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  #961  
Old 04-19-2021, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ladongas View Post
So, a source close to the couple could just be the florists? That seems much more likely than Meghan (or Harry) releasing the information. And certainly the close description of the flowers (and their meanings) would more easily come from the professionals, rather than Meghan carefully describing it all to Scobie.
The florist would have only been in charge of the wreath. They wouldn't have known about the details of the handwritten note or Meghan's skill with calligraphy, and probably wouldn't have known that it was to be accompanied by a note at all, since they'd have had nothing to do with the writing of said note. Even if they knew all that, they'd have had no reason to emphasize it in their press release. And I can't imagine a florist with high-profile clients issuing that sort of release without an ok from the client, because no celebrity who didn't want the media told every time he bought flowers for his girlfriend would ever use them again.

On a separate topic, regarding William and Charles meeting Harry together so words aren't misconstrued, that seems very naive of them if true. The presence of an extra person isn't going to stop anyone from misunderstanding anyone else. If Harry decided to misrepresent what happened, those who would believe him of Charles would also believe him over Charles and William put together.

If the letter thing is true, it's ironic that Harry still has enough trust in his relatives' discretion and decency to send them a personal letter, knowing that even if they were still so angry at him that they tore it up, they'd never share it with the media. I doubt anyone feels that way about him.
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  #962  
Old 04-19-2021, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by UglyAmerican View Post
If the letter thing is true, it's ironic that Harry still has enough trust in his relatives' discretion and decency to send them a personal letter, knowing that even if they were still so angry at him that they tore it up, they'd never share it with the media. I doubt anyone feels that way about him.
If the letter thing is true, I can bet my last Oreo that there remains a hand written copy of the original stored away in a safe somewhere. Never know when they may need it for legal purposes. (Sorry. Couldn't resist this)

I do believe that the British relatives are not about to play silly reindeer games with Harry. What I sincerely believe will happen is that they'll take a page out of Philip's book and just "get on with it" as far as their everyday working and private lives. They'll have accepted Harry's choices and realize the repercussions that follow belong to him. It's also possible that meeting with his father and his brother, the gist of it all was "you've made your bed and now it's yours to sleep in". Hitting cold hard truths on the head and driving them home to him. "We love you but we do not accept your choices or your actions". Tough love. Sometimes that's exactly what a person needs.
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  #963  
Old 04-19-2021, 09:47 PM
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Frankly, I think Harry and Meghan need to prove that they are trustworthy. Nothing that the "palace sources" have said about whatever talks happened between Charles, William, Kate and Harry is enlightening to any of us in this thread or any other royal watchers. It echoes pretty much everything that has been stated off-record in the last month. So, the question is, what does Harry convey to Meghan about the substance of the conversations and what is leaked from their sources? If that is misconstrued or misrepresented in any way, well... We all know that William used to test the loyalty of his friends. Right now, I'd say Harry and Meghan are being tested. Let's see how this plays out once Harry returns to Montecito.
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  #964  
Old 04-19-2021, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
If the letter thing is true, I can bet my last Oreo that there remains a hand written copy of the original stored away in a safe somewhere. Never know when they may need it for legal purposes. (Sorry. Couldn't resist this)

I do believe that the British relatives are not about to play silly reindeer games with Harry. What I sincerely believe will happen is that they'll take a page out of Philip's book and just "get on with it" as far as their everyday working and private lives. They'll have accepted Harry's choices and realize the repercussions that follow belong to him. It's also possible that meeting with his father and his brother, the gist of it all was "you've made your bed and now it's yours to sleep in". Hitting cold hard truths on the head and driving them home to him. "We love you but we do not accept your choices or your actions". Tough love. Sometimes that's exactly what a person needs.
I donít see any issue with Charles and William wanting to meet with Harry alone. For one thing, those talks should always be private, but more to the point in this case, I think the idea was that they needed to meet face to face, period. They also needed to be alone so they could all feel free to say what they needed to. If any one of them needed clarification, they could get it. Thatís what I think this was about.

