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  #1281  
Old 04-22-2021, 11:44 AM
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Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
Maybe. It’s possible.

I certainly believe Harry loved his grandparents. And that’s what makes this so hard for me to comprehend. He is angry at Charles and William. Who knows who else. But- I’m not gathering he was personally angry at his grandparents. (Could be wrong there.) But he threw them under the bus. And fixed it the next day after it aired. He had a lot of time to think about what he had done after doing the interview and before it aired. Then there’s the time between it airing and him
clarifying. He was pretty slow to react and clarify IMO.

I can’t make it make sense at all.
I believe Harry loves his father and brother, but he willingly threw them - especially his father - under the red double decker bus. I think one of Charles’ infamous lines may apply to H: “whatever love means” - because I don’t know if H understands that. It’s one thing to be angry, it’s another thing to be so angry that you deliberately seek to destroy your family. No wonder C is still devastated, William still angry... I’m not sorry to say that H, IMO, has followed Meghan’s path. When she no longer has any use for or is angry at people she supposedly cares about, she’s ruthless - she cuts them out of her life without any warning. If H has followed suit, that IS all on him ..I think M has great sway over him.
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  #1282  
Old 04-22-2021, 11:47 AM
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Since Philips death there has been a number of pieces from previous events etc, and he was giving a speech at an event for a wedding anniversary. He spoke about a successful marriage and he explained it was down to tolerance and he could assure the audience that the queen had an abundance of tolerance. She has shown that with her family at different times and no doubt will continue to do so.
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  #1283  
Old 04-22-2021, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I believe Harry loves his father and brother, but he willingly threw them - especially his father - under the red double decker bus. I think one of Charles’ infamous lines may apply to H: “whatever love means” - because I don’t know if H understands that. It’s one thing to be angry, it’s another thing to be so angry that you deliberately seek to destroy your family. No wonder C is still devastated, William still angry... I’m not sorry to say that H, IMO, has followed Meghan’s path. When she no longer has any use for or is angry at people she supposedly cares about, she’s ruthless - she cuts them out of her life without any warning. If H has followed suit, that IS all on him ..I think M has great sway over him.
Unfortunately, this was also a character trait of Harry's mother quite often. People found themselves on the "outs" quite easily with her.
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  #1284  
Old 04-22-2021, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
Harry himself credits Meghan with showing him the light....that he was trapped. So, I suspect HM “credits” Meghan as well to some extent.

One of the more amazing parts was Harry stating that he’d tried to explain to Charles and William that they were trapped too, but that they didn’t get it. But....he has compassion for them. Wow. What a great way of insulting them personally and professionally AND the institution as a whole. And being condescending while he’s at it. It was truly a great mix of being extraordinarily insulting while trying to sound nice about it.

The racism comment deservedly gets a lot of attention, but this was REALLY bad. TBF- I have seen lots of reporters say how bad this is and reports indicate that C/W were deeply upset about this- very believable IMO.
Wait, he SAID that he tried to explain to them why they were trapped? Boy, talk about the height of arrogance. Harry had no right to speak for his father and brother, no right to essentially state that because he and M hated the institution and wanted out, that means C and W felt the same way. . This is one issue I have with H and M - their tendency to lecture, to think they know better. C and W live lives of duty and commitment; Harry saying they’re trapped is an outrageous insult to them and the British people. Who exactly have these two served except themselves ? Yes, they’ve done a few good things here and there, but their biggest deals have been to make themselves enough money to keep them in their multi-million dollar mansion.
  #1285  
Old 04-22-2021, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
My own take is that although William is angry with Harry, Harry doesn't seem to be angry with William. Harry describes his relationship with William as "space" and being on different paths. I could be wrong but Harry's language seems to reflect disappointment rather than anger. Obviously, Meghan doesn't like Catherine but it's not clear how she feels about William. I suspect she dislikes him but understands William is important. I feel that Harry is assuming that he and William can rebuild their relationship over time.


