The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 4: April-June 2021

[Denville]

If it is true that they started talking about a new way forward two years in advance, then I agree that their intention was always not necessarily to leave, but to pursue some kind of "half in, half out" option.

Yes but Im sure that if they had been upfront about that, the queen would have said a firm no to the half in and half out. So I think they weren't totally frank about their wishes.. But I do think that for Meg, the whole marrying Harry was perhaps always a career move.. I just didn't realise that he was so dissatisifed iwht his life that he wanted to get out so badly...

 

[Hallo girl]

Yes but Im sure that if they had been upfront about that, the queen would have said a firm no to the half in and half out. So I think they weren't totally frank about their wishes.. But I do think that for Meg, the whole marrying Harry was perhaps always a career move.. I just didn't realise that he was so dissatisifed iwht his life that he wanted to get out so badly...

I actually wondered if they were up front about the half in half out and had already been told no, the 2 year discussions had either been about trying to find a solution or hoping the couple would settle down to royal duties. They got fed up waiting for a solution to be found, so put out the statement and the website. The financial independence and the security were emphasised which also makes me think that they were the stumbling blocks in the discussions, so they tried to force the Queens hand but it did not work so a year on they do the interview with veiled threats of evidence and paper trails, all as Philip was in the last few weeks of his life.

I agree it was a career move, the Diana links etc etc, even in the interview she quoted Diana, I gave up everything for this family ( paraphrased).

Meghan will move on.

I honestly believe that the family are trying to keep some form of relationship with Harry however tenuous, so that they are there for him in the future. I personally think he will need them in the long run.

or did they always have the idea of doing things " a new way" which essentially was "stepping out of royal life part of the time to live in the US and make money"? According to what they've said, that they never kept the queen out of the loop, I think that they DID always mean to get out. And there were stories going around in the first year or two, about them going to live in Africa, that suggests to me that there WERE discussions with the queen etc, but I think that they weren't completely frank with her. They put it as they wanted to get out part time to have a private life, that they were under strain etc etc and I think that behind the scenes the queen was trying to find some way of giving them some time out..

I had missed this post Denville, that is another slant I had not considered, it is true there were newspaper reports re moving to life a more private/ peaceful life and South Africa was mentioned, so maybe they were not as up front as they might give us to believe,

 

[muriel]

or did they always have the idea of doing things " a new way" which essentially was "stepping out of royal life part of the time to live in the US and make money"? According to what they've said, that they never kept the queen out of the loop, I think that they DID always mean to get out. And there were stories going around in the first year or two, about them going to live in Africa, that suggests to me that there WERE discussions with the queen etc, but I think that they weren't completely frank with her. They put it as they wanted to get out part time to have a private life, that they were under strain etc etc and I think that behind the scenes the queen was trying to find some way of giving them some time out..

I do remember that in the statement put out by BP shortly after H&Ms announcement on 8 January 2020, the Queen had said something along the following lines: that she notes the statement put out by H&M to leave, but talks were at a very early stage and there were complex matters to be resolved.

So clearly there had been some conversations prior to the announcement, but I do not think a concrete proposal of sorts was ever put to HM or Charles.

I am still not convinced that H&M intended to leave at the time of their wedding. However, by late 2018 or early 2019, after the press turned, and H&M probably did not get their way with first William, and then Charles, they may have started to have think about leaving.

 

[Erin9]

I can't work out what's going on with them at all. Surely nobody could be so utterly stupid that they wouldn't realise that accusing your family of racism, on a TV interview, wasn't going to cause huge problems? But then surely nobody could be so stupid that they wouldn't realise that telling a pack of lies about Archie being denied a title and style due to his ethnicity would immediately be exposed as a pack of lies when the media explained the rules (or have the American media ignored that?), or that claiming you were secretly married in the garden by the Archbishop of Canterbury would also be exposed as a lie. None of it makes any sense.

I can’t either.

As you said- Surely nobody can be stupid enough to think that accusing your family of racism on worldwide television is going to end with them saying....no big deal. And the notion that you didn’t think most of the audience wouldn’t focus on on that is equally absurd. Harry isn’t overly academically bright. But you don’t have to be to know this. I can give him enough credit to say: he had to know. It seems to do him a disservice to assume he’s that dense. Certainly Meghan knew.