I agree that, as far as C/W are concerned, Harry has chosen his life path, and they accept that; itís different than their own. I do believe they were honest with H about why they were so hurt and angry - and Iím sure H did the same. Itís a start. I imagine that Charles might have explained to H that his choices re: interview have ramifications...(like if his extended family is upset with him)...but I donít believe he would have ever left the talks with harshness ringing in his sonís ear. Most likely he would have said that it will likely take awhile for trust to be regained and wounds to heal, but that he and William dearly love him. That, to me, is what really needs to be expressed, because I think that might have gotten lost in all the pain.
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  #965  
Old 04-20-2021, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
I have learned more from all these royal sources than I ever learned from Gayle's comment about a conversation being "unproductive." My goodness.

They should worry less about her and start plugging up their own leaks. At least she was brave enough to say it with her chest and not hide.

Anyways the press seems to think Meghan's due date is in June. Maybe Harry told his family and that made its way to the media via sources. So if true, depending on when baby girl is born, we very well could see them all in the UK in the summer.

Harry would likely want to return for the statue reveal if it is not postponed.
Agreed. I'm astounded by the leaks and the level of details that is coming. Gayle King's blanket statement is nothing compared to what is being revealed in the reported walk with Charles, talks with William, and this now infamous letter.

William and Charles need to look into who is revealing such information and is hiding behind the cloak of "palace insiders" and "royal sources ".
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  #966  
Old 04-20-2021, 12:35 AM
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I think the BRF should just completely cut off H&M, rather than walking on eggshells around them. They did it to E&W, they certainly can do it to H&M.
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  #967  
Old 04-20-2021, 01:32 AM
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I'm missing something again. Why are people assuming the leaks about Harry's thoughts, actions, correspondence, and conversations aren't coming from Harry or Harry's side? I suppose Charles or one of his aides could have told the media about the letter or the fact that they all supposedly talked for two hours, but that's not the only possible explanation.
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  #968  
Old 04-20-2021, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
I have learned more from all these royal sources than I ever learned from Gayle's comment about a conversation being "unproductive." My goodness.

They should worry less about her and start plugging up their own leaks. At least she was brave enough to say it with her chest and not hide.
I very much agree. And that's what always troubles me with people raging against Scobie, King and H&M's friends. I find Omid Scobie as annoying as the next girl, but I also think it's mind-numbingly naive to pretend the BRF and/or the people around them don't also leak information. It's a super common way to turn the narrative in your own favour and it's pretty much been modus operandi in the BRF since the War of the Waleses, hasn't it?

The fact that the Sussex sources are named makes them an easier target for detractors but I see no difference whatsoever between them and all the "courtiers" and "royal sources" who also routinely leak information to the press. Well, only that at least with Scobie and King's blabbering there's a sort of transparency in the sense that we all know who they're "talking for" and trying to push the narrative in favour of
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  #969  
Old 04-20-2021, 02:32 AM
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I loath the double standard. The Palace is still leaking like a sieve and last week "a trusted aide" felt the need to clarify precisely why William and Harry wouldn't be walking together - it was HM's decision anything further was unnecessary. Reputable news outlets reported that, yet it was a nothing burger, they hadn't walked together before and I am sure HM made that decision too.

They also reported that HM and Andrew had words about him not being able to wear the uniform of an Admiral since he chose to hold back the announcement of his promotion himself. It does not matter if it's true or untrue, an inside source considered "reputable" leaked that information and, since we didn't know about the promotion it should have stayed that way and we would have never have known any different. Oh and then, of course, the Queen didn't want to embarrass Harry since he would be the only one not in in uniform so nobody got to wear one.

Personally, I don't believe either story as Harry was made humiliatingly aware that he had lost his military patronages at the beginning g of this year. Wearing civvies was his only option. When Andrew was promoted to Vice admiral he was the one that asked for the news to out be made public until he had a chance to "Clear his name". Both men dearly loved their father and grandfather and whatever else people may accuse them of, causing their mother and grandmother further distress and pain while facing the huge hurdle of a public Ceremonial Funeral just doesn't ring true on any level.