Hard to say, but I tend to think Harry is smart enough to know that pointedly showing his anger towards his popular brother too much over his less popular father would be a bad idea.

They were on the outs well before Harry left. Harry himself confirmed that. Probably having at least something to do with him and Meghan not getting what they wanted at the Firm.

Their HIHO plan was poorly thought out, a PR mess- and one that Harry and Meghan must have been pretty embarrassed to have to completely walk back. And they did. Stands to reason IMO he’d be unhappy with William as one of the decision makers.

And honestly that whole bit about Charles and William being “trapped” was nasty disguised as nice IMO. But- still nasty.

Harry seems to assume a lot of things. If you take him at his word he talks about the importance and desire of reconciling with Charles and William....while giving an interview that will absolutely, no doubt make things much worse, not better. He’s either incredibly dumb (which I have trouble buying) or he’s smart enough to say what he knows people want to hear.

.IOW- hard to say what Harry’s real hopes and priorities are. He obviously found throwing his entire family and their life’s work a very high priority since he actually did it. He’s paid lip service to the rest from what (very little admittedly) we know publicly.
  #1286  
Old 04-22-2021, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sionevar View Post
There is an article in the Daily Mail on this very topic today.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...ce-claims.html
Here’s is the original article the Mail refers to. I shouldn’t wonder that things are calmer, and a lot more..”productive”, lol


Quote:
As a way of supporting the Queen, the family have scheduled a meeting to sort out future business of the monarchy and design tailor made roles for each of the seven senior members of The Firm.

It will include collaboration and support for one another from the Prince of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall, Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, Princess Anne and the Earl and Countess of Wessex.

Despite the smaller team, a source said that things are "calmer" without Meghan and Harry.

A source said: “One of the main issues with Harry and Meghan when they were part of the working family was their inability to understand how things worked.

"It’s been a lot simpler without them kicking off over why they couldn’t just do what they wanted.


“Things are a lot calmer.”

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...gn=mirror_main
  #1287  
Old 04-22-2021, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
Hard to say, but I tend to think Harry is smart enough to know that pointedly showing his anger towards his popular brother too much over his less popular father would be a bad idea.

They were on the outs well before Harry left. Harry himself confirmed that. Probably having at least something to do with him and Meghan not getting what they wanted at the Firm.

Their HIHO plan was poorly thought out, a PR mess- and one that Harry and Meghan must have been pretty embarrassed to have to completely walk back. And they did. Stands to reason IMO he’d be unhappy with William as one of the decision makers.

And honestly that whole bit about Charles and William being “trapped” was nasty disguised as nice IMO. But- still nasty.

Harry seems to assume a lot of things. If you take him at his word he talks about the importance and desire of reconciling with Charles and William....while giving an interview that will absolutely, no doubt make things much worse, not better. He’s either incredibly dumb (which I have trouble buying) or he’s smart enough to say what he knows people want to hear.

.IOW- hard to say what Harry’s real hopes and priorities are. He obviously found throwing his entire family and their life’s work a very high priority since he actually did it. He’s paid lip service to the rest from what (very little admittedly) we know publicly.
Good points. You are probably correct that Harry is angry with William. My original belief was based on my perception that Harry displays completely different attitudes when speaking about William and Charles. With William it is "we're on different paths" and "I'll always be there for him." His language about Charles is very different. I think it is fair to say that Harry is more angry at Charles than he is at William.
  #1288  
Old 04-22-2021, 12:12 PM
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I am relatively new to this couple, but wonder if Harry ever spoke the truth or when the relationship to C/W broke.
Back in Germany I have watched a documentary, in the UK I think it was broadcasted for C's 70 th.
When Harry talks about his father being so happy to walk Meghan down to the altar.
can anyone else see /or saw William's reaction while Harry is talking?
William looks so uncomfortable not to say he shows strong tensions,
he kneads his hands firmly....gives a glance....
To me it looks as if possibly Harry was already lying then or not knowing Charles' true feelings about the wedding OR William was already critically involved in the couple's relationship then. Maybe something else of course, but many here to think Harry is very unrealistic and I guess Charles knows very well how to hide true emotions just like his mother does, it's part of the job isn't it, so maybe things were not that happy straight from the beginning and once the RF realised Harry would not let her go, just tried to make the best of Meghan and of course gave the two a chance against all their concerns- I mean this is how so many families work.