What I really get stuck on is HM and Philip. Meghan certainly knew they were going to get dragged under the bus personally when she said someone in the family said something racist. You know she did.

Harry then went along with her. He had to know it too. They let it air. HM and Philip immediately got thrown under the bus, naturally. It was everywhere. The Sussexes are on west coast time. That means they had more time than anyone in the United States to see the impact of this. (There are 4 times zones in the US.) No correction that night. Nope they waited until the next day. Harry clarifies. (Interesting how Meghan was not part of the statement. IIRC.) And they both feign shock at the reaction to the racism claim. I do not get this at all. They let it air....then clarified. What changed. Seriously. I don’t follow. I believe Harry loves/ed his grandparents. I don’t think he was personally angry at them. (How Meghan feels, I’m not going to guess.) What on earth was this?

And now of course- Meghan was very close with Philip. I believe a poster said Scobie went so far as to say Philip was the person Meghan was closest to in TRF. Ummm...okay. I don’t know what her relationship was with him, but this narrative is convenient and good PR now.

She’s talking to HM. Repeated reports on that. Implying a level of closeness IMO and that somehow the interview hasn’t impacted HM and her at all IMO. This is after throwing her and her husband, their family and their life’s work under the bus for a worldwide audience. I buy HM being nice. Close, no.

I do think Meghan and Harry were going for immediate impact. Especially in the United States. They knew the marriage and titles issue would show them to be liars eventually. They also knew far fewer people would ever know they had lied.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

I am sure talking to the person who trashed her family while her husband was seriously ill and as we now know in the final weeks of his life will be a comfort to the Queen.

I get the impression from both the interview and other leaks from the Sussex team that Meghan thinks she is handling a 95 year old grandmother whom she can patronise.
As Julia Roberts said ' Big Mistake '
I am sure the queen has been polite , as she knows how to conduct herself, it does not mean for one minute she is in agreement with what was said, or happy with their conduct.
Meghan needs to be able to say that she is still in contact with the queen, do the rest of the family announce that they have spoken to their mother / grand mother, that says it all to me.

All this is demonstrating is that they are not as independent as they would like to make out they are. They need the link to the uk and the family.
The irony is if they had avoided the interview they would have had that , ok there might have been a bit of tension with William but that would hopefully have resolved itself eventually.

I agree with you. What I was trying to say is that the Queen loves Harry, Archie and (I'm pretty sure) Meghan. She probably very much enjoyed a Zoom call with Meghan and Archie before Prince Philip's funeral. I'm sure Archie in particular is absolutely adorable. She will probably be thrilled if Harry's family visits her as soon as they can safely travel.

That said, I doubt she will ever trust Harry and Meghan again. Any future visits will be personal and she will not discuss anything sensitive with them. They will never be welcomed back as working royals during the rest of her reign. Moreover, she will not advise Charles and William to trust them.

Fergie has always said that the Queen is a wonderful, forgiving person - but the Queen is not a fool.

 

[Emmily]

I can't work out what's going on with them at all. Surely nobody could be so utterly stupid that they wouldn't realise that accusing your family of racism, on a TV interview, wasn't going to cause huge problems? But then surely nobody could be so stupid that they wouldn't realise that telling a pack of lies about Archie being denied a title and style due to his ethnicity would immediately be exposed as a pack of lies when the media explained the rules (or have the American media ignored that?), or that claiming you were secretly married in the garden by the Archbishop of Canterbury would also be exposed as a lie. None of it makes any sense.

I can't figure out what to say about Harry either. Many, many posts back there was something about how things are calmer now in the BRF because H & M couldn't figure out or didn't know how things worked regarding what they wanted to do. How could he NOT know this and that what they wanted their roles to be wouldn't work? How could he NOT know that going on Oprah wasn't a good idea? Or that upon returning he wouldn't be greeted with open arms by some of his family (Anne)? I thought he was naive but maybe he is clueless or spoiled and entitled.

