The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 4: April-June 2021

[Archduchess Zelia]

Those types of pictures always make me super uncomfortable but gosh, Archie has gotten so big! Even just from the glimpse of him they showed in the Oprah interview. (So has Meghan ). And what a sweetheart he is. Looks to be a good mix of both his parents.

 

[ACO]

You don't have to read anything to be aware of it. I have no doubt her staff constantly came to her especially in regards to her estranged family who were all over the media. Then her friends were obviously asking her about stories.

And then just in general when you are a big story it will be heard. I don't follow certain celebs and still manage to hear about their drama from time to time because its everywhere. You don't think the royals aren't aware of stories about them even if they don't personally read the articles themselves?

 

[Queen Ester]

They called the BRF’s bluff because they thought they were more important than anyone, excepting HM. Guess what? The BRF didn’t fold.

As Kenny Rogers sang in The Gambler...H and M could have used this advice, not that they would have listened. They counted their money while they were still at the table...

Great song, have been listening to it all evening, thank you for reminding me

 

[TLLK]

Wow...she's pretty far along now. And Archie is so big now, I am kind of surprised to see Meghan carry him as pregnant as she is.

Archie is definitely a good sized boy for his age. I expect that he'll be quite tall someday like his father and maternal grandfather.

I expect that in few weeks, she might find it difficult to carry him.

 

[ACO]

Lots of tall genes on both sides for Archie. I am sure he will be tall. He is already quite long for an almost 2 year old. I definitely think baby girl will be here by June.

 

[Leopoldine]

I have a bit of experience with intrusive and careless press. When I was a teen, my mom was murdered. (Killer is still out there.) The NY Daily News published a photo of me saying it was my mother. They also got my father's name wrong, and used very tricky wide angle photography to make our house look huge. The Daily News also didn't deny they were police officers to get info from our neighbors. the day of my mother's funeral, a fat guy from CBS was on the sidewalk yelling at anyone entering or leaving the house.

This is probably .5% of what Meghan is dealing with.

So I have some empathy here.

 

[Osipi]

That must have been so traumatic. The loss of your mother suddenly was not helped by a gawking public and press at all. I'm so sorry to hear that you had to go through all that.

I also feel sympathy (not empathy because I've never experienced what she has) for what Meghan had to endure from the press but I would have hoped that once she moved away from the UK and the royal limelight, that she could put it all behind her and just move on with life. It's not easy to do, I know, but to me, dredging it all up again on international TV expressing how she felt actually gave those that printed this kind of crapola fuel for their fire.

 

[Fem]

If the lines of communication was closed there was no way Charles could listen or hear the couple's possible solution. There are multiple sides to a story. Unfortunately all we have are Harry's and Meghan's and judgements are being made based on what they said in the interview.

The opposite Kensington Palace shot down and issued statements refuting hurtful stories in the press about the Cambridges. Meghan wasn't given the same treatment- instead the hurtful stories like her making Kate cry were allowed to perpetuate in the press.

You know, for the first time I agree with you 100%. We know only one side of the story here, Meghan and Harry's (though mostly Meghan's). And when they did the interview, they knew completely well that the other side will not respond. They attacked people who can't fight back, who can't say anything in their defence. How compassionate of them.

KP also did not shot down or issued any statements regarding Meghan claiming it was Catherine who made her cry. They could have refused it, explained it, but they were silent... One wonders why, maybe because they simply do not comment on silly rumors

If they were not willing to answer phone calls- what were the chances of getting them to sit down and meet with the couple?

There comes a time when everybody needs to cool down for a couple of days. Prince of Wales is unfortunately quite an indulgent father, so I would risk a statement that he probably was answering those calls way too long.

The Sussexes were presented with the way they can reach a solution with the BRF. They didn't like it, done it their way and now can't deal with a blowback from that, though every decision was their and theirs alone.

I don't think it was a co-incidence that this photo was released just as Louis's photos for his birthday tomorrow were released, along with news that Harry is attending lunch meetings. In my opinion of course but there's a pattern here.

Blackgrid is known as an agency that distributes staged pics for celebrities (think Taylor Swift).

I'm waiting for a mayor announcement from the Sussexes on the 29th. Or a picture. We'll certainly get something and I'll have my popcorn ready.

A couple of times can be a bad timing, a coincidence. With the Sussexes, it's clearly a pattern by now.