Excuse me, if my post is confusing and goes back too far, I simply cannot read all threads here without neglecting my family LOL may be this topic has been treated here before.
  #1289  
Old 04-22-2021, 12:19 PM
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The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 4: April 2021 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
Since Philips death there has been a number of pieces from previous events etc, and he was giving a speech at an event for a wedding anniversary. He spoke about a successful marriage and he explained it was down to tolerance and he could assure the audience that the queen had an abundance of tolerance. She has shown that with her family at different times and no doubt will continue to do so.


I love that quote from Philip. I don’t doubt it. And importantly: HE knew it and appreciated it. It wasn’t unnoticed by him. It wasn’t taken for granted.

I’m sure she will. She no doubt loves Harry and Archie and certainly would want to see them. How she feels about Meghan- hard to say. But I certainly see her being nice and cordial. For the kids if no one else. And just being smart from a professional POV too.

But- I highly doubt her interaction with Meghan is like the interview is erased, never happened. Which is something of the impression you’d get from those reports of the Sussexes interacting with HM now.

Side note: I don’t think tolerance is a quality Harry and Meghan possess much of.
  #1290  
Old 04-22-2021, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Unfortunately, this was also a character trait of Harry's mother quite often. People found themselves on the "outs" quite easily with her.


Indeed. The older Harry gets, the more it appears he seems to have picked up a lot of her best and worst character traits.
  #1291  
Old 04-22-2021, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
This has occurred to me, too. I'm sure they have thought of this. They are not stupid enough to believe the Queen will live forever.

My own take is that although William is angry with Harry, Harry doesn't seem to be angry with William. Harry describes his relationship with William as "space" and being on different paths. I could be wrong but Harry's language seems to reflect disappointment rather than anger. Obviously, Meghan doesn't like Catherine but it's not clear how she feels about William. I suspect she dislikes him but understands William is important. I feel that Harry is assuming that he and William can rebuild their relationship over time.

On the other hand, Harry is angry at Charles. Money is part of it but I think it has more to do with issues from his childhood (the divorce, Charles always working, etc.) But, parental love is different and we tend to be more forgiving of our children. I also think Charles feels guilty and likely believes that much of this is his fault. As a result, I think Harry and Meghan reasonably assume that they will be able to get back into Charles's good graces when they decide they need to. Whether that is true or not remains to be seen.

I think they will find that the biggest obstacle is money. I think they can earn a lot of money but I doubt they can earn enough to maintain their current lifestyle for the rest of their lives. I suspect they will need at least $5 million per year to maintain the mansion and for security. If that is true, they have to bring in at least $10 million every year to cover taxes and staff. I think Charles will be willing to give them some money but probably not enough.
I think H took more aim at Charles because he’s the one who controls the purse strings, he’s the one who consults with The Queen and makes “big” decisions that he sees himself being left out of. His anger with W is different.

It was always said that C had a better relationship with H than W, but I’m starting to think it’s because H never opened up and spoke about his feelings. Charles and William may have butted heads more, but at least with W, C knew where he stood. Of course W is older than Harry, but only by a few years. Ultimately he seems to have understood that his parents’ relationship was much more complicated than the one-sided affair the media made it out to be; much like C and Philip, W has learned to appreciate things about his father he didn’t before. Nothing like that has happened with Harry, I’m afraid. H seems stuck, rooted in the past, and he can’t let go.
  #1292  
Old 04-22-2021, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Unfortunately, this was also a character trait of Harry's mother quite often. People found themselves on the "outs" quite easily with her.
Is that true? Maybe it’s not a coincidence that H found someone he thinks is a lot like her. That said, from what I’ve read about Diana, as complicated as she might have been, she truly was a loving, warm and compassionate person. I don’t see Meghan like that. I think she wants to do good, but I don’t think, deep down, she really is like Diana even if H thinks she is.
  #1293  
Old 04-22-2021, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
I can’t either.