 

[Erin9]

You dont think that Harry removed his grandparents because he dimly realised that to attack a man who was as he probably knew then, dying, MIGHT look a bit bad to the American public? It must be obvious now that PHil has died, that harry must have known he wasn't long for this world at the time he did the interview.. and that to have caused poeple to attachk him as a horrible racist, when he was dying, made Harry look bad?

Maybe. It’s possible.

I certainly believe Harry loved his grandparents. And that’s what makes this so hard for me to comprehend. He is angry at Charles and William. Who knows who else. But- I’m not gathering he was personally angry at his grandparents. (Could be wrong there.) But he threw them under the bus. And fixed it the next day after it aired. He had a lot of time to think about what he had done after doing the interview and before it aired. Then there’s the time between it airing and him
clarifying. He was pretty slow to react and clarify IMO.

I can’t make it make sense at all.

 

[Denville]

I agree with you. What I was trying to say is that the Queen loves Harry, Archie and (I'm pretty sure) Meghan. She probably very much enjoyed a Zoom call with Meghan and Archie before Prince Philip's funeral. I'm sure Archie in particular is absolutely adorable. She will probably be thrilled if Harry's family visits her as soon as they can safely travel.

That said, I doubt she will ever trust Harry and Meghan again. Any future visits will be personal and she will not discuss anything sensitive with them. They will never be welcomed back as working royals during the rest of her reign. Moreover, she will not advise Charles and William to trust them.

Fergie has always said that the Queen is a wonderful, forgiving person - but the Queen is not a fool.

I doubt if she loves Meghan. She will love Harry and his kids but I would say that she probably thinks that Meghan roused Harry up to this idea of leaivng the RF and so on, and that without hher Harry would not have done what he did.

I actually wondered if they were up front about the half in half out and had already been told no, the 2 year discussions had either been about trying to find a solution or hoping the couple would settle down to royal duties. They got fed up waiting for a solution to be found, so put out the statement and the website. The financial independence and the security were emphasised which also makes me think that they were the stumbling blocks in the discussions, so they tried to force the Queens hand but it did not work so a year on they do the interview with veiled threats of evidence and paper trails, all as Philip was in the last few weeks of his life.

I agree it was a career move, the Diana links etc etc, even in the interview she quoted Diana, I gave up everything for this family ( paraphrased).

Meghan will move on.

I honestly believe that the family are trying to keep some form of relationship with Harry however tenuous, so that they are there for him in the future. I personally think he will need them in the long run.

its hard to say. If they had told the queen at the beginning of married life that they weren't sure, didn't want to do royal duties, wanted time off etc.. would the queen have let them start with all the work that they did? Surely she would have suggested that they make a slow start, like Will and Kate did? rather than having them appear as full time working royals and then their explosive departure. but perhaps yes they were told "You can't be part timers and take time off to make money, but you can take some time for private life or some kind of job where you are not trying to make a private income." And maybe the queen hoped that that was all clear and that as they had chosen to go on with royal work, they'd be oK but she still tried to work out a plan to give them some time off.
there was also a story that Harry had been offered an estate to run.. but I dont think they'd have wanted that.. so they might have talked about it but ultimately rejected the idea of being gentleman farmers....

 

[Hallo girl]

I agree with you. What I was trying to say is that the Queen loves Harry, Archie and (I'm pretty sure) Meghan. She probably very much enjoyed a Zoom call with Meghan and Archie before Prince Philip's funeral. I'm sure Archie in particular is absolutely adorable. She will probably be thrilled if Harry's family visits her as soon as they can safely travel.

That said, I doubt she will ever trust Harry and Meghan again. Any future visits will be personal and she will not discuss anything sensitive with them. They will never be welcomed back as working royals during the rest of her reign. Moreover, she will not advise Charles and William to trust them.

Fergie has always said that the Queen is a wonderful, forgiving person - but the Queen is not a fool.

I didnt mean to come over nippy but reading back I did, sorry about that, I do see where you are coming from. If the queen rejects contact from Meghan she will lose contact with Archie and Harry , so what is the saying keep your friends close but your enemies closer.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

I didnt mean to come over nippy but reading back I did, sorry about that, I do see where you are coming from. If the queen rejects contact from Meghan she will lose contact with Archie and Harry , so what is the saying keep your friends close but your enemies closer.

