The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 4: April-June 2021

[ladongas]

Regarding the controversial wreath...

Was there an actual press release from the Sussex family, or did the release come from the florist involved? I’d like to know how this gesture was revealed if anyone can direct me to a link. Thanks.

 

[Erin9]

That is true with respect to the public part of the ceremony but I believe it is not only possible but probable, that as the family lined up for the procession off camera, Anne and Edward acknowledged other members of the family but not Harry.



The family didn't just get out of their cars and take their places in absolute silence and without even looking at each other. In other words, I don't think that William and Harry only spoke in person for the first time after the service. I would be very surprised if Harry, William and Charles had not taken a few minutes to chat before the procession.

.

Exactly. That was my line thinking too. All we saw was them in place for the procession, ready to proceed. But- I imagine there was some acknowledgment of each other when they arrived. Or- if reports are true about Edward and Anne- they simply didn’t acknowledge Harry. And that is believable to me. I doubt the fallout of this mess is confined to Harry’s relationships with William and Harry. A lot of those reasons have already been stated, but also worth noting IMO, Anne and Edward are working members of the royal family.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

Was there an actual press release from the Sussex family, or did the release come from the florist involved? I’d like to know how this gesture was revealed if anyone can direct me to a link. Thanks.

There was no release, per se. It looks like a source close to Meghan and Harry spoke with news media about the wreath around the time the service started. We know that the report had to come from someone close to Meghan and Harry because Omid confirmed the details.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...nce-philips-life/id1354474880?i=1000517569536 (IIRC, Omid starts discussing the wreath about the 40 minute mark. I posted the exact time in an earlier post but can't find it.)

 

[ladongas]

There was no release, per se. It looks like a source close to Meghan and Harry spoke with news media about the wreath around the time the service started. We know that the report had to come from someone close to Meghan and Harry because Omid confirmed the details.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...nce-philips-life/id1354474880?i=1000517569536 (IIRC, Omid starts discussing the wreath about the 40 minute mark. I posted the exact time in an earlier post but can't find it.)

So, a source close to the couple could just be the florists? That seems much more likely than Meghan (or Harry) releasing the information. And certainly the close description of the flowers (and their meanings) would more easily come from the professionals, rather than Meghan carefully describing it all to Scobie.

 

[Heavs]

Was there an actual press release from the Sussex family, or did the release come from the florist involved? I’d like to know how this gesture was revealed if anyone can direct me to a link. Thanks.

Nothing that was posted directly to Archewell or anything but "Sussex Sources" had given it to the Telegraph among other outlets by 2.33pm just as the procession was gathering:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-f...-had-part-prince-philips-funeral-handwritten/

Jack Royston of Newsweek then tweeted about it during the procession causing people to confuse "Meghan's wreath" with HM's tribute on the coffin. Which I'm sure was a complete coincidence.

And now Scobie has talked about it is it is clear that the Sussexes wanted that information out there during the funeral either for Meghan to "be included" in everything (ie the publicity) or maybe even as someone suggested to cause drama.

It wasn't the florists unless they were given permission to be sources. The Telegraph specifically cites "Sussex Sources". This was apparently a florist who was a personal favourite of theirs and had done their wedding and Archie's Christening without saying a word. Why would she risk loosing a famous, well paying, returning client and word getting around that she is indiscreet by suddenly announcing it against their will?

The wording that all media parroted sounds exactly like other Sussex "releases" to the media.

I have no problem with them sending a thoughtful wreath to show they care, that was a lovely gesture. I have a problem with them announcing it to the world just how thoughtful the gesture was and making it all about Meghan and not PP/HM/the family just as the funeral was getting under way, assuring she's part of the headlines on a day that has very little to do with her or them as a couple. Scobie also made sure to mention in his coverage that "Meghan and PP had a special bond and she lost a family member too!"

Also it seems that the gesture to the family and any good it might have done is completely undercut by telling the world about it -which is a big part of the current Sussex problem in general.

We didn't see the Duchess of Gloucester who was also not there send out word about the symbolic wreath she picked out complete with how she and the DoE had a very special bond because they were both Danish and she will miss him dearly etc. If it was part of a larger article on all the wreaths that would be completely different but the others were deliberately kept private.

In itself it's not a huge deal (apart from the timing) but its part of a pattern of behaviour.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

So, a source close to the couple could just be the florists? That seems much more likely than Meghan (or Harry) releasing the information. And certainly the close description of the flowers (and their meanings) would more easily come from the professionals, rather than Meghan carefully describing it all to Scobie.

Possible but not likely. The florist didn't release any details of Archie's christening flowers. And we know that not only did Omid report on it, Meghan and Harry haven't distanced themselves from it.

