The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 4: April-June 2021

[suztav]

Harry, Meghan, and Oprah's hypocrisy is positively ridiculous. They want people to "understand" them, to "be empathetic" to them ... BUT, THEY want to criticize an institution that has been around for over 1,000 years and they want it to turn on a dime.

BTW, if Meghan and Harry were able to call QEII on her cell phone and/or Zoom prior to the funeral ... why didn't Harry use the same mechanisms when he felt his wife was at her breaking point?

Total hypocrites!

 

[camelot23ca]

At this point in time having listened to the podcast and having watched the special, that Prince Harry is clearly struggling with his mental health. I am truly concerned for the well being of his family especially with in regards to his wife, son and soon to be born daughter. The arrival of a new member is joyful but it brings change and stress with it. This could be a very challenging time ahead for the Sussexes.

This is part of what puts the BRF in a difficult position. They’re likely very angry and hurt, and they have a right to want to protect their own well being and privacy, and in William’s case, that of his small children. Right now it’s hard to see how they can do that if they have any meaningful contact with Harry and Meghan.

But they’re also likely extremely worried about Harry, who doesn’t seem to be in a very stable emotional place right now, to put it mildly. Cutting off contact entirely could lead to a deterioration in Harry’s mental state, which I’m sure his family wants to avoid, no matter how angry they are. At the very least, they’ve got to be concerned about Archie and what he’s being exposed to.

 

[Moran]

Thank you for sharing your insight based on your experience - I know others have as well.

Even after the Oprah interview, I was hopeful that the family relationship could be repaired. Never say never, but it is hard to see a way back to his family after this. I assume he will come back for the unveiling of the statue, but I think it will be very uncomfortable for them to spend any length of time in the UK.

I assume they may visit the Queen this summer to show how loving and supportive they are, but I don't see much interaction with the rest of the family. Even though Harry is not criticizing William, I have a hard time seeing William wanting to spend much time with Harry and Meghan.

Regarding future events, I think Harry will be treated as a minor royal or a non-royal family member at occasions like the Trooping of the Color and the Jubilee, which I don't think he will be happy about.

I wondered how the RF could reconcile taking care of Harry, provided that he's really that unwell mentally, with parenting the actual children in the family. I already said enough about William and his children - but let's say, Edward and his? I imagine it was no fun for Lady Louise and young James to go back to school after Harry and Meghan threw their winning card at the table. Of course, I'm talking about the racist accusation. I suppose Edward and Sophie, as well-mannered as they are, will care more about their own children who will be harmed by the association with the shades thrown by brave Harry. I know what it felt like to be the relative of "such a person" - in this case, mental illness. The things they said about our family were less than nice to hear, and they spread it indefinitely. Despite people knowing that they were sick - which isn't the case with Harry, - the "what if" and the morbid curiosity still hung. It helped my parents a lot that the person in question at least loved us unconditionally. With the birth of the family members' own children, Harry naturally stopped being their first priority and the effect of his actions on them will inevitably be taken into account when opening their arms to him.

 

[Osipi]

All these talks about loving Harry unconditionally are very nice but they leave out one crucial thing... It's hard to accept back without any reserves someone who obviously doesn't give a damn about your own child and granchild's "usage" while he moans about being used in this very same manner.

Unconditional love doesn't mean one accepts and condones and overlooks words and actions by a loved one that are harmful. This is where tough love comes in. It's OK to state "I love you dearly but I do not like you very much right now and I do not like your behavior at all". Sometimes unconditional love is being absolutely honest and forthcoming with someone and telling them the things they *need* to hear and not what they *want* to hear. Its the examples that we hear so often of a parent punishing a child and stating "this is hurting me more than it is you". Trust lost is something that takes a lot of work, conversations and actual effort to even start to restore. Just accepting Harry back into the fold like the prodigal son would be more harmful than productive and is not "love".

So, what is he trying to achieve in the long run?

To be honest here, from what I'm seeing, I don't think even Harry knows at this point.

