claim was patently incorrect which is why an apology would be the honourable thing to do. It caused damage to race relations in Britain for a start.
Does Meghan REALLY think that her son wasn't made a prince (or wont be made a prince in due course) because of his race? If so, really why did she ever marry into the family?
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  #83  
Old 06-10-2021, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Does Meghan REALLY think that her son wasn't made a prince (or wont be made a prince in due course) because of his race? If so, really why did she ever marry into the family?
I actually do believe that she thinks this. She spent almost no time with the family before marrying in, so may not have had any real opinion of them at that time. Most Americans (and probably most non-upper-class Brits) would have a first impression of the family as being cool and standoffish, just due to cultural differences. Her views on issues like race were formed well before she met Harry, so it doesn't surprise me that she'd perceive that as racially motivated. She became pregnant shortly after getting married, and by her own account she had serious mental health issues during the pregnancy. Also by her own account, it seems like things only got worse after Archie's birth. I can believe that she perceived and processed information in way that was not securely rooted in reality, and therefore sincerely believes quite a few things that aren't actually true.

Harry, on the other hand... this is his family, his father and grandmother, that he believes would deny his son a title for being the wrong color. I find that much more troubling. None of the excuses one can make for Meghan applies to Harry here. I know he's not the one who made the claims about the title, but he doesn't appear to have tried all that hard to correct Meghan's obvious misunderstandings on the subject, either.
  #84  
Old 06-10-2021, 06:35 AM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by UglyAmerican View Post
I actually do believe that she thinks this. She spent almost no time with the family before marrying in, so may not have had any real opinion of them at that time. Most Americans (and probably most non-upper-class Brits) would have a first impression of the family as being cool and standoffish, just due to cultural differences. Her views on issues like race were formed well before she met Harry, so it doesn't surprise me that she'd perceive that as racially motivated. She became pregnant shortly after getting married, and by her own account she had serious mental health issues during the pregnancy. Also by her own account, it seems like things only got worse after Archie's birth. I can believe that she perceived and processed information in way that was not securely rooted in reality, and therefore sincerely believes quite a few things that aren't actually true.

Harry, on the other hand... this is his family, his father and grandmother, that he believes would deny his son a title for being the wrong color. I find that much more troubling. None of the excuses one can make for Meghan applies to Harry here. I know he's not the one who made the claims about the title, but he doesn't appear to have tried all that hard to correct Meghan's obvious misunderstandings on the subject, either.
I do almost feel a bit sorry for her, if she really thinks that.... but I question why she married into the family then. According ot Harry, they all loved her at the beginning and she found them "the family she'd never had".. so - its all very werid and confusing. Were they friendly to her during the engagement and then turned "cool and snooty"?
And surely, if there were racist feelings, they'd surface during the courtship or engagement? Surely someone would have said "DO you really want to marry her? Wont it be embarrassing when you have children"?
Why would they wait till she was married and pregnant to come up with "What if the kid has darker skin? Do you know that he wont be made a prince then and wont have security".
It just seems pretty odd - what was the point of watiing till after they were married to bring up issues about race?
WRT Harry, I know this wont be a popular view but honestly I think he is mesmerised by Meghan. He does seem to have adopted all her views on everything since they got married and that makes him seem very different to the way he used to be.
Perhaps someone in the family made some remark that he repeated to Meghan and she interpreted it as racist against her baby... and Harry now believes it.
  #85  
Old 06-10-2021, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I do almost feel a bit sorry for her, if she really thinks that.... but I question why she married into the family then. According ot Harry, they all loved her at the beginning and she found them "the family she'd never had".. so - its all very werid and confusing. Were they friendly to her during the engagement and then turned "cool and snooty"?
And surely, if there were racist feelings, they'd surface during the courtship or engagement? Surely someone would have said "DO you really want to marry her? Wont it be embarrassing when you have children"?
Why would they wait till she was married and pregnant to come up with "What if the kid has darker skin? Do you know that he wont be made a prince then and wont have security".
It just seems pretty odd - what was the point of watiing till after they were married to bring up issues about race?
WRT Harry, I know this wont be a popular view but honestly I think he is mesmerised by Meghan. He does seem to have adopted all her views on everything since they got married and that makes him seem very different to the way he used to be.
Perhaps someone in the family made some remark that he repeated to Meghan and she interpreted it as racist against her baby... and Harry now believes it.
Money, fame, clout, connections, a global platform and various opportunities that were unavailable to her before her relationship with Harry, take your pick.
  #86  
Old 06-10-2021, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by RandyDrx View Post
Money, fame, clout, connections, a global platform and various opportunities that were unavailable to her before her relationship with Harry, take your pick.
well that's the cynical explanation. But if it were the reason, would she not have swallowed her anger at occasional unkind remarks etc. and put up with it all, to live the comfortable life as H's wife? Unless she thought that she could dip in and out of royal life as she chose? I suppose that is a possibility, that she thought she'd be so popular that she could do that. But again that raises problems. Royal brides marrying in seem to get a rougher ride these days than they used to, and a "sensible" bride would accept that there would be negative press as well as positive.. nad that in order to lead the good life as a Princess AND have some freedom to nip off to the US to return to acting or some kind of career, one would have to put up iwht the bad press days....