As you said- Surely nobody can be stupid enough to think that accusing your family of racism on worldwide television is going to end with them saying....no big deal. And the notion that you didn’t think most of the audience wouldn’t focus on on that is equally absurd. Harry isn’t overly academically bright. But you don’t have to be to know this. I can give him enough credit to say: he had to know. It seems to do him a disservice to assume he’s that dense. Certainly Meghan knew.

What I really get stuck on is HM and Philip. Meghan certainly knew they were going to get dragged under the bus personally when she said someone in the family said something racist. You know she did.

Harry then went along with her. He had to know it too. They let it air. HM and Philip immediately got thrown under the bus, naturally. It was everywhere. The Sussexes are on west coast time. That means they had more time than anyone in the United States to see the impact of this. (There are 4 times zones in the US.) No correction that night. Nope they waited until the next day. Harry clarifies. (Interesting how Meghan was not part of the statement. IIRC.) And they both feign shock at the reaction to the racism claim. I do not get this at all. They let it air....then clarified. What changed. Seriously. I don’t follow. I believe Harry loves/ed his grandparents. I don’t think he was personally angry at them. (How Meghan feels, I’m not going to guess.) What on earth was this?

And now of course- Meghan was very close with Philip. I believe a poster said Scobie went so far as to say Philip was the person Meghan was closest to in TRF. Ummm...okay. I don’t know what her relationship was with him, but this narrative is convenient and good PR now.

She’s talking to HM. Repeated reports on that. Implying a level of closeness IMO and that somehow the interview hasn’t impacted HM and her at all IMO. This is after throwing her and her husband, their family and their life’s work under the bus for a worldwide audience. I buy HM being nice. Close, no.

I do think Meghan and Harry were going for immediate impact. Especially in the United States. They knew the marriage and titles issue would show them to be liars eventually. They also knew far fewer people would ever know they had lied.
And yet there are still people, even on tis forum, who are buying into all this. I have yet to see their reasons why they believe this and the proof that they were not lies.
  #1294  
Old 04-22-2021, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valeas View Post
I am relatively new to this couple, but wonder if Harry ever spoke the truth or when the relationship to C/W broke.
Back in Germany I have watched a documentary, in the UK I think it was broadcasted for C's 70 th.
When Harry talks about his father being so happy to walk Meghan down to the altar.
can anyone else see /or saw William's reaction while Harry is talking?
William looks so uncomfortable not to say he shows strong tensions,
he kneads his hands firmly....gives a glance....
To me it looks as if possibly Harry was already lying then or not knowing Charles' true feelings about the wedding OR William was already critically involved in the couple's relationship then. Maybe something else of course, but many here to think Harry is very unrealistic and I guess Charles knows very well how to hide true emotions just like his mother does, it's part of the job isn't it, so maybe things were not that happy straight from the beginning and once the RF realised Harry would not let her go, just tried to make the best of Meghan and of course gave the two a chance against all their concerns- I mean this is how so many families work.

Excuse me, if my post is confusing and goes back too far, I simply cannot read all threads here without neglecting my family LOL may be this topic has been treated here before.
Hi!

I don’t think Charles was hiding his true feelings at H and M’s wedding, I think he was genuinely happy for his son and genuinely cared for M; I think he was honored to walk her down the aisle.
  #1295  
Old 04-22-2021, 12:30 PM
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[QUOTE=Denville;2393529]I doubt if she loves Meghan. She will love Harry and his kids but I would say that she probably thinks that Meghan roused Harry up to this idea of leaving the RF and so on, and that without her Harry would not have done what he did.

Harry himself admitted in the interview that he would not have left if he had not met Meghan.
  #1296  
Old 04-22-2021, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
Hard to say, but I tend to think Harry is smart enough to know that pointedly showing his anger towards his popular brother too much over his less popular father would be a bad idea.