 

[Betsypaige]

One of the things that strike me as most troubling in the whole affair is Harry's constant whining about their precious privacy, their precious pure child, the prison his father and brother he's so compassionate towards are condemned to... while being all chummy with Orlando Bloom, the man with Prince George's parody. They even bonded around their precious privacy and photographers. But Harry clearly doesn't care one whit about his nephew's privacy or people exploiting George's "prison".


All these talks about loving Harry unconditionally are very nice but they leave out one crucial thing... It's hard to accept back without any reserves someone who obviously doesn't give a damn about your own child and granchild's "usage" while he moans about being used in this very same manner.


As someone who has experienced mental illness - still ongoing - in my extended family, I'll say that the person's unconditional love for us children shone through their decades of struggle. If they had perceived anything as being threatening to us, the person doing it would better watch their back. And that further endeared them to my parents, my grandparents and so on. I don't see anything like this in Harry and I don't for a moment believe it's because of his struggles. Compared to the person I'm talking about, Harry looks as put together as an actor at the Oscars. His hypocrisy and lack of care does come through. I'm fully expecting to hear it was all Charlotte's fault re: the infamous crying accident. Really, if he's so compassionate towards his father and brother who were so mean, cruel and envious to him and Meghan, what other explanation is there for his eagerness to rub shoulders with a bona fide Hollywood royalty who reaches with grubby dirty fingers into his nephew's life and confidence, other than George and perhaps Charlotte and Louis having also wronged him and his goddess?

I agree with all of this, especially the part in bold. I realize that Harry has nothing to do with that gross cartoon, but even so, his friend is taking part in mocking the BRF, and mocking children. That's reprehensible.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I've figured out my personal problem with the narrative that Henry and Meghan are trying to push, it's peppered with untruths/lies. I cannot believe any of Henry's "truth" when he's quite happy telling lies to simply push the narrative, including using his mothers terrible experiences to further his clear jealousy of the organisation he was manipulated into leaving.

Whatever else they have "in the bank", I hope we get to hear it soon and then there will be nothing left. A 1000 year old institution will outlive the gossip Henry is trying to keep alive.

 

[Betsypaige]

Unconditional love doesn't mean one accepts and condones and overlooks words and actions by a loved one that are harmful. This is where tough love comes in. It's OK to state "I love you dearly but I do not like you very much right now and I do not like your behavior at all". Sometimes unconditional love is being absolutely honest and forthcoming with someone and telling them the things they *need* to hear and not what they *want* to hear. Its the examples that we hear so often of a parent punishing a child and stating "this is hurting me more than it is you". Trust lost is something that takes a lot of work, conversations and actual effort to even start to restore. Just accepting Harry back into the fold like the prodigal son would be more harmful than productive and is not "love".



To be honest here, from what I'm seeing, I don't think even Harry knows at this point.

Exactly. I'm sure Charles would love to have Harry back in the fold because he'll always love him deeply no matter what, but that love isn't preventing him from being angry and hurt. Tough love is great, but ultimately the person it's being directed to needs to want to hear and accept it. Harry hasn't been willing.......and he'll have to be if he wants to be welcomed back - not even as a working Royal, just back in the family fold. He's going to have to hear about how much he has hurt his father, his family....

 

[BriarRose]

Actually, I think Harry wants William and Charles to profusely apologize, tell him that he was right all along, that they were terrible people, and beg for his forgiveness. And then issue a public interview saying the same to the world.

And I don't mean this sarcastically- when I was a child, I harbored similar fantasies, I'm sure.

But that's never going to happen. And it's not a mature or healthy viewpoint for Harry to have. Sadly, it will only lead to more resentment and anger.

Just before the wedding, I thought almost the same of Thomas Markle- he was angry, unwilling to admit any fault, and wanted his daughter to drop everything she was doing to publicly take his side and tell the world what a great dad and person he was. And at the time I really did wonder, based on my own mother, if early dementia was responsible for Thomas Markle not being able to understand reason and tact. But obviously, that's not the case with Harry.

 

[SplendaLover]

Thank you for sharing your insight based on your experience - I know others have as well.

Even after the Oprah interview, I was hopeful that the family relationship could be repaired. Never say never, but it is hard to see a way back to his family after this. I assume he will come back for the unveiling of the statue, but I think it will be very uncomfortable for them to spend any length of time in the UK.

