The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #821  
Old 04-18-2021, 06:09 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 2,229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I am sure that its more to show some kind of decent unity in grief. Im sure teh queen doesn't want there to be any sign of coolness in public between her grandson and his brohter or the other members of the family...
I´m not sure if all members of this family care about what The Queen or the late Duke wanted...! Otherwise things like leaving roles as senior Royals without consulting her and other gaffes in the past would never had happened. At some point I wondered how much influence or authority The Queen had at all in this family..?! I think the idea of "HM is not amused" everybody obeying the sovereign is a myth these days...
__________________

  #822  
Old 04-18-2021, 06:17 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 8,457
Quote:
Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
I´m not sure if all members of this family care about what The Queen or the late Duke wanted...! Otherwise things like leaving roles as senior Royals without consulting her and other gaffes in the past would never had happened. At some point I wondered how much influence or authority The Queen had at all in this family..?! I think the idea of "HM is not amused" everybody obeying the sovereign is a myth these days...
Im sure they do, even Harry does. He is a mixed up young man, certainly but I doubt he is so heartless as to not care how his grandmother is feeling right now, having just lost her husband. He's certainly selfish and I think he and Meg were both so determined to leave that nothing would stop them... but that's their right to leave the RF if they want to.. albeit they did it badly.
but even last month when he was I think at his worst, he was a bit wary about attacking his queen and Philip so he did albeit belatedly, remember to say that it wasn't them who made the "racist remarks"...
Possibly it was due to selfish reasons that he did that, ie he was afraid that he' might look bad, even to the American public who didn't get the nuances, if he made it seem like his grandfather who was at hte end of his life, was saying racist things... or perhaps he was afraid that Granny who HAS tried to be fair to him, might turn against him.. but even if only for selfish reasons I think he would behave properly at the funeral and be seen talking to his brother...
__________________

  #823  
Old 04-18-2021, 06:25 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 2,229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Im sure they do, even Harry does. He is a mixed up young man, certainly but I doubt he is so heartless as to not care how his grandmother is feeling right now, having just lost her husband. He's certainly selfish and I think he and Meg were both so determined to leave that nothing would stop them... but that's their right to leave the RF if they want to.. albeit they did it badly.
but even last month when he was I think at his worst, he was a bit wary about attacking his queen and Philip so he did albeit belatedly, remember to say that it wasn't them who made the "racist remarks"...
Possibly it was due to selfish reasons that he did that, ie he was afraid that he' might look bad, even to the American public who didn't get the nuances, if he made it seem like his grandfather who was at hte end of his life, was saying racist things... or perhaps he was afraid that Granny who HAS tried to be fair to him, might turn against him.. but even if only for selfish reasons I think he would behave properly at the funeral and be seen talking to his brother...
But what kind of respect is this? It occurs to me as all fake. I´m not talking about not caring about someone´s feelings, but about respecting authority, someone, an institution standing above you. Respecting someone, especially your monarch or your "boss" is something you DO, not the image you want to create about it.
This couple´s behaviour, but also of some other family members, would have been unthinkable in the old days!
  #824  
Old 04-18-2021, 06:29 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Woodbury, United States
Posts: 2,433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
well they may talk, and be polite to each other, but its only a month since the interview that showed how alienated Harry is from his family. I hope that yes they could put aside their differences in public for the sake of Philp and the queen at such an emotional time.. but that does not mean that the relationship is likely to be restored to what it was. Too much has happened and Harry is now abroad permanently.. and has a new life. If he continues to engage with the American media in the way he did in March, relations will never be the same again.. if he does go on with his new life but does not any longer do interviews on private matters, things will probably slowly improve.
But certainly both of them were wrong last year to show their annoyance with each other, and Im sure that it was decided that at THIS occasion, they must be seen being polite....
I agree with this....but of course I never thought that everything would be hunky dory right away; I always thought that the best thing that could emerge from these days is that the family would lay the foundations for better days ahead. But, the “family” isn’t a monolith, it’s made up of different people, who have different relationships with Harry. I think W and H’s will take a long time to heal properly as there’s a lot of anger and mistrust there, and from W’s POV, Kate being dragged into it is inexcusable. Still, that doesn’t mean any improvements aren’t welcome, however small.