It would have been fine if after Harry had returned, he either directly or indirectly communicated his thoughts on his grandfather's passing and a reference to his wife's thoughtfulness. Unfortunately, releasing these details around the start of the service seems to me to be Meghan jumping up and down, waving her arms and yelling "look at me, look at me." It got attention but it almost seems counterproductive.

 

[Betsypaige]

Looks like Harry spent some time with his dad before William joined in; I’m so glad about that. I’m really not upset that it appears he’s not staying for the Queen’s birthday - it would have been nice, but I’m glad for the extra day he did spend.

The source told MailOnline this morning: 'Harry and Charles walked and talked at Windsor after the funeral. My understanding is that Harry goes back today. They talked with Harry as a family.'

It is not clear what was discussed at the meeting, but the source said they began the 'long task' of looking at condolence letters send from around the world.'

Charles 'walked and talked' with Harry before 'family summit'

Prince Charles 'walked and talked' with Prince Harry at Windsor Castle after his father the Duke of Edinburgh's funeral before later taking part in a 'family summit', a source said today.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Betsypaige]

The letter writing thing reminds me of how Charles and Philip had communicated for awhile only by letter. In a way, I think it’s a good thing; writing allows you to take your time to say what you want to say without emotions getting in the way.

The Duke of Sussex reached out to Prince Charles after their relationship “hit rock bottom”, as he prepared to see his family for the first time since quitting royal life last year.

But the Prince of Wales remains “very hurt” by Harry’s decision to appear in a tell-all interview last month with US chat show queen Oprah Winfrey, while the Duke of Edinburgh was seriously ill in hospital.

Sources close to the Duke of Sussex - who now lives in California with wife Meghan and their one-year-old boy, Archie - told how he has been “forced to write letters” to his father due to a "complete communication breakdown".

In his correspondence he has "outlined his reasons for leaving" while promising to "respect the institution", sources have revealed.


.....

Charles has since travelled to his Welsh home in Llwynywermod where he is working from home and continuing to observe the royal mourning period which ends on Thursday.

The source said: “Harry didn’t expect everything to be completely back to normal but his feeling after seeing his family was there is a lot of ground to make up.

“Whether that is harder or easier to do on the other side of the world remains to be seen.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-ne...r.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

 

[Alison H]

Saying something by letter can be a very good thing - I agree. No-one's going to interrupt and start yelling and shouting, and you can read the letter through and rewrite it if you feel you haven't said the right thing.

 

[Betsypaige]

Saying something by letter can be a very good thing - I agree. No-one's going to interrupt and start yelling and shouting, and you can read the letter through and rewrite it if you feel you haven't said the right thing.

Exactly. In these articles, it’s looked at as a bad thing, but I see it as the parties acknowledging that it’s better to communicate by letter than to perhaps fight in person. It’s a temporary thing, a way to cool down.

I feel optimistic. It will probably take awhile for things to really get better but in the meantime, they’ve made a start...

 

[US Royal Watcher]

The letter writing thing reminds me of how Charles and Philip had communicated for awhile only by letter. In a way, I think it’s a good thing; writing allows you to take your time to say what you want to say without emotions getting in the way.


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-ne...r.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

I agree that putting things in writing will make it easier to avoid misunderstandings. Unfortunately, this article makes it sound like Harry's communications have been only to justify why he publicized the family conflict and that he hasn't looked at it from his family's point of view. If that is true, I don't blame Charles for cutting off phone contact, especially after the Gayle King debacle.

I can also understand if it is true that William and Charles didn't want to meet with him alone. It's not promising right now but I hope time will help.

 

[Erin9]

Saying something by letter can be a very good thing - I agree. No-one's going to interrupt and start yelling and shouting, and you can read the letter through and rewrite it if you feel you haven't said the right thing.

Agreed. I think letter writing can serve a very useful purpose.

The article reads that Harry was a bit taken aback about just how much his relationship with family (not clear who exactly) had taken a hit post Oprah. Supposedly anyway. Though I can well imagine that seeing everyone in person puts things in a different light.

I tend to take a lot of “sources say” with a grain of salt, but I have no trouble buying into this:

A source said: “One of the main issues with Harry and Meghan when they were part of the working family was their inability to understand how things worked. It’s been a lot simpler without them kicking off over why they couldn’t just do what they wanted.

“Things are a lot calmer.”

I can also understand if it is true that William and Charles didn't want to meet with him alone. It's not promising right now but I hope time will help.

I must have missed that part, but if true, understandable. There’s been a huge breach of trust.

 

[Estel]

Whether Harry is staying or no, it is still not confirmed. I hope he does stay.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

I must have missed that part, but if true, understandable. There’s been a huge breach of trust.