I assume they may visit the Queen this summer to show how loving and supportive they are, but I don't see much interaction with the rest of the family. Even though Harry is not criticizing William, I have a hard time seeing William wanting to spend much time with Harry and Meghan.

Regarding future events, I think Harry will be treated as a minor royal or a non-royal family member at occasions like the Trooping of the Color and the Jubilee, which I don't think he will be happy about.

I just do not believe Harry cares about any of that now. He seems to have accepted his fate and is willing to live with the consequences. He has a family of his own and they are his primary focus. He knows he's not popular in Britain and he also knows how his wife was treated. There is no love lost. The RF has many members who are available to take part in those events. The Queen will be fine.

 

[Betsypaige]

For the sake of Archie and the new baby, and also the Queen, I hope that may be possible, but it's a very long way back from this. He's yelling all over international TV that his family are cold and uncaring, that they neglected him, that his father was a bad father and his grandparents were bad parents ... you might get past a stroppy teenager saying that, but a man in his 30s? And he's doing all this just after his grandfather's death.

Yes it is, and Charles knows it. It's a lot easier to overcome anger than it is pain..... Harry has wounded his father and his family deeply. I don't think we can look that far into the future re: a reconciliation because right now Harry is on the attack. Even if/when he stops, like Jobson said, how can anyone trust that Harry won't be blabbing to anyone who will listen? There is a LOT to work through....

 

[Moran]

I agree with all of this, especially the part in bold. I realize that Harry has nothing to do with that gross cartoon, but even so, his friend is taking part in mocking the BRF, and mocking children. That's reprehensible.

I'm thinking of the children in my extended family and the thought of kissing up to someone who is in any way involved in mocking them is simply unconceivable. It's sad to see that a beloved prince, a HRH of the UK is forced into name-dropping but the Prince George element is simply unforgivable, given the fact that Harry and Meghan sued someone who had pictured what, the back of their own son's head? It's different with your own child and your nephew, of course, but still, it isn't any child from the street. George isn't old enough to show his jealousy over Harry's successes. Harry just doesn't give a fig about this child of his own blood, his privacy and his confidence. That's one of the reasons I agree with Muhler that funny Harry with his heart on his sleeve likely never existed, he was just an ELF creation. It's his own nephew but kissing up to real Hollywood prince was more important. Compassionate? I don't think Harry knows what the word means.

 

[RandyDrx]

Unconditional love doesn't mean one accepts and condones and overlooks words and actions by a loved one that are harmful. This is where tough love comes in. It's OK to state "I love you dearly but I do not like you very much right now and I do not like your behavior at all". Sometimes unconditional love is being absolutely honest and forthcoming with someone and telling them the things they *need* to hear and not what they *want* to hear. Its the examples that we hear so often of a parent punishing a child and stating "this is hurting me more than it is you". Trust lost is something that takes a lot of work, conversations and actual effort to even start to restore. Just accepting Harry back into the fold like the prodigal son would be more harmful than productive and is not "love".



To be honest here, from what I'm seeing, I don't think even Harry knows at this point.

I think at this point Harry is just parroting whatever Meghan told him to say, all this buzzwords and word salad just screams "Meghan" to me.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

Actually, I think Harry wants William and Charles to profusely apologize, tell him that he was right all along, that they were terrible people, and beg for his forgiveness. And then issue a public interview saying the same to the world.

Correct me if I am wrong but I haven't seen anything that indicates that Harry is angry with William. He describes their relationship as "space" (whatever that means) and being on "different paths." I think he wants William to treat him as an equal partner but Harry's anger is directed at his father.

 

[Denville]

I just do not believe Harry cares about any of that now. He seems to have accepted his fate and is willing to live with the consequences. He has a family of his own and they are his primary focus. He knows he's not popular in Britain and he also knows how his wife was treated. There is no love lost. The RF has many members who are available to take part in those events. The Queen will be fine.

Do you really think that the queen a woman of 95, who has just lost her husband of over 70 years, is "fine" that she now has a massive distance between herself and one of her grandsons and great grandchidlren.....