The nauseating idea of a Charles and William planning a redux "The Way Forward" part 2 right now would mean that they both have ice water in their veins when both were visibly distressed at the funeral. It just doesn't make sense anymore than the claim in the DM that the Duchess of York lost had a miscarriage and lost her first child that was a Male and would have been King instead of Elizabeth.

At that time, in those circumstances, such a topic would never be shared with anyone outside of the very immediate family, namely the Duchess, her husband, the royal doctor and perhaps the King and Queen.

What both Charles and William need to do is clean house and institute a professional formal inquiry into each and every leak. Had it not been for the so called true stories of the media, perhaps the Sussex debacle would never have happened. Many have said the "Meghan made Catherine cry was a minor event and in itself it was, but the 6 month media avalanche of negative nasty press that resulted from it was mean, nasty and cruel.
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  #970  
Old 04-20-2021, 05:51 AM
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I don't care really what was discussed between Charles and his two sons. At the end of the day H&M should not have given the interview in the first place no matter how they felt. It is never a good thing to hang out your dirty laundry in public and if not now but in the coming months perhaps years this will come back to haunt H&M. They are now parents too and they certainly do not know what lies at their door when their children get married. Will they appreciate it if Archie and his sister-to-be turn the table on them? I don't think Harry for a moment thought he would have to face his family so soon after the interview. Hopefully that would be the last time the two of them have an interview of such a nature and the family can well and truly heal. Both Diana and Charles suffered after their respective interviews to a certain degree and this should have been a lesson/eye opener for H&M.

All of the above are just my opinions.
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  #971  
Old 04-20-2021, 05:52 AM
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Does anyone feel peace now? I honestly feel the outdated BRF that feels more like itself now with little Harry and no Meghan. Some leaks, less drama, future events, Camridges' kids. I wish it stayed that way. Especially since someone decided that Meghan - an intelligent B/Z actress Californian-Tigi-like is a revolutionary genius which I saw nothing of. But that's another topic.
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  #972  
Old 04-20-2021, 06:24 AM
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I think its a pity that Philip's funeral has been somewhat overshadowed by the whole drama.. and that would not have happened if Meghan and H had not done their interview. but it was bound to happen that Harry would have to come back for the funeral, and that was going to lead to stories about "how would he get on with his family" and "would they talk to him about what had just happened" and so on...
H and Meghan must have know that Philip was very ill in March, and that he hadn't got long to go, so why do their interview then? (Of course they shouldn't have done it at all but to do it then with their grandmother's husband almost on his deathbed....)
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  #973  
Old 04-20-2021, 06:26 AM
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Might I point out that this is the Sussex Family News and Events thread and that your chilly missive belongs on a BRF thread where you can applaud the fracturing of a formerly close family and extended family with like minded members.

IMHO being happy at someone, anyone's elses pain is cold and wanting to celebrate the end of what was once a happy and generally joyful family shows a total lack of empathy.

It does not matter who was right and who was wrong, IMO they can all take their own share of the blame. Is The Queen not hurting, is Charles not wounded, William unhappy? I would be very sure their mother and grandmother would love to see her family in united in harmony once again because when all is said and done we are talking about real, live human beings who feel emotions and hurt just like everyone else.
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  #974  
Old 04-20-2021, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
I loath the double standard. The Palace is still leaking like a sieve and last week "a trusted aide" felt the need to clarify precisely why William and Harry wouldn't be walking together - it was HM's decision was unnecessary. Reputable news outlets reported that, yet it was a nothing burger, they hadn't walked together before and I am sure HM made that decision too.

They also reported that HM and Andrew had words about him not being able to wear the uniform of an Admiral since he chose to hold back the announcement of his promotion himself. It does not matter if it's true or untrue, an inside source considered "reputable" leaked that information and, since we didn't know about the promotion it should have stayed that way and we would have never have known any different. Oh and then, of course, the Queen didn't want to embarrass Harry since he would be the only one not in in uniform so nobody got to wear one.