This may not be true but this is my source:
https://www.the-sun.com/news/2733944/prince-harry-talks-william-charles-together-misconstrued/

 

[Estel]

This may not be true but this is my source:
https://www.the-sun.com/news/2733944/prince-harry-talks-william-charles-together-misconstrued/

It was reported in the Mail, too, by Dan Wooton. Is he credible? Seems like some senior officials had spoken to him.
Personally, I think this news is credible, and that the Palace is fine with its release.

 

[Heavs]

This may not be true but this is my source:
https://www.the-sun.com/news/2733944/prince-harry-talks-william-charles-together-misconstrued/

Yes. Taking with a grain of salt as always but IF it's true I can see why they'd want to have a conversation together so that he can't claim one of them said one thing another said the opposite and so Harry can state his side clearly to both of them at the same time so everyone's working from the same conversation.

It certainly doesn't suggest any trust and I can understand why. I imagine that (again if true) that there were serious pronouncements about the consequences of this ending up on Gayle King's morning show tomorrow for one thing.

I don't personally think there's any justification for airing their dirty laundry in public like that, especially as we know know the family knew he wasn't going to live much longer when they shot it.

Given his attitude in the interview I'm not entirely surprised that he's (allegedly) shocked about the depth of anger and betrayal many in the family might be feeling. He apparently didn't realise what "financial independence" meant either and claimed to want a better relationship with his family 5 seconds after throwing them off a cliff in a burning bus.

That said, I do hope it was a start, if only because it's painful to have a massive rift in a family and to avoid any more interviews and drama. Not holding my breath though.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

It was reported in the Mail, too, by Dan Wooton. Is he credible? Seems like some senior officials had spoken to him.
Personally, I think this news is credible, and that the Palace is fine with its release.

I don't know how reliable Wootton is but given the interview, I can believe that the family is a bit leery of talking with Meghan and Harry privately. They won't be able to avoid it forever though, so I think it will be a long time before they trust him with any private thoughts.

 

[Estel]

I don't know how reliable Wootton is but given the interview, I can believe that the family is a bit leery of talking with Meghan and Harry privately. They won't be able to avoid it forever though, so I think it will be a long time before they trust him with any private thoughts.

Yes, but it says that William was there so that the conversation does not get misconstrued in the future. How can William's presence prevent misconstruing, I do not understand. In Harry's version of "us vs them," William was very much the "them."

 

[US Royal Watcher]

Yes, but it says that William was there so that the conversation does not get misconstrued in the future. How can William's presence prevent misconstruing, I do not understand. In Harry's version of "us vs them," William was very much the "them."

I think it is a matter of if Harry gives another interview claiming that Charles said something that Charles didn't, there is a witness. I can't see Charles and William going on record, but they can put the truth out. It's more credible if both Charles and William are saying the same thing. Moreover, they can correct Harry in private, if necessary. I suspect Harry thinks he is telling the truth.

 

[Moran]

I thought Harry and Meghan were going to stay silent after the interview. Why are they keeping us in the loop of their private interactions with Harry's family - if we accept that the information really comes from people close to the Duke of Sussex?


We all saw the interview. Whatever I think of Harry and Meghan - and I make no secret of my opinion, - I never doubted that they felt wronged. I also don't doubt that the RF feels wronged.



I'd be content if they sort the things out among themselves without giving us the details. But I'm curious to know why, if the sources are indeed close to Harry and Meghan, they feel they need sources at all. They are free from the family that silenced them and if they want things out, they can well say so themselves. All this sources game achieves if putting them more into the spotlight which they claimed they wanted to avoid. Unless they are seeking the royal spotlight after claiming that they wouldn't. It is odd, the way they're keeping to the BP ways of dealing with press after complaining of it so much.

 

[Queen Ester]

Doubt if he'll stay. and I doubt if they discussed Oprah. its bound ot be contentious and Im srue they dont want arguments to mar their short time togehter...when they should still be focussing on Philp and the queen

What would they talk about, Harry has his truth, and William and Charles have theirs

 

[Osipi]

I'm just going to stick with what I actually saw and that was William, Kate and Harry talking to each other walking back from the chapel to the castle after the funeral service. I seriously doubt that *anyone* besides William, Harry and Charles knows what was said between them or what their feelings toward each other actually are. It's all speculative.

Actions beget reactions and so many actions by the Sussexes since January, 2020 have been detrimental to the way things were as a family. Having disagreements on how things go on the business side of things happen but there was so much that just threw the family, themselves, under the bus that it did affect the familial relationships. Harry and Meghan have totally walked away from the institution of the monarchy and it's "Firm" and that's a split, I believe, that cannot ever be mended in any way, shape or form. I do sincerely hope they can mend the familial rifts and be on good terms with each other but, as many have stated, the element of trust has disappeared and that will take a very long while to reestablish again. If ever.

Harry, being able to see and bit with his family, even for a short while, is an icebreaker but its still a long ways to go before that ice totally melts away.