 

[TLLK]

I've figured out my personal problem with the narrative that Henry and Meghan are trying to push, it's peppered with untruths/lies. I cannot believe any of Henry's "truth" when he's quite happy telling lies to simply push the narrative, including using his mothers terrible experiences to further his clear jealousy of the organisation he was manipulated into leaving.

Whatever else they have "in the bank", I hope we get to hear it soon and then there will be nothing left. A 1000 year old institution will outlive the gossip Henry is trying to keep alive.

In my honest opinion, there a number of us here who now feel the same way about their statements made in the Oprah Interview, the podcast and now the Apple TV program. It's difficult because I no longer have any confidence in what they're saying is true.

 

[Denville]

Its hard to tell whose idea all this is. I think that Meghan has come up iwth it all, with the "We were cruelly treated by the RF," and that she reckons they can use this narrative for some time, to attract public attention and presumably to make money. And I think that Harry has latent anger against his family, esp his fahter so that he's happy now to go along with it. But does he really really beleive the things he says?

 

[Moran]

Harry was angry with the public for mourning his mother because they never even met her... but sat reading comments from the same public for hours and his heart went cold each time a member of the same public said something unflattering about him or Meghan when most of the same public never met Meghan and his own meeting with the same public were so cruel, a real slavery for him. Nice.


I agree with Osipi that Harry has zero idea what he wants. And that's somehow the RF's fault.

 

[ACO]

Do you really think that the queen a woman of 95, who has just lost her husband of over 70 years, is "fine" that she now has a massive distance between herself and one of her grandsons and great grandchidlren.....

I think it is very clear that she was saddened by them walking away and how it all unfolded. She wants her family close and no one can fault that of the woman. She hasn't seen Archie since he was a few months old. He is now two. His little sister will be born in the US and who knows when they will ever see her in person. So yes I do think they are sad in that regard.

But I also think they all will continue on like they have been doing. All any of them can do.

 

[SplendaLover]

Do you really think that the queen a woman of 95, who has just lost her husband of over 70 years, is "fine" that she now has a massive distance between herself and one of her grandsons and great grandchidlren.....

I believe Harry is in contact with the Queen. I'm sure she understands his pain and accepts his new life. Harry seems to be disappointed in and distant from Charles.

 

[MichaelB]

Camilla was booed on her wedding day, Catherine was chased by paparazzi and had her phone hacked, Charles & Camilla were physically faced with protestors who threw paint at their car, Anne faced kidnapping attempts at night, The Queen and Prince Philip faced multiple assassination attempts.

We are used to it. But what you describe sounds clearly abusive to me. People should not have to suffer from this and we should not allow it.
I do not follow the BRF so I may be completely wrong here but what Harry said in the Oprah interview sounded to me like criticism not so much of his family but rather of the way the press treats them. That the media coverage does not focus on that criticism of the press but on the rift within the family comes hardly as a surprise. If I were them I´d do the same.

None of the supposedly terrible advice Harry has said Charles gave him sounds inappropriate to me. There are things about the life of a working royal that will never change, because they can’t be changed. Engagements, travel, dealing with the press, public criticism, including press coverage and public criticism which is sometimes inaccurate and unfair. So I think advice like: “this is how it’s always been - it was for your grandfather, it was for me, and it will be for you. We’ve worked hard for many years to come up with a system that minimizes the disruption to our lives - I suggest you stick with it instead of tearing up the rule book.” is actually well meant and good advice.

It probably is. I suppose that Charles is right in that this is the best the family can do under the present circumstances, that fighting the media wouldn´t benefit them and would only make it worse. But I can also see why Harry would not be willing to put up with that, fight tooth and nail against it and the bullets be damned. I understand why he would feel compelled to do that, considering what happened to his mother. But I also get that the rest of the family would feel very much offended by his behaviour. They are doing the best they can under difficult circumstances and Harry basically says: „You should have done better.“ They all are in a very tragic situation. I do not think that there is anyone to blame. They all do what they believe is right. They are unfortunately in a situation where they absolutely cannot afford to disagree on how to handle this. But they do disagree because that is what people just do when dealing with challenging situations.
I personally do not understand how anyone whose basic needs are met would think they are privileged. I have had a time in my life when I did not know how to pay my rent (I´m fine now) but under no circumstances would I want to have my life be discussed so publicly. We all have our ups and downs and everybody will have different preferences. But I do not think that any amount of money could compensate me for this loss of privacy.