I didn't feel you were being "nippy" at all (I love reading new regional expressions). My original post was not very clear.

 

[Erin9]

I doubt if she loves Meghan. She will love Harry and his kids but I would say that she probably thinks that Meghan roused Harry up to this idea of leaivng the RF and so on, and that without hher Harry would not have done what he did.

Harry himself credits Meghan with showing him the light....that he was trapped. So, I suspect HM “credits” Meghan as well to some extent.

One of the more amazing parts was Harry stating that he’d tried to explain to Charles and William that they were trapped too, but that they didn’t get it. But....he has compassion for them. Wow. What a great way of insulting them personally and professionally AND the institution as a whole. And being condescending while he’s at it. It was truly a great mix of being extraordinarily insulting while trying to sound nice about it.

The racism comment deservedly gets a lot of attention, but this was REALLY bad. TBF- I have seen lots of reporters say how bad this is and reports indicate that C/W were deeply upset about this- very believable IMO.

 

[Sionevar]

I can't figure out what to say about Harry either. Many, many posts back there was something about how things are calmer now in the BRF because H & M couldn't figure out or didn't know how things worked regarding what they wanted to do.

There is an article in the Daily Mail on this very topic today.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...arkle-Prince-Harry-kicking-source-claims.html

 

[Moran]

I doubt if she loves Meghan. She will love Harry and his kids but I would say that she probably thinks that Meghan roused Harry up to this idea of leaivng the RF and so on, and that without hher Harry would not have done what he did.

I agree. Plus, I doubt she would ever enjoy a Zoom call or any type of conversation with Meghan. The Queen is no fool and there's no reason to love someone you know is just using you to make herself look better after throwing your entire family under the bus.

Loving her family - Charles and William, everyone else Harry and Meghan threw under the bus - is practically a guarantee that she won't love the woman whose arrival spurred everything on.

I am always surprised when I see people saying that HM loves Harry and Meghan. She surely loves Harry but guess what? She surely loves the family he and Meghan threw under the bus too. And it's human nature to blame it on the partner who isn't blood family. The Queen's family isn't limted to Harry and Meghan alone and I doubt she'd think, "OK, let's pretend that nothing happened so they keep coming. We just won't trust them but it's fine for them to keep making their brand off everyone else in the family." It's terrible optics and it would indicate that HM agrees with their accusations and values them above everyone else.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

At this point, the PR game from Team Sussex is fairly predictable. What I'm curious about is what their PR plan will be in another 4-6 years after HM passes on. There is a very finite window on being able to use the "Oh, Harry & Meghan are still totes tight with the Queen!" angle. By continuing to play this as the Queen = good, Charles/William = bad/trapped, they're going to paint themselves into a corner that will be hard to exit from with any hope of good press after HM passes away. And, frankly, I don't think William is going to be all that keen on letting H&M get away with this game, especially if they continue to attack him or Kate (or potentially their kids - can you just imagine Meghan crying in the another Oprah bombshell interview in a few years about how awful G, C & L treated her kids at Balmoral a couple summers prior?). It's going to be interesting to observe how they try to pivot out of the corner they're boxing themselves into after the Queen is gone.

This has occurred to me, too. I'm sure they have thought of this. They are not stupid enough to believe the Queen will live forever.

My own take is that although William is angry with Harry, Harry doesn't seem to be angry with William. Harry describes his relationship with William as "space" and being on different paths. I could be wrong but Harry's language seems to reflect disappointment rather than anger. Obviously, Meghan doesn't like Catherine but it's not clear how she feels about William. I suspect she dislikes him but understands William is important. I feel that Harry is assuming that he and William can rebuild their relationship over time.

On the other hand, Harry is angry at Charles. Money is part of it but I think it has more to do with issues from his childhood (the divorce, Charles always working, etc.) But, parental love is different and we tend to be more forgiving of our children. I also think Charles feels guilty and likely believes that much of this is his fault. As a result, I think Harry and Meghan reasonably assume that they will be able to get back into Charles's good graces when they decide they need to. Whether that is true or not remains to be seen.