 

[Betsypaige]

I think the point was for father and sons to talk together, alone, with NO courtiers or anyone around them. With all of them together, there is less of a chance of miscommunication - which is at the heart of this rift.

Here’s something very interesting and, IMO, positive. Charles, William, Harry and Kate talked for about 2 hours at Frogmore. I guess Harry must have felt like he was going to be tag teamed by his father and brother, but it’s fine that he wanted it at Frogmore. It’s a start, a good start. It will take time, but healing can happen. They just have to look at Charles’ relationships with his own parents.

An insider said that Princess Eugenie and her husband Jack Brooksbank, who now live at Frogmore, “made themselves scarce as Harry, William, Kate and Charles hammered things out”.

They added: “Harry obviously felt outnumbered as there are three of them and only one of him so wanted it to be on his home turf.


“There is no way this is the end of the crisis in their relationships but it’s a good gesture and a nice way to take the first step towards healing.

“William, Kate and Charles all left after about two hours, which was long enough for the process of getting father and brothers talking again to start.”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14701878/charles-william-kate-talks-harry-frogmore/




https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14701878/charles-william-kate-talks-harry-frogmore/

Agreed. I think letter writing can serve a very useful purpose.

The article reads that Harry was a bit taken aback about just how much his relationship with family (not clear who exactly) had taken a hit post Oprah. Supposedly anyway. Though I can well imagine that seeing everyone in person puts things in a different light.

I tend to take a lot of “sources say” with a grain of salt, but I have no trouble buying into this:

A source said: “One of the main issues with Harry and Meghan when they were part of the working family was their inability to understand how things worked. It’s been a lot simpler without them kicking off over why they couldn’t just do what they wanted.

“Things are a lot calmer.”

Harry seems kind of naive, to be honest. I’m not sure why he wouldn’t think that interview would create a lot of hurt and anger. In any case, even before the interview, it’s obvious there were issues...misunderstandings, miscommunication, and look where that lead.

A part of me thinks it’s probably a good thing that Harry is going back. Father and sons have had a good start, and now everyone can take a deep breath. They can still chat on Zoom, and honestly, I DO believe Harry will be back, maybe even Meghan.

 

[Fijiro]

RF sources should stop leaking all these information about the trio's meeting, talking for two hours, letter writing, etc.? To start healing in good faith, I think "sources" needs to be curtailed on all sides.

 

[ACO]

I have learned more from all these royal sources than I ever learned from Gayle's comment about a conversation being "unproductive." My goodness.

They should worry less about her and start plugging up their own leaks. At least she was brave enough to say it with her chest and not hide.

Anyways the press seems to think Meghan's due date is in June. Maybe Harry told his family and that made its way to the media via sources. So if true, depending on when baby girl is born, we very well could see them all in the UK in the summer.

Harry would likely want to return for the statue reveal if it is not postponed.

 

[Eskimo]

I agree that putting things in writing will make it easier to avoid misunderstandings. Unfortunately, this article makes it sound like Harry's communications have been only to justify why he publicized the family conflict and that he hasn't looked at it from his family's point of view. If that is true, I don't blame Charles for cutting off phone contact, especially after the Gayle King debacle.

I can also understand if it is true that William and Charles didn't want to meet with him alone. It's not promising right now but I hope time will help.

I don’t think we’re talking personal letters between them. IMO, it will be professional, legally sanctioned, communication with the full expectation that it will be leaked. All parties involved are hopelessly naive if they do anything else.

 

[Roslyn]

Harry and Meghan said a lot of stuff they should not have said in that Oprah interview, but I didn't think the "unproductive" comment by Gayle was anything to complain about. It said nothing.

I am not sure whether Harry is staying for his grandmother's birthday, but I think it might be better for all if he went home. The birthday celebrations - whatever form they take at this not only difficult (Covid restrictions) and very sad time would surely be a lot more relaxed for everyone if Harry is not present.

 

[Sandy345]

I don't think Harry will reveal publicly when he is leaving. It is speculation IMO.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

I have learned more from all these royal sources than I ever learned from Gayle's comment about a conversation being "unproductive." My goodness.

The fact that they talked for two hours seems to have come from palace sources but there is no information about the substance of the talks. On the other hand, the sources for the letter writing seem to be close to Harry. I agree there are leaks from the palace but there seem to be more from Harry and Meghan.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14701342/prince-harry-charles-personal-note-ahead-philips-funeral/

 

[Erin9]

Harry and Meghan said a lot of stuff they should not have said in that Oprah interview, but I didn't think the "unproductive" comment by Gayle was anything to complain about. It said nothing.

I think the biggest problem is that anything was said- not the substance of what it was.

If Harry was really so naive that he couldn’t comprehend that taking a family dispute public was going to hurt and anger his family, he should have been crystal clear afterwards that saying anything further- anything- would be a huge mistake. He did it anyway.