 

[Denville]

I believe Harry is in contact with the Queen. I'm sure she understands his pain and accepts his new life. Harry seems to be disappointed in and distant from Charles.

I doubt that. She has no option but to accept his "new life" but she cannot be happy with his behavior, with his attacking her, Philip, Charles and the RF as a whole, nor the various things he said on Oprah, about Archie etc. And I doubt if she supports Harry's apparnet belief that he should get free security for life or that Charles should support him indefinitley....

We are used to it. But what you describe sounds clearly abusive to me. People should not have to suffer from this and we should not allow it.
Ibut under no circumstances would I want to have my life be discussed so publicly. We all have our ups and downs and everybody will have different preferences. But I do not think that any amount of money could compensate me for this loss of privacy.

Harry is the one who is creating the loss of privacy. he moved away from the UK to America... and he had enough money to lead a quiet life there.. but he chose to do Oprah and other interviews, talkng about his family, his problems, his drug abuse and drinking, his wife's miseries etc.

 

[Osipi]

The reality is that none of us know anything about how anyone in the BRF is thinking or feeling or reacting because they choose to keep these matter private. As they should.

I am enjoying this conversation though because, for one, Harry has gotten us to have conversations about mental health. Even should it be deemed by every professional in the mental health field that how Harry is presenting himself as a champion for mental health awareness is going down a totally wrong road, it has gotten all of us to speak out about what we think and how we perceive things to be and sometimes, even, relating our own mental health issues and what we've learned and gained from having them.

Anyone can stand on a platform and tell the world that this or that organization is there for those that need help and how to find them but sometimes, too, actively showing that you are there, have been there or on the verge of being there in a deep, dark place in life, people will identify with it. It's just not done though to drag other people down into a deep, dark hole with you and use them as punching bags to relieve one's guilt, anger, resentments and all those other not so happy things we need to deal with.

 

[Denville]

Th
Anyone can stand on a platform and tell the world that this or that organization is there for those that need help and how to find them but sometimes, too, actively showing that you are there, have been there or on the verge of being there in a deep, dark place in life, people will identify with it. It's just not done though to drag other people down into a deep, dark hole with you and use them as punching bags to relieve one's guilt, anger, resentments and all those other not so happy things we need to deal with.

It does not seem to me that Harry is showing any signs of being much help to anyone with mental health issues. If he is having help, its not doing him much good. He did not help his wife when she had depression. He is invading the privacy of his family while claiming that he's been so cruelly treated and his privacy was invaded.
As many have siad, no therapist would advise him to go public in the way that he has.. so either he has bad therapists or he's not listening to anyone who advises him.

 

[Heavs]

I believe Harry is in contact with the Queen. I'm sure she understands his pain and accepts his new life. Harry seems to be disappointed in and distant from Charles.

I'm sure she's very understanding that they're trying to tear down everything she had her husband have worked for for the last 73 years and seeing the rest of her family in pain over it and unable to answer back or even discuss the matter with him privately. I'm sure she was comforted that they allegedly kept in contact with her whilst they filmed a bitter interview against everything she's worked for whilst *they knew* Philip was dying.

She loves him but I doubt she's very happy with him now.

Its hard to tell whose idea all this is. I think that Meghan has come up iwth it all, with the "We were cruelly treated by the RF," and that she reckons they can use this narrative for some time, to attract public attention and presumably to make money. And I think that Harry has latent anger against his family, esp his fahter so that he's happy now to go along with it. But does he really really beleive the things he says?

Hard to tell. If he's in to hard drugs and battling an addiction he may not clearly remember events or what he was thinking/feeling anyway.