 

[Betsypaige]

Or things that might be misunderstood, or might be misquoted later. I am all for written communication when there is any controversy or any likely misunderstanding. If it is in writing there can be no doubt about what was said, and if clarification is necessary there is a transcript of the words that need to be clarified.

Exactly....honestly, it sounds like nothing Charles does will be good enough for Harry unless he gives him exactly what he wants

Great song, have been listening to it all evening, thank you for reminding me

You’re welcome - and it’s one of my all-time favorites also!

 

[Queen Ester]

I expect they want the titles because it’s very prestigious for them to have; advertising themselves as Harry and Meghan Mountbatten- Windsor won’t attract headlines. Besides, that wasn’t my point - my point was that M is ruthless when it comes to her relationships.

Well then, as the poster upthread had said, Big Mistake, Huge

 

[Eskimo]

I thought the entire point of holding on to the titles, is that Meghan and Harry do in fact need the Royal Family in their future pursuits

That’s what they thought. They bought into the hype and thought that people were willing to throw millions of dollars at them because they were Harry and Meghan. They’re finding out that with them being on the outs with the RF, these people are no longer as interested. Thus, IMO, the leaks about how they’re still on great terms with TQ.

 

[BriarRose]

Cute photo of Archie, but I'd like to add that it is illegal to photograph the children of celebrities/ public figures in California without consent. I wouldn't blame Archie's parent if they pursue legal action again. I doubt that his parent(s) gave permission for him to be photographed.
https://www.rcfp.org/law-criminalizing-photography-celebrities-children-passed-california/

If the photographers did not stalk or harass Archie, and it was taken in a public place, or with a parent's permission, no law was broken. "Harassment, as outlined in the bill, means willful conduct that "seriously alarms, annoys, torments or terrorizes" the child." (from the link).

Also, the distribution of the photographs themselves is not illegal. From the link: "The bill also states that distribution of a child's image does not violate the law, but rather it is the act of creating it." (However, the U.K. does have it's own rules about publishing photos of minors.)

This is why you still see plenty of celebrity children's photographs in People magazine taken on the beach in Malibu or walking in Brentwood. The photos were taken in public, and the photographers did not stalk or harass the children.

There was a push to prohibit the photographing of minors in public places in committee, but it never made it to the Governor's desk (it's dicey under current Constitutional law). Jennifer Garner spent years lobbying for more protection, and her kids are still constantly papped.

The U.S. is not a great place for children's privacy.

(Also, although Harry and Meghan are always able to sue someone for harassment/stalking, the law cited is criminal law, not civil law. A D.A. would need to bring charges.)

 

[Eskimo]

I’d forgotten about this in CA! A good law - I remember Jennifer Garner supporting this bill. I absolutely agree that this photographer should not have taken this photo.

Blackgrid has been around for a while, so I’d think they know about this law

 

[TLLK]

If the photographers did not stalk or harass Archie, and it was taken in a public place, or with a parent's permission, no law was broken. "Harassment, as outlined in the bill, means willful conduct that "seriously alarms, annoys, torments or terrorizes" the child." (from the link).

Also, the distribution of the photographs themselves is not illegal. From the link: "The bill also states that distribution of a child's image does not violate the law, but rather it is the act of creating it." (However, the U.K. does have it's own rules about publishing photos of minors.)

This is why you still see plenty of celebrity children's photographs in People magazine taken on the beach in Malibu or walking in Brentwood. The photos were taken in public, and the photographers did not stalk or harass the children.

There was a push to prohibit the photographing of minors in public places in committee, but it never made it to the Governor's desk (it's dicey under current Constitutional law). Jennifer Garner spent years lobbying for more protection, and her kids are still constantly papped.

The U.S. is not a great place for children's privacy.

(Also, although Harry and Meghan are always able to sue someone for harassment/stalking, the law cited is criminal law, not civil law. A D.A. would need to bring charges.)

Thank you Briar Rose.

 

[Leopoldine]

That must have been so traumatic. The loss of your mother suddenly was not helped by a gawking public and press at all. I'm so sorry to hear that you had to go through all that.

I also feel sympathy (not empathy because I've never experienced what she has) for what Meghan had to endure from the press but I would have hoped that once she moved away from the UK and the royal limelight, that she could put it all behind her and just move on with life. It's not easy to do, I know, but to me, dredging it all up again on international TV expressing how she felt actually gave those that printed this kind of crapola fuel for their fire.

Thanks for the kind words. It was a long time ago.

The Sussex couple's decisions in all things publicity-related seem counter-intuitive to good mental health.

