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  #981  
Old 04-20-2021, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I’m sorry, but...no. Much as I deplore what Harry and Meghan have done, they are not the Windsors. Edward appeared to be a Nazi sympathizer (even if maybe he wasn’t, his appearance with Hitler was ugly), and he was a giant pain in the behind to his brother. In fact, Edward was jealous if his brother and tried to run a shadow kingship while in exile.

Charles is hurting and angry from what Harry did, but he loves his son deeply - why would you want him to cut H off ? He’d destroy his relationship with H and his grandchildren forever. William loves his brother, angry as he is. A nuclear option is no option.
William may love his brother but he was clearly so angry with him last year that he couldn't put on a show in public.. and at that time Harry had not done the interview where he told the world that his family were heartless and racist. SO I doubt if he's in a better frame of mind towards his brother right now. Charles is his fahter, he will alwasy care for H and will probalby always hold a hand out ot him... but even he was driven last year to stop taking his sons' phone calls.
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  #982  
Old 04-20-2021, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I’m sorry, but...no. Much as I deplore what Harry and Meghan have done, they are not the Windsors. Edward appeared to be a Nazi sympathizer (even if maybe he wasn’t, his appearance with Hitler was ugly), and he was a giant pain in the behind to his brother. In fact, Edward was jealous if his brother and tried to run a shadow kingship while in exile.

Charles is hurting and angry from what Harry did, but he loves his son deeply - why would you want him to cut H off ? He’d destroy his relationship with H and his grandchildren forever. William loves his brother, angry as he is. A nuclear option is no option.
I don't see it happening either. They are all hurt, frustrated, angry, etc but I also don't see it going that far. Again we don't know these people and what has happened behind the scenes. We just guess based on what they allow us to see.

I just hope that Harry, Charles and William were able to have a real conversation about whatever happened. It wouldn't be in depth as that is not the time nor place for it, but a start to understanding that on both sides hurt was had.

They just lost their father and grandfather. They are about to welcome a new member of their family in a few weeks. And soon birthdays and anniversaries will be celebrated. The brothers will also be honoring their mother.

These next few months really could be used as a stepping stone to healing.
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  #983  
Old 04-20-2021, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
William may love his brother but he was clearly so angry with him last year that he couldn't put on a show in public.. and at that time Harry had not done the interview where he told the world that his family were heartless and racist. SO I doubt if he's in a better frame of mind towards his brother right now. Charles is his fahter, he will alwasy care for H and will probalby always hold a hand out ot him... but even he was driven last year to stop taking his sons' phone calls.
This.
Love has nothing to do with the desire not to be trodden upon. Unless Harry and Meghan show some understanding that they might have *gasp* made a mistake, I don't see Charles making it all about Harry's feelings. He has feelings too, William and Kate whom Meghan thrashed with Harry's approval do as well, as does the UK which Prince Henry, the Duke of Sussex, happily branded as a racist country before millions of audience.



Any coddling of poor Harry and his hurt feelings right now will be twisted by Harry, Meghan and their talkative friends as "See? They are trying to make up because it was all true!"
  #984  
Old 04-20-2021, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
William may love his brother but he was clearly so angry with him last year that he couldn't put on a show in public.. and at that time Harry had not done the interview where he told the world that his family were heartless and racist. SO I doubt if he's in a better frame of mind towards his brother right now. Charles is his fahter, he will alwasy care for H and will probalby always hold a hand out ot him... but even he was driven last year to stop taking his sons' phone calls.
Just because people are angry doesn’t mean they want to cut them off permanently. People need room to be allowed to be hurt, and angry....and anything else they feel.

I’m not suggesting that either William or Charles forgive and forget, but they love and miss their brother and son, so of course taking even baby steps towards healing wounds is what they’d want. They just lost someone they loved deeply; death is final. Imagine having to live forever with regrets if something happened?
  #985  
Old 04-20-2021, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
I don't see it happening either. They are all hurt, frustrated, angry, etc but I also don't see it going that far. Again we don't know these people and what has happened behind the scenes. We just guess based on what they allow us to see.

I just hope that Harry, Charles and William were able to have a real conversation about whatever happened. It wouldn't be in depth as that is not the time nor place for it, but a start to understanding that on both sides hurt was had.

They just lost their father and grandfather. They are about to welcome a new member of their family in a few weeks. And soon birthdays and anniversaries will be celebrated. The brothers will also be honoring their mother.