Charles and Harry’s relationship is at least as important to me, and I think that has a better chance of real improvement in the shorter term, even though I expect Charles will always be hurt. I hope the reports of his wanting to take Harry on a walk to show the tributes to Philip are true, and if so, that H takes that opportunity. He will regret it forever if he didn’t and something happened to his father.
  #825  
Old 04-18-2021, 06:32 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 8,457
Quote:
Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
But what kind of respect is this? It occurs all fake to me. Respecting someone, especially your monarch or your "boss" is something you DO, not the image you want to create about it.
This couple´s behaviour, but also of some other family members, would have been unthinkable in the old days!
I didnt say it was respect but I presume that he has enough affection for his grandmother to not want to upset her, at least when hei's in a calm mood.. so if he was told to make sure he was polite in public to his brother because it would upset his grandmother on the day of the funeral - he's not so monstrously selfish that he'd do the opposite. He only had to be seen saying a few wrods to William and I imaigine they could manage that.

Possibly it IS all done through selfishness, I dont know. I feel that Harry has shown his hidden depths in the past year and shown that he has a very dark angry bitter side to him... but possibly he has been wary that too much aggression to his queen isn't going to look good, or that if he upsets or angers her, she may be less likely to take his side or be sympathetic to him in any future discussions in the RF. Clearly he annoyed Charles very much, so he may well just feel that if he annoys Granny as well, he'll have no sympathisers left at all....
And of course there are things that would have been unthinkable in earlier years. Things change. It was considered unthinkable that Charles should get a divorce, no matter how unhappy his marriage was, but that convention changed. It would have been unthinkable years ago for Will to live with Kate before they got married, but it seems to me a good thing that that particular convention changed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I agree with this....but of course I never thought that everything would be hunky dory right away; I always thought that the best thing that could emerge from these days is that the family would lay the foundations for better days ahead. But, the “family” isn’t a monolith, it’s made up of different people, who have different relationships with Harry. I think W and H’s will take a long time to heal properly as there’s a lot of anger and mistrust there, and from W’s POV, Kate being dragged into it is inexcusable. Still, that doesn’t mean any improvements aren’t welcome, however small.

Charles and Harry’s relationship is at least as important to me, and I think that has a better chance of real improvement in the shorter term, even though I expect Charles will always be hurt. I hope the reports of his wanting to take Harry on a walk to show the tributes to Philip are true, and if so, that H takes that opportunity. He will regret it forever if he didn’t and something happened to his father.
I don't rate Harry's self control very high. I think that he may be feeling a bit guilty about his outbursts in March now.. but its only a month ago.. and I doubt if the rest of the RF are likely to do more than be polite to him for some time to come. And I fear that If Harry is crossed he gets angry and loses any common sense he had.. Charles was an indulgent father.. but clearly Harry was so demanding last year that even he lost patience and Harry responded with that nasty interview. It probalby as well that he is living so far away, so that he wont be rubbing up against hs father...
  #826  
Old 04-18-2021, 06:52 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 2,229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I didnt say it was respect but I presume that he has enough affection for his grandmother to not want to upset her, at least when hei's in a calm mood.. so if he was told to make sure he was polite in public to his brother because it would upset his grandmother on the day of the funeral - he's not so monstrously selfish that he'd do the opposite. He only had to be seen saying a few wrods to William and I imaigine they could manage that.

Possibly it IS all done through selfishness, I dont know. I feel that Harry has shown his hidden depths in the past year and shown that he has a very dark angry bitter side to him... but possibly he has been wary that too much aggression to his queen isn't going to look good, or that if he upsets or angers her, she may be less likely to take his side or be sympathetic to him in any future discussions in the RF. Clearly he annoyed Charles very much, so he may well just feel that if he annoys Granny as well, he'll have no sympathisers left at all....
And of course there are things that would have been unthinkable in earlier years. Things change. It was considered unthinkable that Charles should get a divorce, no matter how unhappy his marriage was, but that convention changed. It would have been unthinkable years ago for Will to live with Kate before they got married, but it seems to me a good thing that that particular convention changed.
Well, I was talking about RESPECT in my 1st post, not personal "feelings". Of course I realise that conventions change, some for the worse IMO, but often, also by the tabloid press, there is an image created that "the sovereign" is a person, members of the RF listen to and is respected as some sort of authority. I was just doubting that this was still the case.
  #827  
Old 04-18-2021, 07:02 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
I had the same reaction as Osipi though, and I would suspect most observers of the funeral on TV and those who read articles about the funeral felt the same. For me it was ‘Oh, Meghan sent a funeral wreath with some flowers that symbolised Prince Philip’s past. That’s nice.’