If Meghan heard during her pregnancy that there were racist remarks being made about the baby.. and that he or she would not be made a Prince and would not have security, for these reasons.. I honestly wonder why she stayed in the RF as long as she did?
Did they not take up this issue and say "why is this? You can't take away a baby's' security because of his race." and if they were told that this was going to happen, why not make a fairly immediate exit from the family then, on the grounds that they were indeed heartless and racist?
  #87  
Old 06-10-2021, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Does Meghan REALLY think that her son wasn't made a prince (or wont be made a prince in due course) because of his race? If so, really why did she ever marry into the family?
So much about her confuses me. She says they are the family she never had. Charles walks her down the aisle. The British people liked her (at least at first), but now she hates them and thinks they are horrible racists?
  #88  
Old 06-10-2021, 11:37 AM
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I think that whatever Meghan is, she's not that tough.. (Has Charles really ever heard of tungsten by the way?). She is not IMO very nice or a soft person but she is clearly someone who really really hates and can't handle criticism of any kind. I wonder how she handled bad acting reviews or not getting jobs.
  #89  
Old 06-10-2021, 11:38 AM
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I don't think anybody "hates" anyone. Hate is a strong word. Perhaps disliking is better word to use.. Harry did say they were the family Meghan never had. I think he said this because of the behavior primarily of Samantha Grant (Markle) who was criticizing Meghan during the courtship and marriage. I don't think Meghan and/or Harry his family are "horrible racists." I think that is more speculation. I don't think Meghan "hates." Harry was the one more complaining during that interview and I doubt he "hates" either. I also don't think the "British people" all "liked her." Some of the blogs and media comments showed great negativity towards her when she was first seen with Harry. Some wanted to "stop the wedding." I found that very extreme.
  #90  
Old 06-10-2021, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Sandy345 View Post
I don't think anybody "hates" anyone. Hate is a strong word. Perhaps disliking is better word to use.. Harry did say they were the family Meghan never had. I think he said this because of the behavior primarily of Samantha Grant (Markle) who was criticizing Meghan during the courtship and marriage. I don't think Meghan and/or Harry think they are "horrible racists." I think that is more speculation. I don't think Meghan "hates." Harry was the one more complaining during that interview and I doubt he "hates" either.
? They claimed that the RF wouldn't give Archie a title or security, if he turned out ot be of darker skin? That is pretty horrible racist behaiviour.
  #91  
Old 06-10-2021, 11:42 AM
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Three separate things. Harry said "someone" told him he or she "wondered" about the color of Archie.

Second Issue: Charles stopped paying for their security.

Third issue: Sussexes surprised that Archie got no title.

"hate" never was used by anybody involved in the process (Charles, Harry, et al).
  #92  
Old 06-10-2021, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjolene View Post
So much about her confuses me. She says they are the family she never had. Charles walks her down the aisle. The British people liked her (at least at first), but now she hates them and thinks they are horrible racists?
A word describing a character trait just jumped out at me from behind my chair and bit me on the nose. It's also a word that has been used quite often to describe Harry's mother. Mercurial. We do know that Meghan is not overly close with anyone in her family outside of her mother but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that, at times, when a relationship didn't go well, she dropped them like a hot potato and they were "out of favor". Diana also had this character trait and it was not unusual for her to be on the "outs" with someone that she'd been close with. Mind you, I'm not professing that this is Meghan's character trait as I really don't know her personally but from what I've seen, it's possible that this word could be used to define her personality.

Mercurial people are not easy to live with at all.
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  #93  
Old 06-10-2021, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
A word describing a character trait just jumped out at me from behind my chair and bit me on the nose. It's also a word that has been used quite often to describe Harry's mother. Mercurial. We do know that Meghan is not overly close with anyone in her family outside of her mother but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that, at times, when a relationship didn't go well, she dropped them like a hot potato and they were "out of favor". Diana also had this character trait and it was not unusual for her to be on the "outs" with someone that she'd been close with. Mind you, I'm not professing that this is Meghan's character trait as I really don't know her personally but from what I've seen, it's possible that this word could be used to define her personality.