They were on the outs well before Harry left. Harry himself confirmed that. Probably having at least something to do with him and Meghan not getting what they wanted at the Firm.

Their HIHO plan was poorly thought out, a PR mess- and one that Harry and Meghan must have been pretty embarrassed to have to completely walk back. And they did. Stands to reason IMO he’d be unhappy with William as one of the decision makers.

And honestly that whole bit about Charles and William being “trapped” was nasty disguised as nice IMO. But- still nasty.

Harry seems to assume a lot of things. If you take him at his word he talks about the importance and desire of reconciling with Charles and William....while giving an interview that will absolutely, no doubt make things much worse, not better. He’s either incredibly dumb (which I have trouble buying) or he’s smart enough to say what he knows people want to hear.

.IOW- hard to say what Harry’s real hopes and priorities are. He obviously found throwing his entire family and their life’s work a very high priority since he actually did it. He’s paid lip service to the rest from what (very little admittedly) we know publicly.
I'm one of the minority who did not think the interview was bad or that the couple "trashed the family" or "threw them under the bus". The couple simply shared their negative experiences (though it wasn't all bad) during their time as senior royals. Face to face conversations is often unproductive due to heated emotions and anger.
This interview may in fact be the only way the RF got to really hear the couple and their grievances. They were pushed around- talk to this person, that persons, speak to the Prince of Wales, write a letter...etc..etc.
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  #1297  
Old 04-22-2021, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
I'm one of the minority who did not think the interview was bad or that the couple "trashed the family" or "threw them under the bus". The couple simply shared their negative experiences (though it wasn't all bad) during their time as senior royals. Face to face conversations is often unproductive due to heated emotions and anger.
This interview may in fact be the only way the RF got to really hear the couple and their grievances. They were pushed around- talk to this person, that persons, speak to the Prince of Wales, write a letter...etc..etc.
I think that going public is a very destructive and unproductive way of discussing differences of opinion. Going public certainly didn't help heal Meghan relationship with her father. I don't think anyone on this board would welcome it if a family member took to Facebook or Twitter to resolve grievances.

Moreover, why the need to air their grievances in the first place? They had moved away and started their own lives. To me it is pretty childish to hold grudges over minor issues like who made whom cry? Any offense caused by a remark supposedly made to Harry about Archie should have been dealt with privately. If they wanted to return to part-time duties, the interview was extremely unproductive.

My experience is that people who are truly happy with their own lives tend to be more forgiving and generous than those who are unhappy. When your life is going well, you tend to focus less on the negative. This interview may have unintentionally revealed that all is not necessarily wonderful in the Sussex household.
  #1298  
Old 04-22-2021, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moran View Post
Caring for someone doesn't equal loving them. And even loving someone doesn't equal enjoying a conversation in which they pretend they never threw your entire family under the bus.

Charity begins at home and Meghan appeared in HM's home just a few years ago. We know what ensued. Honestly, enjoying any non-Archie related contact with Meghan makes HM look the puppet Harry described, only not in the evil courtiers' hands but Harry and Meghan's own. It's been barely a month since Meghan thrashed HM's entire family before millions. I doubt there's any love left here. She might care about Meghan but she surely cares about the ones Meghan branded the evil personified more. So no, to me being warm and loving doesn't mean being this amazing person who overcomes their disappointment to enjoy a conversation with their entire's family detractor.

Why should we think that HM cares about Meghan at all anyway? Not thrashing her publicly in a Meghan-like fashion doesn't mean she cares. It goes both ways. We don't know. But right now, IMO enjoying any contact non-Archie related is stretching it. HM has certainly been aware of their "brand", what they need and how looking cozy with her would just work for them. It sours the enjoyment from the contact significantly.
I agree.

I think they may have had conversations that were civil and involved Archie and that the last thing HM wants is for anything to happen to Meghan, but I don't buy for a second that there's any real closeness there.