Personally, I don't believe either story as Harry was made humiliatingly aware that he had lost his military patronages at the beginning g of this year. Wearing civvies was his only option. When Andrew was promoted to Vice admiral he was the one that asked for the news to out be made public until he had a chance to "Clear his name". Both men dearly loved their father and grandfather and whatever else people may accuse them of, causing their mother and grandmother further distress and pain while facing the huge hurdle of a public Ceremonial Funeral just doesn't ring true on any level.

The nauseating idea of a Charles and William planning a redux "The Way Forward" part 2 right now would mean that have ice water in their veins when both were visibly distressed at the funeral. It just doesn't make sense anymore than the claim in the DM that the Duchess of York lost had a miscarriage and lost her first child that was a Male and would have been King instead of Elizabeth.

At that time, in those circumstances, such a topic would never be shared with anyone outside of the very immediate family, namely the Duchess, her husband, the royal doctor and perhaps the King and Queen.

What both Charles and William need to do is clean house and institute a professional formal inquiry into each and every leak. Had it not been for the so called true stories of the media, perhaps the Sussex debacle would never have happened. Many have said the "Meghan made Catherine cry was a minor event and in itself it was, but the 6 month media avalanche of negative nasty press that resulted from it was mean, nasty and cruel.
I'm sorry but thinking that the RF can stop 'leaks' is completely ludicrous and utterly unrealistic. How do they do it? How would this 'professional formal inquiry' figure out which of the staff members (of which there are hundreds across the households) are responsible for the 'leaks'? Should they all be hooked up to lie detector tests? Should they be put under interrogation? Or should the RF simply do a 'night of the long knives' and purge them all, the innocent included? The scandal which would follow, not to mention the employment tribunals and the inevitable incredibly costly compensation would make the Sussex drama look like child's play in comparison.

People who work for the royals have always and will always speak to journalists off the record. Some people who work in politics, business, entertainment, sport etc. do as well. Without leaks and insiders speaking to journalists off the record we wouldn't have a free press holding the powerful to account that would be worth the name. These off the record leaks to reputable journalists appear to be the only way the victims of Meghan's bullying feel able to set the record straight and affect change in how such things are handled internally.

The RF have had to come to painfully accept that there's likely almost nothing they can do about it apart from try to keep their most personal information to family or people they really, really trust. Even then it doesn't always work.

Harry and Meghan clearly couldn't accept that and Meghan didn't have the mental resilience to get through it. There's no shame in that. But equally, you cannot hold the BRF responsible for being unable to prevent leaks which are inevitable no matter what they do.

What Charles and William have never done, however, is massively invade Harry and Meghan's privacy by giving on the record TV interviews to the most famous interviewer in the world for hundreds of millions of people to see. Utterly inexcusable.
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  #975  
Old 04-20-2021, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by UglyAmerican View Post
If the letter thing is true, it's ironic that Harry still has enough trust in his relatives' discretion and decency to send them a personal letter, knowing that even if they were still so angry at him that they tore it up, they'd never share it with the media. I doubt anyone feels that way about him.
It was settled in the recent court case won by the Duchess of Sussex that a recipient sharing a personal letter with the media is (with certain exceptions) illegal in the United Kingdom, but legal in the United States.

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2021/273.html
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  #976  
Old 04-20-2021, 07:01 AM
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The Palace has always given "unofficially official" quotes about various goings on to royal reporters, that's nothing new.

Other staff have always leaked like sieves about various things that the family certainly wish they wouldn't. That's nothing new and is difficult to stop.

But no member of the family has called up Camilla Tominey, Rebecca English, Victoria Arbiter, Richard Kay, Roya Nikkah etc and allowed them to say directly "I spoke to them yester the conversation was unproductive, they feel shocked that everyone is focused on this instead of this and angry that Kate isn't being included in the conversation when it's her that's the real victim".