These next few months really could be used as a stepping stone to healing.
I agree completely. It’s easy for any of us to say that C and W should cut their son and brother off, but it’s not our family - I could never suggest that. I actually think Harry being in America is a good thing in the sense that, when he returns to the States, it can be with hopeful feelings...and they all can take a deep breath, a pause in a way. They don’t have to hurry up and heal now, they just need to remember that they love each other. Charles’ relationship with his father is a perfect example of how relationships can improve, can heal. Now his father has died...and from all accounts, nothing was left unsaid. I can’t think of anything worse than to lose someone and regretting things left unsaid; it would torture me for the rest of my life.
  #986  
Old 04-20-2021, 09:13 AM
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He needs to stay. His gran does not have all that many more birthday ahead and I think will want all her family with her as much as possible not to mention the spending time with his brother and the children.His wife is neither very elderly or having a terribly hard pregnancy that we know of or in danger of going into to imminent labor. I am sure they are FaceTiming anyway.
  #987  
Old 04-20-2021, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Moran View Post
This.
Love has nothing to do with the desire not to be trodden upon. Unless Harry and Meghan show some understanding that they might have *gasp* made a mistake, I don't see Charles making it all about Harry's feelings. He has feelings too, William and Kate whom Meghan thrashed with Harry's approval do as well, as does the UK which Prince Henry, the Duke of Sussex, happily branded as a racist country before millions of audience.



Any coddling of poor Harry and his hurt feelings right now will be twisted by Harry, Meghan and their talkative friends as "See? They are trying to make up because it was all true!"
Im inclined to agree.. I think that Harry showed that underneath his public image he's a man with real anger esp towards his father and to the rest of the RF.. and if he was in that frame of mind a month ago, I doubt if it has changed much. He knew that a lot of what Meg said was not true but he went along iwht it and said things himself...
He's said that he feels William and Charles are trapped in royal life.. so why would he expect them to make concessions towards him? I think that if they DO try to be nice to him in his mood at present (which may have been his mood for a long time now) he will interpret it as them conceding that all the things he said about them were true.. and that they are just trying to make up for their past behaviour. And what exactly does he need from them? He's now got his deal, he can earn his own living. He is the US where he is presumably happy with Meghan.. and he'll get on with his life and they will get on with theirs.
  #988  
Old 04-20-2021, 09:18 AM
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I believe that mistakes have been made on both sides and hope that talking and time will heal a lot of the pain. Harry is still at Frogmore Cottage isn’t he? I haven’t heard he’s flown back to the US or anything more recent than the Evening Standard report.
  #989  
Old 04-20-2021, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I’m sorry, but...no. Much as I deplore what Harry and Meghan have done, they are not the Windsors. Edward appeared to be a Nazi sympathizer (even if maybe he wasn’t, his appearance with Hitler was ugly), and he was a giant pain in the behind to his brother. In fact, Edward was jealous if his brother and tried to run a shadow kingship while in exile.

Charles is hurting and angry from what Harry did, but he loves his son deeply - why would you want him to cut H off ? He’d destroy his relationship with H and his grandchildren forever. William loves his brother, angry as he is. A nuclear option is no option.
While I agree that the Windsors did something more detrimental to the British monarchy (abdication of a king), the things you mention do show similarities. I am sure Queen Mary also loved her son deeply - but that did prevent him from taking actions she must have despised; and must have changed their relationship although her love for him would not have depended on it.

I also think that his brothers in their own way still loved him even though they had changed their lives (especially his second brother's life) enormously. Another parallel, because Harry's actions also have a profound impact on William's reign.

Harry and Meghan also set up some kind of rival court which was most visible when they had a photographer take pictures for Remembrance Sunday.
  #990  
Old 04-20-2021, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Im inclined to agree.. I think that Harry showed that underneath his public image he's a man with real anger esp towards his father and to the rest of the RF.. and if he was in that frame of mind a month ago, I doubt if it has changed much. He knew that a lot of what Meg said was not true but he went along iwht it and said things himself...
He's said that he feels William and Charles are trapped in royal life.. so why would he expect them to make concessions towards him? I think that if they DO try to be nice to him in his mood at present (which may have been his mood for a long time now) he will interpret it as them conceding that all the things he said about them were true.. and that they are just trying to make up for their past behaviour. And what exactly does he need from them? He's now got his deal, he can earn his own living. He is the US where he is presumably happy with Meghan.. and he'll get on with his life and they will get on with theirs.
He was in that frame of mind as early as at the time he contributed to Finding Freedom. One of the most disturbing things he did - IMO, and I'm not expecting anyone to agree - was announcing to the world that he and Meghan were so superior parents to William and Catherine because they didn't want a nanny which his brother's family utilized. We all know the perception of RFs of old as being unable to tell one of their children apart from another. To me, this was one of the personal lowest blows Harry (not Meghan, this is on Harry) could have landed. It became worse in the interview when he sang paeans to the chance of riding bikes with Archie and saying that he didn't have those with Charles. It all adds up.