I think they will find that the biggest obstacle is money. I think they can earn a lot of money but I doubt they can earn enough to maintain their current lifestyle for the rest of their lives. I suspect they will need at least $5 million per year to maintain the mansion and for security. If that is true, they have to bring in at least $10 million every year to cover taxes and staff. I think Charles will be willing to give them some money but probably not enough.

 

[Denville]

Harry himself credits Meghan with showing him the light....that he was trapped. So, I suspect HM “credits” Meghan as well to some extent.

One of the more amazing parts was Harry stating that he’d tried to explain to Charles and William that they were trapped too, but that they didn’t get it. But....he has compassion for them. Wow. What a great way of insulting them personally and professionally AND the institution as a whole. And being condescending while he’s at it. It was truly a great mix of being extraordinarily insulting while trying to sound nice about it.

That's a sign that Harry really really has issues wiht his family, particularly I think his father and brother.. that I didn't suspect. That completley obliterates the nice jolly friendly chap that he seemed to be.. that he seems to have a long standing grudge against his closest relatives and is prepared to publicly attack them. That he essentially calls them fools for sticking iwht the monarchy, while still complaining that Charles isn't helping him out enough financially...

 

[US Royal Watcher]

I agree. Plus, I doubt she would ever enjoy a Zoom call or any type of conversation with Meghan. The Queen is no fool and there's no reason to love someone you know is just using you to make herself look better after throwing your entire family under the bus.

Loving her family - Charles and William, everyone else Harry and Meghan threw under the bus - is practically a guarantee that she won't love the woman whose arrival spurred everything on.

I am always surprised when I see people saying that HM loves Harry and Meghan. She surely loves Harry but guess what? She surely loves the family he and Meghan threw under the bus too. And it's human nature to blame it on the partner who isn't blood family. The Queen's family isn't limted to Harry and Meghan alone and I doubt she'd think, "OK, let's pretend that nothing happened so they keep coming. We just won't trust them but it's fine for them to keep making their brand off everyone else in the family." It's terrible optics and it would indicate that HM agrees with their accusations and values them above everyone else.

I understand what you are saying but you can love someone and not like them - and even be very angry. From everything I have read, the Queen is a warm, loving person. I suspect that she developed a loving relationship with Meghan before Meghan's personality started to reveal itself. I'm sure she blames Meghan more than Harry for the current situation, but that doesn't mean that she doesn't care about Meghan at all.

 

[_Heather_]

I understand what you are saying but you can love someone and not like them - and even be very angry. From everything I have read, the Queen is a warm, loving person. I suspect that she developed a loving relationship with Meghan before Meghan's personality started to reveal itself. I'm sure she blames Meghan more than Harry for the current situation, but that doesn't mean that she doesn't care about Meghan at all.

I'm certain that she does care very much about Meghan in a way. Like it or not, she is the mother of two of HM's great-grandchildren. She saw Philip's hurt and anguish over his own family of origin and she saw the hurt that William and Harry suffered at the loss of their mother. She'd never, ever want that for Archie and his sister, no matter what she might personally think of Meghan. So yes, I'm certain that she does care and would never wish harm upon her or hope to see her cut off from the children. She'd never want anything awful to happen to her. It wouldn't make her happy to see tragedy or illness or divorce or estrangement from her children befall Meghan. I would equate it very much like caring for an ex-spouse that you share children with. You may not be in love with them or even like them very much but you still don't want something awful to happen to them both because you're a decent human being and because you can see the hurt that it would cause the children you both love. Same thing, really.

 

[Moran]

I understand what you are saying but you can love someone and not like them - and even be very angry. From everything I have read, the Queen is a warm, loving person. I suspect that she developed a loving relationship with Meghan before Meghan's personality started to reveal itself. I'm sure she blames Meghan more than Harry for the current situation, but that doesn't mean that she doesn't care about Meghan at all.

Caring for someone doesn't equal loving them. And even loving someone doesn't equal enjoying a conversation in which they pretend they never threw your entire family under the bus.