Royal reporters rarely give blow by blow accounts from the source what happened, especially as a follow up to a blood bath, revenge filled interview that they weren't given the opportunity to respond to beforehand "no we reached out for comment about the race allegation" from Oprah. It's more "they talked for two hours" rather than the contents of the conversation. Nor do they have other friends and supporters going on TV threatening that Charles/William are going to release documents that might make the Sussexes look bad.
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  #977  
Old 04-20-2021, 08:31 AM
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But no member of the family has called up Camilla Tominey, Rebecca English, Victoria Arbiter, Richard Kay, Roya Nikkah etc and allowed them to say directly "I spoke to them yester the conversation was unproductive, they feel shocked that everyone is focused on this instead of this and angry that Kate isn't being included in the conversation when it's her that's the real victim".
I mean...to be honest we don't know they haven't. They wouldn't be dumb enough to ever directly quote them anyways. They all know the game.
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  #978  
Old 04-20-2021, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by RandyDrx View Post
I think the BRF should just completely cut off H&M, rather than walking on eggshells around them. They did it to E&W, they certainly can do it to H&M.
Iím sorry, but...no. Much as I deplore what Harry and Meghan have done, they are not the Windsors. Edward appeared to be a Nazi sympathizer (even if maybe he wasnít, his appearance with Hitler was ugly), and he was a giant pain in the behind to his brother. In fact, Edward was jealous if his brother and tried to run a shadow kingship while in exile.

Charles is hurting and angry from what Harry did, but he loves his son deeply - why would you want him to cut H off ? Heíd destroy his relationship with H and his grandchildren forever. William loves his brother, angry as he is. A nuclear option is no option.
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  #979  
Old 04-20-2021, 08:37 AM
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  #980  
Old 04-20-2021, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by PetticoatLane View Post
I'm sorry but thinking that the RF can stop 'leaks' is completely ludicrous and utterly unrealistic. How do they do it? How would this 'professional formal inquiry' figure out which of the staff members (of which there are hundreds across the households) are responsible for the 'leaks'? Should they all be hooked up to lie detector tests? Should they be put under interrogation? Or should the RF simply do a 'night of the long knives' and purge them all, the innocent included? The scandal which would follow, not to mention the employment tribunals and the inevitable incredibly costly compensation would make the Sussex drama look like child's play in comparison.

People who work for the royals have always and will always speak to journalists off the record. Some people who work in politics, business, entertainment, sport etc. do as well. Without leaks and insiders speaking to journalists off the record we wouldn't have a free press holding the powerful to account that would be worth the name. These off the record leaks to reputable journalists appear to be the only way the victims of Meghan's bullying feel able to set the record straight and affect change in how such things are handled internally.

The RF have had to come to painfully accept that there's likely almost nothing they can do about it apart from try to keep their most personal information to family or people they really, really trust. Even then it doesn't always work.

Harry and Meghan clearly couldn't accept that and Meghan didn't have the mental resilience to get through it. There's no shame in that. But equally, you cannot hold the BRF responsible for being unable to prevent leaks which are inevitable no matter what they do.

What Charles and William have never done, however, is massively invade Harry and Meghan's privacy by giving on the record TV interviews to the most famous interviewer in the world for hundreds of millions of people to see. Utterly inexcusable.

Well said!!! I don’t wish to re-litigate Megxit and Oprah, but I couldn’t agree more.

On a positive note, it appears that Harry may be staying for HM’s birthday (though admittedly, I keep reading different things):


Quote:
Harry flew to the UK on an “open-ended ticket” on April 11 and isolated at Frogmore Cottage before attending his grandfather’s funeral. He remains in the country ahead of the Queen’s 95th birthday tomorrow and is believed to want to stay for the occasion.

However, he will return to the home he shares with Meghan and son Archie in California as soon as his heavily pregnant wife needs him, a source close to the couple has said.



https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/b...t-b930653.html
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