If my brother had authorized a book heavily hinting that with his vast experience of a father-to-be of one he was already such a better, more involved parent than me, I'd find it hard to make any steps towards reconciliation. That's severely personal. And it took place before the interview which they were careful to code as mainly aimed towards the Windsors as a Firm and not a family.
  #991  
Old 04-20-2021, 09:36 AM
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Deaths and births changes things. Charles had tense relationships with his own father for many years. He also apparently didn't really get on well with his own sons for quite some time. Things change with time and circumstances.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that things will magically get better. Of course not. There is real hurt on all sides and that needs to be addressed. They ALL have to admit they made mistakes. They have to want to work to reach a place of forgiveness. That doesn't mean everything is okay. Just means you are trying.

But maybe they will be in denial and think they are perfect and did nothing wrong. Maybe they don't care to rebuild relationships. Maybe they don't want to know Archie and his little sister and there don't care if they ever come to the UK. Maybe Harry wants to wipe his hands completely of all things the UK and his family. All this is possible too.
  #992  
Old 04-20-2021, 09:38 AM
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Oh that's mild IMO... what clearly "GOT" William was the accusation of racism. You could see that when someone called to him "are you a racist family"? I think that the way Harry announced it, first throwing it out that ANYONe in the family could have said it,, and then exonerating the queen and Phil.. that made it seem like it was more likely to be Wil or Charles.
  #993  
Old 04-20-2021, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
I believe that mistakes have been made on both sides and hope that talking and time will heal a lot of the pain. Harry is still at Frogmore Cottage isn’t he? I haven’t heard he’s flown back to the US or anything more recent than the Evening Standard report.
I think he is still there. ES report was posted this morning (at least here in US), and I haven’t seen any articles claiming he’s left for home
  #994  
Old 04-20-2021, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Im inclined to agree.. I think that Harry showed that underneath his public image he's a man with real anger esp towards his father and to the rest of the RF.. and if he was in that frame of mind a month ago, I doubt if it has changed much. He knew that a lot of what Meg said was not true but he went along iwht it and said things himself...
He's said that he feels William and Charles are trapped in royal life.. so why would he expect them to make concessions towards him? I think that if they DO try to be nice to him in his mood at present (which may have been his mood for a long time now) he will interpret it as them conceding that all the things he said about them were true.. and that they are just trying to make up for their past behaviour. And what exactly does he need from them? He's now got his deal, he can earn his own living. He is the US where he is presumably happy with Meghan.. and he'll get on with his life and they will get on with theirs.
I used to think that the family could heal in time but I am losing hope and think that the royal family is in a no win situation. The bolded section was also true last month when Harry and Meghan felt compelled to publicly air their mostly petty grievances and afterwards sent friends out to threaten more damaging disclosures to come. Perhaps in time Harry and Meghan will come to understand how damaging and unnecessary their actions were but I'm afraid that any such understanding won't last very long.

Harry and Meghan have everything they claim they want except a public apology from their groveling family - and that is not going to happen. There will always disagreements and life is not fair - especially in a monarchy. There is nothing the royal family can do to prevent another blow up. If they cut Harry and Meghan off completely, Harry and Meghan can disclose their version of their past experience with the family for years. If Harry and Meghan are let back in, things can (and will) fall apart again at any time.

The only thing the royal family can do is to continue to love them and keep the door open without letting them completely in. Even so, the family has to be prepared for future interviews when Harry and Meghan feel slighted. With respect to the public, the family can only hope that future publicity will backfire and the majority of the British people will continue to support them. As a family, I think they just have to accept that Harry and Meghan will never be satisfied and that the family is not responsible for Harry and Meghan's happiness.
  #995  
Old 04-20-2021, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
While I agree that the Windsors did something more detrimental to the British monarchy (abdication of a king), the things you mention do show similarities. I am sure Queen Mary also loved her son deeply - but that did prevent him from taking actions she must have despised; and must have changed their relationship although her love for him would not have depended on it.

I also think that his brothers in their own way still loved him even though they had changed their lives (especially his second brother's life) enormously. Another parallel, because Harry's actions also have a profound impact on William's reign.

Harry and Meghan also set up some kind of rival court which was most visible when they had a photographer take pictures for Remembrance Sunday.
I’m not into further comparisons with the Windsors as I think it’s moot and has nothing to do with this. I still disagree, though, that the situations are alike.

I just can not support Charles cutting off his own son..or vice versa. I can’t support William deciding never to speak to his brother again, or vice versa. Let them be angry and hurt, all of them, but that’s different than burning bridges permanently.