The family knew Philip was on his death bed before the interview aired, they knew he wasn't likely to make it to his birthday and Harry and Meghan still went ahead with it. They then passed on more info they wanted out there via their friends and made what was already a very, very difficult few weeks even more difficult. Knowingly. If Harry can't see why that's a problem no one can help him. And that's before you get into the lasting consequences of the interview.

Given that they know they're leaking like sieves and might be recording conversations I doubt anything truly personal was discussed, nor do I think any of the family will have been particularly pleased with the sudden "Meghan was closest to Philip out of all of them! She sent personally selected flowers!" released right as the funeral was starting and after they'd had the chance to see tributes pouring in from all over the world.

Now they're releasing statements that Harry spent time with his grandmother (but *not* his father or brother) on HM's birthday. They aren't saying "we're going slow and building trust back up with her" they're trying to position her as their no 1 cheerleader in the family.

William/Charles = reports of reconciliation were wrong, reports of Harry writing a letter to his Dad wrong, reports of Kate playing peacemaker wrong, it will take ages to get anywhere. Harry felt ganged up on.

Queen = We've never stopped talking to her, Meghan/Archie has Zoomed with her several times, Harry has talked to her alone twice, we have no beef at all with her, she has no problem with us, she completely understand why Meghan couldn't be there even though they both wanted her to be...

They can't pretend that she's an old dear in a home and that trashing her life's work and every other person in her family doesn't affect her. Or try and co opt her in the same way they try to pretend that Diana isn't William's beloved mother as well.
  #1299  
Old 04-22-2021, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Is that true? Maybe it’s not a coincidence that H found someone he thinks is a lot like her. That said, from what I’ve read about Diana, as complicated as she might have been, she truly was a loving, warm and compassionate person. I don’t see Meghan like that. I think she wants to do good, but I don’t think, deep down, she really is like Diana even if H thinks she is.
That is a good point, I actually believe she set out to remind him of his mother.
Some of what she has said also clothes, also the very public inclusion of the Spencer family.
IMO her good works is for attention, photographs promoting some of her charities were all about her , specially posed, the charity was forgotten it was about her.
  #1300  
Old 04-22-2021, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I think that going public is a very destructive and unproductive way of discussing differences of opinion. Going public certainly didn't help heal Meghan relationship with her father. I don't think anyone on this board would welcome it if a family member took to Facebook or Twitter to resolve grievances..
Going private didn't help..they were basically ignored. That only left one option. Meghan tried to privately mend the relationship with her father as evidence by her letters, phone calls, and text messages to him. However, he admitted he wasn't trying to hear it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
Moreover, why the need to air their grievances in the first place? They had moved away and started their own lives. To me it is pretty childish to hold grudges over minor issues like who made whom cry? Any offense caused by a remark supposedly made to Harry about Archie should have been dealt with privately. If they wanted to return to part-time duties, the interview was extremely unproductive.
Many of the Sussexes grievances were not minor. A woman feeling suicidal and not being able to get the help she needs is not a minor. There was no grudge over who made who cry. The couple were simply upset over the comm dept refusing to speak out and deny the stories that were being aloud to continue in the media. If they had simply said thatcthe story was not true or that it did not happen. Many things would have been different. But it was allowed for the public to think that big bad Meghan bullied a much loved member of the royal family and made her cry.
There was nothing to lose by the time the interview was aired it had already been long decided that they were not coming back to the royal family.

Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
My experience is that people who are truly happy with their own lives tend to be more forgiving and generous than those who are unhappy. When your life is going well, you tend to focus less on the negative. This interview may have unintentionally revealed that all is not necessarily wonderful in the Sussex
Though one never knows what goes on behind people's closed doors I would venture to say just the opposite. The are happier and appear to be as they say at peace.

Just because you speak about a negative past experience doesn't mean that your current life is in shambles.
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The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 3: March - April 2021 Jacknch Current Events Archive 2203 04-06-2021 12:08 PM




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