Charity begins at home and Meghan appeared in HM's home just a few years ago. We know what ensued. Honestly, enjoying any non-Archie related contact with Meghan makes HM look the puppet Harry described, only not in the evil courtiers' hands but Harry and Meghan's own. It's been barely a month since Meghan thrashed HM's entire family before millions. I doubt there's any love left here. She might care about Meghan but she surely cares about the ones Meghan branded the evil personified more. So no, to me being warm and loving doesn't mean being this amazing person who overcomes their disappointment to enjoy a conversation with their entire's family detractor.


Why should we think that HM cares about Meghan at all anyway? Not thrashing her publicly in a Meghan-like fashion doesn't mean she cares. It goes both ways. We don't know. But right now, IMO enjoying any contact non-Archie related is stretching it. HM has certainly been aware of their "brand", what they need and how looking cozy with her would just work for them. It sours the enjoyment from the contact significantly.

 

[Denville]

I understand what you are saying but you can love someone and not like them - and even be very angry. From everything I have read, the Queen is a warm, loving person. I suspect that she developed a loving relationship with Meghan before Meghan's personality started to reveal itself. I'm sure she blames Meghan more than Harry for the current situation, but that doesn't mean that she doesn't care about Meghan at all.

I doubt it. I think the queen's cautious about people, and it takes time before she warms to anyone.. and Meghan wasn't in the RF for all that long. In fact it seems as if from early on, Meg was pushing to take time off etc and I would say that the queen has been wary from the beginning. If they were really talking about "getting out" from early on, I cant see how the queen could get to like Meghan.. She would have seen her as a problem and been very wary.
If she had to worry all through the 2 years of their working royal life, about "what is going on with those 2 and how are we going to sort them out," I dont think she would warm very much towards Meghan. She probably feels that Harry's a mixed up young man and feels that iwthout Meghan he would be calmer and not trying to get away as he has done...

 

[Osipi]

I doubt it. I think the queen's cautious about people, and it takes time before she warms to anyone.. and Meghan wasn't in the RF for all that long. In fact it seems as if from early on, Meg was pushing to take time off etc and I would say that the queen has been wary from the beginning. If they were really talking about "getting out" from early on, I cant see how the queen could get to like Meghan.. She would have seen her as a problem and been very wary.
If she had to worry all through the 2 years of their working royal life, about "what is going on with those 2 and how are we going to sort them out," I dont think she would warm very much towards Meghan. She probably feels that Harry's a mixed up young man and feels that iwthout Meghan he would be calmer and not trying to get away as he has done...

There's the old saying too that goes "keep your friends close and your enemies even closer". I'm sure HM would talk to Meghan but the conversation probably remained on a civil and superficial level for the most part. The Queen, as the diplomat she is, is adept at disguising how she really feels. I just keep remembering how President Trump kept gushing that the Queen "loved" him.

For all we know, the Queen may feel that since Meghan came on the scene, she's been leading Harry by the nose ring down the proverbial garden path. Harry's even stated, himself, how because of Meghan, he's "woke" to being "trapped".

 

[Betsypaige]

Maybe. It’s possible.

I certainly believe Harry loved his grandparents. And that’s what makes this so hard for me to comprehend. He is angry at Charles and William. Who knows who else. But- I’m not gathering he was personally angry at his grandparents. (Could be wrong there.) But he threw them under the bus. And fixed it the next day after it aired. He had a lot of time to think about what he had done after doing the interview and before it aired. Then there’s the time between it airing and him
clarifying. He was pretty slow to react and clarify IMO.

I can’t make it make sense at all.

I believe Harry loves his father and brother, but he willingly threw them - especially his father - under the red double decker bus. I think one of Charles’ infamous lines may apply to H: “whatever love means” - because I don’t know if H understands that. It’s one thing to be angry, it’s another thing to be so angry that you deliberately seek to destroy your family. No wonder C is still devastated, William still angry... I’m not sorry to say that H, IMO, has followed Meghan’s path. When she no longer has any use for or is angry at people she supposedly cares about, she’s ruthless - she cuts them out of her life without any warning. If H has followed suit, that IS all on him ..I think M has great sway over him.