 

[Hallo girl]

I think the opposite. Closing off communication by stop taking Harry's call closed off any possibility of coming up with a solution that benefited all. However, I would be lying if I said I was surprised by the PoW's actions.

That is an interesting point , could I ask why you are not surprised by the actions of the POW's.

 

[ladongas]

...

Your last point is an excellent one, but even so, Harry ought to consider that his father won’t be around forever. I’d have thought Charles getting COVID would have scared him some. ]He shouldn’t wait until his kids are older to reach out; he should have taken the chance his father offered before rushing home to CA.

I thought Charles rushed off to Wales while Harry was still in Windsor.

 

[Queen Claude]

Meghan's feelings should have been just as valid as anyone else. The story did not die down, in fact it kept on gaining legs and was constantly being rehashed over and over in the press. KP could have killed the story with just 1 line by saying it was not true.

My recollection was that when the story came out that it was a big story because stories where women are pitted against each other tend to get a lot of attention by default but I don't recall it gaining legs, unless you consider that a few months later another story came out claiming to know what exactly was the disagreement between Kate and Meghan. What I also recall was that Meghan was hardly villainized when the story broke, most people attributed Kate's emotions to Kate being post-partum. In fact one of the "insiders" who blabbed about the incident mentions Kate "feeling quite emotional".

Regarding should the palace have stated that it was not true. I don't think that they should have due to there being enough "there there" regarding the story. I am not convinced that the "true" story is that the opposite happened to what was reported and that Kate made Meghan cry. I tend to believe that the story was more incomplete and that both women shed tears, likely after they parted company. So again the palace should not have denied the story because the story was not untrue, secondly, Meghan was not presented as the bad guy in the story, and thirdly the overall reaction to this particular story did not seems all that unfavorable towards Meghan.

Furthermore, I think that the way that the BRF chose to address the matter was to have the Cambridges and the Sussexes walk together when they went to the Christmas service at Sandringham, and then leak a story about how the couples, and particularly the women, spent time together and enjoyed themselves.

 

[muriel]

While I have huge sympathy for anyone who is having significant mental health problems and actually feeling suicidal, I just cannot accept that Meghan was unable to receive appropriate help.
She is an independently wealthy woman, and her her husband is a very wealthy 36 year old man. They have shown that they can do or say more or less as they please.
If Meghan has been in such difficulty, and in need of help so urgently, why did her husband not arrange this for her? They lived in London, with a huge amount of professional support on their doorstep. I simply cannot accept this grievance.

I agree that Meghan could have sought help with her menatl health if she really needed it. Harry has publicly admitted to seeking help (on William's advice) in the past, it is well documented that Diana sought help with her mental health, and Harry (along with William and Catherine) has ben campaigning to raise awarenss of mental health issues. IMO, tt just seems disingenous to suggest that "The Firm" would have prevented her from seeking help.

 

[Denville]

The media in the US are like the media everywhere. They want to report the juiciest story so that people will buy their magazine or newspaper. I agree that our media doesn’t know nor probably care about royal rules. Oprah had a really good reputation; in my book she lost tons of credibility. It wasn’t a real interview at all. And even though she is an entertainer, she has done far better interviews.



But Meghan said she wanted to hit the ground running, didn’t she?

yes she did, but there were stories during the year or 2 of their working years of marriage about them possibly going to live in Africa.. and one I think that said that Charles had offered them an estate.. which seems to indicate that while overtly they were doing royal duties and Meghan was keen on the work, that behind the scenes there were perhaps some problems and the RF was trying to find some way of giving them some time off...
So it seems to me that there were straws in the wind that indicated that Meg and harry were complianing and saying they weren't happy with being busy with the Royal work, and that the RF WERE Taking note of their problems and trying to find some way of giving them a break....

 

[Roslyn]

I agree that Meghan could have sought help with her menatl health if she really needed it. Harry has publicly admitted to seeking help (on William's advice) in the past, it is well documented that Diana sought help with her mental health, and Harry (along with William and Catherine) has ben campaigning to raise awarenss of mental health issues. IMO, tt just seems disingenous to suggest that "The Firm" would have prevented her from seeking help.