Whether Meghan sent a wreath is not important in the context of the day IMO, and here in Australia on Sunday morning no-one I know is talking about it though many other parts of the funeral have been. In my view these sort of details tend to be discussed on forums such as this but not by the general public at large.
Im in aus and it (the wreath) is all over the news, incl in some of the rolling coverage. I was a bit annoyed as i saw a headline mentioning meghan and i deliberately avoided the article but the same information(i presume) was then in the main article re the funeral.

However it got out it does seem odd that there were soo many details. It is possible it was m and hs us pr person trying to be helpful but it is a shame.
  #828  
Old 04-18-2021, 07:05 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 8,457
Quote:
Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
Well, I was talking about RESPECT in my 1st post, not personal "feelings". Of course I realise that conventions change, some for the worse IMO, but often, also by the tabloid press, there is an image created that "the sovereign" is a person, members of the RF listen to and is respected as some sort of authority. I was just doubting that this was still the case.
I would say Harry's feelings are mixed. He probably was brought up with "this is your queen and your granny" and has some respect for her.. but there could be a lot of selfish "I'd better propitiate Granny because Dads angry wth me."
And I think that the members of the RF do respect the queen but she IS very elderly and has led a sheltered life in many ways so they may not always feel that she gets things right.. and they are adults who have their own opinions and beliefs. I think its possible to respect her and see her good points yet still disagree at times and feel that one has to go one's own way, in some tings/ I think that Charles knew the queen didn't want him to divorce, and he DID try for several years to keep up a façade of a marriage in the old fashioned way.. but he reached a point where he felt that he could not go on with a broken unhappy marriage and that while he wanted to try and obey the queen, his affiarr had become public, so had Di's affairs and he wanted out of the marriage. I think that the Queen came to agree with him on that...and realised that while a divorce was unprecedented, it was the only way forward.
  #829  
Old 04-18-2021, 07:17 AM
Royalist.in.NC's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Asheville, United States
Posts: 133
Very good points! Yeah, I can’t see many men being aware of all these details about the wreath.
  #830  
Old 04-18-2021, 08:06 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Scotland, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,049
this is just my opinion but I don't think other members of the family would become involved, it is between Charles William and Harry. Even if they are not happy with Harry they will just carry on, he is going back to America so no point in getting involved however annoyed they may be.

Where as he really does need to build bridges with his brother and father, there are young children in the family and it would be nice if there could be a relationship going forward.
  #831  
Old 04-18-2021, 08:12 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Nafplio, Greece
Posts: 707
Did Harry leave for LA or will he stay for his granny's birthday?
  #832  
Old 04-18-2021, 08:16 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Woodbury, United States
Posts: 2,433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
this is just my opinion but I don't think other members of the family would become involved, it is between Charles William and Harry. Even if they are not happy with Harry they will just carry on, he is going back to America so no point in getting involved however annoyed they may be.