 

[Hallo girl]

Since Philips death there has been a number of pieces from previous events etc, and he was giving a speech at an event for a wedding anniversary. He spoke about a successful marriage and he explained it was down to tolerance and he could assure the audience that the queen had an abundance of tolerance. She has shown that with her family at different times and no doubt will continue to do so.

 

[Osipi]

I believe Harry loves his father and brother, but he willingly threw them - especially his father - under the red double decker bus. I think one of Charles’ infamous lines may apply to H: “whatever love means” - because I don’t know if H understands that. It’s one thing to be angry, it’s another thing to be so angry that you deliberately seek to destroy your family. No wonder C is still devastated, William still angry... I’m not sorry to say that H, IMO, has followed Meghan’s path. When she no longer has any use for or is angry at people she supposedly cares about, she’s ruthless - she cuts them out of her life without any warning. If H has followed suit, that IS all on him ..I think M has great sway over him.

Unfortunately, this was also a character trait of Harry's mother quite often. People found themselves on the "outs" quite easily with her.

 

[Betsypaige]

Harry himself credits Meghan with showing him the light....that he was trapped. So, I suspect HM “credits” Meghan as well to some extent.

One of the more amazing parts was Harry stating that he’d tried to explain to Charles and William that they were trapped too, but that they didn’t get it. But....he has compassion for them. Wow. What a great way of insulting them personally and professionally AND the institution as a whole. And being condescending while he’s at it. It was truly a great mix of being extraordinarily insulting while trying to sound nice about it.

The racism comment deservedly gets a lot of attention, but this was REALLY bad. TBF- I have seen lots of reporters say how bad this is and reports indicate that C/W were deeply upset about this- very believable IMO.

Wait, he SAID that he tried to explain to them why they were trapped? Boy, talk about the height of arrogance. Harry had no right to speak for his father and brother, no right to essentially state that because he and M hated the institution and wanted out, that means C and W felt the same way. . This is one issue I have with H and M - their tendency to lecture, to think they know better. C and W live lives of duty and commitment; Harry saying they’re trapped is an outrageous insult to them and the British people. Who exactly have these two served except themselves ? Yes, they’ve done a few good things here and there, but their biggest deals have been to make themselves enough money to keep them in their multi-million dollar mansion.

 

[Erin9]

My own take is that although William is angry with Harry, Harry doesn't seem to be angry with William. Harry describes his relationship with William as "space" and being on different paths. I could be wrong but Harry's language seems to reflect disappointment rather than anger. Obviously, Meghan doesn't like Catherine but it's not clear how she feels about William. I suspect she dislikes him but understands William is important. I feel that Harry is assuming that he and William can rebuild their relationship over time.

Hard to say, but I tend to think Harry is smart enough to know that pointedly showing his anger towards his popular brother too much over his less popular father would be a bad idea.

They were on the outs well before Harry left. Harry himself confirmed that. Probably having at least something to do with him and Meghan not getting what they wanted at the Firm.

Their HIHO plan was poorly thought out, a PR mess- and one that Harry and Meghan must have been pretty embarrassed to have to completely walk back. And they did. Stands to reason IMO he’d be unhappy with William as one of the decision makers.

And honestly that whole bit about Charles and William being “trapped” was nasty disguised as nice IMO. But- still nasty.

Harry seems to assume a lot of things. If you take him at his word he talks about the importance and desire of reconciling with Charles and William....while giving an interview that will absolutely, no doubt make things much worse, not better. He’s either incredibly dumb (which I have trouble buying) or he’s smart enough to say what he knows people want to hear.

.IOW- hard to say what Harry’s real hopes and priorities are. He obviously found throwing his entire family and their life’s work a very high priority since he actually did it. He’s paid lip service to the rest from what (very little admittedly) we know publicly.

 

[Betsypaige]

There is an article in the Daily Mail on this very topic today.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...arkle-Prince-Harry-kicking-source-claims.html

Here’s is the original article the Mail refers to. I shouldn’t wonder that things are calmer, and a lot more..”productive”, lol

As a way of supporting the Queen, the family have scheduled a meeting to sort out future business of the monarchy and design tailor made roles for each of the seven senior members of The Firm.