It doesn't make sense, does it? So much of what was said in and around the time of that Oprah interview doesn't make sense, and I think that is what is making a lot of us doubt the motives and veracity of the Sussexes. It is certainly made me think less of them both because it doesn't make sense. Sure, she might have suffered slights and difficulties and even racism at the hands of those "grey men" and even the RF. And if she did she has every right to take them on, but there are effective and appropriate ways to do that and she didn't pursue those ways, she took a strange course. Why on earth would the Queen's grand-daughter-in-law have consulted the staff HR office instead of asking her husband to help her make arrangements to see a psychologist or doctor? She is not a staff member, she is family, and her husband and his brother and sister-in-law have been very vocal about mental health and their need to get help. The story about this issue alone totally bewilders me.

 

[Denville]

It doesn't make sense, does it? So much of what was said in and around the time of that Oprah interview doesn't make sense, a Why on earth would the Queen's grand-daughter-in-law have consulted the staff HR office instead of asking her husband to help her make arrangements to see a psychologist or doctor? She is not a staff member, she is family, and her husband and his brother and sister-in-law have been very vocal about mental health and their need to get help. The story about this issue alone totally bewilders me.

Why didn't she simply consult her doctor? She must have been seeing a doctor and probably nurses/midwives who were looking after her pregnancy, and the doctor could refer her to a psychiatrist .. Why didn't Harry consult whoever worked with him, when he had mental health difficulties and ask that professional to see Meghan?

That’s what they thought. They bought into the hype and thought that people were willing to throw millions of dollars at them because they were Harry and Meghan. They’re finding out that with them being on the outs with the RF, these people are no longer as interested. Thus, IMO, the leaks about how they’re still on great terms with TQ.

Yes but it is beginning to make them look odd and discordant in what they say. Jus t before the Oprah thing Harry was talking to Corden about how he and Meg were talking to the queen and Philip and how the queen sent Archie a present and it was all as if they were the best of friends. Then they went on Orpah and gave a very different picture that there were tensions and arguments and racisit remarks, and there were difficulties in communicating with his father and the Queen. So which is true?

 

[Alison H]

William spent some time working as an air ambulance pilot and only doing royal duties part-time ... but that only pays an ordinary sort of salary - I forget whether William actually took the money or whether he donated it to charity - rather than the sort of "professional income" that seems to have been Harry and Meghan's main motivation.

 

[Hallo girl]

William spent some time working as an air ambulance pilot and only doing royal duties part-time ... but that only pays an ordinary sort of salary - I forget whether William actually took the money or whether he donated it to charity - rather than the sort of "professional income" that seems to have been Harry and Meghan's main motivation.

That is correct and received criticism for not doing enough royal duties.
The Queen had given them settling in time, both as newly weds and then parents, I find it hard to believe the Queen would not have allowed Harry and Meghan a similar option.

 

[Nice Nofret]

.. well it was Meghan who announced in their engagment interview, that they wanted to 'hit the ground running' after the marriage....



which i thought instantly, was a big mistake and very much 'american- california - over-confident way of doing things - as britts and the royal family tend to be very much 'understated' ...

 

[Claire]

The Queen did offer it to them - they rejected it. And they were also offered the ability to go live in a Commonwealth country - they rejected these offers. It wasn't to their liking - Meghan wanted to jump right in and well, we really don't know.

I have wondered if the security and financial arrangements made on these offers were not what Meghan and Harry look at and were expecting for the move to LA.

 

[Denville]

The Queen did offer it to them - they rejected it. And they were also offered the ability to go live in a Commonwealth country - they rejected these offers. It wasn't to their liking - Meghan wanted to jump right in and well, we really don't know.

I have wondered if the security and financial arrangements made on these offers were not what Meghan and Harry look at and were expecting for the move to LA.

I think that they simply wanted to be free of too many obligations, to be able to earn more money than an allowance from Charles, and to be free to live in the US. other offers like Africa or an estate In the UK were not what they had in mind.. which was to have the best of both worlds. They wanted to do royal duties but they also wanted to be able to talk about politics, and to shake off any shackles. They needed to do some royal duties to keep up the royal connextion.. which they could then use for their brand.. and I suppose they thought that if they stayed as working royals the tax payer would still pay security costs.. (thoguh they seem to have thought that they'd always have security paid for).

 

[Heavs]

It doesn't make sense, does it? So much of what was said in and around the time of that Oprah interview doesn't make sense, and I think that is what is making a lot of us doubt the motives and veracity of the Sussexes. It is certainly made me think less of them both because it doesn't make sense. Sure, she might have suffered slights and difficulties and even racism at the hands of those "grey men" and even the RF. And if she did she has every right to take them on, but there are effective and appropriate ways to do that and she didn't pursue those ways, she took a strange course. Why on earth would the Queen's grand-daughter-in-law have consulted the staff HR office instead of asking her husband to help her make arrangements to see a psychologist or doctor? She is not a staff member, she is family, and her husband and his brother and sister-in-law have been very vocal about mental health and their need to get help. The story about this issue alone totally bewilders me.