I personally would *really* love to know if he actually remembers the decade's worth of Charles/Harry bike riding photos because he mentioned it several times *after* the press published them. Or if his memory is playing tricks on him due to his anger, resentment and whatever else is going on.

He may believe everything he says in the moment but then believe the next set of completely different truths the next interview.

I think he knew the first Oprah interview held deliberate falsehoods but didn't care. And quite frankly if he truly believes that was compassionate towards his family then I really don't know what to say. It would be better if he just owned that he wanted to hurt them like a medieval prince in a brother/cousin war. Justifying it and having Oprah justifying it is cloying and false.

 

[MichaelB]

Harry is the one who is creating the loss of privacy. he moved away from the UK to America... and he had enough money to lead a quiet life there.. but he chose to do Oprah and other interviews, talkng about his family, his problems, his drug abuse and drinking, his wife's miseries etc.

Nobody in this family has privacy.

 

[Denville]

He must know varous things like Archie's security not having anything to do with his having HRH or his racial origins.. and surely he does not believe that the RF /staff told him Meghan would have to work because there was no money to keep her? If that was the case, why did she appear to be working for the RF and being kept by Charles and the Sov Grant? He must know that he and M didn't get married 3 days before the wedding. Yet he said these things or let Meg say them...

Nobody in this family has privacy.

So why add to it? He is living in LA.. He has left the RF. He he presumably has staff who have to sign NDAs as we haven't heard anything about his home life there. So why does he go on TV and talk about things that are private? Noone made him do that. He wasn't dogged by reporters asking him questions or shoving a camera in his face.

 

[Betsypaige]

I'm thinking of the children in my extended family and the thought of kissing up to someone who is in any way involved in mocking them is simply unconceivable. It's sad to see that a beloved prince, a HRH of the UK is forced into name-dropping but the Prince George element is simply unforgivable, given the fact that Harry and Meghan sued someone who had pictured what, the back of their own son's head? It's different with your own child and your nephew, of course, but still, it isn't any child from the street. George isn't old enough to show his jealousy over Harry's successes. Harry just doesn't give a fig about this child of his own blood, his privacy and his confidence. That's one of the reasons I agree with Muhler that funny Harry with his heart on his sleeve likely never existed, he was just an ELF creation. It's his own nephew but kissing up to real Hollywood prince was more important. Compassionate? I don't think Harry knows what the word means.

It wouldn’t shock me if Harry guest starred as himself on that show...

 

[Moran]

It wouldn’t shock me if Harry guest starred as himself on that show...

... And claim it a funny way to reconcile with his family.


Anyway, what surprises me is the way posters here speak of the RF's love and concern for Archie and his future sister, while ignoring the lack of love and concern for the children of various ages in the RF that Harry has demonstrated.

 

[Somebody]

Exactly. I'm sure Charles would love to have Harry back in the fold because he'll always love him deeply no matter what, but that love isn't preventing him from being angry and hurt. Tough love is great, but ultimately the person it's being directed to needs to want to hear and accept it. Harry hasn't been willing.......and he'll have to be if he wants to be welcomed back - not even as a working Royal, just back in the family fold. He's going to have to hear about how much he has hurt his father, his family....

I think it is very important to distinguish between the family fold and the firm fold. I am sure he would love Harry to return to the family fold (if H and M could be trusted) but imho it would be very unwise to allow them to return to the firm fold.

 

[Betsypaige]

Its hard to tell whose idea all this is. I think that Meghan has come up iwth it all, with the "We were cruelly treated by the RF," and that she reckons they can use this narrative for some time, to attract public attention and presumably to make money. And I think that Harry has latent anger against his family, esp his fahter so that he's happy now to go along with it. But does he really really beleive the things he says?

She has experience in cutting people off, so it probably was her idea. I said long ago that M encourages and plays up his insecurites, probably stoking the fires by telling him that he isn’t as valued and as loved as William. M actually encouraged Harry to bond with his father, and he did, but things changed when H and M ran into the Institution. No, they couldn’t be half in and half out; no, they couldn’t have their own court. There was never anything personal about it, but H and M made it personal. Harry doesn’t have facts behind him to justify his accusations against his father; that’s why he had to twist Charles’ words