It will include collaboration and support for one another from the Prince of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall, Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, Princess Anne and the Earl and Countess of Wessex.

Despite the smaller team, a source said that things are "calmer" without Meghan and Harry.

A source said: “One of the main issues with Harry and Meghan when they were part of the working family was their inability to understand how things worked.

"It’s been a lot simpler without them kicking off over why they couldn’t just do what they wanted.


“Things are a lot calmer.”

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-ne...om&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=mirror_main

 

[US Royal Watcher]

Hard to say, but I tend to think Harry is smart enough to know that pointedly showing his anger towards his popular brother too much over his less popular father would be a bad idea.

They were on the outs well before Harry left. Harry himself confirmed that. Probably having at least something to do with him and Meghan not getting what they wanted at the Firm.

Their HIHO plan was poorly thought out, a PR mess- and one that Harry and Meghan must have been pretty embarrassed to have to completely walk back. And they did. Stands to reason IMO he’d be unhappy with William as one of the decision makers.

And honestly that whole bit about Charles and William being “trapped” was nasty disguised as nice IMO. But- still nasty.

Harry seems to assume a lot of things. If you take him at his word he talks about the importance and desire of reconciling with Charles and William....while giving an interview that will absolutely, no doubt make things much worse, not better. He’s either incredibly dumb (which I have trouble buying) or he’s smart enough to say what he knows people want to hear.

.IOW- hard to say what Harry’s real hopes and priorities are. He obviously found throwing his entire family and their life’s work a very high priority since he actually did it. He’s paid lip service to the rest from what (very little admittedly) we know publicly.

Good points. You are probably correct that Harry is angry with William. My original belief was based on my perception that Harry displays completely different attitudes when speaking about William and Charles. With William it is "we're on different paths" and "I'll always be there for him." His language about Charles is very different. I think it is fair to say that Harry is more angry at Charles than he is at William.

 

[valeas]

I am relatively new to this couple, but wonder if Harry ever spoke the truth or when the relationship to C/W broke.
Back in Germany I have watched a documentary, in the UK I think it was broadcasted for C's 70 th.
When Harry talks about his father being so happy to walk Meghan down to the altar.
can anyone else see /or saw William's reaction while Harry is talking?
William looks so uncomfortable not to say he shows strong tensions,
he kneads his hands firmly....gives a glance....
To me it looks as if possibly Harry was already lying then or not knowing Charles' true feelings about the wedding OR William was already critically involved in the couple's relationship then. Maybe something else of course, but many here to think Harry is very unrealistic and I guess Charles knows very well how to hide true emotions just like his mother does, it's part of the job isn't it, so maybe things were not that happy straight from the beginning and once the RF realised Harry would not let her go, just tried to make the best of Meghan and of course gave the two a chance against all their concerns- I mean this is how so many families work.

Excuse me, if my post is confusing and goes back too far, I simply cannot read all threads here without neglecting my family LOL may be this topic has been treated here before.

 

[Erin9]

The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 4: April 2021 -

Since Philips death there has been a number of pieces from previous events etc, and he was giving a speech at an event for a wedding anniversary. He spoke about a successful marriage and he explained it was down to tolerance and he could assure the audience that the queen had an abundance of tolerance. She has shown that with her family at different times and no doubt will continue to do so.

I love that quote from Philip. I don’t doubt it. And importantly: HE knew it and appreciated it. It wasn’t unnoticed by him. It wasn’t taken for granted.

I’m sure she will. She no doubt loves Harry and Archie and certainly would want to see them. How she feels about Meghan- hard to say. But I certainly see her being nice and cordial. For the kids if no one else. And just being smart from a professional POV too.

But- I highly doubt her interaction with Meghan is like the interview is erased, never happened. Which is something of the impression you’d get from those reports of the Sussexes interacting with HM now.

Side note: I don’t think tolerance is a quality Harry and Meghan possess much of.

 

[Erin9]

Unfortunately, this was also a character trait of Harry's mother quite often. People found themselves on the "outs" quite easily with her.

Indeed. The older Harry gets, the more it appears he seems to have picked up a lot of her best and worst character traits.