I’m encouraged by the talks. It’s a start, that’s a good thing. Now we’ll see what happens.
  #996  
Old 04-20-2021, 10:01 AM
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They are not going to cut them off permanently but I think that they will never trust them very far again and for self protection, will limit their interactions with them to very general talk...
  #997  
Old 04-20-2021, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Might I point out that this is the Sussex Family News and Events thread and that your chilly missive belongs on a BRF thread where you can applaud the fracturing of a formerly close family and extended family with like minded members.
Honestly, it's a Harry and Meghan News and Events Thread but that doesn't mean that it's only a Pro-Harry and Meghan Thread. It exists for discussion of all things Harry and Meghan and Co., not only for fawning praise and adulation. Harry and Meghan have absolutely played their part in the fracturing of this family and to think otherwise is, at best, naive. They're not a totally blameless and innocent party here.

In other news, I can't image for one moment that the BRF will entirely cut Harry out of their lives. It can and does happen in some families and oftentimes for good reason. I have some deeply personal experience in this area and can state with absolute certainty that it rarely happens without a lot of deep thought, reflection, and the feeling that you simply have no other choice. Most people who feel the need to entirely remove a family member from their lives do so with regret and with the feeling that they've done absolutely everything they can do and that there's simply no other way and they know exactly what they're losing, giving up, and risking.

I generally find that it's best not to speculate too deeply on marriages that you are not a party to but, that said, marriages end all the time for any number of reasons. Maybe Harry and Meghan will be blissfully happy and remain married for the rest of their lives. Maybe they won't. Maybe Meghan will live to a ripe old age and pass away peacefully in her bed surrounded by her children and grandchildren. But maybe she won't. Accidents and illnesses happen every day. The BRF is nothing if not pragmatic and prepared with game-plans for every considerable circumstance, no matter how awful and unpleasant those might be. I'm 100% sure that they won't completely cut Harry out of their lives, no matter how they may feel about Meghan, because they love him and they love his children and they know that even if he chooses to distance himself from them, should his marriage ever end or anything should ever happen to Meghan, he'll need them. And they'll want him to know that they're there for him and for his children if the need should ever arise.

I think we forget sometimes that while this is a very public family that we all have an interest in, they are still a very real family with all that that implies and entails. Cutting a family member completely out of your life is an incredibly difficult decision and one that, even if made for the best of reasons, has painful consequences and will never be "the easy way out." Short of something drastic and almost inconceivable coming to light I really can't imagine the BRF ever completely cutting Harry and his children out of their lives or their "family fold." And for the record, trusting them and sharing information with them is an entirely different kettle of fish. I think that ship has sailed. I don't foresee there ever really being deep trust there ever again and I certainly don't think they'll ever trust Harry with sensitive information. I think at this point they're weighing anything they say to him on the scale of whether or not they're okay with it becoming public knowledge. But that's entirely different that removing he and the children from their lives completely.
  #998  
Old 04-20-2021, 10:23 AM
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They didn't cut the Windsors out completely even though it was a different time and there was much more disapproval of what they had done. But they were never CLOSE to the family again, and Wallis was just barely considered persona grata. But they didn't want very public feuding so Edward was invited to some events and the queen went to see him when he was dyeing. So theyre not going to savagely refuse to acknowledge Harry and meghan.. but they will IMO be very cautious - polite in public, polite but cautious in private.
  #999  
Old 04-20-2021, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I’m not into further comparisons with the Windsors as I think it’s moot and has nothing to do with this. I still disagree, though, that the situations are alike.

I just can not support Charles cutting off his own son..or vice versa. I can’t support William deciding never to speak to his brother again, or vice versa. Let them be angry and hurt, all of them, but that’s different than burning bridges permanently.

I’m encouraged by the talks. It’s a start, that’s a good thing. Now we’ll see what happens.
While I'm sure we all want both sides to made up, I don't think it's quite feasible (at least right now). Even if they did forgive each other and H&M got a second chance, what would happen if similar situations arise in the future? What if H&M felt slighted again and decided to give another interview like the last time? What if H&M said other lies on the interview? They already lied about trivial things that can be easily disproven before, what if they lie again and this time it's about something that can't be proven? Should they be forgiven again? How many times should they be forgiven and given second chances? I know they are a family, but even families have their limit.
  #1000  
Old 04-20-2021, 10:30 AM
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Harry and Meghan didn't commit a mass murder or something. There won't be any cutting off. And even after a mass murder, families usually don't just cut ties. But I can't see any trust on either side for a long time... and I can't see any steps made by the RF for a longer time yet. It would be equal to acknowledging the truth in the accusations. It's either Harry making the first step publicly or a long wait until this, too, blows over. Publicly. We don't need to know what happens privately. But I doubt that there is this much of a difference. If one can't talk to Harry out of fear that Gayle King would end up announcing the result on TV, that's basically erasing any privacy aspect. And even if the letter story is true and it was leaked by a source close to Harry, that's no guarantee that the moment he feels slighted, he won't release another story about his valiant attempts at reconciliation and his family's cruel indifference.
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