Where as he really does need to build bridges with his brother and father, there are young children in the family and it would be nice if there could be a relationship going forward.
I think that’s true. It’s not insignificant if the family as a whole are angry with Harry, but they would be so on behalf of HM and the BRF overall. It’s Charles and William whose personal relationships with Harry matter.
  #833  
Old 04-18-2021, 08:55 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 8,457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I think that’s true. It’s not insignificant if the family as a whole are angry with Harry, but they would be so on behalf of HM and the BRF overall. It’s Charles and William whose personal relationships with Harry matter.
I'd say that most of the RF are annoyed iwht him, because of the things he siad which due to their being so vague, could apply ot almost anyone in the RF.. so he was leaving them all open to criticism...
  #834  
Old 04-18-2021, 09:09 AM
Alisa's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royalist.in.NC View Post
Very good points! Yeah, I can’t see many men being aware of all these details about the wreath.
Not sure if the details were revealed. It doesn't take a genius to identify flowers. If they ID the right flowers. It wouldn't be the first time a big hoopla was made over information that turned out to be false!
__________________
Those who plot the destruction of others often perish in the attempt. ---Phaedrus
  #835  
Old 04-18-2021, 09:12 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 8,457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
Not sure if the details were revealed. It doesn't take a genius to identify flowers. If they ID the right flowers. It wouldn't be the first time a big hoopla was made over information that turned out to be false!
why would anyone care to talk about what flowers there were or where they came from... there were lots of wreath and BP didn't say what flowers were involved or who arranged them. They were just private....
  #836  
Old 04-18-2021, 09:20 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Torrance, United States
Posts: 5,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
why would anyone care to talk about what flowers there were or where they came from... there were lots of wreath and BP didn't say what flowers were involved or who arranged them. They were just private....
Yes. It is a bit odd that there's only media coverage of one that was displayed in St. George's Chapel among the others from the family. As I recall that information was shared even before the service had begun.
  #837  
Old 04-18-2021, 09:55 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Scotland, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I'd say that most of the RF are annoyed iwht him, because of the things he siad which due to their being so vague, could apply ot almost anyone in the RF.. so he was leaving them all open to criticism...
You are right they probably all are annoyed with him, but I just wondered if they thought it worth causing a fuss at their fathers/ grandfathers funeral, he will be away soon anyway.

I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when Anne came face to face with him.
  #838  
Old 04-18-2021, 10:04 AM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Washington, United States
Posts: 1,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
You are right they probably all are annoyed with him, but I just wondered if they thought it worth causing a fuss at their fathers/ grandfathers funeral, he will be away soon anyway.

I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when Anne came face to face with him.
At another time their meeting would have been interesting, but she probably just ignored him and I doubt if he made any attempt to engage her.
  #839  
Old 04-18-2021, 10:12 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 8,457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
You are right they probably all are annoyed with him, but I just wondered if they thought it worth causing a fuss at their fathers/ grandfathers funeral, he will be away soon anyway.

I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when Anne came face to face with him.
No of course they wont make a fuss. They know the tabloids have been watching to see how Harry got on esp with William and they're used to keeping up a front in public.. and even if H is there for another few days I don't think they'll want to rehash things with him privately right now. They will be civil but wary....and I suspect they'll hope he goes away soon....
  #840  
Old 04-18-2021, 10:18 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by TLLK View Post
Yes. It is a bit odd that there's only media coverage of one that was displayed in St. George's Chapel among the others from the family. As I recall that information was shared even before the service had begun.
The media are reporting it as they were given the info by the Sussex PR team. If BP had released details of the other flowers and who gave them then they probably would have reported on those but the other details were kept private and personal. Of course the Sussexes in general get coverage because they get a lot of clicks from all sides, especially post Interview.

The wreath is lovely and meaningful but I'm sure they all were but we didn't read about Lady Louise for example choosing her grandfather's favourite flowers from her own garden or how she and her grandfather had the closest bond out of all her family and whatever else Gayle and Scobie talked about on CBS as well.
__________________

Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 8 (0 members and 8 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 3: March - April 2021 Jacknch Current Events Archive 2203 04-06-2021 12:08 PM




Popular Tags
#royalrelatives #royalgenes abu dhabi american american history ancestry baby names baptism british british royal family british royals brownbitcoinqueen camilla parker bowles carolin china chinese ming dynasty asia asian emperor royalty qing clarence house cpr customs dresses duke of sussex earl of snowdon edward vii family tree general news thread george vi gradenigo gustaf vi adolf hereditary grand duchess stéphanie history hochberg house of windsor hypothetical monarchs imperial household jacobite japan jewellery jewelry kensington palace king edward vii list of rulers luxembourg maxima meghan markle monarchy nepal nepalese royal family pless princess alexia (2005 -) princess chulabhorn princess chulabhorn walailak princess eugenie princess laurentien princess of orange princess ribha queen consort queen elizabeth ii queen victoria resusci anne royal jewels royalty of taiwan russian court dress spain sussex swedish queen thai royal family tradition unfinished portrait united states united states of america welsh wittelsbach


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:30 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises
×