Mercurial people are not easy to live with at all.
That's a very good observation.
  #94  
Old 06-10-2021, 11:47 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
A word describing a character trait just jumped out at me from behind my chair and bit me on the nose. It's also a word that has been used quite often to describe Harry's mother. Mercurial. We do know that Meghan is not overly close with anyone in her family outside of her mother but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that, at times, when a relationship didn't go well, she dropped them like a hot potato and they were "out of favor". Diana also had this character trait and it was not unusual for her to be on the "outs" with someone that she'd been close with. Mind you, I'm not professing that this is Meghan's character trait as I really don't know her personally but from what I've seen, it's possible that this word could be used to define her personality.

Mercurial people are not easy to live with at all.
Possibly but with Diana, while there were some poeple she never made up quarels with, I think it was a quality of falling out but then making up. Im not saying it made her easy to live with.. but except for a few people I dont think she dropped relationships on a permanent basis. Whereas Meghan does seem to turn very strongly agaisnt people and never revisits the relationship.....
  #95  
Old 06-10-2021, 11:50 AM
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To be fair, I think Harry and Meghan DID try with Thomas Markle, but he went to the media and even revealed later they gave him $30,000 and he kept going back. It is a shame that he chose $$$ going to the media about Meghan than his communicating with them directly. Diana was NOTHING like Meghan, she was blessed with a loving father who would never ever sell her out. John Spencer was a very genial fellow. Diana had loyal friends who did not sell her out. Charles friends pretended to be Diana's friends then she found out they were helping Charles and Camilla's affair by giving them safe houses. Diana had a very difficult situation with Prince Charles who I think was a whole lot more "mercurial." That said, Meghan seems to have not been blessed with "loving" relatives. Meghan's much older half sister rushed to the media to put down her sister despite never spending much time with her. To me it's apples and oranges when Meghan and Diana are compared. It is hard for me to imagine how a father can sell out his daughter to the media for $$$. Very unnatural.
  #96  
Old 06-10-2021, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Sandy345 View Post
Three separate things. Harry said "someone" told him he or she "wondered" about the color of Archie.

Second Issue: Charles stopped paying for their security.

Third issue: Sussexes surprised that Archie got no title.

"hate" never was used by anybody involved in the process (Charles, Harry, et al).
??? Why were they surprised he "got no title?|" He had a title of Earl of Dumbarton and they wouldn't use that. And he was not going to be a HRH Prince until Charles is king. According to what I understand, Meghan believed that he would not be a Prince because of his racial origin and that his security was tied to his being a Prince - which is not the case.
AFAIK Charles dind't pay for their security. They had it free in Canada.. and when the Canadians cut that off, that's when they moved to LA.
  #97  
Old 06-10-2021, 11:53 AM
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I cannot answer questions about motivations or surprises of parties involved. That may never really be discovered definitively.
  #98  
Old 06-10-2021, 11:57 AM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by Sandy345 View Post
I cannot answer questions about motivations or surprises of parties involved. That may never really be discovered definitively.
But it is Royalslife 101 that their children would not get HRH as they were not the grandchildren of the monarch. They would only be HRH when Charles became King....Harry must understand that, even if Meghan didn't.

And security is decided by the Police.. in the UK... As royal guests in Canada, the Can govt paid for their security for a time but they were not likely to do it indefinitely and the couple were not working royals.
  #99  
Old 06-10-2021, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by UglyAmerican View Post
I actually do believe that she thinks this. She spent almost no time with the family before marrying in, so may not have had any real opinion of them at that time. Most Americans (and probably most non-upper-class Brits) would have a first impression of the family as being cool and standoffish, just due to cultural differences. Her views on issues like race were formed well before she met Harry, so it doesn't surprise me that she'd perceive that as racially motivated. She became pregnant shortly after getting married, and by her own account she had serious mental health issues during the pregnancy. Also by her own account, it seems like things only got worse after Archie's birth. I can believe that she perceived and processed information in way that was not securely rooted in reality, and therefore sincerely believes quite a few things that aren't actually true.

Harry, on the other hand... this is his family, his father and grandmother, that he believes would deny his son a title for being the wrong color. I find that much more troubling. None of the excuses one can make for Meghan applies to Harry here. I know he's not the one who made the claims about the title, but he doesn't appear to have tried all that hard to correct Meghan's obvious misunderstandings on the subject, either.
These are all excellent points - thanks for these new insights!
  #100  
Old 06-10-2021, 12:45 PM
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Several speculative or otherwise off topic posts have been removed. There's plenty to discuss about the Sussexes without filling in the blanks with speculation.
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