It's probably because she does have emails to HR about her struggling and HR saying they couldn't help (because she's not an employee) can "prove" that, like she had an email that proves she brought up the crying thing in January 2020 (but not the response). Of course the BRF can't release private emails to her suggesting that she talk to her OBGYN for a recommendation or that she can get therapy every day at home rather than a mental health facility in the US for example.

Along with Harry, Margaret, Diana, Charles (possibly even HM) and others in the BRF getting therapy, her OBGYN being trained to spot depression in pregnant mothers and and apparently not speaking to her GP, her mother has worked in the mental health field. Even if she doesn't know the UK system she would be able to offer advice on what to do rather than contact HR and nothing else.

Yes but it is beginning to make them look odd and discordant in what they say. Jus t before the Oprah thing Harry was talking to Corden about how he and Meg were talking to the queen and Philip and how the queen sent Archie a present and it was all as if they were the best of friends. Then they went on Orpah and gave a very different picture that there were tensions and arguments and racisit remarks, and there were difficulties in communicating with his father and the Queen. So which is true?

It's entirely silly but they're trying to go the "William/Charles =Bad" "Queen=Good" route because they need the glamour and connection of/to the BRF to succeed. That's why they want to keep using their titles, that's a big reason they want two children who are going to grow up out of the "toxic, trapped" environment in progressive California to be HRH Prince/ss.

As if HM wasn't the still active and working head of everything that they trashed but some sweet lady who's completely separate from it and just happens to be the most famous woman in the world who everyone has some respect/affection for. And now suddenly Meghan and Philip were very, very close as well.

Some of the Sussex Squad are confused as anything about the glowing Meghan and Philip stories given his reputation and their previous "tear it down" attitude. So the dissonance is striking and noticed.

IIRC William donated his Air Ambulance salary to charity. It seems from all sides that there were options for Harry and Meghan to take it slowly although the "she'll have to work" comment seems to have been taken badly by Harry. But once they were in and working they couldn't go and make money off their "brand" part time. If they wanted to retrain as doctors or teachers and do the occasional royal duty or go and be organic, vegan farmers in the Cotswolds that would be a different story.

 

[Denville]

I



the "she'll have to work" comment seems to have been taken badly by Harry. But once they were in and working they couldn't go and make money off their "brand" part time. If they wanted to retrain as doctors or teachers and do the occasional royal duty or go and be organic, vegan farmers in the Cotswolds that would be a different story.

yes that's another thing. You would think that Meghan would be glad to be able to go on working, but Harry seems to have taken it as an insult. It seems like there was no context given for that remark, but again it sounds odd to be told something like "ther'es no money to keep her, she'll have to work". Obviously as H's wife, there would be funds available for her upkeep, and she would harldy have to go out working to put food on the table. But If they had said that if she wanted to go on acting, you'd think that Meg would have been pleased to be able to keep up her career and not have to cut ribbons.

 

[camelot23ca]

yes she did, but there were stories during the year or 2 of their working years of marriage about them possibly going to live in Africa.. and one I think that said that Charles had offered them an estate.. which seems to indicate that while overtly they were doing royal duties and Meghan was keen on the work, that behind the scenes there were perhaps some problems and the RF was trying to find some way of giving them some time off...
So it seems to me that there were straws in the wind that indicated that Meg and harry were complianing and saying they weren't happy with being busy with the Royal work, and that the RF WERE Taking note of their problems and trying to find some way of giving them a break....

While the “recollections may vary” part of the RF’s statement was the part that received the most attention, I thought the other part, which said something like, “we were sorry to hear just how unhappy The Sussexes were” was more subtle, but more revealing. At first glance it seems like sympathy, but it also clarified that the BRF didn’t see the tale of endless woe/mental breakdown Harry and Meghan described, either because Harry and Meghan didn’t show them or, just possibly, because there was no actual mental health crisis at the time.

I’d be interested in knowing when Meghan and Harry heard about the possibility of the bullying accusations, and BP’s response to them, being investigated. I wonder if there was an element of getting their cover story in place well before any damaging findings are released, (“she’s not a hypocritical bully, she’s a mentally ill victim of racism”).